Human greed

catallus · 31-10-2013 9:19pm

love_struck wrote: »

its naïve to think a mary poppins style financial or military power could ever exist

the vast majority of people in Ireland do better than the vast bulk of the worlds population due to capitalism , that's not much compensation for a poor farmer in Africa who cant even access western markets etc but were equality to be fully implemented across the world , the least bad outcome for irish people would be a huge drop in wealth and lifestyle

The West does better because of the historical rape and pillage of the rest of the world.

Thousands die all over the world annually attempting to flock to the developed world, and being stopped by rigorous border controls.

If there was actual justice and equality worldwide, then yes the west would see dramatic drops in wealth and lifestyle.

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2013 9:20pm

catallus wrote: »

If there was actual justice and equality worldwide, then yes the west would see dramatic drops in wealth and lifestyle.

Yeah so fúck equality.

lufties · 31-10-2013 9:21pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What if the Chinese are harder workers and produce better quality then Irish workers?

cant answer that ,but I currently live in china and I'd much prefer Irish doing a job for me.

catallus · 31-10-2013 9:21pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yeah so fúck equality.

Kill it with fire....

sonny jim bob jones · 31-10-2013 9:21pm

catallus wrote: »

Thousands die all over the world annually attempting to flock to the developed world, and being stopped by rigorous border controls.

Maybe these are the greedy ones?

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2013 9:25pm

lufties wrote: »

cant answer that ,but I currently live in china and I'd much prefer Irish doing a job for me.

Why? A product is a product and if a Chinese man can produce that product to a higher quality than an Irish man why would you ever hire the Irish man? Race and nationality shouldn't come into the equation.

lufties · 31-10-2013 9:29pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why?

because in ireland work standards are higher, in my job anyway.

wazky · 31-10-2013 9:30pm

lufties wrote: »

because in ireland work standards are higher, in my job anyway.

Whats your job?

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2013 9:31pm

lufties wrote: »

because in ireland work standards are higher, in my job anyway.

Perhaps in your job but not all. Yet you make a sweeping generalisation that all chinese workers are less productive than Irish workers.

lufties · 31-10-2013 9:31pm

wazky wrote: »

Whats your job?

engineering

wazky · 31-10-2013 9:33pm

lufties wrote: »

engineering

What area of engineering?

lufties · 31-10-2013 9:34pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Perhaps in your job but not all. Yet you make a sweeping generalisation that all chinese workers are less productive than Irish workers.

you are talking through your arse, i said work standards in ireland are better, which they are generally.

wazky · 31-10-2013 9:36pm

lufties wrote: »

you are talking through your arse, i said work standards in ireland are better, which they are generally.

By your own estimation is it?

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2013 9:40pm

lufties wrote: »

you are talking through your arse, i said work standards in ireland are better, which they are generally.

I don't think that's a fair statement. Why would standards be better in Ireland than China?

Also my original question was "What if the Chinese are harder workers and produce better quality then Irish workers?" Note the bolded part, implying conditional tense. Your answer to this was that you would rather have an Irish man working for you. Even if a Chinese man could produce the same product at a higher quality for lower cost!

lufties · 31-10-2013 9:43pm

wazky wrote: »

By your own estimation is it?

would you prefer get your car repaired in china or Ireland, china being much cheaper of course.

Grab All Association · 31-10-2013 9:44pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What if the Chinese are harder workers and produce better quality then Irish workers?

Oh yeah my Sony Vaio I paid over €800 for August must have used it only 3 or 4 times (bought it after the Dell Latitude I had 7 beeps of death see below) the motherboard went in it just four weeks after I bought it. In a battle with the retailer who sold it to me to get it fixed or refunded Made in China

Meanwhile the Sony Vaio I bought in 2011 has never gave me a bit of bother
Made in Japan (Sony must have moved production to China in 2012/13)

The Dell Precision I have for 4 years which was Made in Ireland is still working perfect like it only came out of the box.

The Dell Latitude I bought in 2012 7 beeps of death Made in China

The Nokia N8 I bought in 2011 still working perfect Made in Finland

The Nokia Lumia 800 2012 battery only last an hour in it and sometimes the touch doesn't work Made in China

Don't get me started about the iPhone I had

The Chinese may be faster cheaper workers than the Irish, Japanese and the Finnish but the quality of most electronics built in China is ****.

31-10-2013 9:44pm

As a socialist, my guilty pleasure is enjoying (and agreeing with much of) this speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8y6DJAeolo

wazky · 31-10-2013 9:44pm

lufties wrote: »

would you prefer get your car repaired in china or Ireland, china being much cheaper of course.

Repaired to the same standard?, China of course.

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2013 9:47pm

Chris___ wrote: »

Oh yeah my Sony Vaio I paid over €800 for August must have used it only 3 or 4 times (bought it after the Dell Latitude I had 7 beeps of death see below) the motherboard went in it just four weeks after I bought it. In a battle with the retailer who sold it to me to get it fixed or refunded Made in China

Meanwhile the Sony Vaio I bought in 2011 has never gave me a bit of bother
Made in Japan (Sony must have moved production to China in 2012/13)

The Dell Precision I have for 4 years which was Made in Ireland is still working perfect like it only came out of the box.

The Dell Latitude I bought in 2012 7 beeps of death Made in China

The Nokia N8 I bought in 2011 still working perfect Made in Finland

The Nokia Lumia 800 2012 battery only last an hour in it and sometimes the touch doesn't work Made in China

Don't get me started about the iPhone I had

The Chinese may be faster cheaper workers than the Irish, Japanese and the Finnish but the quality of most electronics built in China is ****.

I have a Lenovo laptop. It has lasted me 4 years, has never broken down, is still fast, and can still run programmes that came out years after it was made. Guess where it was built?

lufties · 31-10-2013 9:51pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't think that's a fair statement. Why would standards be better in Ireland than China?

Also my original question was "What if the Chinese are harder workers and produce better quality then Irish workers?" Note the bolded part, implying conditional tense. Your answer to this was that you would rather have an Irish man working for you. Even if a Chinese man could produce the same product at a higher quality for lower cost!

what guarantee do i have that I'll get the same product. I said work standards that doesn't mean that irish are better than chinese. It simply says that as a western nation we have more industrial experience, In Ireland the health and safety standards are better, communication is easier. the culture is different. The amount of F@ck ups recently in my company due to lack of resources is incredible.

sonny jim bob jones · 31-10-2013 9:54pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I have a Lenovo laptop. It has lasted me 4 years, has never broken down, is still fast, and can still run programmes that came out years after it was made. Guess where it was built?

Finland?

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2013 10:00pm

lufties wrote: »

what guarantee do i have that I'll get the same product. I said work standards that doesn't mean that irish are better than chinese. It simply says that as a western nation we have more industrial experience, In Ireland the health and safety standards are better, communication is easier. the culture is different. The amount of F@ck ups recently in my company due to lack of resources is incredible.

Ireland has more industrial experience than China? For a country that never experienced the industrial revolution I don't see how that can be possible.

You mention a lack of resources within your company but wouldn't you cede there would be less resources if you were paying your workers more? Communication and culture are the companies problems not yours.

Anyway we're going off topic here, the fact is the company is right to move to any country where they can get the lowest price. The beauty of the culture within the large corporations you seem to hate so much is it's strictly meritocratic nature. Discriminatory notions like racism or nationalism are foreign to them. No matter who you are, where you come from or what you look like if you do well and you make the company lots of money you will be rewarded. And that's the way it should be.

hju6 · 31-10-2013 10:08pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No matter who you are, where you come from or what you look like if you do well and you make the company lots of money you will be rewarded. And that's the way it should be.

No it's not.

lufties · 31-10-2013 10:08pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ireland has more industrial experience than China? For a country that never experienced the industrial revolution I don't see how that can be possible.

You mention a lack of resources within your company but wouldn't you cede there would be less resources if you were paying your workers more? Communication and culture are the companies problems not yours.

Anyway we're going off topic here, the fact is the company is right to move to any country where they can get the lowest price. The beauty of the culture within the large corporations you seem to hate so much is it's strictly meritocratic nature. Discriminatory notions like racism or nationalism are foreign to them. No matter who you are, where you come from or what you look like if you do well and you make the company lots of money you will be rewarded. And that's the way it should be.

Rubbish, in my company the locals are worked into the ground and paid peanuts for thanks. Ok and no offence but i'm not gonna debate it anymore with you because the fact that you used beauty and large corporations in the same sentence, means our ideas/values are polar opposite.

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2013 10:09pm

hju6 wrote: »

No it's not.

Yes it is. How would you rather it be done?

wazky · 31-10-2013 10:11pm

lufties wrote: »

Rubbish, in my company the locals are worked into the ground and paid peanuts for thanks. Ok and no offence but i'm not gonna debate it anymore with you because the fact that you used beauty and large corporations in the same sentence, means our ideas/values are polar opposite.

You dislike large corporations ethos, yet you are happily paid them?, not just leave no?

hju6 · 31-10-2013 10:14pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes it is. How would you rather it be done?

Take the greed blinkers off, and realise there infinite resources, a stricken nuclear power plant destroying ocean life,
When the time comes enjoy your "Dollar stew"

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2013 10:15pm

lufties wrote: »

Rubbish, in my company the locals are worked into the ground and paid peanuts for thanks. Ok and no offence but i'm not gonna debate it anymore with you because the fact that you used beauty and large corporations in the same sentence, means our ideas/values are polar opposite.

They're unskilled labourers who are working a job they otherwise wouldn't have. No one is forcing them to stay but they prefer to work as you put it "into the ground" rather than be unemployed.

You seem to be a very negative person. Instead of hating your job embrace it. See how they're providing jobs for people. Actually if you hate your company so much why do you stay with them? I'm serious there are plenty others who would rather have your job.

I know you don't identify as socialist but that's what you come across as.

catallus · 31-10-2013 10:17pm

The funny thing about modern capitalist society is that a large part of the population have been made to think that it is the best way to live : that the immoral chasing of money is the underlying factor in all human endeavour. That it is right that you should be a "customer" instead of a citizen. That communities are based on blind markets. It has been said that the basis of capitalism is that "the most evil of men will do the most evil of things, for the common good" The legacy of the last decade proves that this society will protect the rich at the expense of the poor. Nobody bats an eyelid at the billions being sucked out of the country.

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2013 10:17pm

hju6 wrote: »

Take the greed blinkers off, and realise there infinite resources, a stricken nuclear power plant destroying ocean life,
When the time comes enjoy your "Dollar stew"

You didn't answer my question.
There are not infinite resources.
Fukushima was caused by a natural disaster.
I'm not sure what "dollar stew" is but it sounds yummy.

Human greed

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