Does it smell like a scam?

rosenrot

I am now about to seal off the deal on a car found on donedeal.ie.
However there is a thing that makes me a little nervous - so far I have met the car owner (it's a private buy, not from a dealer) only at public places and never at his home and then second - he insists on me paying by cash, and not bank transfer. I did a motorcheck report on the car and it didn't come up as stolen, though as far as I know motorcheck.ie doesn't have full access to the Gardai's database of stolen vehicles, so I'm not quite sure how accurate that check is.
The previous owner doesn't look like a bad guy, but who knows?
So I am about to either make the owner sign the logbook at his home address and present me some ID or I won't take the car at all.
So I was wondering if that whole situation smells like a scam and what stuff should I be really double checking when sealing the deal in order not to get tricked?
Any hints, recommendations and so on would be greatly appreciated.

Sadderday

you can't be too careful in a situation like this... trust your gut...

YossiA

Is the price too good to be true?

rosenrot wrote: »

I am now about to seal off the deal on a car found on donedeal.ie.
However there is a thing that makes me a little nervous - so far I have met the car owner (it's a private buy, not from a dealer) only at public places and never at his home and then second - he insists on me paying by cash, and not bank transfer. I did a motorcheck report on the car and it didn't come up as stolen, though as far as I know motorcheck.ie doesn't have full access to the Gardai's database of stolen vehicles, so I'm not quite sure how accurate that check is.
The previous owner doesn't look like a bad guy, but who knows?
So I am about to either make the owner sign the logbook at his home address and present me some ID or I won't take the car at all.
So I was wondering if that whole situation smells like a scam and what stuff should I be really double checking when sealing the deal in order not to get tricked?
Any hints, recommendations and so on would be greatly appreciated.

rosenrot

The price seems about right for the model, the year and the condition of the car, not too good, not too bad, either, though it's more into the lower end of the "right price" range, so that's why I am willing to get the car.

Sadderday

I wouldnt hand over cash in a public place... I'd say if he is decent he will understand your concern... I was always told to go to the home address and get there early to see them leave the house... So said person didn't just park up there.

Peanut2011

TBH it does not sound like a scam. You have a lot of the idiots out there these days and him not wanting to meet you at his house is nothing strange.

All I can say is when it comes to handing over the cash, do that bit at his address or the very least, make sure you have a look at the log book and compare the chassis number on the log book to the one on the car. Look at the log book and make sure it looks legit.

Bring the envelope with the Shannon motor tax office address on it, sign the log book in his presence and have him do his bit and make sure you two go to the post pox and post it out.

Sure, when you have a look at the log book, his details will be listed, so just note the address. If the address is not close by you can always question that. Even better yet, take the picture of the log book before you send it out.

rosenrot

Yep, that's why I was planning on sealing the deal there. I hope that gives me some kind of mind peace.

keithsfleet

Make sure the VIN's all match.

rosenrot

Thank you very much, guys!
I will strictly follow your advice.

ScouseMouse

Mmmm. Just remember the case on crimeline a little while back of the couple who went to collect a car with cash and were robbed by two heads in balaclavas.

Or perhaps the seller is concerned about your bank draft being dodgy.


Maybe meet at a bank or garda station or similar.

corktina

take a couple of buddies with you.

djimi

If you are concerned that the car is stolen or anything like that then give the Gardai a call with the reg number and they will clarify.

I wouldnt be overly concerned about not meeting at his house initially; I wouldnt be over the moon to let a prospective buyer know where my car is parked at night. Once you are going to sign the papers and hand over the cash however this should really be done at his house.

arleitiss

I would never sell my car at my home, as already said: "too many idiots out there" who will come crying in few months time saying: "oh here pal, you sold me a bad yoke, i want me cash back" wouldn't want one of those show up beside house.

rufio777

ask all the right questions, how long have you owned, why are you selling, any problems etc etc and you will know by his responses if hes genuine seller or not. I would be of the same opinion as alot in this thread, wouldnt always meet someone at home, alot of nutcases out there.

Also i always get the seller to write a little receipt out for me before leaving ( more so for the guards if you were stopped on the way home with no tax or that) Basically stating his name (address if hes willing), date, car details and both of you sign it. Might mean nothing but something i have always asked, if hes genuine he wont mind.

MetzgerMeister

Get as much info about the car as you can from the seller including all service history if available. Do a motorcheck on it and if possible, get a mechanic to check it over.

Tiefe Brunnen muss man graben wenn man klares Wasser will

Atlantic Dawn

Verify his idendity matches that on the VLC, do this by checking his passport or driving licence, if this doesn't match walk away as it's not his car to sell. His address should also match that on the VLC. This will insure he sends the VLC in quickly as otherwise any fines will go to him.

Check on motortax.ie using the vehicle transaction enquiry to see if the car has changed hands recently.

Check that the VIN numbers on the chassis and engine match the VLC and also VIN may be etched in to bottom of passenger side underneath windscreen.

As for the handover of cash it really depends on how much we are talking about as to what precautions to take, for me if the sum is less than €5000 I will hand it over at their address, if it's more than this I will insist on a lodgement in to his bank account of he cash. In these economic times you could probably be shot dead for €200 so it's hard to know what approach.

Atlantic Dawn

arleitiss wrote: »

I would never sell my car at my home, as already said: "too many idiots out there" who will come crying in few months time saying: "oh here pal, you sold me a bad yoke, i want me cash back" wouldn't want one of those show up beside house.

Well I am afraid I would never buy one from you . For ownership verification how can this be done if you don't see the VLC with owners name and address on it before handing over the cash. You would look fairly foolish going to your local Garda station and saying sorry officer can you help me I just gave €25,000 to a guy in the LIDL carpark and he sold me a stolen car will you help me.

Supergurrier

I wouldn't want a buyer at the gaff either.

Is it a sub 2k car ?

listermint

Hi OP,

Be VERY VERY careful about this. I wouldnt have believed it myself. But one of the lads over on a motors club im a member of handed over +10K cash for what was a legitimately priced BMW X5 with decent spec.

He viewed the car twice, and even had it looked over by an independent BMW mechanic on the second visit. The guy who was selling was 'sound enough' and was relaxed the whole time.

The buyer even did your general motor checks. So he was all happy after the second visit and the clearance and he handed over the cash.

The seller sent off the docs to vehicle registration office for owner transfer. And a couple of days later the new owner (lad off the forum) got a call around from the guards. The X5 had been bought from someone down the country a few weeks prior with a bankdraft. That owner never cashed it straight away and just handed over the logbook to this lad.

Turns out the bankdraft was a dud. And his lad has effectively walked off with the X5 without paying a penny and was free to sell on as he had the logbook and everything.

Anyway guards took the car. Case went to civil court and this lad lost and was down his 10K cash despite doing all the 'normal check' anyone would expect with a private sale.

Bloody crappy story as he had a new baby and that on the way.

listermint

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Verify his idendity matches that on the VLC, do this by checking his passport or driving licence, if this doesn't match walk away as it's not his car to sell. His address should also match that on the VLC. This will insure he sends the VLC in quickly as otherwise any fines will go to him.

Check on motortax.ie using the vehicle transaction enquiry to see if the car has changed hands recently.

Check that the VIN numbers on the chassis and engine match the VLC and also VIN may be etched in to bottom of passenger side underneath windscreen.

As for the handover of cash it really depends on how much we are talking about as to what precautions to take, for me if the sum is less than €5000 I will hand it over at their address, if it's more than this I will insist on a lodgement in to his bank account of he cash. In these economic times you could probably be shot dead for €200 so it's hard to know what approach.

I missed this advice here, But this is good advice. Coupled with all the other checks.

Hal1

Read this Op.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056198864

daRobot

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

insist on a lodgement in to his bank account of he cash

Spot on.

He's now:

a) On a good camera

b) Used his account, or if not, it'll be easy to find out whose account it was used.

If he refuses this, walk. There is no genuine reason to refuse this.

Atlantic Dawn

listermint wrote: »

The buyer even did your general motor checks. So he was all happy after the second visit and the clearance and he handed over the cash.

The seller sent off the docs to vehicle registration office for owner transfer. And a couple of days later the new owner (lad off the forum) got a call around from the guards. The X5 had been bought from someone down the country a few weeks prior with a bankdraft. That owner never cashed it straight away and just handed over the logbook to this lad.
.

This is where verifying the identity of the seller is the identity on the logbook and recent change of ownership is so so important, would have saved him €10k.

Xpro

Basic checks apply as said above.
Log book must match his ID, otherwise he's a wheeler dealer or a potential scammer. Could well be a trader that doesn't want to leave any traces and works with cash only.

As for meeting someone at your house, I wouldn't do it either. Too many gaugers these days and very hard to trust anyone.

Esel

daRobot wrote: »

Spot on.

He's now:

a) On a good camera

b) Used his account, or if not, it'll be easy to find out whose account it was used.

If he refuses this, walk. There is no genuine reason to refuse this.

How about being in debt to the bank (overdrawn etc.)? That's a fairly valid reason for not wanting the cash lodged.

Esel

listermint wrote: »

Hi OP,

Be VERY VERY careful about this. I wouldnt have believed it myself. But one of the lads over on a motors club im a member of handed over +10K cash for what was a legitimately priced BMW X5 with decent spec.

He viewed the car twice, and even had it looked over by an independent BMW mechanic on the second visit. The guy who was selling was 'sound enough' and was relaxed the whole time.

The buyer even did your general motor checks. So he was all happy after the second visit and the clearance and he handed over the cash.

The seller sent off the docs to vehicle registration office for owner transfer. And a couple of days later the new owner (lad off the forum) got a call around from the guards. The X5 had been bought from someone down the country a few weeks prior with a bankdraft. That owner never cashed it straight away and just handed over the logbook to this lad.

Turns out the bankdraft was a dud. And his lad has effectively walked off with the X5 without paying a penny and was free to sell on as he had the logbook and everything.

Anyway guards took the car. Case went to civil court and this lad lost and was down his 10K cash despite doing all the 'normal check' anyone would expect with a private sale.

Bloody crappy story as he had a new baby and that on the way.

Tough alright, but unless the guy you know did not do the deal at the seller's home I don't see how it applies to the OP.

mathepac

arleitiss wrote: »

I would never sell my car at my home, as already said: "too many idiots out there" who will come crying in few months time saying: "oh here pal, you sold me a bad yoke, i want me cash back" wouldn't want one of those show up beside house.

So if your name & address never appeared on the registration certificate, how would a buyer know you were authorised to sell the car? Or are you a "dealer" posing as a private seller?

visual

The garda have advised not to be buying cars in carparks or side of a road for good reasons.

If the car and seller is genuine there is no valid reason not to established the registered owner and address is correct.

Robin132

I sell cars quite a bit and I NEVER meet them at my house, either when they are viewing the car or when they are handing over the cash. There are too many idiots out there and I dont want them knowing where I live. It doesn't mean the car is dodgy, or that I'm dodgy, just that I don't bring strangers, who may want nothing more than to rob me and my house, straight to my house!

I was brought up in a house where cars were bought and sold on a very regular basis and this was always the norm!

arleitiss

visual wrote: »

The garda have advised not to be buying cars in carparks or side of a road for good reasons.

If the car and seller is genuine there is no valid reason not to established the registered owner and address is correct.

There is a genuine reason, apparently lots of buyers are idiots who first mis-inspect car, buy it then come back crying for cash back and threats (pretty sure I heard it happen before here on forums), in that case the last thing someone would want is knowing where they live.

Peanut2011

listermint wrote: »

The seller sent off the docs to vehicle registration office for owner transfer. And a couple of days later the new owner (lad off the forum) got a call around from the guards. The X5 had been bought from someone down the country a few weeks prior with a bankdraft. That owner never cashed it straight away and just handed over the logbook to this lad.

Just how long did it take for the original owner to cash the bank draft??? There is too many holes in this story or the buyer was so daft and should not have been buying cars private ever!