"Creatine" can be fatal and cause you to fail drugs tests

runawaybishop

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irfu-warning-over-bulking-up-supplements-29685941.html

The article talks about dangerous/fatal supplements, failing doping tests and likens supplement use to Russian roulette. It goes on to mention many supplements contain banned substances yet only one supplement is called out by name - creatine.

I guess I'll stick to Brennans' bread for my protein.

cc87

To be fair the IRFU nutritionist is right in what she says but they throw in that lad Buckleys vendetta against supplements and then you put your tabloid title on it to make it sound worse

Theresalwaysone

An iteration of this article is released every year without fail.

Zzz zzz

rubadub

"Creatine" can be fatal

I couldn't see this claim in that article.

All I saw was this

“There is evidence that the use of some supplements can even be fatal,” Prof Buckley said.

Which is no doubt true, I imagine pretty much every substance on the planet can be fatal in some circumstances. You would think they would have said which ones he is most worried about, and how it could be fatal, rather than useless vague scaremongering.

runawaybishop

rubadub wrote: »

I couldn't see this claim in that article.

All I saw was this


Which is no doubt true, I imagine pretty much every substance on the planet can be fatal in some circumstances. You would think they would have said which ones he is most worried about, and how it could be fatal, rather than useless vague scaremongering.

That's what I was getting at - the article makes claims that are in and of themselves true but irrelevant to the one substance they named.

Hanley

Rabble x3

Dravokivich

You'd want to criticise the article itself, more so than the comments attributed to it on behalf of IRFU. Indo's articles rarely present a level range of information and often start discussing something else halfway through. I wouldn't mind knowing the context those snipped quotes where in response to.

cc87

Dravokivich wrote: »

You'd want to criticise the article itself, more so than the comments attributed to it on behalf of IRFU. Indo's articles rarely present a level range of information and often start discussing something else halfway through. I wouldn't mind knowing the context those snipped quotes where in response to.

She was interviewed on the radio yesterday, TodayFM I think.

Dravokivich

cc87 wrote: »

She was interviewed on the radio yesterday, TodayFM I think.

Havent heard the interview, so cant really judge the quotes too well as the rest of the article has little to no information on the subject.

Marcus Halberstram

Some rofessor on George Hook just now, he's linked to the IRFU. Said supplements contain banned substances and they can be fatal.

Mentioned creatine and whey protein.

discus

18 lads were kicked outta my company recently for failing drugs tests, all 'linked' to supplements. Ridiculous.

FearDark

What a load of bollocks.

siochain

discus wrote: »

18 lads were kicked outta my company recently for failing drugs tests, all 'linked' to supplements. Ridiculous.

Seriously ? What sector/industry do you work in?

What did the tests show up?
What supps and brands were they taking?

Hanley

siochain wrote: »

Seriously ? What sector/industry do you work in?

What did the tests show up?
What supps and brands were they taking?

...yeah. The supplements are why they failed the
Test!!

Greenmachine

Hanley wrote: »

...yeah. The supplements are why they failed the
Test!!

What exactly did they test for. Pretty sure most drug test don't steroids, clenbuterol, sibutramine etc.

discus

We were given a list of sports supplements on informedsport.com, and were told that anything outside that list could potentially fail you. In the first bout of testing with the new regime, a record 18 were caught out in 1 day. Not saying that all of them were sports supplements, but it's obvious that the same academics going on air to talk about the 'dangers of creatine' are the same advising the Army on what should be included in prohibited substances.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10315125/18-soldiers-face-sack-after-Army-doping-test.html

Hanley

Y'all need to go look at the studies where this info is coming from.

They basically test a load of supplements which claim to have stimulant/hormonal boosting effects, and then find that the ones they tested claiming these things may have a negative effect on whether you'd pass a doping test.

To be the best of my knowledge, none of the protein powders or creatines tested had any contaminants.

And it was re-run many years later when there were tighter controls around pro-hormone production and the "contaminated" supps droppped significantly.

cc87

From the IRFUs point of view they want to establish healthy eating habits in their athletes at a young age and by not endorsing the use of supplements for U18 the young players have a greater chance of developing proper eating habits.

Plus the explosion over the last few years of supplements with all sorts of crazy sh!t in them has led to them being stricter in terms what supplements they allow any athlete to use. As they can't have this control with young athletes recommending they don't take any is what they done.

From the point of view of creatine, they don't believe enough research has being carried out about its effects, particularly long term effects on still developing bodies and they aren't the only sporting body with this point of view.

mrnobodyfan87

So should I stop taking this stuff or what?

Mellor

discus wrote: »

We were given a list of sports supplements on informedsport.com, and were told that anything outside that list could potentially fail you. In the first bout of testing with the new regime, a record 18 were caught out in 1 day. Not saying that all of them were sports supplements, but it's obvious that the same academics going on air to talk about the 'dangers of creatine' are the same advising the Army on what should be included in prohibited substances.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10315125/18-soldiers-face-sack-after-Army-doping-test.html

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/10677680.18_soldiers_suspended_by_Army_after_testing_positive_for_performance_enhancing_drug_ephedrine/

Apparently it was a "fat stripper" that contained ephedrine. If ephedrine is now a prescription only medication then its hardly surprising that they were given the boot.

kevpants

The George Hook interview with the guy from UCC who is the chair of the Irish anti doping association (whatever they're called) was a complete mess. Compared with Pat Kenny's interview a few weeks ago it was staggeringly bad. They constantly flopped back and forth between pre-workout and post-workout supplements without any specification around which ones they were talking about, I thought many times to myself "Now they're talking about pre/ post" and vice versa without any break in the hyperbole. Essentially the goal of the UCC professor was labelling anything powdered as being

The same as eating 4 steaks and laced with stimulants that have been linked to heart attacks <insert that marathon runner from London story here> and containing creatine which causes roid rage and has been shown to be fatal.

I listened through unfiltered and uneducated ears, trying to supress my own prior knowledge and the above is an absolutely acceptable conclusion to draw from the interview.

What really gets me is this guy from UCC knows better. He absolutely does. Auld George hadn't a notion and was full of bias and misinformation, none of which UCC guy tried to correct, he kept making references to his days in PREEEEEEEEEZ with all the other latent homosexuals drinking raw eggs and having **** races post training.

Steroids in rugby came into the conversation and UCC guy (chair of the Irish anti doping agency remember) quickly played it out stating steroids were easy to detect and they had found very little in Irish rugby bar a few stupid schoolboys. This really got my goat, I hope this guy is back on defending his position whenever one of these posh meatheads messes up his cycle or accidentally tweets a pic of a vile of test in the background of his latest bulldog pic.

To suggest "don't worry we got this folks" on the CLEAR issue of PED use in Irish rugby and lambasting amateurs for using f**king cheese runoff nearly made me take a chunk out of the steering wheel.

He really let the misinformation flow too, he mentioned these products don't have any regulation in manufacturing... yes they do. They're a food ffs. Three words for ya buddy. Findus Crispy Pancakes. And a fourth word. Neigh.

I'm pretty anti supplement but I'm even more anti-moron.

kevpants

As an afterthought. Since we know a bit about this subject matter and are aghast at the BS spouted. Can you imagine the sh1te we're fed on matters we don't fully understand like economics etc???

rubadub

On TV3 this morning

http://www.tv3.ie/ireland_am_video.php?locID=1.65.74&video=70741

Risking your health

The IRFU have warned that young players may be risking their health by using supplements which could possibly contain banned substances. Head of Anti-Doping at the Irish Sports Council, Una May is with us.
Wednesday, October 23, 2013

Rovi

kevpants wrote: »

As an afterthought. Since we know a bit about this subject matter and are aghast at the BS spouted. Can you imagine the sh1te we're fed on matters we don't fully understand like economics etc???

It's like this for pretty much everything

Listen to or read what passes for 'debate' among the chattering media and the agenda-setters in our society on a subject you know well, and you will despair.

For a truly depressing experience, have a close look at what goes on during the progress of legislation through our legislature on a subject you know well :mad:

hardCopy

Rovi wrote: »

It's like this for pretty much everything

Listen to or read what passes for 'debate' among the chattering media and the agenda-setters in our society on a subject you know well, and you will despair.

For a truly depressing experience, have a close look at what goes on during the progress of legislation through our legislature on a subject you know well :mad:

Enter Fidelma Healy Eames

Alf Veedersane

hardCopy wrote: »

Enter Fidelma Healy Eames

Ugh.

No thanks.

Zombienosh

kevpants

Zombienosh wrote: »

When we talk about bad genetics,THIS is bad genetics.

Da Za

Probably a slight rant now but here goes.

All institutes/federations are corrupt. Like Kevpants said, imagine the kind of utter nonsense we are being fed when it comes to the economy, banking, prices etc when some people don’t have much knowledge of these in the first place.
Corruption is how people make money and get to the top, no one lives a clean life if they’re at the top. Favours, back-handers and all sorts are done to gain an advantage. Most of this that goes on in the private sector is not seen by the general public and most likely never will be.

With regards to this utter tripe of a statement from the IRFU is very very hypocritical to what actual goes on behind closed doors. Yes protein supplements, creatine have become massively popular over the last 5 years and they feel that people, uneducated with regards to these, will lean on them as some sort of crutch.

Look at the physiques of most international rugby players at the moment, these guys are in phenomenal shape. If you think this is all ‘natural’ you are clearly mistaken. The fact that these guys are athletes and their strength training programmes are utter ****e to say the least draws some big conclusions.
The strength coaches involved really haven’t much of a clue. The current Leinster Strength coach has a Westside cert he probably did over a weekend and has the players doing high ass box squats against bands with their knees coming in. They try to mimic actual scenarios in the gym that would occur on the pitch, ie. When are players ever in a full squat position on the pitch, and in doing so is making them piss weak.

If that coach was interviewed about the Westside, conjugate methodology, he wouldn’t know where his ass began and that’s a fact.

Alf Veedersane

kevpants wrote: »

The George Hook interview with the guy from UCC who is the chair of the Irish anti doping association (whatever they're called) was a complete mess. Compared with Pat Kenny's interview a few weeks ago it was staggeringly bad. They constantly flopped back and forth between pre-workout and post-workout supplements without any specification around which ones they were talking about, I thought many times to myself "Now they're talking about pre/ post" and vice versa without any break in the hyperbole. Essentially the goal of the UCC professor was labelling anything powdered as being



I listened through unfiltered and uneducated ears, trying to supress my own prior knowledge and the above is an absolutely acceptable conclusion to draw from the interview.

What really gets me is this guy from UCC knows better. He absolutely does. Auld George hadn't a notion and was full of bias and misinformation, none of which UCC guy tried to correct, he kept making references to his days in PREEEEEEEEEZ with all the other latent homosexuals drinking raw eggs and having **** races post training.

Steroids in rugby came into the conversation and UCC guy (chair of the Irish anti doping agency remember) quickly played it out stating steroids were easy to detect and they had found very little in Irish rugby bar a few stupid schoolboys. This really got my goat, I hope this guy is back on defending his position whenever one of these posh meatheads messes up his cycle or accidentally tweets a pic of a vile of test in the background of his latest bulldog pic.

To suggest "don't worry we got this folks" on the CLEAR issue of PED use in Irish rugby and lambasting amateurs for using f**king cheese runoff nearly made me take a chunk out of the steering wheel.

He really let the misinformation flow too, he mentioned these products don't have any regulation in manufacturing... yes they do. They're a food ffs. Three words for ya buddy. Findus Crispy Pancakes. And a fourth word. Neigh.

I'm pretty anti supplement but I'm even more anti-moron.

Heard that overnight.

I was cringing listening to Hook.

TommyKnocker

Zombienosh wrote: »

I have tears streaming down my face reading this

Alf Veedersane

Every time I see 'intervention', I think of It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia...

Trent Houseboat

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Every time I see 'intervention', I think of It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia...

Can of wine?

Alf Veedersane

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Can of wine?

:D

Transform

my god thats just epic!!!

For all future reference just tell people (your parents/friends etc) to STFU and read this first - http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/7

This Line is critical -

"The sports nutrition specialist should stay up to date regarding the role of nutrition on exercise so they can provide honest and accurate information to their students, clients, and/or athletes about the role of nutrition and dietary supplements on performance and training".

Hanley

Can't post a file upload cos I'm on my phone but I wrote a 10 page review on this last time that pretty much pisses over the entire thing

You can get it here; http://iamjameshanley.com/theshockingtruthaboutsupplements

WARNING: it's full of hyperbole and it requires you to sign up to a mailing list, but you can immediately unsubscribe and keep the book.

If someone has it already, please post it as an attachment.

It really is very valuable

Vet Thrower

kevpants wrote: »

As an afterthought. Since we know a bit about this subject matter and are aghast at the BS spouted. Can you imagine the sh1te we're fed on matters we don't fully understand like economics etc???

There's nothing that bad about the underlying advice here - kids can get all the nutrition they need from food. They've just chosen to use hysteria and scaremongering to get this point across, because they think this is the best way to get through to the person who does the family shopping and doles out the pocket money. It's marketing.

People form their opinions on economics and politics based on stuff that is a lot more stupid than this. There are a very large number of people in the country whose only sources of information on economics and similar matters make the George Hook radio show look like the Harvard Business School.

And they have votes...

Inspector Coptoor

I agree with the premise of the argument.

Kids, even 100kg plus 16-18 year old rugby players, need to nail down their diets first before even thinking about supplements.

As someone at the coal face in this matter, it's very tough as they want "results" yesterday.

The way the IRFU went about this is a disgrace though.

WHIP IT!

I would advise anyone who was annoyed by the original article that prompted this thread to avoid Tony Ward's column in today's Irish Indo...

WHIP IT!

WHIP IT! wrote: »

I would advise anyone who was annoyed by the original article that prompted this thread to avoid Tony Ward's column in today's Irish Indo...

"Supplements: Legalised Cheating" by Tony Ward

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/tony-ward-schools-and-parents-must-show-leadership-over-supplement-abuse-29701229.html

Duck's hoop

"With my hand on my heart, I can promise I never heard any mention of supplements or nutrients, never mind the dreaded 'D' word."

Nutrients.

Marcus Halberstram

I hope people here take the opportunity to give Mr. Ward a lesson or two in the comments section.

daRobot

Newstalk have really let themselves down with the coverage of this.

Jonathan Healy on the lunchtime show, was presenting the case that schoolboys were buying "stuff" in bulk "off the internet" and "peddling" it to their classmates, in reference to Whey Protein, and Creatine.

Unbelievable scaremongering, and Irish journalism at it's very worst.

Oisinjm

WHIP IT! wrote: »

"Supplements: Legalised Cheating" by Tony Ward

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/tony-ward-schools-and-parents-must-show-leadership-over-supplement-abuse-29701229.html

Comments are moderated and they didn't allow mine. Surprising.

Transform

was at the Leinster sports performance lectures at the weekend

Head nutritionist was big time on the ball with everything and said they use it in cycles througout the year with beta alanine

Will do a write up on the various talks

kevpants

Transform wrote: »

was at the Leinster sports performance lectures at the weekend

Head nutritionist was big time on the ball with everything and said they use it in cycles througout the year with beta alanine

Will do a write up on the various talks

With your media presence it would be great if you were able to act as the voice of reason in one of these sh1tfests.

I started typing a response to Tony Ward's article but couldn't manage to get my point across without questioning whether he was the victim of previous serious head injury or possible oxygen deprivation at birth, so I abandoned it.

rolexeagle1

I once found Leinster Rugby branded Creatine Monohydrate in Donnybrook up at their old weights room........

Inspector Coptoor

srumball wrote: »

I once found Leinster Rugby branded Creatine Monohydrate in Donnybrook up at their old weights room........

And?

rolexeagle1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

And?

It made me massive!

long range shooter

srumball wrote: »

I once found Leinster Rugby branded Creatine Monohydrate in Donnybrook up at their old weights room........

Are you saying that this man needs to change his diet then?:rolleyes:


http://www.usnireland.ie/GerMcNamara.asp

Inspector Coptoor

srumball wrote: »

It made me massive!

Oh right.

Carry on Matron