RWC Bid 2023/2027

molloyjh

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ireland is not going to be a hell cheaper, easier etc compared to France, its much of a muchness.
Obviously it would be compared to SA.

And I'm not embarrassing myself, I'm offering an alternative point of view, something that seems to get a lot of push back around here.

The people who are embarrassing themselves are the poster like to one this morning that accused me of misinterpreting a report when in fact it was them who were incorrect.

You can feasibly have a single base in Ireland. You can't in France. That's just one point off the top of my head that would make life easier and cheaper on the home nations.

You're not offering an alternative point of view. You're just trying to find ways to piss all over the thing. You can't accept valid points that are being made so it's pretty obvious you have an agenda.

Interested Observer

I'd have no concern about ticket sales. This would be the biggest sporting event ever hosted on this island, with 5 years notice to build hype etc etc the Irish people will back this and get out to matches. I've no doubt at all.

thomond2006

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ireland is not going to be a hell cheaper, easier etc compared to France, its much of a muchness.
Obviously it would be compared to SA.

And I'm not embarrassing myself, I'm offering an alternative point of view, something that seems to get a lot of push back around here.

The people who are embarrassing themselves are the poster like to one this morning that accused me of misinterpreting a report when in fact it was them who were incorrect.

It's a discussion and you've resorted to the victim card. Yawn.

Adbrowne

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ireland is not going to be a hell cheaper, easier etc compared to France, its much of a muchness.
Obviously it would be compared to SA.

And I'm not embarrassing myself, I'm offering an alternative point of view, something that seems to get a lot of push back around here.

The people who are embarrassing themselves are the poster like to one this morning that accused me of misinterpreting a report when in fact it was them who were incorrect.

Aviva, Croker, PUC*, Casement*, Ravenhill, Thomond, RDS all Ready

* Two developments non related to RWC bid
-All grounds will need to be RWC prepped


Killarney, Galway, Castlebar, Kilkenny, Derry
All need varying levels of work. From what I can find on google none need rebuild in terms of RWC so the cost wont be huge. Two grounds might be cut from the bid (Derry & Castlebar most likely) so 3 grounds getting upgrades. If they are upgraded I cant see a negative with that. Local economy's benefit more if more people go to these grounds for GAA.

Aviva is a fine example. Ireland soccer games had 34000 max at old Lansdowne. Now for big games they get 50% increase. Thats 17000 more people spending more money in and around the area in shops, pubs etc.

Leinster have grown from crowds of 3000 to between 10k-18k in RDS. That has a huge benefit to the local economy. The tax back scheme enabled IRFU to keep top players at home which helped the game to grow in popularity. The knock on effect was job creation and local economy boost.

MJohnston

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Just to clarify some of the points you seem to think people haven't put across to your satisfaction:

*snip*

Top post, but sure to be ignored.

Adbrowne

connemara man wrote: »

Well seeing as the Leinster council have voted against championship games being played in Galway I can see how you would have this perspective.

But rugby union aren't as short-sighted as that. England Wales and Scotland would want there fans have a shorter trip to make so they could make as many games feel like home matches. And given the short distance they can go to more matches at a lesser cost than say France. So that's why people are assuming they'll vote Ireland over France

The IRFU have come out with a partnership with Notre dame in terms of rugby development which is good with the new pro league over there, also playing a test vs the all blacks increasing the profile of the game in the USA and Canada to a degree might gain favour and votes.

New Zealand and Ireland historically in Rugby have a good relationship also said test match that out money in their coffers and broadened their worldwide appeal may be a reason theyd vote for us.

Ireland also hosted Canada this year, and apparently are going to New York in June next year (it was mentioned in commentary last sat) and have gone to USA/Canada during last two lions tours also.

Fr Tod Umptious

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

What's not included in the 406k are people travelling from Scotland and Wales (and possibly even Ireland because of the CTA). Not to mention English ticket buyers.

They would all be considered visitors here (except Irish obviously). They have to be factored in to our calculations even if they were left out of the British ones. 406k people wouldn't buy 2,500,000 tickets between them.

From page 12 of the report.

774,000 tickets sold to international visitors.
1,036,000 tickets sold to domestic visitors.
668,00 tickets sold to local fans.


So from that I take it that domestic visitors are from outside the part of the UK that the game is on (they have a breakdown by venue)

So yes for Ireland international visitors would include the above domestic visitors.

But there is no guarantee the numbers would be as big.
It's much easier to get from Colchester to MK than it is to get from Colchester to Castlebar.

connemara man

Adbrowne wrote: »

Ireland also hosted Canada this year, and apparently are going to New York in June next year (it was mentioned in commentary last sat) and have gone to USA/Canada during last two lions tours also.

And I forgot that they are going to Japan during the next lions tour

MJohnston

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

From page 12 of the report.

774,000 tickets sold to international visitors.
1,036,000 tickets sold to domestic visitors.
668,00 tickets sold to local fans.


So from that I take it that domestic visitors are from outside the part of the UK that the game is on (they have a breakdown by venue)

So yes for Ireland international visitors would include the above domestic visitors.

But there is no guarantee the numbers would be as big.
It's much easier to get from Colchester to MK than it is to get from Colchester to Castlebar.

Tickets sold doesn't equal number of visitors, for really obvious reasons.

Fr Tod Umptious

MJohnston wrote: »

Tickets sold doesn't equal number of visitors, for really obvious reasons.

Correct, international visitors 406,000, international tickets sold 774,000.

So something under 2 tickets per visitor.

By the way on your last point about another posters good post being ignored, it will not be ignored by me, it is a good post with good points and I look forward to going through it and seeing what I can refute.

Just like I went through the report that another poster suggested I wound never read.

MJohnston

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Correct, international visitors 406,000, international tickets sold 774,000.

So something under 2 tickets per visitor.

And it's very likely that the domestic visitors were buying even more than 2 tickets on average.

CMOTDibbler

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

From page 12 of the report.

774,000 tickets sold to international visitors.
1,036,000 tickets sold to domestic visitors.
668,00 tickets sold to local fans.


So from that I take it that domestic visitors are from outside the part of the UK that the game is on (they have a breakdown by venue)

So yes for Ireland international visitors would include the above domestic visitors.

But there is no guarantee the numbers would be as big.
It's much easier to get from Colchester to MK than it is to get from Colchester to Castlebar.

There's no requirement for them to be as big. We're proposing to sell 20% less tickets than England did.

You also have to take 'local fans' into the equation. That's 1.7 million UK (and possibly Irish) based tickets sold. We won't have quite those numbers.

From the above, it looks like overseas punters bought on average two tickets each. If those numbers hold up, that's about two fifths of our available tickets leaving 1.25 million to be sold in the UK and Ireland. Irish matches will most probably be held in the biggest venues. Certainly Lansdowne and probably at least one in Croker. That would add up to almost 300k tickets alone which would mainly go to Irish supporters. The knock-out stages are pretty much always sellouts, so that accounts for over 500k tickets assuming that Croke Park will host the semis and the final and the quarters are shared equally between Croke Park and Lansdowne Road.

Effectively 1.2 million tickets have to be sold for pool matches. There are 36 of those excluding Ireland. That's an average of 33k per pool match. Big sellers will be matches involving the home nations, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa and possibly also Argentina and Japan.

It's hardly wishful thinking to expect at least 70% take up on those matches. Especially with a ceiling of 33k per match.

molloyjh

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But there is no guarantee the numbers would be as big.

And there's nothing to guarantee it won't be as big. In fact there's nothing to guarantee that it won't be even bigger. There's nothing to guarantee that the IRFU will pull their bid in 5 mins time. There's nothing to guarantee that there won't be some massive tidal wave coming that'll wipe Ireland off the map in the meantime. There's nothing to guarantee that an asteroid won't threaten to wipe all life off the face of the Earth and Bruce Willis won't be around to save us.

Anyone can play that "there's no guarantee card" on almost anything. So what? If you want guarantees to be convinced then you can't be convinced. But of course you, I, all the other posters here and the man on the feckin' moon all know that.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It's much easier to get from Colchester to MK than it is to get from Colchester to Castlebar.

It's also easier to get from D4 to Castlebar than get from D4 to MK. Again, so what?

CMOTDibbler

Just noticed that in 2015, Ireland's pool games sold at 96% capacity and totalled 282k attendance out of a possible 294k. The highest attendance was in Wembley (90k capacity) against Romania with 99% selling. We might have to have all our pool games in Corke Park.

ArmaniJeanss

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Just noticed that in 2015, Ireland's pool games sold at 96% capacity and totalled 282k attendance out of a possible 294k. The highest attendance was in Wembley (90k capacity) against Romania with 99% selling. We might have to have all our pool games in Corke Park.

2 in Croke Pk inc opening game, 1 in Lansdowne and 1 in Belfast imo.
Have to have one in 'home of Irish rugby' and I think one in Belfast looks good for the inclusivity of the bid.

Same way as England saw the need to take one of their games to Manchester even though Twickenham would have sold out.

Buer

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

2 in Croke Pk inc opening game, 1 in Lansdowne and 1 in Belfast imo.
Have to have one in 'home of Irish rugby' and I think one in Belfast looks good for the inclusivity of the bid.

They should have one in a smaller stadium regardless. The RWC at home isn't a guarantee that the games sell out unless priced very keenly of which there's no guarantee.

Wales were allowed play a number of games in Cardiff in 2007 and they didn't break 40k in two matches.

RWC or not, 80k people are not going to watch Ireland play Uruguay. A game like that should go to Belfast or Limerick.

Podge_irl

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The knock-out stages are pretty much always sellouts, so that accounts for over 500k tickets assuming that Croke Park will host the semis and the final and the quarters are shared equally between Croke Park and Lansdowne Road.

I have no issue with your general point, but there is no way all 4 quarters will be in Dublin on the same weekend. It's the one big drawback of the bid actually - that the two best stadiums are in the same smallish city.

Interested Observer

Buer wrote: »

They should have one in a smaller stadium regardless. The RWC at home isn't a guarantee that the games sell out unless priced very keenly of which there's no guarantee.

Wales were allowed play a number of games in Cardiff in 2007 and they didn't break 40k in two matches.

RWC or not, 80k people are not going to watch Ireland play Uruguay. A game like that should go to Belfast or Limerick.

We're not Wales. 50k just watched us play Canada. If Ireland won the bid playing in anything smaller than Lansdowne would be out of the question imo.

Podge_irl

Interested Observer wrote: »

We're not Wales. 50k just watched us play Canada. If Ireland won the bid playing in anything smaller than Lansdowne would be out of the question imo.

Can't imagine the other teams would find it overly amusing if Ireland never had to play outside Dublin.

Buer

Interested Observer wrote: »

We're not Wales. 50k just watched us play Canada. If Ireland won the bid playing in anything smaller than Lansdowne would be out of the question imo.

That was on the back of the NZ game. We've struggled to fill the stadium for a number of games in the past. We only had 30k against Scotland in the RWC warm ups and 40k against Georgia the previous autumn.

If we're going to have all of our games in Dublin, I believe we'll have to price them shrewdly if we end up against a minnow such as Uruguay or Namibia who will bring no support.

thomond2006

I will be shocked if one of the Ireland pool matches isn't held in Casement Park. I'm sure the NI executive requested something like this in return for their support. Perhaps you could put Ireland vs a minnow in Cork also?

There is no way that any of the Ireland games are played in anything smaller than 40 - 50k. Quite simply, it would be a massive waste of 10's of thousands of tickets as we would fill croke park each and every week for our pool games during a RWC. It would make much more sense to give a chunk of change to Ulster Rugby to compensate for the lack of matches there.

thomond2006

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is no way that any of the Ireland games are played in anything smaller than 40 - 50k. Quite simply, it would be a massive waste of 10's of thousands of tickets as we would fill croke park each and every week for our pool games during a RWC. It would make much more sense to give a chunk of change to Ulster Rugby to compensate for the lack of matches there.

No team has ever played all their pool matches in one city. One game at least will need to be moved.

nice_guy80

The general public are not going to buy tickets to see Georgia v Uruguay etc

Interested Observer

Buer wrote: »

That was on the back of the NZ game. We've struggled to fill the stadium for a number of games in the past. We only had 30k against Scotland in the RWC warm ups and 40k against Georgia the previous autumn.

If we're going to have all of our games in Dublin, I believe we'll have to price them shrewdly if we end up against a minnow such as Uruguay or Namibia who will bring no support.

This will be on the back of it being a RWC hosted in Ireland. Demand will be there. I'm not sure what RWC warm ups have to do with it.

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

The general public are not going to buy tickets to see Georgia v Uruguay etc

If it's on near me I'd go and I'd take my kids. Would be great craic!

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no way that any of the Ireland games are played in anything smaller than 40 - 50k. Quite simply, it would be a massive waste of 10's of thousands of tickets as we would fill croke park each and every week for our pool games during a RWC. It would make much more sense to give a chunk of change to Ulster Rugby to compensate for the lack of matches there.

Casement will be 40k.

I also think you're overly optimistic on selling out Croke Park for every game (depending on opposition). We didn't have a full house for Italy in the 6N when we were there and tickets were being given away to anyone and everyone.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

No team has ever played all their pool matches in one city. One game at least will need to be moved.

I'm more suggesting that a game with Ireland would not go to Thomond or Ravenspan. I'm not saying they all need to be in Dublin - but anything outside of Dublin would need to be one of the larger stadiums available.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Casement will be 40k.

I also think you're overly optimistic on selling out Croke Park for every game (depending on opposition). We didn't have a full house for Italy in the 6N when we were there and tickets were being given away to anyone and everyone.

True but then we had 90k in the UK for Romania. RWC is a different beast to the six nations as was very clear in the RWC in London.

The Lost Sheep

nice_guy80 wrote: »

The general public are not going to buy tickets to see Georgia v Uruguay etc

if priced right you would get a lot who would
Doing deals with clubs who bring 20/40 kids etc