Schools for foreign children

byhookorbycrook

Religion was originally taught during the teachers' lunchtime, as schools were ,originally, to be non-denom, way back in 1831.

Moonbeam

Deleted User wrote: »

The Gaelscoil my daughter attends received more than 250 applications for the 64 places, of which 38 went to siblings. The local Educate Together, and Protestant schools would be as popular, the RC school would be the biggest school, but would generally be at the bottom of people's preferences.
So, while in total there are enough places, they are just in the wrong schools

We have the same situation where we live.You need names down in the Gaelscoil by the time they are 6 months old and in the Educate Together before they are 1 but the girls school had spare places and there is also a boys school.

robindch

downthemiddle wrote: »

Religion/Learn Together are not part of the national curriculum. There is a 30 minute period timetabled in ALL schools for religion/learn together on a daily basis.

Well, in fairness, you said that all schools teach the same national curriculum regardless of "ethos". That's not true since ET don't teach that one religion is true and all others are false (as most or all of religious schools do).

downthemiddle wrote: »

[...] there is absolutely no reason why it would impact on the teaching of those subjects.

In theory, no doubt your right. Unfortunately, research shows that the amount of time spent telling kids that their religion is true varies widely amongst schools, and where the amount of time spent is higher, maths and science take a not-unexpected hit. You may disagree with it, but that's what the stats show. Neither does the Department of Education seem very interested in the fact.

robindch

Moonbeam wrote: »

We have the same situation where we live.You need names down in the Gaelscoil by the time they are 6 months old and in the Educate Together before they are 1 but the girls school had spare places and there is also a boys school.

In my experience of four ET schools around Dublin, getting the kids name down as soon as possible after birth seems to be a necessity. Meanwhile, there are church-controlled schools not far away from two of those schools which are advertizing that there are places still available in JI in the weeks running up to the start of the school year.

I don't know whether this pattern is reliably repeated nationally, but where it isn't, I suspect it's probably heading that way slowly, with Dublin leading.

echo beach

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Religion was originally taught during the teachers' lunchtime, as schools were ,originally, to be non-denom, way back in 1831.

Exactly, that is why they were called NATIONAL schools. The day that principle was abandoned was the day all hope of education being controlled by the state, who remained the paymasters, was lost.
I have no objection to denominational education and might well choose it if I had a free choice but that choice isn't available to most parents. I strongly object to children being prepared for the sacraments during school time. This isn't confined to the 30 mins of religion class and often takes up huge chunks of class time. In Catholic school in England it takes place out of school hours and parents are required to 'opt in' and take an active part and pay any extra costs, having already paid school fees.

ProfessorPlum

downthemiddle wrote: »

Sorry I wasn't questioning the veracity of your story and apologise if I give that impression. I was looking for a logical explanation for what happened.
There is a difference when children move schools. Because of the connection between staffing appointments and pupil numbers schools will enrol the maximum number of children they can in Junior Infants. Obviously if none of the children leave then there will be no vacancy down the line. In this situation it appears that a child left the school in one stream to create a vacancy while the other stream you applied for was still full to capacity. This is an impossible situation for schools to legislate for because they cannot predict who will come or go and so creates a situation like yours.
However if you look at the enrolment in that school at Junior Infant level in that school it is more than likely that all children who live in the area, no matter what their background or creed, can be and are accommodated.
If anything there is now a surplus of places in areas such as West Dublin where previously there was a shortage.
I know of one school where the DES built an extra eight classrooms and the school haven't opened them because there is no demand for places. The DES also opened a new school in that area this year, despite being told after consultation with the other schools in the area that there was no demand for places. That school currently has 14 pupils. What a waste of money and resources.

Surely the point still stands - there are not enough school places in my area. Kids are on waiting lists for the two schools in the area. Should people not born in the area not be entitled to be educated locally? As I said it was worse in the previous Dublin area where I lived, with the principal telling me there was no point in even putting names down as there was no place. The next nearest school was several miles away, and well out of the catchment area. I don't dispute that overall there may be enough places in Dublin, but a place in Blanchardstown is no good to me if I live in Booterstown!

Moonbeam

I have a 20km round trip to drive my little one to the 3rd nearest gaelscoil as we only got her name down at 14 months in the one we bought our house beside and the next nearest I reckon did not give us a place as we were honest about them being 2nd choice.
It sucks!
We do not live in Dublin but not too far away.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

Well, in fairness, you said that all schools teach the same national curriculum regardless of "ethos". That's not true since ET don't teach that one religion is true and all others are false (as most or all of religious schools do).

Just throwing my oar in here. Downthemiddle's point is still accurate. The national curriculum consists of 11 subjects. Religion or Ethics or Learn Together or whatever else are not a part of the national curriculum, they form an additional 12th subject. So it is indeed true, all schools teach the same national curriculum (the 11 subjects), regardless of ethos.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

The Gaelscoil my daughter attends received more than 250 applications for the 64 places, of which 38 went to siblings. The local Educate Together, and Protestant schools would be as popular, the RC school would be the biggest school, but would generally be at the bottom of people's preferences.

Same here in Lucan. For the most sought after ET school, you need to have your child down within days of getting the birth cert (there's no sibling policy). And then hope you get lucky. I'm not joking!

I don't know anyone who sent their child to a RC school as a first preference.

downthemiddle

unkel wrote: »

Same here in Lucan. For the most sought after ET school, you need to have your child down within days of getting the birth cert (there's no sibling policy). And then hope you get lucky. I'm not joking!

I don't know anyone who sent their child to a RC school as a first preference.

There are five educate together schools in the Lucan area so there should be plenty of choice for parents who prefer that patron body. Not all the educate together schools in Lucan are over subscribed so surely anyone who wants to send their child to one can do so.

unkel

Did you read my post at all?

I was only talking about one particular ET school...

downthemiddle

unkel wrote: »

Did you read my post at all?

I was only talking about one particular ET school...

So why don't parents want to send their children to the other educate together schools? You mentioned them not wanting to send them to Catholic schools. They don't have to with such a selection of educate together schools.

Victor

downthemiddle wrote: »

So why don't parents want to send their children to the other educate together schools? You mentioned them not wanting to send them to Catholic schools. They don't have to with such a selection of educate together schools.

Distance?

downthemiddle

Victor wrote: »

Distance?

Lucan isn't a big place so that can't be the reason.

Moonbeam

unkel wrote: »

Same here in Lucan. For the most sought after ET school, you need to have your child down within days of getting the birth cert (there's no sibling policy). And then hope you get lucky. I'm not joking!

I don't know anyone who sent their child to a RC school as a first preference.

The 2 Gaelscoils there are the same, you need their names down at birth.

paleo muinteoir

I teach in a multi-denominational Gaelscoil. I'm not sure of exactly how many of these there are but I know we are one of very few such schools. Children are accepted from all religious backgrounds, or indeed of no religion at all. Our 'religion' time in school is based more or less on the Learn Together model of the ET schools.
As it happens, a substantial number of the children are RC and parents wish them to receive the sacraments. A Catholic Committee was set up by interested parents who then arranged for after-school catholic instruction for any children/parents who opt to attend. These sacraments are not even mentioned during normal school hours.

In terms of enrolment, siblings are prioritised. This year, of 69 junior infants, approx. 45 are siblings. After that the twenty-something remaining places went on a first-come-first-served basis (with an age limit too), and those names would have been down from very early on.