Server hosting & liability

CrazyRabbit

Was just looking at the story about the guy the US are trying to extradite for being the owner of a hosting service where users shared child abuse images.

Story here:
http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2013/1022/481990-marques-child-porn-suspect/

And the part that got my attention is:

Marques, of Mountjoy Square in Dublin, is accused of being the sole administrator of an anonymous hosting server called Freedom Hosting where the FBI claim thousands of members allegedly posted millions of images of child pornography.

If I understand correctly, he sets up a service hosting websites for 3rd parties, who then used those websites to share/host illegal pics/vids. He's not accused of posting/sharing the material himself.

How is this any different that the service provided by GoDaddy, or to a lesser extent Facebook or Youtube? They all offer users a place to host their own content & users can post highly illegal images/videos. The only difference it seems is that he provided anonymous hosting...no logging of IP addresses.

On a side note, I wouldn't agree to any extradition to the U.S for any alleged crime. Their prison system is a multi-billion dollar industry and there are proven cases of judges being bribed into falsely conviction people/sending them to prison. Their prison sentences are also excessive and there is no attempt made to rehabilitate.

Stheno

I think it's the facilitation of illegal acts that they are going after him for?

MadsL

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

On a side note, I wouldn't agree to any extradition to the U.S for any alleged crime. Their prison system is a multi-billion dollar industry and there are proven cases of judges being bribed into falsely conviction people/sending them to prison. Their prison sentences are also excessive and there is no attempt made to rehabilitate.

An alleged US child-rapist flees to Ireland and you would oppose extradition to face trial based on your objections to the US prison system. That's one f*cked up moral position your anti-US position just put you in.

aN.Droid

Because freedom hosting hosted the majority of the child pornography on deepnet. I agree 100% with having anonymous hosting available but it was widely known what freedom hosting was mainly used for.

Uaru

Is this not akin to a shopkeeper selling child porn in brown envelopes and saying it's not his problem as he didn't know what was in them? Sort of.

biko

If he is an Irish citizen he should be tried here according to Irish laws (which I hope happens btw).

gctest50

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

If I understand correctly, he sets up a service hosting websites for 3rd parties, who then used those websites to share/host illegal pics/vids. He's not accused of posting/sharing the material himself.

How is this any different that the service provided by GoDaddy, or to a lesser extent Facebook or Youtube?

If they got a valid complaint, they would take down the material and hopefully report it



http://www.ibtimes.com/anonymous-accuses-freedom-hosting-linking-child-pornography-360672

Bepolite

Freedom hosting was a far cry from incidentally having child porn on it. The man himself was accused of looking at the stuff himself and knew what was on the servers.

Any extradition to the US will always be treated with some scepticism given their human rights record.

MadsL

biko wrote: »

If he is an Irish citizen he should be tried here according to Irish laws (which I hope happens btw).

He's also a US citizen.

aN.Droid

Uaru wrote: »

Is this not akin to a shopkeeper selling child porn in brown envelopes and saying it's not his problem as he didn't know what was in them? Sort of.

Nope, it would be like someone renting a shop and sellinh it from there and the landlord goes to jail

gctest50

Limericks wrote: »

Nope, it would be like someone renting a shop and sellinh it from there and the landlord goes to jail

It would be more like the landlord being
told there was dodgy stuff in there,
going in for a look around,
seeing/testing the dodgy stuff,
and tidying up the shelves a bit

aN.Droid

gctest50 wrote: »

It would be more like the landlord being
told there was dodgy stuff in there,
going in for a look around,
seeing/testing the dodgy stuff,
and tidying up the shelves a bit

Yeah, this

Stheno

gctest50 wrote: »

It would be more like the landlord being
told there was dodgy stuff in there,
going in for a look around,
seeing/testing the dodgy stuff,
and tidying up the shelves a bit

and beefing up the security to make sure it was hidden as much as it could be.

Bepolite

It would be like:

A guy setting up hidden servers, hosting child porn, knowing child porn was there, allegedly downloading it himself and then...

I am pie

Yeah, hope he gets a long long time in a very nasty prison. Fraid I don't care too much for his liberty while he helped inflict so much misery on children by profligating this grim stuff around the world. Throw the book at him and let it be a lesson.

Maximus Alexander

Uaru wrote: »

Is this not akin to a shopkeeper selling child porn in brown envelopes and saying it's not his problem as he didn't know what was in them? Sort of.

No, it's nothing like that. It would be more like An Post delivering envelopes with child porn in them and saying it's not their problem because they didn't know what was in them.

Bepolite

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

No, it's nothing like that. It would be more like An Post delivering envelopes with child porn in them and saying it's not their problem because they didn't know what was in them.

Except that AN post would have been set to send child porn and other things with an express policy of it wasn't going to stop these things and the owner would have been 'dabbling' himself.

Oh and the post man wouild have been invisable and the address hidden and people would have only got caught when the FBI send leeters asking people to send their addresses back to them and they did becuase they weren't very good at security securtity.

As hilarious as these comparisons are they are utter bollox

Sh1tbag OToole

Great another man getting into trouble for selling bytes arranged the wrong way..

Shows how soft our justice system is when this lad is asking to be tried in Ireland.

He'd probably get 2 years suspended here while in the US he probably won't see the light of day for 15+.

Hope he gets extradited, shame we can't extradite all our convicts for proper punishments compared to this joke of a country.

Bepolite

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Shows how soft our justice system is when this lad is asking to be tried in Ireland.

He'd probably get 2 years suspended here while in the US he probably won't see the light of day for 15+.

Hope he gets extradited, shame we can't extradite all our convicts for proper punishments compared to this joke of a country.

Yep becuase the US system shows us that their system of punishment works so much better than everywhere else.

Does it bollocks!

MadsL

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Great another man getting into trouble for selling bytes arranged the wrong way..

Under US law, if it can be shown that these crimes occurred on US soil, by distributing images of the rape and torture of minors, this f*cker becomes an accessory after the fact in the rape and torture of minors on US soil. He is also a US citizen, so those here are opposing the extradition of a US citizen to face charges of the rape and torture of minors on US soil by a US court.

That's as defending the indefensible as I have ever seen on boards.

I hope they give him consecutive sentences and admit him to the general prison population.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

MadsL wrote: »

Under US law, if it can be shown that these crimes occurred on US soil, by distributing images of the rape and torture of minors, this f*cker becomes an accessory after the fact in the rape and torture of minors on US soil. He is also a US citizen, so those here are opposing the extradition of a US citizen to face charges of the rape and torture of minors on US soil by a US court.

That's as defending the indefensible as I have ever seen on boards.

I hope they give him consecutive sentences and admit him to the general prison population.

He is an Irish citizen and the alleged offences are claimed by the the FBI to have been committed in this country.
I wouldn't extradite anyone to the US, a country with an abysmal human rights record.

MadsL

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

He is an Irish citizen and the alleged offences are claimed by the the FBI to have been committed in this country.
I wouldn't extradite anyone to the US, a country with an abysmal human rights record.

He's ALSO a US Citizen and as an accessory after the fact is an accessory to crimes committed in the US.

MadsL

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

the alleged offences are claimed by the the FBI to have been committed in this country.

He is charged with distributing, conspiring to distribute, and advertising child pornography.

Do you suppose those adverts were only served to Irish IP addresses?

I wouldn't extradite anyone to the US, a country with an abysmal human rights record.

F*ck that, this is possible the world biggest child pornographer. You want a technicality. "Payment for the use of the server was made by a debit card in Eric Marques’ name from a US bank account"
Boom, crime committed under US jurisdiction.

He's the FBI's man. Get over it.

Maximus Alexander

MadsL wrote: »

He is charged with distributing, conspiring to distribute, and advertising child pornography.

Do you suppose those adverts were only served to Irish IP addresses?



F*ck that, this is possible the world biggest child pornographer. You want a technicality. "Payment for the use of the server was made by a debit card in Eric Marques’ name from a US bank account"
Boom, crime committed under US jurisdiction.

He's the FBI's man. Get over it.

If he is a citizen of both countries, and committed crimes in both countries, why do you think the US should take precedence?

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

An alleged US child-rapist flees to Ireland and you would oppose extradition to face trial based on your objections to the US prison system. That's one f*cked up moral position your anti-US position just put you in.

Do you have a Google alert set up for any time anyone mentions the US? And then some compelling force that makes you reply to each and every one instead of, oh I don't know, just ignoring it?

Skylinehead

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you have a Google alert set up for any time anyone mentions the US? And then some compelling force that makes you reply to each and every one instead of, oh I don't know, just ignoring it?

Typing 'Murica is like the bat signal to him.


'Murica.

MadsL

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If he is a citizen of both countries, and committed crimes in both countries, why do you think the US should take precedence?

How likely is he to give up information on the people who raped and tortured and sold the videos of raped and tortured kids if he stands trial in Dublin.

Give him to the FBI. How is this even in question ffs? Are you all bonkers?

MadsL

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you have a Google alert set up for any time anyone mentions the US? And then some compelling force that makes you reply to each and every one instead of, oh I don't know, just ignoring it?

Let's see. I respond to posts.

Others are arguing for the non-extradition of the largest child-porn ring facilitator on the planet.

And I'm getting the criticism? Wow.

Sh1tbag OToole

MadsL wrote: »

Under US law, if it can be shown that these crimes occurred on US soil, by distributing images of the rape and torture of minors, this f*cker becomes an accessory after the fact in the rape and torture of minors on US soil. He is also a US citizen, so those here are opposing the extradition of a US citizen to face charges of the rape and torture of minors on US soil by a US court.

That's as defending the indefensible as I have ever seen on boards.

I hope they give him consecutive sentences and admit him to the general prison population.

If he re-arranged the bytes slightly or changed the values of a few fistfulls of them he would have been alright. Strange world we live in especially now that the powers that be are getting more involved in the whole interweb thing.

I suppose this guy is a softer target than the lads actually raping the children, those are usually based in far flung places. Even if they rounded up every lad hosting the child porn (knowingly or not) they probably wouldnt even put a dent in the amount thats produced.

Even the computer generated bytes in the wrong order are illegal to have on your hard drive / punch cards / usb sticks. which is rather odd

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

Let's see. I respond to posts.

You are arguing for the non-extradition of the largest child-porn ring facilitator on the planet.

Wow.

Erm.

Did I say that any where? Wow.

Maximus Alexander

MadsL wrote: »

How likely is he to give up information on the people who raped and tortured and sold the videos of raped and tortured kids if he stands trial in Dublin.

Give him to the FBI. How is this even in question ffs? Are you all bonkers?

Why would he be more likely to give that information to the FBI, assuming he has it?

MadsL

Deleted User wrote: »

Erm.

Did I say that any where? Wow.

Apologies. I ninja edited after I realise you didn't.

Still, why am I the one in the wrong??

MadsL

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Why would he be more likely to give that information to the FBI, assuming he has it?

Oh, lets see. Perhaps bcause they will be the ones to interview him. Y'know, rather than the AGS internet squad.

Maximus Alexander

MadsL wrote: »

Oh, lets see. Perhaps bcause they will be the ones to interview him. Y'know, rather than the AGS internet squad.

What sets an FBI interview apart from interviews in other parts of the world?

MadsL

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

If he re-arranged the bytes slightly or changed the values of a few fistfulls of them he would have been alright. Strange world we live in especially now that the powers that be are getting more involved in the whole interweb thing.

I suppose this guy is a softer target than the lads actually raping the children, those are usually based in far flung places. Even if they rounded up every lad hosting the child porn (knowingly or not) they probably wouldnt even put a dent in the amount thats produced.

Even the computer generated bytes in the wrong order are illegal to have on your hard drive / punch cards / usb sticks. which is rather odd

He's an accessory to child rape.

We should do what exactly with him??

MadsL

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

What sets an FBI interview apart from interviews in other parts of the world?

Experience. And the fact the many of the crimes were committed in the US.

Maximus Alexander

MadsL wrote: »

Experience. And the fact the many of the crimes were committed in the US.

I have to say I think your argument is fairly weak. You haven't said anything of substance.

MadsL

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I have to say I think your argument is fairly weak. You haven't said anything of substance.

What is your argument for NOT extraditing him? A dislike of America?

BattleCorp

MadsL wrote: »

How likely is he to give up information on the people who raped and tortured and sold the videos of raped and tortured kids if he stands trial in Dublin.

Give him to the FBI. How is this even in question ffs? Are you all bonkers?

I'm usually on your side in most debates but are you advocating "give him to the FBI and they'll torture the info out of him"?

Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.



And, just for the record, I'm with you on throwing the book at child abusers.

Maximus Alexander

MadsL wrote: »

What is your argument for NOT extraditing him? A dislike of America?

That's an odd assumption. There isn't really any need to form a counter-argument until someone forms an argument in favour of it.

I am pie

MadsL wrote: »

Apologies. I ninja edited after I realise you didn't.

Still, why am I the one in the wrong??

You aren't. You just aren't.

Fck him, I would happily see him locked up in the worst stinking prison in the world. Are we supposed to care what passport he is claiming allegiance too? Really...disgusting farce of a man profiting from child abuse.

But yeah, internetz...freedom...I want my free movies and stuff.

Sh1tbag OToole

MadsL wrote: »

He's an accessory to child rape.

We should do what exactly with him??

If he is then the US should hire out a North Korean gulag for him to serve his sentence there.
But not if he's just a lad with a server and a couple of bytes on it

MadsL

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm usually on your side in most debates but are you advocating "give him to the FBI and they'll torture the info out of him"?

Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.

Where the hell did I say that? He's been brought in as part of an investigation of a ring of child-porn producers, child abductors and torturers. He's also conspired to advertise online child porn and has investigated fleeing to Russia to escape prosecution.

Of course the FBI should have access to interview him and get information in order to get more names involved. He could serve a lesser sentance and give up key people in this ring.

What possible reason could you have to object to that?[/QUOTE]

And, just for the record, I'm with you on throwing the book at child abusers.

He's a US citizen, naturalised as Irish. Strip his Irish citizenship and deport him.

MadsL

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

If he is then the US should hire out a North Korean gulag for him to serve his sentence there.
But not if he's just a lad with a server and a couple of bytes on it

You think a dark Tor server hosting pictures has his holiday pics on it.

How naive are you? The FBI already hacked the Tor node - they know what was on the server.

Sh1tbag OToole

MadsL wrote: »

You think a dark Tor server hosting pictures has his holiday pics on it.

How naive are you? The FBI already hacked the Tor node - they know what was on the server.

My own tor node when I still had it had holiday pics on it. I used to mess around with tor a bit cause I found the software interesting. I suppose there is kiddy porn on it too but I stayed away from that. Just like the 'normal' internet there is good and bad on it.

MadsL

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That's an odd assumption. There isn't really any need to form a counter-argument until someone forms an argument in favour of it.

Now you are just being slippery. I already laid out my argument. He paid for the server for use as a child-pornography hub using a US bank account. That is in breach of the US Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act 1988.

A crime. In America. By a US citizen.

Open and shut in my view.

Now, why should he NOT be extradited?

MadsL

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

My own tor node when I still had it had holiday pics on it. I used to mess around with tor a bit cause I found the software interesting. I suppose there is kiddy porn on it too but I stayed away from that. Just like the 'normal' internet there is good and bad on it.

But there is no conjecture as to what he had on the server. The FBI already hacked it.

???

What exactly are you trying to say, he's innocent??

"The court heard evidence that large sums of money had passed through Mr Marques’ bank accounts, including large payments sent to accounts in Romania."

Maximus Alexander

MadsL wrote: »

Now you are just being slippery. I already laid out my argument. He paid for the server for use as a child-pornography hub using a US bank account. That is in breach of the US Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act 1988.

A crime. In America. By a US citizen.

Open and shut in my view.

Now, why should he NOT be extradited?

He is an Irish citizen who has committed crimes in Ireland and is currently resident in Ireland. So regardless of what he has done elsewhere, he should be tried here by default unless there is a compelling argument for why he should be extradited.

"He also committed crimes in the US" is not a good argument. You would need to be able to show why the US should take precedence.

MadsL

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

He is an Irish citizen who has committed crimes in Ireland and is currently resident in Ireland. So regardless of what he has done elsewhere, he should be tried here by default unless there is a compelling argument for why he should be extradited.

Where was he born? He's a naturalised irish citizen. Strip him of citizenship if that is the issue.

Or do you want the Irish people to pay for the incarceration of a child pornographer when he would be more usefully tried in the US.

"He also committed crimes in the US" is not a good argument. You would need to be able to show why the US should take precedence.

Because he broke the Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act by using funds in a US account to facilitate child pornography.

Corkbah

MadsL wrote: »

Let's see. I respond to posts.

Others are arguing for the non-extradition of the largest child-porn ring facilitator on the planet.

And I'm getting the criticism? Wow.

Alleged !!