Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Unfair eviction

Options
  • 01-11-2013 1:22am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 19


    I've been living in a flat in Dun Laoghaire for 2 years. I'm a considerate neighbour, have never had parties, have only had 2 friends in the 2 years visit my place, each on separate occasions and when I listen to music, watch movies or anything like that, I always wear headphones. There's virtually no noise coming from my place.

    Some of my neighbours are very noisy a lot of the time and occasionally I have had to knock into them to ask them to keep the noise down late at night. One time I knocked into one guy and asked him to keep the noise down, he was very apologetic and friendly about it, shaking my hand and hugged for an uncomfortably long time? I went back to my place and the noise started again. I've since had to ask him to keep the noise down a few more times and each time he's gotten angry at me. A lady upstairs is constantly banging who knows what on the floor. I've had to knock into her too and she won't open the door to me, won't acknowledge she's been making noise and then threatens to call the Gardai.

    I have never received any complaints from neighbours, never had anyone knock to my door to ask me to keep noise down and all of a sudden in August, I got a letter saying it's my first and final warning of getting evicted due to anti-social behaviour. 3 weeks ago I then got an eviction letter saying I have 28 days to leave the premises. I've attached the letters to this post.

    I have in the past myself sent letters of complaint to the letting agency due to noisy neighbours, appliances not working, faulty electrical sockets etc. They have all been ignored and I only got any response after phoning the agency. I've asked to speak to the landlord and been refused his contact details and when I enquired about my neighbours making complaints about me, I asked if I could then make complaints about them due to the noise they make in comparison to me. The agency said they wouldn't allow me to make a complaint?

    I'm half thinking that the agency may have made up the story of my neighbours making complaints and that it may just be them trying to get rid of me.

    Just to add, I lost my job recently and I'm on rent allowance and it will be near impossible to find a new apartment, even if I had a job.

    As you can see from the letters the agency sent, there's a lot of errors such as the dates, address and name amongst all the grammatical errors. There's also mention of the 8th of January for some reason?

    If anyone can lend some advice as to where I may stand it would be appreciated.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭emeldc


    Well Rorie, I suppose we only have your side of the story so you have to be taken on your word. But the bottom line is, if you dont want to leave, then you don't have to. No matter what they issue you with, they will need a court order to evict you and believe me that takes a lot longer than 28 days. You can leave of your own accord but as you say it may be difficult to find another appartment now that you are on rent allowance. Negociate with the agent and see what can be done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    An agent cant evict you,
    Assuming there is no anti social behaviour

    Maybe they are trying get the property back? for someone else.
    Who made these accusations, how do they know it was you and not someone else? wheres the proof,
    Are these people willing to take a PRTB case
    Contact threshold


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭teddansonswig


    rough situation , hang in there!
    just wondering did you chase up the first notice? sounds like you didnt deserve it (i guess).
    If I received it I would be presuming it was ment for another tenant and get it sorted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Rorie


    emeldc wrote: »
    Negociate with the agent and see what can be done.

    Thanks emeldc, I will try.
    cerastes wrote: »
    Who made these accusations, how do they know it was you and not someone else? wheres the proof,
    Are these people willing to take a PRTB case
    Contact threshold

    I don't know who made the accusations, but yeah there's no proof it was me and not someone else. I've made an appeal to the PRTB and they have taken the case.
    did you chase up the first notice?

    I called the agency as soon as I got the first letter and they told me that I was the only one getting complaints, which is demonstrably wrong, and that I was having "too many parties", which is also wrong. The agency didn't even attempt to get my side of the story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭teddansonswig


    sit back and chill, if you can! dont think your moving out any time soon :)
    maby write letters/email from now on for traceability.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Rorie


    sit back and chill, if you can! dont think your moving out any time soon :)
    maby write letters/email from now on for traceability.

    Thanks dude, that's some good advice!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    There must be more to this than meets the eye.

    How can complaints about and letters for anti social behavoir issue if the tenant is perfectly behaved?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,516 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    I'm guessing your living in a converted house. By their nature and design they are not going to be sound proof and noise will transfer between apartments.

    From the sound of it you have been harassing your neighbours which can be deemed as unsocial behaviour.


    It sounds like the apartment isn't suited to you as the noise will not go away and your going to keep on harassing your neighbours. So it really makes sense that you move to someone more suited to your needs


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    OP you should have received 2 verbal warning before a written warning. In my opinion the issue is that you are now on welfare and they guess they will have less rent or issues collecting it. I have a feeling they probably will record the conversation on the number they left on the letter. So I would try record it too and ask them to explain why you were giving more warnings? What actually did you do on those dates, that they are calling anti-social behaviour?

    Try and resolve it yourself as the PRTB are extremely slow to deals with issues like this. But I think the real issue is the fact you are welfare. Or your neighbours are making up BS to get you evicted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Rorie


    There must be more to this than meets the eye.

    How can complaints about and letters for anti social behavoir issue if the tenant is perfectly behaved?
    I don't know but my suspicion is that the noisy neighbours don't like being asked by me to keep the noise down and have made false complaints about me for malicious reasons.
    ted1 wrote: »
    I'm guessing your living in a converted house. By their nature and design they are not going to be sound proof and noise will transfer between apartments.

    From the sound of it you have been harassing your neighbours which can be deemed as unsocial behaviour.
    Yes it is a converted house and I understand that they are not soundproof. I've lived in several of these types of houses over the years and have never had to put up with this level of noise. If I am being evicted for being noisy then they should be evicted too. Also I am not harassing anybody, I simply asked them politely to keep the noise down on 3 or 4 occasions. IF I am being evicted for "harassment" then that should be the reason given, but it isn't.
    hfallada wrote: »
    OP you should have received 2 verbal warning before a written warning. In my opinion the issue is that you are now on welfare and they guess they will have less rent or issues collecting it. I have a feeling they probably will record the conversation on the number they left on the letter. So I would try record it too and ask them to explain why you were giving more warnings? What actually did you do on those dates, that they are calling anti-social behaviour?

    Try and resolve it yourself as the PRTB are extremely slow to deals with issues like this. But I think the real issue is the fact you are welfare. Or your neighbours are making up BS to get you evicted.
    Are you sure about the 2 verbal warnings? I know that's the case in a job situation, but does that also apply to this situation? I'm not sure they have an issue with rent. I've been on welfare for 10 months and have paid the rent every month, albeit a few days late, but I explained that to them in an email and said if paying the rent a bit late is a problem I will try to rectify that but they never responded. The anti-social behaviour I am accused of is shouting and having parties, both of which are totally untrue. I think, as you said, the neighbours are making up BS to get me evicted.


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5 Lineball


    Rorie wrote: »
    I have in the past myself sent letters of complaint to the letting agency due to noisy neighbours, appliances not working, faulty electrical sockets etc. .

    That all adds up to one thing.
    Troublemaker!
    You will need to be on the ball for your PRTB complaint.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    At this point Id say sit back and let the PRTB deal with it. If the landlord wants to evict on grounds of antisocial behaviour then they are going to need a mountain of evidence to back up that claim. In the meantime, there is absolutely nothing that they can do to get you out of the property, and if they try anything then you can take another case against them. Keep paying your rent and wait for the PRTB to have their say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    Rorie wrote: »
    I don't know but my suspicion is that the noisy neighbours don't like being asked by me to keep the noise down and have made false complaints about me for malicious reasons.


    Yes it is a converted house and I understand that they are not soundproof. I've lived in several of these types of houses over the years and have never had to put up with this level of noise. If I am being evicted for being noisy then they should be evicted too. Also I am not harassing anybody, I simply asked them politely to keep the noise down on 3 or 4 occasions. IF I am being evicted for "harassment" then that should be the reason given, but it isn't.


    Are you sure about the 2 verbal warnings? I know that's the case in a job situation, but does that also apply to this situation? I'm not sure they have an issue with rent. I've been on welfare for 10 months and have paid the rent every month, albeit a few days late, but I explained that to them in an email and said if paying the rent a bit late is a problem I will try to rectify that but they never responded. The anti-social behaviour I am accused of is shouting and having parties, both of which are totally untrue. I think, as you said, the neighbours are making up BS to get me evicted.
    2 written warning are required when there is an eviction due to rent arrears and there is a Part 4 tenancy. With a Fixed term lease, only one warning letter is required if the tenancy is in excess of 6 months.

    Now that you have lodged a claim with the PRTB, sit back and wait. The agents will have to prove that you were anti-social. Have you kept any records of times and dates of the times you have had to complain to other tenants due to their noise - would be very useful for your defence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,015 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    Rorie wrote: »
    Just to add, I lost my job recently and I'm on rent allowance and it will be near impossible to find a new apartment, even if I had a job.

    I reckon the landlord may not be declaring their rental income to the taxman, and since you are now on rent allowance that is exposing it.

    You didn't do yourself any favours giving grief to the neighbours and complaining to the management company, but I reckon the rent allowance issue was the nail in the coffin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    If a person is threatening to call the police on you they see you as being unreasonable. That would certainly be on the lines of anti-social behaviour. Effectively you are calling into other residents and complaining quite regularly so I can see how that would be seen as anti-social.

    They can't kick you out easily but why do you want to stay. It sounds like you have nothing but hassle. I get it is difficult to get a place but keep looking.

    They don't have to provide proof until in court.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭teddansonswig


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    If a person is threatening to call the police on you they see you as being unreasonable.

    He has explained why he needs to stay. the rent allowance!

    No one else has mentioned police here but you Ray.

    I would find it hard to believe knocking into a neighbour 3/4 times as being antisocial. The fact that someone needed to knock to point out the other tenants anti social behaviour , cant be seen as antisocial behaviour!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    He has explained why he needs to stay. the rent allowance!

    No one else has mentioned police here but you Ray.

    I would find it hard to believe knocking into a neighbour 3/4 times as being antisocial. The fact that someone needed to knock to point out the other tenants anti social behaviour , cant be seen as antisocial behaviour!

    Rorie wrote: »
    I've had to knock into her too and she won't open the door to me, won't acknowledge she's been making noise and then threatens to call the Gardai.
    .

    Want to take that back? Or is it a pedantic thing about calling them Gardaí and not police:p


    I do get the rent allowance but obviously he can look and find a place that does take it seeing as he is not getting on with the other tenants and also unhappy with this and the general service. The agents also want him out. So there is at least two tenants who want him out and the agent agrees


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭teddansonswig


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Want to take that back? Or is it a pedantic thing about calling them Gardaí and not police:p


    I do get the rent allowance but obviously he can look and find a place that does take it seeing as he is not getting on with the other tenants and also unhappy with this and the general service. The agents also want him out. So there is at least two tenants who want him out and the agent agrees

    apologies :) i did search but missed the first post.....

    its near impossible to find somewhere that will accept, lets be honest.
    OP I do hope you have at least one tenant in the building your on friendly terms with!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    apologies :) i did search but missed the first post.....

    its near impossible to find somewhere that will accept, lets be honest.
    OP I do hope you have at least one tenant in the building your on friendly terms with!
    I agree it is difficult but not impossible. Ultimately the OP has upset other people who aren't upsetting other tenants. The fact it is difficult to find a LL who will accept RA is of no concern of the agents. By definition he is being anti-social if nobody else has a problem in the property other than with him. Even his own description of events are damning IMHO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭teddansonswig


    so.. someone who doesnt have partys, complains about neighbours party and by that act, is committing a breach of his tenancy by being antisocial.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭the world wonders


    odds_on wrote: »
    Now that you have lodged a claim with the PRTB, sit back and wait. The agents will have to prove that you were anti-social. Have you kept any records of times and dates of the times you have had to complain to other tenants due to their noise - would be very useful for your defence.
    This is good advice. Evicting someone for anti-social behaviour is not easy even in the worst of cases, and the idea that you can be evicted for knocking on your neighbour's door asking them to keep the noise down is ludicrous.

    It is especially revealing that the warning letters contain no specific allegations of dates/times/incidents/behaviour that would be expected in a case like this -- see this PRTB sample notice of anti-social behaviour . If the facts are as you have given them, then you have nothing to worry about.

    Also you should look into reporting the letting agent to the Property Services Regulator for unprofessional behaviour. Check the register to see if they are properly licensed -- if not they are guilty of a criminal offence and could face up to five years in jail.
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    By definition he is being anti-social if nobody else has a problem in the property other than with him.
    So if all my neighbours are drug dealers, then I'm the one guilty of anti-social behaviour if I complain about them? :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    so.. someone who doesnt have partys, complains about neighbours party and by that act, is committing a breach of his tenancy by being antisocial.
    The OP has not stated he complained about parties, just about the noise levels in 2 units (several times) who share the same building. Reading between the lines, I am seeing someone who is unsuitable to multi unit properties, and might be better suited to a stand alone property.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    MouseTail wrote: »
    The OP has not stated he complained about parties, just about the noise levels in 2 units (several times) who share the same building. Reading between the lines, I am seeing someone who is unsuitable to multi unit properties, and might be better suited to a stand alone property.

    Maybe,
    But that doesnt make it right that the OP should be threatened with eviction
    I'd like to see the complaints, what the issue was, when etc
    The OP has a right to know when the accusations relate to,
    while I am firmly against anti social behaviour, even a person committing or accused of committing that should have an opportunity to defend against it, opposed to the threats to evict.

    The agent should be taking the tenant to the PRTB in that case, not telling the tenant they have recourse through the PRTB


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Rorie


    Also you should look into reporting the letting agent to the Property Services Regulator for unprofessional behaviour. Check the register to see if they are properly licensed -- if not they are guilty of a criminal offence and could face up to five years in jail.

    The agency is not listed. Can they seriously go to jail for that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭emeldc


    Rorie wrote: »
    The agency is not listed. Can they seriously go to jail for that?

    Same prison as all the bankers. Getting a bit carried away with all this me thinks.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    OP it sounds like you need to cop on a bit, were the neighbours playing loud music or what were they doing? Or could you just hear the faint noise of a tv or people talking? Also knocking on an old women's door for making a bit of noise? Was this going on for hours or just 10 mins or something? Sounds like you need a bucket of cop on. Do you expect apartments to be totally silent or something, no wonder the letting agency wants you gone


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    I have to say I agree with creep on this one. the lines here are wide open to be read between and it sounds like you're 'one of them' neighbors.

    Being deadly serious, an EA does not issue an antisocial eviction lightly. It doesn't get done by mistake or a trivial misunderstanding.

    You've pissed someone or someones off enough that they are actively trying to be rid of you...Take a long hard look in the mirror and realize this is not unfair, this is something you have undoubtedly brought upon yourself..

    All that said lots of good advice in this thread, they really cant just kick you out, but that also exactly why I said such actions are not taken lightly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Rorie


    Ok, let me be clear - The noise I have to put up with is way beyond the norm. I'm not talking about faintly hearing talking or a tv through the wall/ceiling/floor. I'm talking about things like shouting in the hallway at 5am for half an hour, slamming doors, having loud parties in the middle of the week til 4am and then starting up again the next morning, banging on the floor for hours on end day after day. I'm willing to put up with a certain amount of background noise, but this is ridiculous.
    On the one hand I am expected to put up with this noise and on the other I am being evicted for noise that I didn't make.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Rorie wrote: »
    Ok, let me be clear - The noise I have to put up with is way beyond the norm. I'm not talking about faintly hearing talking or a tv through the wall/ceiling/floor. I'm talking about things like shouting in the hallway at 5am for half an hour, slamming doors, having loud parties in the middle of the week til 4am and then starting up again the next morning, banging on the floor for hours on end day after day. I'm willing to put up with a certain amount of background noise, but this is ridiculous.
    On the one hand I am expected to put up with this noise and on the other I am being evicted for noise that I didn't make.


    The ball is in their court, let them do whatever they want to try to do
    Keep a record of everything, Id decline their offers of evictions, just ignore it, sounds like they are trying to pressure you to leave and get you to do it on your own. Assuming you havent been anti social, then you have at least 2 years left which you can rent at this property.

    If they put a foot out of place you have them by the cojones, which I think you have them by already.
    The first warning, was your first and FINAL warning and they think its NOT open for discussion, you have them by the balls, they cannot issue those kind of determinations. Sounds like they are trying to get the property off you, maybe they know one of the other tenants.
    In the second letter, it seems they will only discuss you leaving, ie depending on when that letter was sent, they dont seem to have given you the required amount of time to leave anyway.

    I would conatct threshold and phone the PRTB, maybe take a case against them for illegal eviction, if you are adamant and we are believing what you have said is correct, then thats what Id do, the first letter I consider threatening.
    What is the disregard for the property, if there is none, take pictures, as that would be a false statement. They say things were explained clearly in the first letter, but I didnt see any explanation, look into your rights, read up the PRTB website, look at the Residential tenancy act 2004 and other publications on the PRTB website.

    Evictions have to be according to the law, Residential tenancies act, just stay cool, keep a record of all communications you have, I dont believe they have issued you a legal eviction notice. Id let them try evict you, then you really have them by the balls.
    Dont communicate anything to them, I dont mean decline to speak to them, just dont give away any information, dont mention boards, advice, illegal eviction or anything yet, talk to threshold and see what they say. If they issue a notice, which they have effectively already, Id take a case against them through PRTB, Dont contact other tenants from now on anyway, keep a note of any events though, or any communications you have had with the management agency or this agency, maybe some other tenant knows the agents or they know they can get more for the property privately now as rents are increasing in places or maybe the landlord is pressuring them to get the property vacated??


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    Ah sorry, from your opening post it seems that way. It's hard to put up with. Will you get your deposit back? Probably better off moving if the noise is that bad


Advertisement