Size 16 models, Debenhams are a step in the right direction

WilyCoyote

Hopefully less of the sick stick insect pics in future. And a vote of confidence in normal women. Lets hear it for the ladies! Yay.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2488259/Debenhams-unveils-size-16-mannequins-reflect-average-woman.html

sbsquarepants

Big girls need love too:D

I couldn't give a toss what size they are, so long as they're in proportion that will do me!

Balmed Out

Plenty of healthy thin girls, don't see people need to put them down to feel better about bigger sizes.

irish_goat

Size 16 is generally overweight and should not be considered "normal".

hoodwinked

i am a size 10, there is nothing wrong with having size 10 mannequins,

i hate the way they put them down as "ridiculously skinny" or "smaller than real women." i am real *feels self* i think.....


it is offensive however! :mad:


also all those manniquins have big boobs, what about those of us with smaller boobs? i feel discriminated against by debenhams!

irish_goat wrote: »

Size 16 is generally overweight and should not be considered "normal".

its relative to height, and body fat, but yes in theory i would say a 'normal' healthy size range would be 10-14.

FTA69

In most cases being a size 16 means they're a bit overweight. Being overweight isn't something that should be celebrated as normal.

WilyCoyote

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Hopefully less of the sick stick insect pics in future. And a vote of confidence in normal women. Lets hear it for the ladies! Yay.

Why the need to slag off women who are thin to make women who are potentially overweight feel better about themselves?

muckwarrior

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Hopefully less of the sick stick insect pics in future. And a vote of confidence in normal women. Lets hear it for the ladies! Yay.

So overweight people should be viewed as "normal" but slim people should be derided as "stick insects" :rolleyes:

WilyCoyote

irish_goat wrote: »

Size 16 is generally overweight and should not be considered "normal".

If you walk down any high street, you'll see more women leaning towards size 16 than size 10. By that standard it should be considered normal

kjl

Eh, I know I will be slated here, but is size 16 the norm now?

Are we just going to redefine the "norm" because people have let themselves go?

Anyone who eats right and does 30 min of cardio exercise a day will not be a size 16, should we be encouraging and say that it's right?

I know people will say that women have babies and therefore put on weight, but a lot of women also lose weight after their pregnancies.

I just think it's a slippery slope, today size 16 is the norm how long before obese is the norm?

donvito99

I don't get wimmin's sizes...

I am a medium.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Yay lets celebrate unhealthy lifestyle choices.

FTA69

WilyCoyote wrote: »

If you walk down any high street, you'll see more women leaning towards size 16 than size 10. By that standard it should be considered normal

That only indicates society's rising obesity problem as opposed to any "natural" body shape. Being overweight isn't "normal".

WilyCoyote

FTA69 wrote: »

In most cases being a size 16 means they're a bit overweight. Being overweight isn't something that should be celebrated as normal.

If the majority are closer to size 16 then that is normal by any definition. The term 'overweight' will evolve to mean ladies further up the scale. As has happened before in history

WilyCoyote

WilyCoyote wrote: »

If you walk down any high street, you'll see more women leaning towards size 16 than size 10. By that standard it should be considered normal

Average doesn't necessarily mean normal.

Muise...

From the Ice Age to the Dole Age, there is but one concern...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH18_dZIYOE

WilyCoyote

Deleted User wrote: »

Average doesn't necessarily mean normal.

Please explain

my teapot is orange

I think you usually have to be a particularly tall woman to have a healthy BMI at size 16, though I'm sure there are exceptions.

I'm an average/slightly tall woman at 5'7 and size 12. I would have to be overweight before I would be a 14.

FTA69

WilyCoyote wrote: »

If the majority are closer to size 16 then that is normal by any definition. The term 'overweight' will evolve to mean ladies further up the scale. As has happened before in history

B*llocks. The fact that fatness has become more prevalent shouldn't make it any more acceptable. It wouldn't matter if 100% of the population were obese, the fact remains that it is an unhealthy way to be and portraying obesity as "normal" or "curvy" etc is just an attempt to avoid facing up to that.

longhalloween

In fairness, the woman in the picture is probably a 12, but needs a 16 on top for her boobs.

Unless a woman is very tall, a 16 is overweight.

Doubtful Debenhams are doing this to embrace 'real' women. More likely they see their market getting fatter and are moving to cater for them.

ShagNastii

Be a while waiting for the fat balding mannequins so us guys can feel better about ourselves. Can I get a "Hell Yeah!!!" Brothers?

Ah well not to worry. The world still turns.

kjl

WilyCoyote wrote: »

If the majority are closer to size 16 then that is normal by any definition. The term 'overweight' will evolve to mean ladies further up the scale. As has happened before in history

Ok clearly you are overweight and trying to excuse yourself by saying because it's the average that it is normal.

Work out your BMI, if you are over 25 you are overweight, it doesn't matter if everyone in the country is the same, you are still overweight.

Stop making excuses for yourself.

The Backwards Man

This just in from a Debenhams' spokesperson;

"Let them say we're crazy What do they know?
Put your arms around me Baby don't ever let go.
Let the world around us just fall apart
Baby we can make it if we're heart to heart.
And we can build this dream together
Standing strong forever
Nothing's gonna stop us now."

kjl

The Backwards Man wrote: »

This just in from a Debenhams' spokesperson;

"Let them say we're crazy What do they know?
Put your arms around me Baby don't ever let go.
Let the world around us just fall apart
Baby we can make it if we're heart to heart.
And we can build this dream together
Standing strong forever
Nothing's gonna stop us now."

I keep hearing that drum beat at the start in my head.

Duggy747

I'd love to see a morbidly obese mannequin.

RoboRat

Yay lets celebrate unhealthy lifestyle choices.

Seriously? You consider all size 16 to be overweight? There are plenty of curvier ladies out there who are not over weight, they are just curvier. Look at Holly Willoughby, Caroline Morahan, Beyonce, Christina Hendricks etc.

Perhaps its just evolution, people are bigger today than they were in the 1920's when modern style mannequins were launched.

Muise...

The Backwards Man wrote: »

This just in from a Debenhams' spokesperson;

"Let them say we're crazy What do they know?
Put your arms around me Baby don't ever let go.
Let the world around us just fall apart
Baby we can make it if we're heart to heart.
And we can build this dream together
Standing strong forever
Nothing's gonna stop us now."

:pac:

is that you Pygmalion Andrew McCarthy?

dark crystal

Who gives a shite about who's 'normal' or not (horrible word), it's nice to see what clothes look like on all types of woman. Why should only one stock size define what clothes should look like on a woman?

Women's sizes can vary hugely from shop to shop and it's nice to see different variants of mannequin for different variants of woman.

WilyCoyote

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Please explain

Average is a fact.

Normal includes a degree of subjectivity. Normal is what society expects.

Society should not expect all women to be a size 16 (or any size), despite what the average is.

RoboRat

Work out your BMI, if you are over 25 you are overweight, it doesn't matter if everyone in the country is the same, you are still overweight.

BMI is complete bollocks. I am 'morbidly obese' according to BMI yet I train every day, eat very healthily and have very little body fat. BMI takes your weight to height ratio and doesn't take bone density or muscle mass into consideration. The best indicator of obesity is working out your body fat ratio which is a different process altogether.

seosamh1980

Those size 16 mannequins just look like widened regular ones, in fairness nobody's body is as wide as a size 16 naturally with normal proportions, their size 16 mannequins have defined waists, flat stomachs, not the same as size 16 humans. Unless that human is about 6 ft 2.

Cold Chocolate

kjl wrote: »

Ok clearly you are overweight and trying to excuse yourself by saying because it's the average that it is normal.

Work out your BMI, if you are over 25 you are overweight, it doesn't matter if everyone in the country is the same, you are still overweight.

Stop making excuses for yourself.

BMI is bollox. What matters is your body fat percentage.

WilyCoyote

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I think you usually have to be a particularly tall woman to have a healthy BMI at size 16, though I'm sure there are exceptions.

I'm an average/slightly tall woman at 5'7 and size 12. I would have to be overweight before I would be a 14.

kjl wrote: »

Ok clearly you are overweight and trying to excuse yourself by saying because it's the average that it is normal.

Work out your BMI, if you are over 25 you are overweight, it doesn't matter if everyone in the country is the same, you are still overweight.

Stop making excuses for yourself.

Most rugby players are obese according to BMI stats? That explains why there are so many ruggrerbuggers about chasing them?

To kjl ....... I'm average height, 220 lbs, quite fit, eat and drink plenty, do a physically demanding job and generally have a smile on my face.

According to BMI charts am obese.

In my annual check up just recently, my stress test was excellent and the cardiologist told me my heart and lungs are in excellent shape.

Anyway, this thread is not about obesity. It's about having curvy models as opposed to skinny ones.

techdiver

RoboRat wrote: »

BMI is complete bollocks. I am 'morbidly obese' according yo BMI yet I train every day, eat very healthily and have very little body fat. BMI takes you weight to height and doesn't take bone density or muscle mass into consideration. The best indicator of obesity is working out your body fat ratio which lis a different process altogether.

100% agree about BMI being inaccurate, but most size 16 women are overweight as they are not that size due to muscle.

I would go out on a limb to say that the body fat % for these women would also indicate that they are overweight.

I think it's a modern attitude problem. I am a man and I used to be very overweight, but people would always excuse it by saying "you carry it well", or "you're very tall though", or "you're a big build". NO! I was fat. Simple!

I then lost the weight and got back to sport and people were then saying I was getting too thin!!

ahnowbrowncow

RoboRat wrote: »

BMI is complete bollocks. I am 'morbidly obese' according to BMI yet I train every day, eat very healthily and have very little body fat. BMI takes your weight to height ratio and doesn't take bone density or muscle mass into consideration. The best indicator of obesity is working out your body fat ratio which is a different process altogether.

It's not bollocks, you're in the minority. It's quite accurate for most people.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

BMI is rubbish for some people. Mostly athletes and people who lift a lot in the gym. Muscle is heavy so will throw your BMI off. But for your average Joe or Josephine its an acceptable metric.

RoboRat

Tommy Bowe is bordering on obese according to BMI!

WilyCoyote

Deleted User wrote: »

Average is a fact.

Normal includes a degree of subjectivity. Normal is what society expects.

Society should not expect all women to be a size 16 (or any size), despite what the average is.

Normal is what the majority are. Normality is what the majority expects.

Who's talking about all women being size 16?

Don't skew the discussion.

I Heart Internet

I heard that those size 16 mannequins are going to have another feature to make them more realistic - a big slice of cake






I'm kidding!!! I'm a chubbster myself!

homemadecider

RoboRat wrote: »

Seriously? You consider all size 16 to be overweight? There are plenty of curvier ladies out there who are not over weight, they are just curvier. Look at Holly Willoughby, Caroline Morahan, Beyonce, Christina Hendricks etc.

Holly Willoughby and Beyonce are nowhere NEAR a size 16. And Christina Hendricks certainly is overweight.

I know a few women at size 16, they are very very overweight. I hate to think this is become normalised. It is not healthy!

hoodwinked

dark crystal wrote: »

Women's sizes can vary hugely from shop to shop and it's nice to see different variants of mannequin for different variants of woman.

and i agree, what i am against is the way they are advertising this larger mannequin

using things like real women are bigger than a size 10, or the old size 10 mannequins are not the right size, or as this thread started size 10 are 'stick insects'

obviously advertising they were going to use a variety of sizes wasn't good enough for them so they went with "size 10 bad" "size 16 is just right"

WilyCoyote

techdiver wrote: »

100% agree about BMI being inaccurate, but most size 16 women are overweight as they are not that size due to muscle.
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But if BMI is inaccurate what criteria do you use to come up with the term 'overweight'?

ahnowbrowncow

RoboRat wrote: »

Tommy Bowe is bordering on obese according to BMI!

We get the point.

Just because BMI isn't accurate for you or professional rugby players doesn't mean it isn't accurate for the majority of people who don't train and lift weights every day.

WilyCoyote

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Normal is what the majority are. Normality is what the majority expects.

Who's talking about all women being size 16?

Don't skew the discussion.

But the majority are not a size 16. The average woman is. (the majority would be the mode, the average is the mean). That's not scewing the discussion. You asked for an explanation of why average does not necessarily mean normal, and you've gotten it.

Perhaps you would like to explain why you think it's ok to refer to size 16 women as normal - suggesting other sizes are abnormal - and why you think it's ok to slag off women who are thin.

I Heart Internet

WilyCoyote wrote: »

But if BMI is inaccurate what criteria do you use to come up with the term 'overweight'?

I couldn't find an english version - but you get the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CwXMO653Sw

my teapot is orange

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Most rugby players are obese according to BMI stats? That explains why there are so many ruggrerbuggers about chasing them?

To kjl ....... I'm average height, 220 lbs, quite fit, eat and drink plenty, do a physically demanding job and generally have a smile on my face.

According to BMI charts am obese.

In my annual check up just recently, my stress test was excellent and the cardiologist told me my heart and lungs are in excellent shape.

Anyway, this thread is not about obesity. It's about having curvy models as opposed to skinny ones.

It becomes about obesity because the argument against skinny models was that they encourage unhealthy eating, obviously then their replacement will be analysed on that score too.

There are some athletes who are technically obese but very healthy, but for the vast majority, people with unhealthy BMI's are just overweight.

Are you a man or a woman? I don't know how the average woman would bulk up to a size 16 without a lot of it being fat.

techdiver

WilyCoyote wrote: »

But if BMI is inaccurate what criteria do you use to come up with the term 'overweight'?

Body Fat % and hip to waist ratio.

You can measure body fat % through "Bio-electrical impedance analysis" or Skin Fold Caliper.

Hip to waist ratio measurements should be interpreted as below.

Male|Female|Health Risk
0.95 or below|0.80 or below|Low Risk
0.96 to 1.0|0.81 to 0.85|Moderate Risk
1.0+|0.85+|High Risk

Ilyana 2.0

I see where Debenhams were coming from with their size 16 mannequins, it does seem to be part of a wider attempt to be more inclusive to women who don't fit the size 10 'norm'. Sometimes it can be useful to see if something looks good on all sizes, as opposed to just slim women or larger women.

But a size 16 would be overweight for most women, so they've missed the mark IMO. Yeah I think it's good to try to cater for women larger than a size 8-10, but not when it celebrates being overweight, and makes slimmer women feel a bit vilified.

I'm a size 12, where are my mannequins?! :pac:

I guess they are trying to cater to market demand

Those mannequins have seriously flat tummies though don't they?

RoboRat

Holly Willoughby and Beyonce are nowhere NEAR a size 16. And Christina Hendricks certainly is overweight.

Where did I say they were size 16? I didn't, I said they were curvier.

We get the point.

Just because BMI isn't accurate for you or professional rugby players doesn't mean it isn't accurate for the majority of people who don't train and lift weights every day.

So women don't train? Funnily enough I used see plenty of women training in the gym I used to go to. I do BJJ and the Kickboxing class is mostly women, there are about 30 or so women that go to the boot camp class after ours. I see plenty of women out walking and running every night. They might not be lifting but I don't lift either, my muscle and weight is from activity and the fact that I have a naturally big build. There are plenty of women with big hips and chests and big frames which BMI doesn't take into consideration.

Another fact is that a lot of women might have to buy size 16 because they have big hips or a big chest and although they are not overweight, they are just out of proportion to the average size so have to go up a size.

WilyCoyote

Deleted User wrote: »

But the majority are not a size 16. The average woman is. (the majority would be the mode, the average is the mean). That's not scewing the discussion. You asked for an explanation of why average does not necessarily mean normal, and you've gotten it.

Perhaps you would like to explain why you think it's ok to refer to size 16 women as normal - suggesting other sizes are abnormal - and why you think it's ok to slag off women who are thin.

Afraid we've got to agree to differ in your first statement.

I would think there are more women closer to size 16 than size 10. That to me would mean average/normal/call it what you like. As your suggestion about abnormal? Give it a rest and stop the semantics.

I didn't slag off thin women so why shoot that line? I used an Adrian Mole euphemism for the skinny, heroin chic waifs that put psychological pressure on most women to conform to fashions 'gotta be' look.

Why do you think that so many women go on a myriad of diets during their lives?