Useful rape prevention tips.

lazygal

I came across these useful rape prevention tips on another forum.



1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.

2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.

3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to rape her.

4. If you are in an elevator and a woman gets in, don’t rape her.

5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is to not rape her.

6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars, or rape her.

7. Remember, people go to the laundry room to do their laundry. Do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.

8. Use the Buddy System! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from raping women, ask a trusted friend to accompany you at all times.

9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find that you are about to rape someone, blow the whistle until someone comes to stop you.

10. Don’t forget: Honesty is the best policy. When asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend that you are interested in her as a person; tell her straight up that you expect to be raping her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take it as a sign that you do not plan to rape her.

tigger123

??? ... Is this satire of some sort? Where did you see it OP?

Pokiedots

I love it, the only way rape can be prevented is for people not to rape! Simple! Its great to see the responsibility for rape being put firmly with rapists.

eviltwin

Who is that aimed at? I find it quite offensive, this idea that we have to tell men not to rape, fair enough talking about consent, sex with a drunk woman etc those areas where the perspective of both parties might be different but telling men 'if you see a woman whose car has broken down don't rape her' is sad. And I don't like sending out the message to women that any man who comes near you is possibly just out to sexually assault you.

cheesefiend

eviltwin wrote: »

Who is that aimed at? I find it quite offensive, this idea that we have to tell men not to rape, fair enough talking about consent, sex with a drunk woman etc those areas where the perspective of both parties might be different but telling men 'if you see a woman whose car has broken down don't rape her' is sad. And I don't like sending out the message to women that any man who comes near you is possibly just out to sexually assault you.

I think it's meant to be a joke. It's a satire of all of the "tips" women get to help them "avoid rape". I think the point is to put the blame back on the rapist, and I'm sure it's not a serious guide for men.

meeeeh

This thing is pathetic. The tit for tat on this matters really doesn't help.

I got into a discussion (cat fight) with quite a few male posters on another forum about what is rape, how serious it is and so on... My argument was completely lost because whenever I tried to make a point somebody quoted some similar nonsense to the one in the opening post. I'm hugely impressed with the way gay and lesbian groups managed to make fight for their rights very sympathetic, non confrontational and hopefully very effective. The stuff above just gives a chance to dismiss serious arguments with the statement that some crazy feminist has pms again.

cheesefiend

I'm nearly sure that those tips are kind of like an inside joke for women. I've heard and read all of those tips given to women - I shouldn't walk anywhere alone because I might get raped and then it's my fault because I didn't bring a minder with me. It's so exasperating and ridiculous, and I assume this was written out of the same exasperation I feel, it's ridiculing the victim blaming mentality, it's not actually saying "all men please stop raping"!

And anyone who quotes this, in all seriousness, in an argument to say feminists assume all men are potential rapists, is a feckin eejit who isn't worth having an argument with in the first place.

meeeeh

I don't find it particularly funny. I was also never advised not to go into elevator alone so I won't be raped, or not to go to laundry or into the car park... I always had very mixed group of friends and no one (men or women) would be let walk somewhere alone, especially when drunk.

It just comes across as complete overreaction.

eviltwin

I totally agree with Meeeeh. Its pretty obvious its tongue in cheek and I doubt many people would take it seriously and maybe if things were different we could all have a bit of a laugh over it but I don't think we've reached a point where we can do that yet. Men do feel at times they are all being lumped together under the rapist umbrella which can put them on the defensive. It doesn't help move things forward. It just creates a line between the sexes that we could do without.

ted1

lazygal wrote: »

I came across these useful rape prevention tips on another forum.



1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.

2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.

3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to rape her.

4. If you are in an elevator and a woman gets in, don’t rape her.

5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is to not rape her.

6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars, or rape her.

7. Remember, people go to the laundry room to do their laundry. Do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.

8. Use the Buddy System! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from raping women, ask a trusted friend to accompany you at all times.

9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find that you are about to rape someone, blow the whistle until someone comes to stop you.

10. Don’t forget: Honesty is the best policy. When asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend that you are interested in her as a person; tell her straight up that you expect to be raping her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take it as a sign that you do not plan to rape her.

Without putting on context where the site you got it from , your post is pointless an smacks of the sensational headlines that tabloids use to create stories out of nothing

meeeeh

It just comes across as complete overreaction in one area. Just to make it clear that time I did not have an argument for argument sake (for a change) but because I honestly believe that we have to change how rape victims are often dismissed. Because they are drunk, because they are in abusive relationship and afraid to say no, because they are men and they can't be raped by a woman... The list includes self evident arguments when and I think the debate about sexual violence should include much broader issues. As much as want to believe it to be different, I think those that need to be told that the rape of someone in parking lot, are lost cause. All we can do is try to change the societal perception of what is sexual violence (mostly against women) and how it should be dealt with. I just don't think that lists like that help.

Soft Falling Rain

Don't see the point other than being utterly condescending.

Jerrica

The thing is, the anti-rape message is most often sent to women instead of to men. Now we have "Anti Rape Pants", again, another product/ slogan/ soundabite aimed at the wrong gender. So yes, the OP's list is fairly (depending on your viewpoint) tongue-in-cheek and/ or aggressive and/ or insulting, but it's no more outlandish than the constant one-sidedness of the anti-rape advice doled out by the media.


edit: tbh, I'd find those pants more insulting to men than the OP's list, y'know, what with them being uncontrollable animals who can't keep their willies in line when they see a women out for a run...

yermandan

Jesus its gas how offended people are getting. The OPost is absolutely hilarious and puts an excellent point across in a humorous and intelligent way

eviltwin

Jerrica wrote: »

The thing is, the anti-rape message is most often sent to women instead of to men. .

Probably because most rapists aren't going to be put off by an ad campaign. However if you give women advice on the best way to protect themselves - and thats not saying its a woman's responsibility to not get raped btw - it might just help protect someone.

meeeeh

bluewolf wrote: »

Agreed. But a whiff of "guys, taking advantage isn't ok, for those of you who might think it is" is all "omg how dare you say all men are rapists".
It's ok to imply indirectly that all men are rapists and women were asking for it by saying if she walks alone somewhere at night she will get attacked and it's her fault, but other than that, no of course not

Completely ott but where from comes the idea that only women shouldn't walk home alone at night. I was in mixed group of friends and except waking couple of hundred meters in a well lit and safe village, nobody was left to walk alone. Men or women, we considered it a safety precaution and also common courtesy not to let anybody walk home alone, especially when drunk.

Jerrica

eviltwin wrote: »

However if you give women advice on the best way to protect themselves - and thats not saying its a woman's responsibility to not get raped btw - it might just help protect someone.

Nope. There is nothing that a woman does that makes it more likely that she will be raped. It doesn't matter where she goes, what she does, who she talks to, what she wears, how she speaks, no woman should feel that her behaviour is in any way responsible. There is not one iota of responsibility on a woman for being rape. She never asks for it.

As long as we send the message that a woman needs to protect herself from being raped, the message will continue that our behaviour is somehow responsible. And it's not, ever.

meeeeh

Jerrica wrote: »

Nope. There is nothing that a woman does that makes it more likely that she will be raped. It doesn't matter where she goes, what she does, who she talks to, what she wears, how she speaks, no woman should feel that her behaviour is in any way responsible. There is not one iota of responsibility on a woman for being rape. She never asks for it.

As long as we send the message that a woman needs to protect herself from being raped, the message will continue that our behaviour is somehow responsible. And it's not, ever.

That is like advising people not to lock their door or car, because we really are not responsible if someone breaks in. That kind of philosophy works in perfect world where there are no bad people. But until we live in a perfect world I prefer to lock my car. And it has nothing to do with responsibility but with minimizing the chance of something happening. There is always a happy medium where you decide what precautions can you take that won't overly impact on your life but you do take certain precautions.

Jerrica

meeeeh wrote: »

That is like advising people not to lock their door or car, because we really are not responsible if someone breaks in. That kind of philosophy works in perfect world where there are no bad people. But until we live in a perfect world I prefer to lock my car.

Not quite and, while I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, I personally find comparing breaking into a car to breaking into a woman's body to be quite disagreeable.

I don't tend to go wandering around the streets on my own at night because common sense and logic dictates that it's not safe. But by not walking around at night at no point am I taking responsibility for the fact that it would be in any way my fault if I were raped at 2am down a side street. That's the subtle difference - we can talk about staying safe in generalities, but as soon as your start to include phrases like "don't walk around at night to stop you getting raped" it introduces an element of blame that has no place being there.

YumCha

eviltwin wrote: »

Probably because most rapists aren't going to be put off by an ad campaign. However if you give women advice on the best way to protect themselves - and thats not saying its a woman's responsibility to not get raped btw - it might just help protect someone.

But that's the thing - most of this "advice" is absolutely useless...

Here's some actual facts:
- Approximately 66% of rapes and 73% of sexual assaults are committed by someone known to the victim
- More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occurred within 1 mile of their home or at their home. Of this 4 in 10 take place at the victim's home

All this "advice" does is perpetuate stupid rape myths which create huge turmoil for victims when they are attacked and can even influence likelihood of prosecution if (and that's a huge if) cases go to trial. Read Nina Burrowes study on rape myths - attacks that go against our primary narrative of the stranger hiding in the bushes actually end up supporting the defence because they don't fit what a "real rapist" is - meaning partner rapes or acquaintance rapes without any other non-sexual violence are unlikely to be reported, believed or prosecuted.

Also a lot of this "advice" perpetuates this stupid idea that all 'real' victims should fight back (example: take your keys out from your purse and hold them between your fingers). This is complete and utter bull**** - it is a totally normal response to either freeze/go non-responsive, or to even play along and be friendly in an attempt to talk your way out of it - however not fighting back is construed as "well you didn't do anything to stop it" and is just another way victims are made to feel responsible.

I have tons I could say about this, but instead I'm just going to link to What's actually wrong with telling women not to drink

meeeeh

Jerrica wrote: »

Not quite and, while I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, I personally find comparing breaking into a car to breaking into a woman's body to be quite disagreeable.

Oh come on. I was sexually attacked. I don't wish my attacker would rot in prison, I wish attack wouldn't happen.

I was advised in Mexico City not to walk around after dark so I wouldn't get killed, people are advised not to wear certain color t-shirts into certain favelas in Rio because you don't want to be mistaken for a rival gang member and get killed (I know someone to whom it almost happened)... So if you don't want comparisons with break ins, I think a comparison with murders is strong enough.

eviltwin

Jerrica wrote: »

Nope. There is nothing that a woman does that makes it more likely that she will be raped. It doesn't matter where she goes, what she does, who she talks to, what she wears, how she speaks, no woman should feel that her behaviour is in any way responsible. There is not one iota of responsibility on a woman for being rape. She never asks for it.

As long as we send the message that a woman needs to protect herself from being raped, the message will continue that our behaviour is somehow responsible. And it's not, ever.

I never said it was a woman's fault if she is raped. I don't know why we can't talk about tips to help women without being accused of blaming the woman. No one asks to be raped but there is nothing wrong with being aware of what tactics rapists use.

For example in college we were always told that if we offered a drink in a pub by a male we didn't know, that it was always better to see him order the drink. This was as a result of a few incidents were women had been victims of date rape drugs. Tbh it was something that would never have occured to me. I didn't feel it was offensive to me as a woman to be given that advice, it was given in good faith and not meant to take the blame away from the rapist. To me its no harm to remind women, its not saying its their fault or responsibility.

Its no different to me telling my children about stranger danger.

vitani

eviltwin wrote: »

I never said it was a woman's fault if she is raped. I don't know why we can't talk about tips to help women without being accused of blaming the woman. No one asks to be raped but there is nothing wrong with being aware of what tactics rapists use.

It took me a while to work out the difference in my own head. Eventually, I figured it out - essentially, it's the difference between advising 'it's not safe to walk down that alley after dark' and asking 'why did you walk down that alley when you knew it wasn't safe?'

YumCha

eviltwin wrote: »

I never said it was a woman's fault if she is raped. I don't know why we can't talk about tips to help women without being accused of blaming the woman. No one asks to be raped but there is nothing wrong with being aware of what tactics rapists use.

Because these 'tips' don't actually help women and they don't correspond to actual predator theory or statistics about who rapists are and how they find victims.

We should be more interested in things that actually work such as bystander intervention - you can read the link in my previous post for an example.

The 'tips' aren't clever or funny. The best they are is pointless, the worst, obnoxious.

Sometimes I hope I never have sons, it's would be a minefield of innuendo and suspicion for them to navigate, just by virtue of them being male.

meeeeh

YumCha wrote: »

But that's the thing - most of this "advice" is absolutely useless...

Here's some actual facts:
- Approximately 66% of rapes and 73% of sexual assaults are committed by someone known to the victim
- More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occurred within 1 mile of their home or at their home. Of this 4 in 10 take place at the victim's home

All this "advice" does is perpetuate stupid rape myths which create huge turmoil for victims when they are attacked and can even influence likelihood of prosecution if (and that's a huge if) cases go to trial. Read Nina Burrowes study on rape myths - attacks that go against our primary narrative of the stranger hiding in the bushes actually end up supporting the defence because they don't fit what a "real rapist" is - meaning partner rapes or acquaintance rapes without any other non-sexual violence are unlikely to be reported, believed or prosecuted.

Also a lot of this "advice" perpetuates this stupid idea that all 'real' victims should fight back (example: take your keys out from your purse and hold them between your fingers). This is complete and utter bull**** - it is a totally normal response to either freeze/go non-responsive, or to even play along and be friendly in an attempt to talk your way out of it - however not fighting back is construed as "well you didn't do anything to stop it" and is just another way victims are made to feel responsible.

I have tons I could say about this, but instead I'm just going to link to What's actually wrong with telling women not to drink

But don't then the lists like the one in OP just repeat the same myth that women are raped by strangers in parking lot. BTw that was also one of the points I was trying to make. Everybody knows that attacking someone in the dark in the woods is a rape but not everybody thinks that woman (or a man) in abusive relationship where they are afraid to say no because of previous violence or some other reasons, can be just as much raped. I just don't believe that debate about sexual violence needs more polarization, I believe it needs to be widened and also be more informative. The unfortunate problem is that those issues don't fit on a poster or into not so funny joke.

Carlos Orange

Candie wrote: »

The 'tips' aren't clever or funny. The best they are is pointless, the worst, obnoxious.

Sometimes I hope I never have sons, it's would be a minefield of innuendo and suspicion for them to navigate, just by virtue of them being male.

There is some humour available but they are just an expanded version of the idea that men should be told not to rape instead of telling women how to avoid being raped. As humour it is passable but as a message it has always come across to me as cheap idealogical point scoring and not an attempt to reduce the amount of rapes.

Amirani

vitani wrote: »

It took me a while to work out the difference in my own head. Eventually, I figured it out - essentially, it's the difference between advising 'it's not safe to walk down that alley after dark' and asking 'why did you walk down that alley when you knew it wasn't safe?'

Very well articulated. I think those two statements are often mixed up or misinterpreted despite them meaning two completely different things.

In my opinion, the first statement places the blame firmly on the aggressor, the second on the victim.

But while the first statement is okay and generally means well, the problem that arises is that people tend to over-use it and as a result the only thing that gets looked at are actions taken by the victims. However, if you want to have any serious reduction in rape statistics, you have to look at changing the mentality of the aggressors in rape scenarios. This is a lot more difficult to do, because it's not completely clear what causes the aggression.

clairefontaine

Candie wrote: »

The 'tips' aren't clever or funny. The best they are is pointless, the worst, obnoxious.

Sometimes I hope I never have sons, it's would be a minefield of innuendo and suspicion for them to navigate, just by virtue of them being male.

Yeah, like who would ever stick this up on their father's, brother's, grandfather's, or lover's refrigerator without expecting some blow back?

If this is meant to be funny, it isn't.

Cold Chocolate

psinno wrote: »

There is some humour available but they are just an expanded version of the idea that men should be told not to rape instead of telling women how to avoid being raped. As humour it is passable but as a message it has always come across to me as cheap idealogical point scoring and not an attempt to reduce the amount of rapes.

Do you actually think a rapist wouldn't rape because you asked them not to?

GalwayGuy2

You do realize that it's a rape joke?

It's making a joke on the subject of rape and what happens to women. As, hopefully, well meaning it is, it's still using rape as satire/humour.

Lyaiera

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

You do realize that it's a rape joke?

It's making a joke on the subject of rape and what happens to women. As, hopefully, well meaning it is, it's still using rape as satire/humour.

No it's not. It's satire of the advice given to women. It's not using rape as humour.

yermandan

Its EXTREMELY satirical and obviously does not poke fun at rape, rather the fallacy that a woman is EVER at fault for it

Carlos Orange

Cold Chocolate wrote: »

Do you actually think a rapist wouldn't rape because you asked them not to?

I guess calling it cheap idealogical point scoring might have been a little subtle for some.

GalwayGuy2

Well, whatever ye say.

Personally, I don't find the idea of a woman being raped in an 'elevator' or 'laundry room' something to laugh about.

Frito

NiallSparky wrote: »

Very well articulated. I think those two statements are often mixed up or misinterpreted despite them meaning two completely different things.

In my opinion, the first statement places the blame firmly on the aggressor, the second on the victim.

I'll have to disagree with you there, the first statement cites the darkness of the alley as contributing factor. We get into a whole lot of problems when we start looking at the implications behind statements. The first statement raises awareness of a potential risk, which is fine in itself. However the real-life discourse is more "don't walk down that dark alley" rather than "it's not safe to walk down that dark alley". (But it's ok to cartwheel down it if I'm wearing trousers?!)
It's not unreasonable to critique prescriptive lists in terms of cost-benefit ie liberty vs. security, potential risk vs. actual risk, but I've mentioned in another thread about rape avoidance precautions and risk assessment so I won't go into it here.

Regarding the OP, it's obviously satirical (I agree the gender polarity of victim and perpetrator is unhelpful). It's time we moved on from "how not to be a victim/perpetrator" to a meaningful discussion about how and why rapes happen and what the social and individual response(s) could be. It's not enough to say it's because alleys are dark and there are men at the end so we should take a taxi.

Btw, my whole post isn't directed at you Niall, just using your comment as a springboard.

Turtwig

Suppose somebody is walking in a dimly lit area and that they're sexually assaulted. Now, for the sake of keeping things interesting (in a horrible way) let's also assume somebody is sexually assaulted in a well lit area. And because this is a really cruel world let's assume another person is sexually assaulted in an area who's lighting standards is the median of the previous two assault locations.

Knowing only the information given which victim was most likely to experience harm? The assumption most would make is that dark area carried the greater risk. So here's the conundrum: if you advise people to stick to brighter areas and if they all obey it doesn't the safest location by default become the dark alley*?

In other words, does rape advice only work because when a person heeds it there's plenty of people who don't. If everyone heeded it,would it be futile? If so, how can it currently be considered good advice?

(Sorry for all the suppositions. Hope the structure of them is clear )
* Being pedantic it would probably still be the most risk averse area. Hopefully phrasing the question like so illustrated the point I wanted to make. Avoiding the darker area would be good advice but not just because of the numbers of assaults that occurs there.

Driveby Dogboy

Jernal wrote: »

In other words, does rape advice only work because when a person heeds it there's plenty of people who don't. If everyone heeded it,would it be futile? If so, how can it currently be considered good advice?

It's good advice for EXACTLY that reason,

Turtwig

Driveby Dogboy wrote: »

It's good advice for EXACTLY that reason,

How is something good advice if all you're doing is betting on the misfortune of others?

Driveby Dogboy

Good advice for the people who take it.

I live out the country, and my parish is setting up a 'community alert area', putting up signs, and a text alert number, and so on.
It was explained to us that the only reason it works is that not everywhere has it, if a cop car does a drive-by every time something is reported, lads won't be long fecking off somewhere else to cause some mischief

Amirani

Jernal wrote: »

In other words, does rape advice only work because when a person heeds it there's plenty of people who don't. If everyone heeded it,would it be futile? If so, how can it currently be considered good advice?
[/Size]

Bloomberg, CNBC and anyone who gives stock market advice works on exactly this sort of premise.

Turtwig

NiallSparky wrote: »

Bloomberg, CNBC and anyone who gives stock market advice works on exactly this premise.

That's kind of a different thing though more hawk or dove strategies but fair point.

The point I was trying to make is that some advice seemingly does nothing more than shuffle numbers. Meaning it's unclear how it actually reduces rape numbers.

lazygal

Driveby Dogboy wrote: »

if a cop car does a drive-by every time something is reported, lads won't be long fecking off somewhere else to cause some mischief

I don't get this. It's not solving the problem, its just moving it somewhere else. To use an obvious analogy, its what the Catholic church did with priests who abused children and were caught out, just move the problem on to another community rather than sorting out the problem itself.

Driveby Dogboy

well, i have no idea myself how to reduce rape/ sexual assualt figures, or any crime for that matter, but if i can take steps to reduce the chances of it happening to me/ someone i care about, well why not?

meeeeh

There are two or actually infinity of seperate issues. One is working as an international community to reduce the problem, then as a national, local, family, group of friends and so on. And there are personal precautions. Suggesting you don't do anything because someone will get hurt anyway is suggesting people should take one for the team. Not to mention that certain precautions will decrease general rates.

cheesefiend

Of course it is important for people to know where they are in danger and how to avoid those situations (even if most sexual assaults don't happen in the situations we are all warned about).

But it is equally important, imo, that there are some campaigns to drive home the fact that the responsibility lies with the perpetrator.

It all depends on whether or not you think that people are destined to do wrong, and therefore there is no point in intervention. I don't believe that. I genuinely think that some people don't realise the impact their actions have. I don't know what such a campaign would consist of but to me it's just as important.

GalwayGuy2

It all depends on whether or not you think that people are destined to do wrong, and therefore there is no point in intervention. I don't believe that. I genuinely think that some people don't realise the impact their actions have. I don't know what such a campaign would consist of but to me it's just as important.

And if the perceived intervention leads to a multiplication of the problem?

Everybody does have their own explanation of why rapes happen. What if your explanation is wrong?

cheesefiend

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

And if the perceived intervention leads to a multiplication of the problem?

Everybody does have their own explanation of why rapes happen. What if your explanation is wrong?

I don't know what you mean. I don't have an explanation of why rape happens.

What I'm saying is wouldn't it be great if some effort was made to educate people? As another form of prevention. Instead, the only focus on rapists (and yet it's still so ineffective) is on prosecution.

If we say the only way to prevent rapes is to show women how to avoid rape, we are taking responsibility away from rapists. We may not intentionally be blaming women but we are saying it's up to women to save themselves.

I'm not saying there is an intervention that will curb all rapes, just there has to be something that might help! We're all psychological beings and there are lots of forensic psychologists out there.

meeeeh

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

And if the perceived intervention leads to a multiplication of the problem?

Everybody does have their own explanation of why rapes happen. What if your explanation is wrong?

I really don't get this statement.

Are you saying that easier way to report abuse, better sexual education, better intervention around children and young people (mostly men) at risk or in dysfunctional families could cause more rapes. That is a perfect excuse to do nothing.

GalwayGuy2

I really don't get this statement.

Are you saying that easier way to report abuse, better sexual education, better intervention around children and young people (mostly men) at risk or in dysfunctional families could cause more rapes. That is a perfect excuse to do nothing.

Yes, it was quite a nebulous statement on my part. It was really more of a think of other reactions when you try and do something. It is not a perfect excuse do nothing, but an 'excuse' to look at what a person wants to implement, and the potential side effects of that implementation.

Standman

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Well, whatever ye say.

Personally, I don't find the idea of a woman being raped in an 'elevator' or 'laundry room' something to laugh about.

The joke wasn't "Look at this woman who got raped in this laundry room, isn't this hilarious?".

It irritates me when people refuse to understand how humour works when it comes to some topics.