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The "Official Offer" Letter To Banks

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124

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    #92
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    thehill wrote: »
    very interesting thread could this offical offer possibly work i'm finding it so hard to meet the monthly payments

    The test of whether a legal argument will work is if a judge will accept it.

    This has not happened.

    These Freemen say it will work, with a 'because I say so' type argument, which involves misunderstanding legal principles, circular reasoning and various other malfunctions of reason.

    It's complete and utter nonsense.

    If you are in trouble with your mortgage, I would suggest going to talk to the people in MABS for some general advice, and then the Irish Mortgage Holders Association.


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    #93
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Mod:

    I've had to delete your last comment, thehill.

    Please try to be more careful about what you post.


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    #94
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    They're making an apology about their misrepresentations? Outstanding news - who said these people were complete morons that fact, logic and reason would not influence.


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    #95
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    The Mustard wrote: »
    The test of whether a legal argument will work is if a judge will accept it.

    This has not happened.

    Wrong! It has worked in an Irish court.


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    #96
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Froststop wrote: »
    Wrong! It has worked in an Irish court.

    Very interesting; citation please.


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    #97
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Froststop wrote: »
    Wrong! It has worked in an Irish court.

    Source please, preferably an independent verifiable source.


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    #98
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Froststop wrote: »
    Wrong! It has worked in an Irish court.

    That's marvellous. I would also like you to put up the citation for this case.


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    #99
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    If you can link the citation and it says what Vincent says it is I'll be straight on the phone to Vincent to apologise and figure out how I won't need to pay my mortgage going forward.

    Clock is ticking...


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    #100
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Mod:

    thehill, that's the second one of your posts that I've had to delete. Please don't post in this thread again.


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    #101
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    rameire wrote: »
    ah here, were famous.

    327085.jpg

    who do I send my invoice to for official use of a name associated with me, maybe I should ask Ben of the Family Gimproy.


    Fame at last. My mother will be so proud *sniff*


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    #102
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    ukprepper wrote: »
    and while we are fighting (you) and you are fighting (us) know ones fighting (them)

    Who are the mythical 'them' that you have nominated yourselves to protect us against?


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    #103
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Still waiting on this citation, I will need time to read through the case and obviously I'll need to have a chat with Vinny's producer and then probably wait a while for him to deal with his other guests. I'm not going on 5 minutes before the end - I'm with O'Leary on this - I'm not being edited. Also what's not live about the show - why is live in inverted commas - is there a time delay while the signal travels back from his home planet?


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    #104
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Graham wrote: »
    Who are the mythical 'them' that you have nominated yourselves to protect us against?


    ukprepper is taking a holiday and won't be able to respond.


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    #105
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    rameire wrote: »
    ah here, were famous.

    327085.jpg

    who do I send my invoico for official use of a name associated with me, maybe I should ask Ben of the Family Gimroy.

    What significance do they think attaches to the year of joining Boards?

    And seriously, how in God's name could that guy think that he 'destroyed' anything but his own credibility with his argument?


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    #106
    Tom Young
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tom Young


    Glad I didn't make that graphic! Skipped the creakiest of them all.


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    #107
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    thehill wrote: »
    very interesting thread could this offical offer possibly work i'm finding it so hard to meet the monthly payments

    I am not sure if you are sincere. But in case you are, or if anyone else is struggling, then there are solutions now in place. The new website of the Insolvency Service of Ireland explains what can be done: Backontrack.ie. The good thing about this is that any deal you come to is legally binding on your creditors and the whole process is based on actual law, as opposed to wishful thinking.


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    #108
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,710 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Tom Young wrote: »
    Glad I didn't make that graphic! Skipped the creakiest of them all.
    Well, you've marked your card now, Tom!


    Can anyone else remember electing Robbo as our cult leader?


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    #109
    Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Essien


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    Well, you've marked your card now, Tom!


    Can anyone else remember electing Robbo as our cult leader?

    He was democratically elected by one of the other lads at a pub lunch last Saturday.... well that's what the official press release said anyway.


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    #110
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Essien wrote: »
    He was democratically elected by one of the other lads at a pub lunch last Saturday.... well that's what the official press release said anyway.

    No votes required, it's a fairly direct kind of democracy.


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    #111
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    The key to the official offer is performing on the debt to the "maximum" you can afford by proving same to the court. If performance on the debt is proven, a judge can't rule in favour of the bank for eviction. If you perform on a weekly basis also proves your making the effort to pay the debt and is better than payment on a monthly basis. The official offer is not a get out of paying solution if you actually can afford to pay a full loan as agreed in the original loan contract.

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/judge-accepts-that-man-can-t-afford-monthly-payment-of-200-to-bank-1-2193112

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/woman-ordered-to-repay-debt-to-credit-union-27373240.html


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    #112
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Froststop wrote: »
    The key to the official offer is performing on the debt to the "maximum" you can afford by proving same to the court. If performance on the debt is proven, a judge can't rule in favour of the bank for eviction. If you perform on a weekly basis also proves your making the effort to pay the debt and is better than payment on a monthly basis. The official offer is not a get out of paying solution if you actually can afford to pay a full loan as agreed in the original loan contract.

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/judge-accepts-that-man-can-t-afford-monthly-payment-of-200-to-bank-1-2193112

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/woman-ordered-to-repay-debt-to-credit-union-27373240.html

    I must be missing the point there, unless you were trying to make the point that the Courts general take ability to pay into account.


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    #113
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Froststop wrote: »
    The key to the official offer is performing on the debt to the "maximum" you can afford by proving same to the court. If performance on the debt is proven, a judge can't rule in favour of the bank for eviction. If you perform on a weekly basis also proves your making the effort to pay the debt and is better than payment on a monthly basis. The official offer is not a get out of paying solution if you actually can afford to pay a full loan as agreed in the original loan contract.

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/judge-accepts-that-man-can-t-afford-monthly-payment-of-200-to-bank-1-2193112

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/woman-ordered-to-repay-debt-to-credit-union-27373240.html

    A sensible compromise which should be strived for in all cases, with robust proof required, of course. The issue is the hooting loons which make out this is some sort of constitutional right De Valera specifically wrote in - presumably in invisible ink underlined in red or by the number of strings on a harp.

    I personally don't believe anyone should be evicted from a family home unless they are refusing to pay - the problem is that puts me in a camp with some complete fools.


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    #114
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Froststop wrote: »
    The key to the official offer is performing on the debt to the "maximum" you can afford by proving same to the court. If performance on the debt is proven, a judge can't rule in favour of the bank for eviction. If you perform on a weekly basis also proves your making the effort to pay the debt and is better than payment on a monthly basis. The official offer is not a get out of paying solution if you actually can afford to pay a full loan as agreed in the original loan contract.

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/judge-accepts-that-man-can-t-afford-monthly-payment-of-200-to-bank-1-2193112

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/woman-ordered-to-repay-debt-to-credit-union-27373240.html

    You were asked for a legal citation for a successful case on this 'official offer' and all you came up with were some newspaper articles from the Limerick Leader and the Independent.

    In the Independent article, the woman was ordered to pay the full amount of her debt, and there was no mention of an 'official offer'. The Limerick Leader article was about an instalment order, in which a judge makes an order about how much money somebody has to repay every week/month, to enforce payment of a debt. Instalment orders and orders for possession are completely different applications.

    You made a statement and now you are posting irrelevant articles that don't back up what you say.

    You obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about.


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    #115
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    A sensible compromise which should be strived for in all cases, with robust proof required, of course. The issue is the hooting loons which make out this is some sort of constitutional right De Valera specifically wrote in - presumably in invisible ink underlined in red or by the number of strings on a harp.

    I personally don't believe anyone should be evicted from a family home unless they are refusing to pay - the problem is that puts me in a camp with some complete fools.

    I agree Mark, however as I said, it's not to be used as a get out of paying your debt. It's to keep a roof over your head and prevent eviction provided you prove you can't afford to pay the full loan. You must prove you can only pay the "maximum" you can afford after paying the bills required to survive and not the "miniscule amount" as suggested by the OP. If the loan contract requires a repayment of e.g €600/m and you can only afford €100/m after necessities to live. By paying €25/week you prove four fold to perform on the debt and no judge will rule against you unless he thinks your pulling a fast one. When writing the official offer to the bank, staple a cheque for the first payment to the letter, if the cheque is cashed, it is taken that the bank accepted the offer. If they return the cheque, send it again and again as this can be understood as refusal to accept payment.

    That's my take on the Official Offer. I feel the wording (miniscule amount) could put someone in an undesirable position and is unfair to allow anyone to unknowingly offer a bank €10/week if they can afford more per week.


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    #116
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,710 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Froststop wrote: »
    I agree Mark, however as I said, it's not to be used as a get out of paying your debt. It's to keep a roof over your head and prevent eviction provided you prove you can't afford to pay the full loan. You must prove you can only pay the "maximum" you can afford after paying the bills required to survive and not the "miniscule amount" as suggested by the OP. If the loan contract requires a repayment of e.g €600/m and you can only afford €100/m after necessities to live. By paying €25/week you prove four fold to perform on the debt and no judge will rule against you unless he thinks your pulling a fast one. When writing the official offer to the bank, staple a cheque for the first payment to the letter, if the cheque is cashed, it is taken that the bank accepted the offer. If they return the cheque, send it again and again as this can be understood as refusal to accept payment.

    That's my take on the Official Offer. I feel the wording (miniscule amount) could put someone in an undesirable position and is unfair to allow anyone to unknowingly offer a bank €10/week if they can afford more per week.

    Old wives tale.


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    #117
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Froststop wrote: »
    That's my take on the Official Offer.

    A while back you insisted that it was law.

    But you couldn't back up what you said.

    Now it's your 'take' on it.

    That's just not good enough when it comes to people's homes.


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    #118
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    The Mustard wrote: »
    A while back you insisted that it was law.

    But you couldn't back up what you said.

    Now it's your 'take' on it.

    That's just not good enough when it comes to people's homes.

    Proof of Substantial Performance on the debt! Ask your boss, he's well used to dealing with the banks to get his own way!


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    #119
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Froststop wrote: »
    I agree Mark, however as I said, it's not to be used as a get out of paying your debt. It's to keep a roof over your head and prevent eviction provided you prove you can't afford to pay the full loan. You must prove you can only pay the "maximum" you can afford after paying the bills required to survive and not the "miniscule amount" as suggested by the OP. If the loan contract requires a repayment of e.g €600/m and you can only afford €100/m after necessities to live. By paying €25/week you prove four fold to perform on the debt and no judge will rule against you unless he thinks your pulling a fast one. When writing the official offer to the bank, staple a cheque for the first payment to the letter, if the cheque is cashed, it is taken that the bank accepted the offer. If they return the cheque, send it again and again as this can be understood as refusal to accept payment.

    That's my take on the Official Offer. I feel the wording (miniscule amount) could put someone in an undesirable position and is unfair to allow anyone to unknowingly offer a bank €10/week if they can afford more per week.

    Now we're back to spinning this yarn about stapling cheques to letters and acceptance etc. I'm sorry to be blunt but that's rubbish. The case law is familiar to every first year law student and simply does not support what saying.

    This stuff would be fine and there is no issue discussing it. The fact is though there are a number of people who present this as fact to vulnerable, desperate people either to directly cash in or to further their own agendas. That's simply despicable behaviour and the people concerned, should be prosecuted for fraud.


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    #120
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Froststop wrote: »
    Proof of Substantial Performance on the debt! Ask your boss, he's well used to dealing with the banks to get his own way!

    Let's be clear about this. You were asked to produce a legal citation for a case which shows that this 'official offer' carry on actually works in court.

    You failed to produce anything of any relevance whatsover.

    Now you are banging on about proof of substantial performance and advising me to ask 'my boss' about it.

    You don't know what you are talking about, you can't back up what you say, and now you are just posting inane drivel.


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    #121
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    The Mustard wrote: »
    advising me to ask 'my boss' about it.

    I presume that your boss is supposed to be Michael Noonan, because you must be a government shill...?


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