FIREBIRD C26 BLACK SMOKE

churchtown2012

Hi folks fired up my boiler yesterday for the first time this year and it started with no problems until i went outside and noticed black smoke coming from the flue. I turned it off straight away to investigate what the problem was. I checked the filter on the oil line and it seemed it good condition. I then checked the photo cell and it was pretty black so I cleaned it and put it back. I tried to start the burner up again but had no joy it just kept on trying to ignite. So today I got a new photo cell installed and burner fired up but yet again black smoke. Any ideas whats causing this black smoke.
It has a riello RDB 2.2 burner

Wearb

For a start, it is very unlikely that you needed a new photo cell. Black smoke is usually caused by insufficient air for the amount of fuel being delivered. Check the air intake for blockages and the flue terminal also. If not any of those, it needs to be opened up and properly inspected.

shane0007

You need a service call.

churchtown2012

Thanks Wearb the flue pipe seems to be a dual system i.e expels condensation and a air intake... i have inspected for blockages but found nothing

jimf

shane0007 wrote: »

You need a service call.

+1 and to somebody who knows how to solve the enviromax issues

Wearb

churchtown2012 wrote: »

Thanks Wearb the flue pipe seems to be a dual system i.e expels condensation and a air intake... i have inspected for blockages but found nothing

Then it does need a service call as suggested above. Don't think of that as a bad thing as it will most likely save you the cost of the call before heating season is over due to increased efficiency after a PROPER service.

shane0007

100% you won't sort a HE Firebird sooting issue without a service call. The rear flue way will also require cleaning as it is extremely narrow & will be totally affected by sooting.

You will also require a service engineer who is experienced on sorting Environmax boiler issues. Soot & condensing boilers don't mix well.

jimf

don't you just love the first call on a Monday being an enviromax

gets you into the swing of things for the week

shane0007

I had to take a power washer to one before to clear the rear flue way. You can watch the crap coming out the condensate drain.

churchtown2012

how much can is a service likely to cost...i will arrange one on monday

churchtown2012

there is no soot in the flue at all...as i said it has'nt been used this year at all and was newly installed last year which got very little use..and it had not been left running long before i noticed the smoke

shane0007

Minimum €100 for a sooty Environmax.
Just make sure they are used to sorting Environmax issues otherwise you will be paying again in the not so distant future or the next windy spell.

jimf

churchtown2012 wrote: »

how much can is a service likely to cost...i will arrange one on monday

100 euro would be about the norm unless your in scudo territory no limit down there lol :eek:

shane0007

churchtown2012 wrote: »

there is no soot in the flue at all...as i said it has'nt been used this year at all and was newly installed last year which got very little use..and it had not been left running long before i noticed the smoke

Smoke = Carbon
Carbon = Soot
So smoke you can see coming out of the flue rarely passes through the flue without leaving some of itself behind on its way!

jimf

theres a very informative post on boards shane 0007 and dgobs were the main contributors its well worth a read a lot of issues with these boilers that you need to be aware of

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

theres a very informative post on boards shane007 and dgobs were the main contributors its well worth a read a lot of issues with these boilers that you need to be aware of

Got a link jimf. I found it very useful.

jimf

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Got a link jimf. I found it very useful.

no dtp but im sure shane will be able to find for us

seen as he can find billy in his speedos

Dtp1979

Ok Shane we're waiting!

jimf

how dare he keep us waiting whats he trying to have a social life or something ???

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

how dare he keep us waiting whats he trying to have a social life or something ???

I know. The fcukin cheek. I hope he puts down his pint immediately and goes back through 8 months of boards posts to find it for us!

anthonyos

does any one know were I can get replacement paper and the smoke chart for smoke pumps

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I know. The fcukin cheek. I hope he puts down his pint immediately and goes back through 8 months of boards posts to find it for us!

Dtp1979

anthonyos wrote: »

does any one know were I can get replacement paper and the smoke chart for smoke pumps

Try Charlie at Anton. If he doesn't have it I'm sure he'll point you in the right direction

anthonyos

will try him I have asked in hevac hm and other places nobody has them thanks ..what do they cost ???I have the pump but lost the chart and paper

jimf

on hwos web site for about a tenner

anthonyos

never seen that website before just had a look

jimf

anthonyos wrote: »

never seen that website before just had a look

hard to beat their prices

churchtown2012

Ok lads just notice something that i never cop before....had the extension external walls plastered during the summer(where the flue exists the house) and the flue is pointing downwards with the 3 holes facing the sky...now im either going mad but before i had the plastering done im sure the flue pointed upward with the 3 holes underneath....please tell me im not losing it...

shane0007

Flue must be pointing upwards but that wouldn't make it soot. Plaster maybe blocking air ports.

churchtown2012

shane0007 wrote: »

Flue must be pointing upwards but that wouldn't make it soot. Plaster maybe blocking air ports.

Thanks shane0007 thought i was losing the plot ...think the plaster(father in law) may have taking it off to make his life easier...i will check it tomorrow and change it around before i get it serviced

Dtp1979

anthonyos wrote: »

will try him I have asked in hevac hm and other places nobody has them thanks ..what do they cost ???I have the pump but lost the chart and paper

Did you try B E S or HWOS in the uk?

agusta

Hi,The flue points upwards to avoid the condesate liquid driping from the flue.It would seem more obvious to some people to have it pointing down.But it would not cause the black smoke if pointing down as shane said.My opinion would be that the plaster removed it to make life easier and get a clear run on that wall,quite normal.what might have happened is that the flue "air intake and exaust" werent covered with e.g plastic and your father in law plastered the wall and then when finished cleaned the excess mortor from the flue.There is a good chance when cleaning the flue after the wall was plastered, mortor got pushed down the air intake.I would remove the flexible hose from the right hand side of burner and the flue by opening the jubliee clips and look for traces of mortor,also look into the air intake of the burner after the flexible hose is removed

agusta

When the flue end was removed to plaster the walls, it would have been left off for few days so it possible for a leaf or a bit of insulation to get into the air intake when the flue end and flue guard were off.It may not be mortar

churchtown2012

Another thought i was getting kero from the garage pump to top the tank up last summer and i may have used a condaminated diesel drum with a trace of diesel in it...would thos poss problems?????

agusta

churchtown2012 wrote: »

Another thought i was getting kero from the garage pump to top the tank up last summer and i may have used a condaminated diesel drum with a trace of diesel in it...would thos poss problems?????

possible but i would still think its an air intake problem as wearb said in post 2,The flue end and the guard being off would be the commom denominator.did you remove the flexible hose from the right hand side of the burner and see did you see anything inside the burner where you took off the flexible hose..

churchtown2012

agusta wrote: »

possible but i would still think its an air intake problem as wearb said in post 2,The flue end and the guard being off would be the commom denominator.did you remove the flexible hose from the right hand side of the burner and see did you see anything inside the burner where you took off the flexible hose..

I did agusta all is clear no debris and no traces of soot anywhere...could the flue be letting in water if it was the wrong way around i.e rain water

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

100% you won't sort a HE Firebird sooting issue without a service call. The rear flue way will also require cleaning as it is extremely narrow & will be totally affected by sooting.

You will also require a service engineer who is experienced on sorting Environmax boiler issues. Soot & condensing boilers don't mix well.

I've a lot of experience with SOOTING ENVIROMAX (2 effin much)

scudo2

anthonyos wrote: »

will try him I have asked in hevac hm and other places nobody has them thanks ..what do they cost ???I have the pump but lost the chart and paper

I get my paper off Heatmerchants or Hamilton gas products.

You don't need a smoke chart if you can see.

Black---grey---lighter grey- --tweeny weeney bit grey- --clear = PERFECT

Yellow = to much air, not all oil vapour is burning, risk of high level of co.

scudo2

Mass done you a lot of good today I see. Love thy neighbour an all that.!!

churchtown2012

I think you will find that the advise i have been giving is to get a plumber in...which i intend to do.....

jimf

and a happy sunday to you too nuzzer hope you need assistance sometime we will all be happy to help you out im sure

esox28

Try to understand this then come back to us!


http://legrandclub.rds.ca/profils/299479/posts/105332/public

churchtown2012

jimf wrote: »

and a happy sunday to you too nuzzer hope you need assistance sometime we will all be happy to help you out im sure

He sounds like a jack of all trades and a master of none.....thanks for all the replies( bar 1 )

jimf

esox28 wrote: »

Try to understand this then come back to us!


http://legrandclub.rds.ca/profils/299479/posts/105332/public

good one esox

shane0007

Ah now Nuzzer, you know we are only reading all this from a book so it takes a bit longer. Have some patience. We can't all be as good with words as you.

jimf

shane0007 wrote: »

Ah now Nuzzer, you know we are only reading all this from a book so it takes a bit longer. Have some patience. We can't all be as good with words as you.

you and your memory ????

crock!

Its people like nuzzer that keeps us busy from his lack of knowledge and ability to learn.
Only yesturday i meet a fb c35 running on 7 bar with a .60 80s.
500 litres gone in two months.
Yes the guys here read books and manuals all the time.
THATS WHY THERE ON TOP OF THERE GAME.

Dtp1979

If memory serves me correct, that nuzzer let a few rants like that months ago then was banned

jimf

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If memory serves me correct, that nuzzer let a few rants like that months ago then was banned

had a gawk back on his posts nice chap alright I thought for a while twas qbe/williewinkie back again but its a bit early in the day for him

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

had a gawk back on his posts nice chap alright I thought for a while twas qbe/williewinkie back again but its a bit early in the day for him

I didn't even look back through his posts. I remembered the posts and how disturbed he was

scudo2

Churchtown 2012 still needs smokey boiler fixed in the Mullingar/Longford area.
Anybody nearby to help?