Unsere Mütter, Unsere Väter

riffmongous

Has anyone else here seen this? A german made tv show following 5 friends through world war 2 and the battles on the eastern front. I enjoyed it a lot, it's a nice change to the usual anglo-centric ww2 storytelling with some good looking battle scenes and it doesn't shy away from depicting some of the everyday war crimes committed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNNUZgFNz8k

I am not sure if it possible to find english subtitles though

Cork boy 55

Where did you watch it?

tac foley

It has yet to appear - if ever - on TVs here in yUK. My wife wouldn't watch it anyhow, since it does not have Welsh subtitles. Boy, is she getting picky these days...

I've watched what you have so far posted, thanks. My Uncle Micky would have liked it, maybe. He really didn't talk much about the war, except to have ambivalent feelings about the 'Amis'. They stole all his belongings - watch, medal ribbons and so on, even when they gave him battlefield first-aid, but also sent him the yUK, where he spent the rest of his life in comparative ease.

tac

tac foley

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Where did you watch it?

Try Vienna, like it reads on his sidebar.

tac

riffmongous

Well I didn't want to post too much more incase of spoilers if anyone does decide to watch it. Yes I saw it over here on tv, but it can be found online if you google it, but unfortunately I can't say much more about that here on boards. It's three 90 minute episodes, if you have basic German you should be able to follow it without too much trouble.. or you can just flit around through the battle scenes.

It also depicts the polish resistance fighters in the countryside as being anti-jewish, apparently it caused a lot of trouble over in poland

Edit: It's known as Generation War in the english speaking world according to wiki

boomchicawawa

Haven't watched it yet, but it seems to have created some controversy on the history forum I'm a member of whereby the historical accuracy is questioned by some and the fact that some of the German characters are portrayed too sympathetically by others, but it does get many good reviews also.

Here's their views
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=197588

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=198627


Personally, I'd like to watch it and decide for myself.

tac foley

What's to spoil? They came second - that's history.

tac

riffmongous

tac foley wrote: »

What's to spoil? They came second - that's history.

tac

It's about one of the other groups involved

riffmongous

boomchicawawa wrote: »

Haven't watched it yet, but it seems to have created some controversy on the history forum I'm a member of whereby the historical accuracy is questioned by some and the fact that some of the German characters are portrayed too sympathetically by others, but it does get many good reviews also.

Here's their views
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=197588

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=198627


Personally, I'd like to watch it and decide for myself.

Hm, well it shows them killing a lot of innocent people that's for sure, I see people complain mostly about the fact that neither of the (two) soldiers were sadistic enough but I think that would be more playing to stereotypes, they certainly do kill a lot of people just not because they want to. There are also plenty of sadistic germans in there too, they are just not the main characters.

Plus it's not a documentary, it's about how the war affected and changed the five friends. The development of Friedholm I found to be quite good, right up until the end.

Manach

Thanks for the heads up on this. The only German films I've viewed of WWII were 'Downfall' and as a secondary issue in the excellent 'Miracle of Berne'.

riffmongous

Manach wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up on this. The only German films I've viewed of WWII were 'Downfall' and as a secondary issue in the excellent 'Miracle of Berne'.

I never heard of the The Miracle of Bern before, the story sounds quite interesting, I will give that a look myself later thanks.

BlaasForRafa

Manach wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up on this. The only German films I've viewed of WWII were 'Downfall' and as a secondary issue in the excellent 'Miracle of Berne'.

You've not watched Das Boot?

I'll have to track this series down and have a look. As regards criticism of the series, I guess not all people realise that not all germans were nazis and they weren't all ruthless baby-killers.

Dr Strange

Here's some info on it. Glad it will be shown with English subtitles later this year so my English-speaking friends can watch it too. Saw it in Berlin earlier this year and I think that along with Das Boot and Der Untergang (Downfall) it is one of the better films/series depicting what people went through, particularly ordinary Germans.

I am glad that I was able to get most of my grandfather's and great uncles' stories about their time in various branches of the German armed forces during WWII. They were more open about it than some of my classmates grandparents/family members and I managed to retain most of the information. Will have to write it down so it doesn't get lost.

Anyway, here's a Wikipedia entry for the series , which will be called Generation War in the English version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_War

Also worth a watch is Heimat (A German Chronicle):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimat_(film)

Tony EH

boomchicawawa wrote: »

Haven't watched it yet, but it seems to have created some controversy on the history forum I'm a member of whereby the historical accuracy is questioned by some and the fact that some of the German characters are portrayed too sympathetically by others, but it does get many good reviews also.

Here's their views
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=197588

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=198627


Personally, I'd like to watch it and decide for myself.

That site has taken a severe nosedive from the heights it used to reach a decade ago. I wouldn't take too much stock in what a lot of people have to say over there to be honest.

As for the show, I have "acquired" it, but have yet to watch it. But, I've heard both good and bad things about it. I've no doubt that it suffers from the usual cliches and stereotypes, but to a "lesser" extent than other shows.

But given how TV and film have portrayed the German soldier in the past, I won't be holding my breath for anything earth shattering.

boomchicawawa

I agree totally about 'Das Boot' I have the full mini series, 6 hours ! I appreciated the extra scenes that even the directors cut had left out. I would also recommend 'Stalingrad' made in 1991, I've only seen it on you tube, it was hard to find a version with English subtitles but well worth looking for, again the theme is the futility of war and the hardship of fighting on the Eastern Front. 'The Downfall' is of course a classic as it tries to be as authentic as it can with the story of the last days of the 1000 year Reich.

Growing up with the 'Hollywood' version of the war made me thirst to see things 'from the other side'. I just got sick of seeing 'GI Joe' win the war singlehandedly, the only Germans in these films were the sadistic, evil Gestapo types, with scars and leather coats, the only smiles on their faces were when they were stubbing out their cigarettes on poor GI Joes head when he was tied to a chair as Fritz barked ' Ve have Vays of making you talk' It was enough to send all right thinking males in the western world into a frenzy of indignation at poor GI Joes plight, from a female point of view, I was always a bit torn, while I felt sorry for poor Joe, I couldn't help thinking that Fritz looked quite dashing in his 'Hugo Boss' ensemble' :P Ah Wimen !

Latterly of course, in my opinion, Hollywood redeemed itself with Schindlers List, Saving Private Ryan and The Pianist. This new series would interest me, I know the Germans have struggled with how to portray this painful period of their history, I think they are the hardest on themselves, each film brings out a clammer of dissenting voices from their own people. I couldn't bear to watch the English dubbed version, for me it takes away from the authenticity, I hope a subtitled version will be on a home channel soon.

Dr Strange

boomchicawawa wrote: »

... the only Germans in these films were the sadistic, evil Gestapo types, with scars and leather coats ...

The reason why the Germans have scars in these films is that it was and (still is in some old university fraternities) a "badge of honour" and shows that you have not only attended university but were part of a university fraternity with strict rules. It was a type of duelling which took place between fraternity brothers, but not because of any insult like other duels.

So, at the time, as well as WWI, most German soldiers with a scar would actually be officer class. Here's an English explanation on Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_scar

riffmongous

Preusse wrote: »

The reason why the Germans have scars in these films is that it was and (still is in some old university fraternities) a "badge of honour" and shows that you have not only attended university but were part of a university fraternity with strict rules. It was a type of duelling which took place between fraternity brothers, but not because of any insult like other duels.

So, at the time, as well as WWI, most German soldiers with a scar would actually be officer class. Here's an English explanation on Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_scar

The Burschenschaften that still exist have quite a bad reputation in Austria amongst all non right wing people. As far as I have heard some of the groups still do some duelling



http://www.heute.at/news/oesterreich/wien/art23652,847435

boomchicawawa

Otto Skorzeny comes to mind, but as he was W.SS I'm sure the Prussian 'Von's' looked down their nose at him, I think he got his scars duelling all the same. What about the 'monocles' that were another Hollywood must have , any tradition with them ?

Cork boy 55

It [Unsere Mütter, Unsere Väter] is going to be on BB2
Link is from August it says "later this year."


John Plunkett
The Guardian, Sunday 18 August 2013 18.44 BST

BBC2 to air acclaimed German drama series Generation War
Dubbed a 'German Band of Brothers', series is groundbreaking, violent depiction of five friends during period 1941-1945

Link to guardian

statesaver

It's on RTE 2 next Sunday. Happy fooking days

HansHolzel

tac foley wrote: »

What's to spoil? They came second - that's history.

tac

"During the war of 1914-18 the English working class were in contact with foreigners to an extent that is rarely possible. The sole result was that they brought back a hatred of all Europeans, except the Germans, whose courage they admired. In four years on French soil they did not even acquire a liking for wine. The insularity of the English, their refusal to take foreigners seriously, is a folly that has to be paid for very heavily from time to time."

George Orwell, England Your England, 1941

boomchicawawa

Tks a mill for the tip ! Will set my series link as we speak :cool:

boomchicawawa

statesaver wrote: »

It's on RTE 2 next Sunday. Happy fooking days

Can't find it !!! where did you get the info, could it be the following Sunday ?

statesaver

RTÉ Two, Starts Sunday 17th November, 9.00pm

It seems they are calling it Generation War in non German speaking countries and not Unsere Mütter, Unsere Väter.

http://www.rte.ie/mediasales/television/programming-rtetwo-highlights.html#war

boomchicawawa

Oh God, I'm getting a bad feeling on this...do you think they have dubbed it into English !!!!!

riffmongous

boomchicawawa wrote: »

Oh God, I'm getting a bad feeling on this...do you think they have dubbed it into English !!!!!

God I would hope not

boomchicawawa

That would really take away from the enjoyment for me.....fingers crossed, but the name change is ominous..........:(

statesaver

Pretty sure it will be subtitled.

Name change is probably done because most people will not know what Unsere Mütter, Unsere Väter means.

Don't think we've anything to worry about

boomchicawawa

I'll hold you to that !!

riffmongous

The BBC article where it talks about their plans to show it says it will be subtitled

tac foley

I guess it's because calling it 'Our mothers, our fathers' does not easily roll off the tongue.

The name is also rather odd, but I'm assuming that the title reflects the standpoint of present day Germans, whose fathers and mothers are represented in the series.

tac