Vinatis for Wine

vicwatson

Anyone buying from them and does it get stopped by customs, though it seems as if you pay Duty on it when purchasing ??

TIA

rubadub

vicwatson wrote: »

it seems as if you pay Duty on it when purchasing ??

Do you have a link to this?

This recent thread is about a guy with wine in customs
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057062978

coylemj

Their '.co.uk' website has no delivery charge listed for ROI so I guess they haven't registered for VAT and excise here in which case the revenue will probably seize the deliveries.

Prices look good, I checked out their Rhone reds and recognised this 2010 Guigal for £6.34 in Vivantis ......

http://www.vinatis.co.uk/13232-cotes-du-rhone-e-guigal-2007-france-rhone-rouge-075l-.html

which I bought (same label, same year) in O'Briens last week for €14.99. The photo on their website shows a 2005 bottle and the description mentions 2009 but the bottle I bought is 2010.....

http://www.obrienswine.ie/wine/colour-type/red-wine/guigal-cotes-du-rhone-rouge.html

I realise there's lower VAT and excise in the UK and we have a flat charge on every bottle but I don't think that fully explains the gap in price.

vicwatson

rubadub wrote: »

Do you have a link to this?

This recent thread is about a guy with wine in customs
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057062978

When you go to check out and change the delivery country it adds €3.00 per bottle to the cost that's displayed on their French website.

coylemj

This is from the thread linked to by rubadub above in post #2, there's no URL provided in the post below but the text I have emboldened is quoted as coming from the Revenue website.....

acermaple wrote: »

From the Revenue site:

'The necessary arrangements for payment of the excise duty and VAT (at the standard rate) in the State must be made by the trader who sells and delivers the products. These arrangements include registration for VAT in the State.

The Purchaser should be satisfied that the trader is compliant, as untaxed products are liable to seizure and confiscation.'

Can't see the trader agreeing to pay duty (I'm assuming they haven't or the goods wouldn't have been seized) and VAT-they have got their money from me already, so it looks like it's buyer beware. No mention of allowing me to pay the duty either.

In general terms, a trader within the EU can sell you goods (e.g. DVDs, gadgets etc.) and ship them to Ireland provided that VAT is paid either in the vendor's country or in Ireland. However if a vendor is selling above a certain level of value each year into Ireland, he has to register here for VAT and pay the VAT in Ireland, that's why you have to pay Irish VAT (23%) when buying from Amazon UK. My reading of the quote above however is that in the case of excisable goods, there is no threshold, all of the VAT and excise has to be paid to the Irish revenue so unless the vendor is registered with the Irish revenue to pay the VAT and excise, he cannot ship booze into Ireland.

rubadub

vicwatson wrote: »

When you go to check out and change the delivery country it adds €3.00 per bottle to the cost that's displayed on their French website.

If its properly setup I would expect the added price per bottle to change depending on where its sent. i.e. they would only charge the minimum duty necessary. Maybe not though.

White Horse

vicwatson wrote: »

When you go to check out and change the delivery country it adds €3.00 per bottle to the cost that's displayed on their French website.

I have bought from them regularly and have never had anything stopped by Customs. I assumed that the higher prices to Ireland include Irish VAT and duty.

boble

White Horse, have you bought from them recently? Do you do it via their UK website or their french website? Do you buy in large quantities?
Thanks

White Horse

boble wrote: »

White Horse, have you bought from them recently? Do you do it via their UK website or their french website? Do you buy in large quantities?
Thanks

Yes, I have bought recently.

I buy from their French site and usually order a case of 18 bottles. That is the most economic quantity. Freight is E12-E14.

ishotjr2

Hi

Hope its OK to post to an old thread. But anyway

So I went to order 18 bottles on Vinitas went all the way up to enter credit card and it does not charge the extra 3 euro per bottle. Maybe something has changed recently. I went to read the T&C's but it is in French and google translate cannot make a jist of it. I was on the ".co.uk" site but unless you speak french when you change language it goes to the ".co.uk." site.

I will try ring them on Monday.

ishotjr2

I sent them an email, they said the duty was included in the price. So I went ahead and ordered 18 bottles and it arrived today!

Looking forward to a bottle or two tonight.

That is a load of christmas presents sorted!

the beer revolu

ishotjr2 wrote: »

I sent them an email, they said the duty was included in the price.!

I seriously suspect that they are lying through their teeth on that.

Did they specifically say that Irish duty and VAT are included in the price.

ishotjr2

I asked specifically about Irish duty.

"Our prices on the website includes all taxes, the only thing which you will have extra costs for are the delivery costs."

the beer revolu

ishotjr2 wrote: »

I asked specifically about Irish duty.

"Our prices on the website includes all taxes, the only thing which you will have extra costs for are the delivery costs."

They wouldn't be the first online seller to be telling porkies on that issue.
I still don't believe them.

Kloppstar

a friend buys from them every month - he does group buys to save on delievery - he has had no problems

Padraig Mor

the beer revolu wrote: »

They wouldn't be the first online seller to be telling porkies on that issue.
I still don't believe them.

I know for a fact that Vinatis do not pay Irish VAT / duty, thus leaving goods entering Ireland liable to seizure.

the beer revolu

Kloppstar wrote: »

a friend buys from them every month - he does group buys to save on delievery - he has had no problems

That doesn't mean that it's all legit, though.
It just means his wine hasn't been stopped.

ishotjr2

Prices have go up now and it expressly says on the website, that prices include relevant taxes for Ireland.

the beer revolu

ishotjr2 wrote: »

Prices have go up now and it expressly says on the website, that prices include relevant taxes for Ireland.

I've heard of lots of websites claiming that.
I've yet to see one that actually has an arrangement with Irish Revenue.

Padraig Mor

the beer revolu wrote: »

I've heard of lots of websites claiming that.
I've yet to see one that actually has an arrangement with Irish Revenue.

I reckon they probably do now - I've been buying from them for years, but they've recently added about €5 per bottle for addresses in Ireland. Revenue definitely clamping down! Gourmondo not shipping here anymore either.

L1011

the beer revolu wrote: »

I've heard of lots of websites claiming that.
I've yet to see one that actually has an arrangement with Irish Revenue.

Master of Malt are very specific - down to the state level in the US - about where they ship what and adjust pricing respectively; stating all taxes are paid. I'd be pretty certain they're legit in that case.

AidanH111

I ordered 6 bottles of wine through Amazon.co.uk from Decantare which is in Spain. The wine was seized by Customs and Excise in the Border Midlands West Region in the DPD Depot Athlone.
I got a seizure notice dated 22 May 2017 with an illegible signature - no printed name and a telephone number that is unattended 0579346215. No email available either.
I will write to Customs and offer to pay the outstanding duties, but I think I know what the answer will be.
So much for Customer Service from Revenue, and so much for the Single Market.

BeerNut

AidanH111 wrote: »

So much for Customer Service from Revenue, and so much for the Single Market.

It's entirely Decantare's fault. If they'd followed the rules of the Single Market there would have been no problem.

AidanH111

BeerNut wrote: »

AidanH111 wrote: »

So much for Customer Service from Revenue, and so much for the Single Market.

It's entirely Decantare's fault. If they'd followed the rules of the Single Market there would have been no problem.

I've contacted Decantare and am awaiting their reply. The Single Market should come with a health warning here in Ireland. "The Single Market does not apply to alcohol, tobacco, hydrocarbon oils, motor insurance, motor vehicles etc. etc."

BeerNut

AidanH111 wrote: »

"The Single Market does not apply to alcohol, tobacco, hydrocarbon oils, motor insurance, motor vehicles etc. etc."

It does apply, you just don't get to use it on your own terms, like any market.

AidanH111

I got a reply from Decantare to say that they are following this up with Amazon.
I had ordered the wine through Amazon who passed it to Decantare, who are part of the Amazon Marketplace.
On their website Amazon say that they are registered for VAT in Ireland.
My order and payment went to Amazon, so the "contract" for the goods is with Amazon, not Decantare.
So this being the case, who is the trader that sells and delivers the products ? Amazon? Decantare? DPD?
Also Revenue says that the purchaser should be satisfied that the trader is compliant - how does the ordinary citizen do this?

BeerNut

AidanH111 wrote: »

So this being the case, who is the trader that sells and delivers the products ? Amazon? Decantare? DPD?

Just a guess but I'd have thought Decantare. The product doesn't actually pass through Amazon's hands at any point (I think), Amazon just handles the purchase transaction.

AidanH111 wrote: »

Also Revenue says that the purchaser should be satisfied that the trader is compliant - how does the ordinary citizen do this?

You ask them. And if it turns out they were lying you ask for your money back.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

coylemj

BeerNut wrote: »

Just a guess but I'd have thought Decantare. The product doesn't actually pass through Amazon's hands at any point (I think), Amazon just handles the purchase transaction.

Can't comment on that specific seller but the thing to watch out for in the product description on the Amazon website is 'fulfilled by Amazon' which means it will be shipped from an Amazon distribution centre, otherwise it will be shipped direct from the seller.

BeerNut

I'd be willing to bet Amazon.co.uk won't ship excisable goods out of the UK.

AidanH111

I finally collected my 4.5 litres of wine yesterday from Revenue in the New Custom House in Dublin port.

Customs and Excise in the Border Midlands West Region called me back one evening about three weeks ago,
after they had noticed numerous calls on their voicemail, to say that I could email my claim to them - no general email,
but the C&E officer gave me his work email.

After two weeks I got a notice from Revenue's National Prosecutions and Seizures Office in Bridgend to say that I could collect the wine
from the New Custom House in Dublin Port.

The notice stated that the wine would be released to me if I indemnified the Revenue and the Minister for Finance in the matter and
paid the duty and VAT outstanding. Payment would only be accepted by Bankers draft or Postal Order.

The New Custom House in Dublin port does not have a public office, as such, so details of the Revenue officers and their mobile phones were provided,
so that I could make an appointment (between 10am and 4pm weekdays). You must have photographic id (driving licence or passport) and evidence of your
PPS number (tax notice, Social Services card etc.) with you when collecting your goods.

Once I made contact with them, the Revenue staff were very helpful, and admitted that personal importation of wine into Ireland "was a grey area",
even from another EU country.

The wine I ordered was Tagonius Roble 2011 and the cost including shipping was 72 Euros, the duty and VAT was another 28 Euro.

Tagonius Roble is not available here in Ireland since From Vineyards Direct ceased trading in Ireland, hence the reason for the personal importation.

Padraig Mor

AidanH111 wrote: »

since From Vineyards Direct ceased trading in Ireland, hence the reason for the personal importation.

Those scammers finally give up the ghost so?

MarkyBoi30

L1011 wrote: »

Master of Malt are very specific - down to the state level in the US - about where they ship what and adjust pricing respectively; stating all taxes are paid. I'd be pretty certain they're legit in that case.

I ordered a bottle of whisky from Master of Malt recently and it was seized by customs under the Finance Act 2001 Section 142. If I had known there would be problems I would have just ordered it to England as is a Christmas gift for my dad who lives there, its only because he is over here for Christmas that I ordered it here. Seems ridiculous!

It says I have 30 days to contact them to try and resolve yet no one answers the number when I dial it (057 934 6215). Does anyone know an alternative method?

AidanH111

MarkyBoi30 wrote: »

L1011 wrote: »

Master of Malt are very specific - down to the state level in the US - about where they ship what and adjust pricing respectively; stating all taxes are paid. I'd be pretty certain they're legit in that case.

I ordered a bottle of whisky from Master of Malt recently and it was seized by customs under the Finance Act 2001 Section 142. If I had known there would be problems I would have just ordered it to England as is a Christmas gift for my dad who lives there, its only because he is over here for Christmas that I ordered it here. Seems ridiculous!

It says I have 30 days to contact them to try and resolve yet no one answers the number when I dial it (057 934 6215). Does anyone know an alternative method?

Try calling the number after normal business hours. The staff in that office are on shift. I found that they are very helpful.

The bottom line is that, for Exciseable goods such as alcohol, unless the exporter is registered for VAT and Excise duty within the Republic of Ireland, then the goods will be seized.

It doesn't matter if the export is within the EU, the same rules apply. The Single European Market is not absolute. Freedom of movement of services and people alright, but not goods, especially Exiseable goods.

L1011

Its unlikely that you'll be able to get it released to you. Get on to Master of Malt directly, not Revenue.

AidanH111

L1011 wrote: »

Its unlikely that you'll be able to get it released to you. Get on to Master of Malt directly, not Revenue.

See my previous posts in this thread. I got my wine released to me on payment of the VAT and Excise duty.

L1011

AidanH111 wrote: »

See my previous posts in this thread. I got my wine released to me on payment of the VAT and Excise duty.

Against all Revenue specs and possibly the law though - you don't have an import licence. The majority of posts here and on other forums when people post about impounded product is that it is destroyed with no option to pay due to them not having the appropriate licences.

In this case there is a retailer who purport to pay the duty (and charge sufficiently for them to do so) so there is no reason for the receiver to even consider paying it - credit card chargeback time.

AidanH111

L1011 wrote: »

Against all Revenue specs and possibly the law

Really ? Revenue in breach of its own procedures and The Finance Act !!

Ha ha nice one. 😂

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

the beer revolu

MarkyBoi30 wrote: »

I ordered a bottle of whisky from Master of Malt recently and it was seized by customs under the Finance Act 2001 Section 142. If I had known there would be problems I would have just ordered it to England as is a Christmas gift for my dad who lives there, its only because he is over here for Christmas that I ordered it here. Seems ridiculous!

It says I have 30 days to contact them to try and resolve yet no one answers the number when I dial it (057 934 6215). Does anyone know an alternative method?

This makes my blood boil.
The amount of online sellers that claim to be legit but aren't is ridiculous.
I've heard so many people claim that MoM were above board but I always doubted it.

Is there any off shore online booze seller registered with Irish Revenue, I wonder?

AidanH111

the beer revolu wrote: »

This makes my blood boil.
The amount of online sellers that claim to be legit but aren't is ridiculous.
I've heard so many people claim that MoM were above board but I always doubted it.

Is there any off shore online booze seller registered with Irish Revenue, I wonder?

I wonder how many are registered with any tax authority in the EU for that matter.

dudara

I would assume that registering with Irish Revenue and having to pay the very onerous Irish excise rates would mean that non-Irish sellers would lose their competitive advantage.

Customs seem to be on alert at the moment with the run up to Christmas. But otherwise, it's worth taking your chances