Free Climote heating / hot water control

Chet T16

Can anyone tell me if there exists some sort of cheap radiator valve with inbuilt servo? Even a full on/off switching one would be fine.

ted1

tui0hcg wrote: »

Agree its not going to be peanuts but if you go to a hardware store to buy a 2 gang dimmer its going to be €15-€20 for a basic dumb white crappy looking one. Its going to be a case of pick one room at a time to upgrade or pick a few important items to get you going and do it on a staged basis.
BTW - 12 sockets in a bedroom...it must be massive (we have 4 double sockets and 1 tv socket high up on the wall in our master bedroom!!)



I have had no issues - they are cheaper than my previous supplier, sent me a free energy monitor (worth €40-€50) free meter box key sent to me also, the website and meter reading reminders are great, the budget monthly payments option is a much better way to budget, they have been very helpful on any questions I had and the switch was painless
I am not sure where you came up with that statement but I have proof to contradict it anyway



We had 1 zone across 3 floors of rooms and water heating all on 1 switch so it was all or nothing.
Now we have
Zone 1 - all rooms downstairs (open plan kitchen/diner, Lounge, Playroom etc)
Zone 2 - All bedrooms (x4) between 2 upstairs floors
Water Zone - separate water heater (before we had to switch on the heating to get hot water as the electric immersion was broken - plus it cost a fortune to use it)

We had the work done during a kitchen refit but roughly came in at about €550 (we didnt go for a SEAI grant but we would have qualified but the builder was not an approved installer for SEAI and we would have had to wait 6 weeks to get an approved person to complete the work - also the cost was a bit more for the SEAI fit out so we went for the local builder to complete the work)

Sounds like a good price, how did they break out the zones? Can you send on the details of the guys who did the work?

moodrater

Chet T16 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me if there exists some sort of cheap radiator valve with inbuilt servo? Even a full on/off switching one would be fine.

Is it for a diy rasberry pi/arduino job if so china to the rescue,not a radiator valve but could plumb in series http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-DN15-Motorized-Ball-Valve-Two-Way-12V-Electrical-Valve-/251422844520?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item3a89f82668

You'd get a zone valve locally but more expensive and high volage:
http://www.plumbingsupplies.ie/smartzone-pro-15mm-2p-zone-valve-comp.html

You can also get thermoelectric valve actuators.
https://products.ecc.emea.honeywell.com/europe/ecatdata/pg_mt010.html


Otherwise this is the neatest/cheapest I've seen:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAX-iPhone-Android-controlled-WiFi-Digital-Thermostat-LAN-Gateway-/141157575785?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item20dda5ac69

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAX-iPhone-Android-controlled-WiFi-Digital-Thermostat-LAN-Gateway-/141157575785?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item20dda5ac69

Chet T16

moodrater wrote: »

Is it for a diy rasberry pi/arduino job if so china to the rescue,not a radiator valve but could plumb in series http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-DN15-Motorized-Ball-Valve-Two-Way-12V-Electrical-Valve-/251422844520?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item3a89f82668

You'd get a zone valve locally but more expensive and high volage:
http://www.plumbingsupplies.ie/smartzone-pro-15mm-2p-zone-valve-comp.html

You can also get thermoelectric valve actuators.
https://products.ecc.emea.honeywell.com/europe/ecatdata/pg_mt010.html


Otherwise this is the neatest/cheapest I've seen:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAX-iPhone-Android-controlled-WiFi-Digital-Thermostat-LAN-Gateway-/141157575785?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item20dda5ac69

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAX-iPhone-Android-controlled-WiFi-Digital-Thermostat-LAN-Gateway-/141157575785?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item20dda5ac69

This is for my diy system, currently it just controls the boiler on/off but getting individual rad control would add a lot more.

I'm an idiot, i actually have the perfect solution here but it didn't even cross my mind as i was thinking exclusively of heating specific stuff. They're 12v latching solenoids which only need a short pulse to open or close. I wonder if you could use a peltier to build up enough charge on a capacitor to run a wireless receiver and activate the solenoid when needed, that would be interesting.

With regards to your second link what does it mean by thermoelectric in that context? Is it just providing temperature feedback or something cleverer?

moodrater

Chet T16 wrote: »

With regards to your second link what does it mean by thermoelectric in that context? Is it just providing temperature feedback or something cleverer?

If you know how a trv works, this basically just electrically heat the trv head to close the valve.

With regard to a peltier voltage is proportional to the temperature differential. So you'd probably need to actively cool the heatsink a bit like a diy stove eco fan due to the proximity with the radiator. If you had a couple of hundred millivolts with convection you could probably work out a boost regulator to do something useful with it. Some of those aa battery phone chargers work down to very low voltage. There was a simple design in elektor a few years ago for getting power from dead alkaline batteries you might be able to dig it up online think it was called battery miser or similar. a quick google turns up a few designs but most require 0.8v or so.

BionicRasher

ted1 wrote: »

Sounds like a good price, how did they break out the zones? Can you send on the details of the guys who did the work?

We had 1 timer in by the gas boiler and 1 thermostat out in the hallway
They put in a new timer with 3 zone controls (2 for heating and 1 for water) and then wired up a new thermostat up in the master bedroom (this entailed lifting some floorboards and running cables etc. New thermostat on the hot water cylinder also (this is located in hotpress beside master bedroom so not much extra work to run the cables in there)
After that they installed motorized valves 1 for downstairs heating zone (located this near the gas boiler) 1 for upstairs heating zone (located this in the hotpress as that’s where the pipes appear for upstairs)
We had some TRVs already on some rads so that helps but I hope to upgrade to some ‘smart’ TRVs for all the rads around the house.

So now we have Zone 1 downstairs which is controlled off the thermostat in the hall. This fires up heating in the lounge, playroom, hallway and also a plinth heater under the kitchen counter

Zone 2 is upstairs heating (all bedrooms and bathrooms etc) and that’s controlled by the thermostat in the master bedroom

Water heating is on zone 3 essentially

So all are controlled by the master timer next to the gas boiler and can have different time settings for each zone so it means for example we have water turn on at 6am to heat water for a shower if someone wants to use the main bathroom and not the electric shower in the master bedroom for a shower. We have the downstairs heating kick in at 7am and the upstairs heating kicks in at 6.30am to make the place nice and cosy for when we roll out of bed. Prior to this we had to turn on the heating all over the house to be able to get hot water to bath the kids in the evening hence it cost a fortune.

I can PM you the name of the builder and the electrician he had do the work if you want but he is local enough so not sure what area you are in as I don’t imagine he will do too much travelling outside the area he is.

ted1

tui0hcg wrote: »

We had 1 timer in by the gas boiler and 1 thermostat out in the hallway
They put in a new timer with 3 zone controls (2 for heating and 1 for water) and then wired up a new thermostat up in the master bedroom (this entailed lifting some floorboards and running cables etc. New thermostat on the hot water cylinder also (this is located in hotpress beside master bedroom so not much extra work to run the cables in there)
After that they installed motorized valves 1 for downstairs heating zone (located this near the gas boiler) 1 for upstairs heating zone (located this in the hotpress as that’s where the pipes appear for upstairs)
We had some TRVs already on some rads so that helps but I hope to upgrade to some ‘smart’ TRVs for all the rads around the house.

So now we have Zone 1 downstairs which is controlled off the thermostat in the hall. This fires up heating in the lounge, playroom, hallway and also a plinth heater under the kitchen counter

Zone 2 is upstairs heating (all bedrooms and bathrooms etc) and that’s controlled by the thermostat in the master bedroom

Water heating is on zone 3 essentially

So all are controlled by the master timer next to the gas boiler and can have different time settings for each zone so it means for example we have water turn on at 6am to heat water for a shower if someone wants to use the main bathroom and not the electric shower in the master bedroom for a shower. We have the downstairs heating kick in at 7am and the upstairs heating kicks in at 6.30am to make the place nice and cosy for when we roll out of bed. Prior to this we had to turn on the heating all over the house to be able to get hot water to bath the kids in the evening hence it cost a fortune.

I can PM you the name of the builder and the electrician he had do the work if you want but he is local enough so not sure what area you are in as I don’t imagine he will do too much travelling outside the area he is.

thanks. That sound squite similar to my set up. except i only have a time clock with no thermostat.

moodrater

ted1 wrote: »

thanks. That sound squite similar to my set up. except i only have a time clock with no thermostat.

Well worth investing in a programmable thermostat, keep an eye on ebay I only paid about 5 euro for a siemens programmable stat that has PID control like industrial thermostats. If you wiring would be be awkward you can pick up wirelss ones on ebay for around a tenner if your prepared to wait and bid on a few. Avoid the no name chinese ones and drayton.

BionicRasher

moodrater wrote: »

Well worth investing in a programmable thermostat, keep an eye on ebay I only paid about 5 euro for a siemens programmable stat that has PID control like industrial thermostats. If you wiring would be be awkward you can pick up wirelss ones on ebay for around a tenner if your prepared to wait and bid on a few. Avoid the no name chinese ones and drayton.

have you a link to those siemens programmable stats?

moodrater

tui0hcg wrote: »

have you a link to those siemens programmable stats?

Ours is an older model rev12 which we use with a landis and staefa controller. The new models with PID are rev12, rev17, rev24 and are more expensive.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/dsc/i.html?_sop=15&_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=1&_nkw=%28rev12%2C+rev13%2C+rev17%2C+rev24%2C+rev-12%2C+rev-13%2C+rev-17%2C+rev-24%29+siemens&LH_PrefLoc=3&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.X%28rev12%2C+rev13%2C+rev17%2C+rev24%2C+rev-12%2C+rev-13%2C+rev-17%2C+rev-24%29+siemens&_odkw=%28rev12%2C+rev13%2C+rev17%2C+rev24%29+siemens&_osacat=0


https://hit.sbt.siemens.com/HIT/fs_global.aspx?RC=HQEU&lang=en&TITLE=Electronic-room-temperature-controllers-with-time-switch%2c-LCD-and-selection-slider&ACTION=ShowProduct&KEY=BPZ:REV..&MODULE=Catalog

They'll only switch a couple of amps so you use zone valve contacts etc. for higher currents.

BionicRasher

moodrater wrote: »

Ours is an older model rev12 which we use with a landis and staefa controller. The new models with PID are rev12, rev17, rev24 and are more expensive.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/dsc/i.html?_sop=15&_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=1&_nkw=%28rev12%2C+rev13%2C+rev17%2C+rev24%2C+rev-12%2C+rev-13%2C+rev-17%2C+rev-24%29+siemens&LH_PrefLoc=3&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.X%28rev12%2C+rev13%2C+rev17%2C+rev24%2C+rev-12%2C+rev-13%2C+rev-17%2C+rev-24%29+siemens&_odkw=%28rev12%2C+rev13%2C+rev17%2C+rev24%29+siemens&_osacat=0


https://hit.sbt.siemens.com/HIT/fs_global.aspx?RC=HQEU&lang=en&TITLE=Electronic-room-temperature-controllers-with-time-switch%2c-LCD-and-selection-slider&ACTION=ShowProduct&KEY=BPZ:REV..&MODULE=Catalog

They'll only switch a couple of amps so you use zone valve contacts etc. for higher currents.

Ok sorry for Noob questions but these would replace my current room stats (which are these ones) and do what exactly?

moodrater

tui0hcg wrote: »

Ok sorry for Noob questions but these would replace my current room stats (which are these ones) and do what exactly?

If your thermostats is operating zone valves then you can really reducce your heating bills.

For example if you have bedrooms upstairs theres no point inheating the whole house during the night. You set the thermostat to turn heating off from 8 until 5/6pm while everyone is at school, work, you might have it come on at 6.30pm at 17degrees if putting smallies to bed or 11pm if no smallies. Then you can set another temperature say 20degrees from 6.30-7.30 in morning to help with getting out of bed and geting into the shower.

Then you might set the downstairs one to 19 degrees to come on from 5pm until 12pm so the house is warm when you get home and set it for 20degrees from 7-8 for breakfast until.

There is are other modes for example then your home all day or away. If you temporarily want it warmer/colder you just click the plus minus button, it resets next cycle.

When a normal thermostat turns off the heating but the radiators are still hot so the temperature continues to rise past the set point, the thermostat has built in hysteresis which means that it won't turn on the heating again until its dropped a degree or two below the set temperature.This means that say you set the thermostat to 20C the temperature might vary from 18c to 22c. Which is wasteful. Also at 22c people start taking off jumpers then at 18c they complain about the cold cause they're in their t shirt and boost the heating costing more money.

With PID control the thermostat learns to turn off the heating before the set temperature is reached so that the residual heat in the radiators finishes raising the temperature. After a while you'll get a very consistent temperature. Which means you don't have people putting on and taking off clothes and boosting the heating.

brightkane

sorry if this is a nonsence question

I have a timer unit under my Gas boiler that has boost and 3 digital time zones programmable.

Is there a unit I can replace this with that gives me remote access through android or apple to turn the heat on and off and to set up the timer function?

ted1

brightkane wrote: »

sorry if this is a nonsence question

I have a timer unit under my Gas boiler that has boost and 3 digital time zones programmable.

Is there a unit I can replace this with that gives me remote access through android or apple to turn the heat on and off and to set up the timer function?

The Climote does three zones and has this functionality

brightkane

anthing more reasonable and non subscription?

ted1

brightkane wrote: »

anthing more reasonable and non subscription?

maybe wait till the next ideal home show and hop thy are giving them out free again..

cerastes

tui0hcg wrote: »

We had 1 timer in by the gas boiler and 1 thermostat out in the hallway
They put in a new timer with 3 zone controls (2 for heating and 1 for water) and then wired up a new thermostat up in the master bedroom (this entailed lifting some floorboards and running cables etc. New thermostat on the hot water cylinder also (this is located in hotpress beside master bedroom so not much extra work to run the cables in there)
After that they installed motorized valves 1 for downstairs heating zone (located this near the gas boiler) 1 for upstairs heating zone (located this in the hotpress as that’s where the pipes appear for upstairs)
We had some TRVs already on some rads so that helps but I hope to upgrade to some ‘smart’ TRVs for all the rads around the house.

So now we have Zone 1 downstairs which is controlled off the thermostat in the hall. This fires up heating in the lounge, playroom, hallway and also a plinth heater under the kitchen counter

Zone 2 is upstairs heating (all bedrooms and bathrooms etc) and that’s controlled by the thermostat in the master bedroom

Water heating is on zone 3 essentially

So all are controlled by the master timer next to the gas boiler and can have different time settings for each zone so it means for example we have water turn on at 6am to heat water for a shower if someone wants to use the main bathroom and not the electric shower in the master bedroom for a shower. We have the downstairs heating kick in at 7am and the upstairs heating kicks in at 6.30am to make the place nice and cosy for when we roll out of bed. Prior to this we had to turn on the heating all over the house to be able to get hot water to bath the kids in the evening hence it cost a fortune.

I can PM you the name of the builder and the electrician he had do the work if you want but he is local enough so not sure what area you are in as I don’t imagine he will do too much travelling outside the area he is.

So no re-piping work? that would seem to be the biggest thing to do.
Id rezone upstairs/downstairs separately but the work/inconvenience/mess in getting that done puts me off.if I knew were the pipes were under the floor Id have a starting point but i suspect they work their way around between the ceiling/upstairs floor and are tapped off for rads upstairs/downstairs where convenient,

35x

I have been trying to source a Heatmiser TM4 4-zone Programmer but nobody in the area Athlone-Limerick-Galway has them and contacting Irish H/O links you to UK which is somewhat frustrating also. Has anybody installed such a model or know where to get one - other than Amazon or eBay?
The main difference for me is that it has four On/Off options per day whereas the others have three.
I wonder also if there is any good knowledge source for all heating control data incl remote and retrofit options as most personnel in shops seem to have limited advice/information.

moodrater

35x wrote: »

I have been trying to source a Heatmiser TM4 4-zone Programmer but nobody in the area Athlone-Limerick-Galway has them and contacting Irish H/O links you to UK which is somewhat frustrating also. Has anybody installed such a model or know where to get one - other than Amazon or eBay?
The main difference for me is that it has four On/Off options per day whereas the others have three.
I wonder also if there is any good knowledge source for all heating control data incl remote and retrofit options as most personnel in shops seem to have limited advice/information.

Whats wrong with amazon and ebay do you prefer the thrill of the chase

Don't bother with heat merchants in athlone anyway, most apathetic bunch of eejits I ever came across. The last times i was in there once they had no pipe, no olives and couldn't tell me when they might have some. And also told me they never stocked stuff I bought there before. The general air about the place has always been **** off so we can go back to our tea break.

Have you tried searching google for 'heatmiser tm4 site:.ie'

http://premierplastics.ie/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=128
http://www.plumbingproducts.ie/product.php?id_product=2518

Big Nelly

Guys

I got this offer for Free Climote from Airtricity last Friday, little did I realise even thou I signed up for Electric Ireland in November last year it was not processed till December so I have a get out of contract fee of 50 euro

Just wondering do we think this offer will be available in the new year? or should I just pay the 50 euro and suck it up as getting a Climote system for a 50 euro fee