Unsere Mütter, Unsere Väter

boomchicawawa

Ok...I won't panic...but kudos to RTE if they show it at that time with an English title in its original format ! getting excited again....!

riffmongous

tac foley wrote: »

The name is also rather odd, but I'm assuming that the title reflects the standpoint of present day Germans, whose fathers and mothers are represented in the series.

tac

Yeah I think so, particularly since a lot of people might not actually know the lives and stories of their parents and relatives from the war period, as it is not discussed.

tac foley

My late Uncle Micky, who went through the war as a signaller in the Wehrmacht, was an orphan, so he had nobody to remember him except us, after he died in 1980.

tac

riffmongous

tac foley wrote: »

My late Uncle Micky, who went through the war as a signaller in the Wehrmacht, was an orphan, so he had nobody to remember him except us, after he died in 1980.

tac

You said he didnt talk about his wartime much right? I wonder how much knowledge has been lost because people could not or did not want to talk about it.

boomchicawawa

I have a friend in Germany who is trying to find out about his grandfathers service but his grandmother refuses to give permission for him to see the relevant files, his GF served over 11 years in Soviet captivity at wars end and was one of the 'lucky' ones to come back alive. My friend says that when he drank too much, he got morose and cursed the fact that his youth was lost.

Its only now, when he has passed away that my friends curiosity is peaked to find out more. He only remembers bits of the stories that he had no interest in when he was young, but he suspects he was given incorrect information and is frustrated by the red tape that prevents him for accessing the files.

But maybe Grandma knows best in this case

tac foley

That's right. He said that it was all in another life, and left it at that. His old life ended in a ditch at the side of a Highway 57 outside MG on March 1st, 1945, and after that, it was all new. I respected that decision, and never pestered him, even when I was much younger. When we lived in Rheindahlen I used to drive along the road where he had been wounded and left to die, and often wondered where exactly it had been. He thought it was pretty amusing, but never took up our offer to take him back to see the place - I only asked him the one time. He never ever went back to Germany after he arrived in England - in fact, as far as I know, he never ever left England or Wales in the thirty-five years he had left.

My two uncles in Canada never talked much either - both had gone ashore on D-Day, carrying their bicycles over their shoulders. If you look at the famous photo of Canadian troop disembarking, two of them might just have been Tom and Geoff. Geoff died in '74 in a farming accident, and Tom is now 91, and still very lively. Both got written up for medals - Geoff was a sniper - but in both cases all the officers who could have passed the rep on got killed.

tac

HansHolzel

In Günter Wallraff's Von einem der auszog und das Fürchten lernte (1970), Wallraff meets a strange guy on the roof of a heavy industry plant who's a Stalingrad survivor and (post-war) an ex-miner.

To the undercover reporter's astonishment the man nostalgically says of the Russian campaign that those were the days, always on the move, and then rhetorically asks what chance would a guy like him get to go abroad, apart from that.

When asked by the amazed Wallraff if the other stuff (i.e. the filth, cold and death) wasn’t terrible, the man just maintains it wasn’t as bad as the pit.

boomchicawawa

I can understand that the sense of comradeship must have been very appealing for veterans as well and to go through those intense experiences and then return to civy street must have been difficult for them and their families. Its the social history of those times that I find most interesting, the ordinary people thrown into extra ordinary situations. I find the biographies of these individuals captivating,from Holocaust survivors to front line fighters and all the people in between.

Morzadec

This sounds brilliant, will definitely try to watch this.

Not in Ireland/Britain at the moment so if anyone comes across an online link with English subtitles please let me know!

Jawgap

Starts tonight on RTE2......,

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/band-of-brüder-a-german-view-of-wartime-1.1343285

boomchicawawa

Subtitles ...Yay!

tac foley

I'm intrigued, so please tell me what languages you learn in school.

tac

boomchicawawa

I was taught to read English !;)

tac foley

Ah.

tac

BowWow

Now available on the RTE Player.

Cork boy 55

As a television drama its a very good show and worth watching

From a military history/cinematography point of view its not that good is it to be honest, I did not read much going into it other than it was a "blockbuster" and Germany's version of "band of brothers" and the trailer made it look like a large production, but ...
The scale is quite small and the budget appears to quite limited
There's very little action and never appears to be more than a squad on screen at anyone time, I think the only major Military hardware featured was the back of a truck Not exactly the epic portrait of operation Barbarossa i was excepting to see, I don't get the little brother character either.

Still good show but different to what I was expecting.

Manach

The production values are geared to the core 5 characters and their differing experiences of the war. Having finished accounts of the Ostfront in text, it is fairly grim correlation of the clean and crisp strategy employed to that of the bloody unit actions of that war .

boomchicawawa

Well it held my interest, but for me it was more about the characters. Id be interested to see how they develop. The younger brother may become brutalised by war, we saw signs that he was hardening his attitude when he suggested the peasants were sent through the mine field. The nurse was slightly off kilter, she was firm friends with Victor the Jewish character, yet she outed the Jewish doctor without hesitation only regretting it at the last minute. Victors girlfriend's character could have been handled a bit better, she was madly in love one minute and then jumping into bed with the Nazi Dorn the next, I know he was going to further her career and she used him to get Victor an exit visa, but it was done in a very disjointed way in my opinion.

The main character Wilhelm was the one that I could understand the most, he was ashamed of his brothers alleged cowardice but yet he loved him. He was a loyal soldier, yet he was outraged by the killing of the young Jewish girl. He was not happy that he was ordered to shoot the Russian commissar, but he did it even though the audience were left wondering if he would do it. This had a real ring of authenticity about it. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to each of them. I understand your disappointment 'Cork Boy' but I think its more about 5 people caught up in the drama of war and not a 'war movie' as such, but from a personal female point of view it ticked all the boxes!

Snickers Man

Discussion thread on this over on the TV channel. Most people pissed off with the bloody awful subtitling, which, it appears even RTE has apologised for.

Sentences left unfinished. Translations missed etc.

I think it's promising so far, and as boomchicawawa says, it's more about the perspectives of the five main characters than the blockbuster battle of the Boys Toys that some might have been expecting.

Maybe I'm a bit biased. Anything with Katharina Schuttler (Greta) in it is worth watching, IMHO.

boomchicawawa

Maybe I'm a bit biased. Anything with Katharina Schuttler (Greta) in it is worth watching, IMHO.[/quote]


We'll cut a deal....you can have Greta and I'll look after Dorn ! Dear God why do I find handsome bad boys in uniform so appealing ...it's a curse ) lol. I bet he'll become even more evil lad I'll be backtracking next week. I agree about the subtitles . I even knew we were not getting the full translation. The same was said of 'das boot'.

Wibbs

I liked it myself. Translations notwithstanding. From early on I was interested in stories from "the other side". The side we generally hear little of, so the more the merrier.

Stovepipe

@hansholzel, I read somewhere that the death rate of Germans, in industrial accidents as well as winter-related deaths,in the effort to revive shattered towns, cities and industries after WW 2 was off the clock until about 1948, because of the utter lack of health and safety provisions, as well as a physically weakened population. It wasn't til the mid 50s that the population could be regarded as back to even prewar health standards.
regards
Stovepipe

boomchicawawa

Week two has left us with Cliff hangers !!:eek:

Will Viktor, Wilhelm and Greta make it into week three??? Feeling smug that I foresaw Friedhelm becoming more brutalized and Dorn becoming more evil (that wasn't too hard to guess, I know) ...Don't want to put spoilers in, just in case, but as predicted the latter is off my Christmas list !!;)

Charley was the one who surprised me, jumping into the leaba with the aul surgeon!! Ah! should have known that the Doctors always get the nurses

My fingers are crossed for Viktor but I have a good feeling that he will survive the war....and also going out on a limb here.....I suspect Wilhelm will have an unexpected turn of events and hopefully survive until the end of the episode at least.

Friedhelm ? He will be mentally broken by war at the least, he could die in the defense of Berlin.
The girls? I think Charley is in trouble and will probably not have a happy ending and Greta's future looks uncertain too, she will suffer mentally from all the trauma no doubt but will Viktor find her at the end ?

Dorn will def. face a much deserved grisly end me thinks....all to watch out for next week !

boomchicawawa

God damn it Dorn...:eek: I had a feeling today that he's escape to Argentina but the conclusion of his story was probably much more realistic and unjust.......

A bit cheesy at the end with the survivors meeting up and the other times when their paths intertwined but altogether my interest never waned. Still left hanging on whether Wilhelm and Charly got it together, I rather think they did..........but that's just my romantic heart

Stovepipe

Not bad at all. They appear to have had some very heavy academic and technical assistance, if the credits are anything to go by..........Dorn getting away was just an indication of how many did get away, even under open Allied protection.....some of the timing was more than a little cheesy. The Russian female officer intervening just in time, to the second, to prevent the rape of the nurse..........Dorn's wife occupying the Jewish guy's old flat and then the same guy bumping into Dorn in the office? Cue the next series where the Jewish guy kills Dorn and escapes to contribute to the founding of Israel; where the Lieutenant and the nurse marry and their offspring turns into a Neo-nazi...

regards
Stovepipe

boomchicawawa

interesting views on series two 'Stovepipe' and all very plausible ideas .... but I beg to differ on your last point. The generation that were born during or post war in both in the DDR and W.Germany were much more inclined to berate their parents for being sucked in by the Nazi's than they were to be inspired by them.These children also faced a heavy programme of de-nazification in the schools and the media.

I think it's more likely that the third generation with enough time and distance between them and the events would become 'revisionists' and be attracted to the neo-Nazi movement. I'm not sure how big a movement it was/is in Germany, but I suspect they garnered more publicity than their numbers warranted. The strange thing for me is that the movement has support in the countries that either fought against or were occupied by Germany.

I had reason to correspond with a Russian national due to a posting I made on an international history forum, we emailed a few times and she told me about her grandparents, one who had fought against the Germans and the others who were besieged in Leningrad for two years. They were down to eating belts, grass and each other by the end according to her. Turns out this lady has an internet tribute site to the Waffen SS.

When I politely pointed out the war crimes committed against her own people, she said something akin to '**** happens in war' .... Can't confirm if her motivations are neo-Nazi but it was a real WTF moment:eek:

Stallingrad

Was really disappointed by the final episode. The repeated bumping into each other in the vastness of Russia, Victor somehow finding his way to Berlin avoiding both the Germans and the Russians, there was just so much that was so implausible. OK, so liberties were taken to tell a story about 5 individuals, but I feel it could have been done so much better if they had ignored the temptation to constantly bring them together. The acting from the 5 characters was also pretty bland from beginning to end. However, this was a brave attempt to capture the scale and tragedy of the Eastern campaign, I am not sure any film maker will ever want to, or be allowed to tell a truer version of events, which is a shame.

Conmaicne Mara

Stovepipe wrote: »

Dorn's wife occupying the Jewish guy's old flat and then the same guy bumping into Dorn in the office?

That wasn't Dorns wife AFAIR, she was installed in that apartment after Viktors parents were deported. Dorn and the wife had much nicer digs.

Stretching coincidence maybe bumping into him in the office, but google denazification and follow the wiki links. They pretty much gave up on the process in the end because so many Germans were Nazis and the Allies needed Germans to run Germany.

kabakuyu

I enjoyed it,but the coincidental reunions on the Russian front were a little OTT.
While I felt the makers did not hold back on their potrayal of German savagery,they did also manage to remind us that others were just as evil eg,the jew hating Polish Partisans,mentioning that an SS unit was composed of Ukrainians,the actions of the Russians at the base hospital, and the moral bankruptcy of the allies in ignoring the past deeds of ex nazis.
While I know all these things are accurate, I did get a little feeling that there may have been a touch of "sure we were all as bad as each other".

boomchicawawa

Agreed, but all these examples are actually based on historical fact and as disturbing as the were, the worst and most shocking scene for me was the shooting of the little girl by the Einsatzkommando, brutally realistic and so shameful for Germans to watch no doubt.

There is one truth that can't be fudged or evaded, the Germans invaded the Soviet Union, their barbaric actions on that front could never be excused or justified and they ultimately reaped the whirlwind as portrayed in the series.