new powers

Raider190

want2b wrote: »

How did you do yourself?

.....

Santa Cruz

thestar wrote: »

Is it accepted that there will be some advantage given to reserves in future campaigns?

Oh God, Haven't you got the message yet? No wonder the authorities are getting away with this scam.

want2b

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Oh God, Haven't you got the message yet? No wonder the authorities are getting away with this scam.

What's the message.

Raider190

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Oh God, Haven't you got the message yet? No wonder the authorities are getting away with this scam.

Cruz it is no scam a group of dedicated people who want to better themselves and do some good in the community . A bit of respect is needed please

Raider190

want2b wrote: »

What's the message.

To answer your question in a more polite manner. It would appear that the only advantage at present will be be at the interview stage when a GR may be able to demonstrate his or her aptitude for the role by means of their experience and present a reference from an officer of senior rank. We are all waiting to see how the third stage goes but a number of reserves are having the benefit of mentoring and coaching from experienced members in order to better their chances at the interview. This would not have been available to them had they not joined as they would have not made contact with these individuals.

bluetop

Raider190 wrote: »

To answer your question in a more polite manner. It would appear that the only advantage at present will be be at the interview stage when a GR may be able to demonstrate his or her aptitude for the role by means of their experience and present a reference from an officer of senior rank. We are all waiting to see how the third stage goes but a number of reserves are having the benefit of mentoring and coaching from experienced members in order to better their chances at the interview. This would not have been available to them had they not joined as they would have not made contact with these individuals.

I totally disagree with that, the whole point is here there was no need for reserves to have done any of this, they could have simply promoted the reserves to full time after all these people most of whom are and have been giving their time freely for the last 7 yrs, and this is how they repay them by making them jump through a hoop, yes this might be unfair to people outside, if they had of been interested they would have done what we all done and joined the reserve force, all this stupid talk about i do this and i do that and i dont have the time to commit, well if you dont have the time to commit a few hrs you dont deserve to be given a place simple.

They are going to take on new recruits who know nothing about policing compared to the people who have given up 7 yrs of their time and are committed, they know the lie of the land so to speak compared ti a person coming fresh out of the collage.

want2b

bluetop wrote: »

I totally disagree with that, the whole point is here there was no need for reserves to have done any of this, they could have simply promoted the reserves to full time after all these people most of whom are and have been giving their time freely for the last 7 yrs, and this is how they repay them by making them jump through a hoop, yes this might be unfair to people outside, if they had of been interested they would have done what we all done and joined the reserve force, all this stupid talk about i do this and i do that and i dont have the time to commit, well if you dont have the time to commit a few hrs you dont deserve to be given a place simple.

They are going to take on new recruits who know nothing about policing compared to the people who have given up 7 yrs of their time and are committed, they know the lie of the land so to speak compared ti a person coming fresh out of the collage.

Totally agree it shows no thanks to the people who have committed time into it.

Bloodwing

bluetop wrote: »

I totally disagree with that, the whole point is here there was no need for reserves to have done any of this, they could have simply promoted the reserves to full time after all these people most of whom are and have been giving their time freely for the last 7 yrs, and this is how they repay them by making them jump through a hoop, yes this might be unfair to people outside, if they had of been interested they would have done what we all done and joined the reserve force, all this stupid talk about i do this and i do that and i dont have the time to commit, well if you dont have the time to commit a few hrs you dont deserve to be given a place simple.

They are going to take on new recruits who know nothing about policing compared to the people who have given up 7 yrs of their time and are committed, they know the lie of the land so to speak compared ti a person coming fresh out of the collage.

Am I not correct in thinking that the reserve don't have to do an aptitude test? I don't see why a reserve should get a pass in any of the entry requirements. There is a massive difference between the role/duties of a reserve compared to a full time member, 7 years or more as a reserve is not an indication of suitability for the full time.

Edit: just to clarify, I am referring to the fact that entry to the reserve doesn't require an aptitude test, not that reserves don't have to do an aptitude tset to the full time.

Santa Cruz

want2b wrote: »

Totally agree it shows no thanks to the people who have committed time into it.

What thanks do you want? You volunteered to work for nothing and now you want thanks.

snams

Can you go back on track lads?

Raider190

Santa Cruz wrote: »

What thanks do you want? You volunteered to work for nothing and now you want thanks.

Typical response from cruz. Same old same old.

Raider190

Bloodwing wrote: »

Am I not correct in thinking that the reserve don't have to do an aptitude test? I don't see why a reserve should get a pass in any of the entry requirements. There is a massive difference between the role/duties of a reserve compared to a full time member, 7 years or more as a reserve is not an indication of suitability for the full time.

Edit: just to clarify, I am referring to the fact that entry to the reserve doesn't require an aptitude test, not that reserves don't have to do an aptitude tset to the full time.

Am assuming you are not a reserve. Please correct me if I am wrong. What exactly do you think a reserve does on a shift. I am interested in the perception and the reality

want2b

Santa Cruz wrote: »

What thanks do you want? You volunteered to work for nothing and now you want thanks.

For your information I am not a reserve.

want2b

Bloodwing wrote: »

Am I not correct in thinking that the reserve don't have to do an aptitude test? I don't see why a reserve should get a pass in any of the entry requirements. There is a massive difference between the role/duties of a reserve compared to a full time member, 7 years or more as a reserve is not an indication of suitability for the full time.

Edit: just to clarify, I am referring to the fact that entry to the reserve doesn't require an aptitude test, not that reserves don't have to do an aptitude tset to the full time.

You say a massive difference between a reserve and full time. I would disagree with this. There are difference's but not massive, maybe I'm wrong just my opinion.

Santa Cruz

Raider190 wrote: »

Typical response from cruz. Same old same old.

The truth hurts.

Bloodwing

Raider190 wrote: »

Am assuming you are not a reserve. Please correct me if I am wrong. What exactly do you think a reserve does on a shift. I am interested in the perception and the reality

You're right I'm not a reserve, I'm a full time member. I know exactly what a reserve does on a shift, so I guess my perception is close to reality.

bluetop

Bloodwing wrote: »

Am I not correct in thinking that the reserve don't have to do an aptitude test? I don't see why a reserve should get a pass in any of the entry requirements. There is a massive difference between the role/duties of a reserve compared to a full time member, 7 years or more as a reserve is not an indication of suitability for the full time.

Edit: just to clarify, I am referring to the fact that entry to the reserve doesn't require an aptitude test, not that reserves don't have to do an aptitude tset to the full time.

Do you honestly think after 7yrs you are not a suitable candidate for full time? and what has an aptitude test got to do with it? you might not do everything a FT does but remember they are getting paid big difference not that it would matter either way, roles and duties are evolving granted they are slow to come but they will in time, remember the specials go directly from specials now to constables so why should it be any different here, the problem here is people "want" but dont want to help themselves by joining the reserve force so i dont think they should have a right over a reserve member period, same old as i have said before haven't the time to busy with my mates drinking and partying to bother doing it.

If it was compulsory to having to serve at least 12mts as a reserve to even be considered to get in full time i bet peoples opinions would change and they would make the time just like we all did they would be biting at the bit so to speak to get in, so all this sure their is a big difference yes but the difference is we know a hell of a lot more than any new people coming in and would be in the best interest of the force for them to recruit internally, many FT mules cant understand why they are not using what they have now, less training time would be required and they would have knowledge of the job, people outside dont have a clue what Garda put up with anything from been spat at to been been stabbed, shot at abused to the hilt family's threatened, drunks puking on you to urinating as well, people think its an easy job it not the FT have a tough job and that is all before a single piece of paper is wrtitten, coming in on their days off to finish paper work, going to court on your day off, how many new people know the working of what actually goes on in a station, not a lot and to be honest they are in for a big awakening how many will stick it for the pay they will receive "lets see" .

Raider190

Bloodwing wrote: »

You're right I'm not a reserve, I'm a full time member. I know exactly what a reserve does on a shift, so I guess my perception is close to reality.

Excellent if so then what are the differences. Now I'm sure that some reserves differ from station to station . This does depend on the type of sgt a reserve is reporting to and the profile of the particular unit they are assigned to.

Raider190

Santa Cruz wrote: »

The truth hurts.

Cruz you know so little about the reserve and there is no willingness to learn. I asked you the question before and you deemed not to reply is there nothing you do for the sake of the community ,scouts , first aid, meals on wheels etc . Anything where the pursuit of money is shadowed by a more noble cause. If you do , brilliant if not then your attitude towards the reserve is slightly jaundiced as reserves actually act and don't talk. They commit to a role which contributes , they put themselves on the front line with their full time colleagues. My question with the greatest of respect " what do you do ? "

Bloodwing

Raider190 wrote: »

Excellent if so then what are the differences. Now I'm sure that some reserves differ from station to station . This does depend on the type of sgt a reserve is reporting to and the profile of the particular unit they are assigned to.

Well for a start a reserve works the hours that suit them, if they have a family function on they can arrange their hours around it. They don't take statements from victims or wittiness who have been involved in some horrendous incident. They aren't under pressure to get files done while being sent all over the place to cover short units. They don't get phone calls to come in at all hours because some lad you've been looking for has just been arrested. They don't arrive in to be told their going on an escort to Kerry and probably won't finish on time. They don't interview prisoners. I could go on but I've gone way off topic.

Raider190

Bloodwing wrote: »

Well for a start a reserve works the hours that suit them, if they have a family function on they can arrange their hours around it. They don't take statements from victims or wittiness who have been involved in some horrendous incident. They aren't under pressure to get files done while being sent all over the place to cover short units. They don't get phone calls to come in at all hours because some lad you've been looking for has just been arrested. They don't arrive in to be told their going on an escort to Kerry and probably won't finish on time. They don't interview prisoners. I could go on but I've gone way off topic.

All excellent points but then the general con census would be that's what you are paid for and I don't mean that disrespectfully I happen to think the salary scales are appalling. A reserve gets a pittance hardly enough to cover fuel costs and yet when they are on duty they are subject to the same risks as their regular colleagues. Surely this commitment should be recognised in some form when it comes to recruitment. For myself I will remain positive about the reserve no matter what happens in the future but do feel disappointed that this non recognition of our devotion and commitment to the service will lead to a number of currently serving reserves to rethink their position and may lead to a number resigning . This may of course not happen but there is always the possibility that morale will sink . I hope not as I do believe that the reserve has a lot to contribute and as it evolves it will become a training opportunity for the gardai of the future

Bloodwing

Raider190 wrote: »

All excellent points but then the general con census would be that's what you are paid for and I don't mean that disrespectfully I happen to think the salary scales are appalling. A reserve gets a pittance hardly enough to cover fuel costs and yet when they are on duty they are subject to the same risks as their regular colleagues. Surely this commitment should be recognised in some form when it comes to recruitment. For myself I will remain positive about the reserve no matter what happens in the future but do feel disappointed that this non recognition of our devotion and commitment to the service will lead to a number of currently serving reserves to rethink their position and may lead to a number resigning . This may of course not happen but there is always the possibility that morale will sink . I hope not as I do believe that the reserve has a lot to contribute and as it evolves it will become a training opportunity for the gardai of the future

I'm not trying to say that reserves should be doing all that for free, the point I was making is there is a huge difference between the reserve and the full time in terms of their roles and duties which is something that some people around here seem not to realise. I have a lot of time for most of the reserves in the station they're sound lads who I'm sure will get the FT at some point so don't think I'm knocking the people that do it.

Santa Cruz

Raider190 wrote: »

All excellent points but then the general con census would be that's what you are paid for and I don't mean that disrespectfully I happen to think the salary scales are appalling. A reserve gets a pittance hardly enough to cover fuel costs and yet when they are on duty they are subject to the same risks as their regular colleagues. Surely this commitment should be recognised in some form when it comes to recruitment. For myself I will remain positive about the reserve no matter what happens in the future but do feel disappointed that this non recognition of our devotion and commitment to the service will lead to a number of currently serving reserves to rethink their position and may lead to a number resigning . This may of course not happen but there is always the possibility that morale will sink . I hope not as I do believe that the reserve has a lot to contribute and as it evolves it will become a training opportunity for the gardai of the future

Right at the start of this discussion on other posts I have said that recognition will be given to Reserves who have come on to units and did their job well. They will get this recognition in the form of a good reference from Garda supervisors and it will stand to them. Reserves which Supervisors are not happy with will not get good references. After that it is up to themselves at interview to impress the board. Some posters here try to portray their Reserve membership as some great altruistic mission when in fact they saw it as an easy passage to full time membership. Now that they have fallen by the wayside in aptitude tests they are building up a grievance about their treatment. In that case they may as well resign. As regards getting a pittance that was known from the start. They knew the conditions. I keep my sympathy for full time Gardaí who have entered in to financial arrangements on the basis of earning a certain salary and now the Government have hit their pay and conditions.

msg11

Bloodwing wrote: »

being sent all over the place to cover short units. They don't get phone calls to come in at all hours because some lad

If someone was to ring me now asking could I come in tonight to spare a few hours to help a unit short on number I would have no problem. This is what I actually thought a reserve was for, like a reserve pool off water for when the main pool is under pressure. But instead it's left up too yourself to come in whenever you want as you put it.

All the things you have listed above I have no problem doing, I just don't do them because you get looked at with ten heads if you try use your brain as a Reserve. I don't know about other Reserves but I didn't grow up in cotton wool all my life some people are just street smart and have a natural act for knowing when something is not right and how to talk to the gougers, full timers need to start getting the Reserves into action and showing a little faith in them.

I have no problem with the fact I missed out on the full time, I do feel a bit pissed off at the way it was handled. I was never expecting to walk into a full time position. I think of it as an internship like that job-bridge scheme if you have someone there that has proven themselves, willing to learn, good worker always on time, clean and polite. You have a position coming up and you outsource the hiring of the staff member to another company at a cost when you have someone ready to go.

Put it this way. How would a full time member feel, the sergeants exams are coming up. Your fairly excited chance to move up the ladder good chance of getting that promotion to sergeant only 1000 internal applications for 50 new posts but wait, It's now decided that these posts will be filled from all candidates that hold the requirements and pass the aptitude tests. You fall at the first stages of the test and hear via friends that people you know have applied and gotten to the final stages and you know deep down they have absolutely no interest in the job.

At the end of the day I had a grievance I am over it, life moves on. It's AGS loss that many Reserves full suited to the role have been overlooked. I will continue with the Reserves as I still think it's good to contribute something, good skills are learned and it's great for apply some stuff to current/future jobs.

What I will say is full time members need to have a more positive outlook on the work they are doing, I can see it as a Reserve the respect for most members of the public or the look of thanks/relief in people eyes when they see the Garda showing up too some lunatic off there face to deal with it. Maybe someone get's a light sentence for thief and your dealing with them day after day but if you didn't that person would be at it tenfold. Just have even a small bit more faith in us Reserves.

Scouser

Bloodwing wrote: »

Well for a start a reserve works the hours that suit them, if they have a family function on they can arrange their hours around it. They don't take statements from victims or wittiness who have been involved in some horrendous incident. They aren't under pressure to get files done while being sent all over the place to cover short units. They don't get phone calls to come in at all hours because some lad you've been looking for has just been arrested. They don't arrive in to be told their going on an escort to Kerry and probably won't finish on time. They don't interview prisoners. I could go on but I've gone way off topic.

of course we dont - thats your job!

now shurrup and get on with it :cool:

Hill St Blue

Bloodwing wrote: »

Well for a start a reserve works the hours that suit them, if they have a family function on they can arrange their hours around it. They don't take statements from victims or wittiness who have been involved in some horrendous incident. They aren't under pressure to get files done while being sent all over the place to cover short units. They don't get phone calls to come in at all hours because some lad you've been looking for has just been arrested. They don't arrive in to be told their going on an escort to Kerry and probably won't finish on time. They don't interview prisoners. I could go on but I've gone way off topic.

With all due respect, that is what the job entails, and that is what they are paid to do (and they're not paid half enough in my opinion!)
There are naturally going to be differences (as outlined in some of the above examples) in what a full timer and a Reserve are expected to do. In fairness, most (but not always all) of the follow up work relating to incidents that are dealt with, lands squarely on the full timer's shoulders, but that is why they are being paid a full time wage.
It is also worth noting that most Reserves have full time jobs themselves, and are often subject to stresses and job related hassles, that although being circumstantially different to that of a Garda, does not make them any less bothersome or inconvenient...sometimes, negative things just come with the territory. (*It's not as if Reserves just sit around, doing absolutely nothing, in their stress free, hassle free lives, waiting patiently to go in every week, and volunteer their free time to An Garda Siochana for the craic, after all!)

*Last part written with tongue firmly in cheek, but it is possibly something that some full timers don't seem willing to acknowledge!

Scouser

Hill St Blue wrote: »

It is also worth noting that most Reserves have full time jobs themselves, and are often subject to stresses and job related hassles, that although being circumstantially different to that of a Garda, does not make them any less bothersome or inconvenient...sometimes, negative things just come with the territory. (*It's not as if Reserves just sit around, doing absolutely nothing, in their stress free, hassle free lives, waiting patiently to go in every week, and volunteer their free time to An Garda Siochana for the craic, after all!)

*Last part written with tongue firmly in cheek, but it is possibly something that some full timers don't seem willing to acknowledge!

yes some would go on as if we are in Reserve in every aspect of life!

Santa Cruz

Hill St Blue wrote: »

With all due respect, that is what the job entails, and that is what they are paid to do (and they're not paid half enough in my opinion!)
There are naturally going to be differences (as outlined in some of the above examples) in what a full timer and a Reserve are expected to do. In fairness, most (but not always all) of the follow up work relating to incidents that are dealt with, lands squarely on the full timer's shoulders, but that is why they are being paid a full time wage.
It is also worth noting that most Reserves have full time jobs themselves, and are often subject to stresses and job related hassles, that although being circumstantially different to that of a Garda, does not make them any less bothersome or inconvenient...sometimes, negative things just come with the territory. (*It's not as if Reserves just sit around, doing absolutely nothing, in their stress free, hassle free lives, waiting patiently to go in every week, and volunteer their free time to An Garda Siochana for the craic, after all!)

*Last part written with tongue firmly in cheek, but it is possibly something that some full timers don't seem willing to acknowledge!

Maybe it's because they are not too concerned about you

Bloodwing

Hill St Blue wrote: »

With all due respect, that is what the job entails, and that is what they are paid to do (and they're not paid half enough in my opinion!)
There are naturally going to be differences (as outlined in some of the above examples) in what a full timer and a Reserve are expected to do. In fairness, most (but not always all) of the follow up work relating to incidents that are dealt with, lands squarely on the full timer's shoulders, but that is why they are being paid a full time wage.
It is also worth noting that most Reserves have full time jobs themselves, and are often subject to stresses and job related hassles, that although being circumstantially different to that of a Garda, does not make them any less bothersome or inconvenient...sometimes, negative things just come with the territory. (*It's not as if Reserves just sit around, doing absolutely nothing, in their stress free, hassle free lives, waiting patiently to go in every week, and volunteer their free time to An Garda Siochana for the craic, after all!)

*Last part written with tongue firmly in cheek, but it is possibly something that some full timers don't seem willing to acknowledge!

A lot of people seem to have missed my point. The initial point I responded to was someone saying the reserve shouldn't have to do an aptitude test for the full time. I then pointed out that the two roles and duties are massively different. I was then asked to point out how they are different which I did. I never claimed that the reserve should be doing any of those things I pointed out.

I have no issue with the reserve or people who join it. I was in the RDF myself. I think the reserve could be used more effectively in a community role such as attending schools and other meetings with community bodies, but that is just my opinion.

Santa Cruz

"I think the reserve could be used more effectively in a community role such as attending schools and other meetings with community bodies, but that is just my opinion"

How could that be more effective or is it a case of wanting the uniform but not the work that goes with it ?