PIKE ARE NATIVE - IFI

jkchambers

I never thought that I would be able to post this
http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-releases/new-study-reveals-pike-native-to-ireland.html

Bizzum

The power of DNA analysis;)

A lot of reading in the pdf file linked at the bottom of the article.

bencarvosso

A lot of people on here very quiet..... this is big news

gary29428

Very interesting reading for sure. I can only hope it might stop the mass slaughter of pike in gill nets on Corrib every February....somehow I doubt it.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Budawanny

they took the download down for the moment so i cant check.
Im not sure if it mentions Corrib specifically, but the point with all species is that they should not be allowed to be introduced to places where they are not native. Just because there is an indication that Pike maybe native to parts of Ireland does not mean its ok for it to exist in places in Ireland where it is not native.

ardinn

Budawanny wrote: »

but the point with all species is that they should not be allowed to be introduced to places where they are not native. Just because there is an indication that Pike maybe native to parts of Ireland does not mean its ok for it to exist in places in Ireland where it is not native.

Disagree entirely - but opinions n all that!!

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Its amazing news. I honestly cant see how IFI would get away with the gill netting of pike (and any other fish that swims into the gill net) from the western lakes any more. Its a total waste of money, as pike and trout have lived there side by side for the last 8k years.

Pj!

Budawanny wrote: »

they took the download down for the moment so i cant check.
Im not sure if it mentions Corrib specifically, but the point with all species is that they should not be allowed to be introduced to places where they are not native. Just because there is an indication that Pike maybe native to parts of Ireland does not mean its ok for it to exist in places in Ireland where it is not native.

It would appear that pike are very much native to Corrib.

They seem to be non-native to the Barrow and the Lee. But that's probably not much use to the trouty folk...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Budawanny wrote: »

they took the download down for the moment so i cant check.
Im not sure if it mentions Corrib specifically, but the point with all species is that they should not be allowed to be introduced to places where they are not native. Just because there is an indication that Pike maybe native to parts of Ireland does not mean its ok for it to exist in places in Ireland where it is not native.

That doesn't hold at all. If any species is native then it is native to the country and not parts of it.

breghall

Vihaan Sparse Speakeasy wrote: »

That doesn't hold at all. If any species is native then it is native to the country and not parts of it.

So can i ask them to stock up the Slaney then, and save me travelling for miles to do some piking :P

ardinn

breghall wrote: »

So can i ask them to stock up the Slaney then, and save me travelling for miles to do some piking :P

I live right on the slaney too - Do it!!!!!!!!

mathepac

Vihaan Sparse Speakeasy wrote: »

That doesn't hold at all. If any species is native then it is native to the country and not parts of it.

That's soooo not true dude. Sarah Palins are native to Alaska but not Florida.

(I know she was born in Idaho (" I'se da Ho man, I'se da Ho") but that spoils the joke)

Flysfisher

Pike should not be introduced to rivers and lakes where our native fish are present.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Flysfisher wrote: »

Pike should not be introduced to rivers and lakes where our native fish are present.

According to the article Pike are probably our only native freshwater fish!

al_wal

Read this book a few years again which explains how many of our coarse fish came to the Islands in the west of Europe. Well worth a read. Even better now with the good news. http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/life-sciences/ecology-and-conservation/silent-summer-state-wildlife-britain-and-ireland

al_wal

Flysfisher wrote: »

Pike should not be introduced to rivers and lakes where our native fish are present.

I would agree with that and that should be true for all fish native or non native.

Zzippy

Vihaan Sparse Speakeasy wrote: »

That doesn't hold at all. If any species is native then it is native to the country and not parts of it.

Sorry but that's BS. Species have a native range, which is the area where they have naturally established. Pike are native to parts of Ireland. Pike are not found in lakes in Connemara, for example, so they are not native to Connemara. If they were introduced to Lough Inagh they would be an invasive species there.

Vihaan Sparse Speakeasy wrote: »

According to the article Pike are probably our only native freshwater fish!

No, salmon, trout, eels and lamprey also established naturally, as they are diadromous species.

ardinn wrote: »

Disagree entirely - but opinions n all that!!

So you think people should be allowed to move fish around and introduce new species to different waterbodies? That would be illegal.

Pj! wrote: »

It would appear that pike are very much native to Corrib.

They seem to be non-native to the Barrow and the Lee. But that's probably not much use to the trouty folk...

The article doesn't say anything about pike being native to Corrib, just to Ireland. You're extrapolating without any basis. Pike may be native to Corrib or they may have been introduced 150 years ago - the data is not there in this study to say which is true.

Budawanny

Vihaan Sparse Speakeasy wrote: »

That doesn't hold at all. If any species is native then it is native to the country and not parts of it.

That is both incorrect and irrelevant. you simply cannot go around playing god with Eco systems just because the species you want to introduce exists within a man made political or geographic boundary.

Budawanny

As an example, if someone introduced pike into one of the last few Artic Char refuges in Ireland , simply because Pike are native to Cavan, They are seriously guilty of a crime against nature.

dodderangler

gary29428 wrote: »

Very interesting reading for sure. I can only hope it might stop the mass slaughter of pike in gill nets on Corrib every February....somehow I doubt it.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Same on derevara

Macy0161

Zzippy wrote: »

The article doesn't say anything about pike being native to Corrib, just to Ireland. You're extrapolating without any basis. Pike may be native to Corrib or they may have been introduced 150 years ago - the data is not there in this study to say which is true.

They shouldn't be killed in the meantime until it is confirmed, given this study though.

Zzippy

Macy0161 wrote: »

They shouldn't be killed in the meantime until it is confirmed, given this study though.

I didn't say they should!

ardinn

Zzippy wrote: »

So you think people should be allowed to move fish around and introduce new species to different waterbodies? That would be illegal.

No - But a blanket ban on introducing species to waters where they would

a) Flourish
b) Be of benefit the that particular body of water

Is silly and shortsighted.

If any animal or fish helps an area they should be introduced, simple.

I'm not saying someone should take it upon themselves to introduce species to areas they are not native but if proper research show an area would benefit then its a no brainer!

Zzippy

ardinn wrote: »

No - But a blanket ban on introducing species to waters where they would

a) Flourish
b) Be of benefit the that particular body of water

Is silly and shortsighted.

If any animal or fish helps an area they should be introduced, simple.

I'm not saying someone should take it upon themselves to introduce species to areas they are not native but if proper research show an area would benefit then its a no brainer!

The EU Habitats Directive is quite clear - species cannot be introduced to any habitat where they are not native. I know in the past species were transferred all over the place, but this is just not possible anymore under the existing legal framework. Ever heard of the "law of unintended consequences"?

ardinn

Zzippy wrote: »

The EU Habitats Directive is quite clear - species cannot be introduced to any habitat where they are not native. I know in the past species were transferred all over the place, but this is just not possible anymore under the existing legal framework. Ever heard of the "law of unintended consequences"?

I'm not debating whether or not it is legal - my point is that in some cases it would be beneficial and should be looked at case by case. for any species - be it land sea or air creatures. Not just a blanket ban!

Anyone who forms an opinion before they hear the issue is an idiot!

I may have pulled away from the main point a bit, I am not looking for pike to be introduced anywhere.

Zzippy

ardinn wrote: »

I'm not debating whether or not it is legal - my point is that in some cases it would be beneficial and should be looked at case by case. for any species - be it land sea or air creatures. Not just a blanket ban!

Anyone who forms an opinion before they hear the issue is an idiot!

I may have pulled away from the main point a bit, I am not looking for pike to be introduced anywhere.

Every habitat over time, no matter how many species it contains, finds a balance. Environmental law understandably strives to conserve habitats as they are, since nature has found a balance in that habitat. Meddling with habitats by introducing alien species (to that habitat) inevitably upsets the balance, and can have quite unintended consequences. It is illegal for very good reasons. Calling people idiots because they don't agree is, quite frankly, idiotic...

Flysfisher

Looks like this report is causing a bit of a stir, anyway I don't buy it for one minute. Pure nonsense.

ardinn

Zzippy wrote: »

Every habitat over time, no matter how many species it contains, finds a balance. Environmental law understandably strives to conserve habitats as they are, since nature has found a balance in that habitat. Meddling with habitats by introducing alien species (to that habitat) inevitably upsets the balance, and can have quite unintended consequences. It is illegal for very good reasons. Calling people idiots because they don't agree is, quite frankly, idiotic...

Thats not what I said but if you want to spin it that way go ahead!

dodderangler

Zzippy wrote: »

Every habitat over time, no matter how many species it contains, finds a balance.

Over a long long time it will
How many years are you talking here???
I'm just curious because in a way, introducing species to other lakes where they aren't present can be a huge downfall on the local species. One example would be to put perch in let's say the dodder.
They'd have it destroyed in year or two and the trout would slowly die off. Not entirely die off but would suffer alot giving the perch appetite for minnow and insects.
Another example though not related to fishing is the mink.
Released by "do gooders" a good while ago and so far local wildlife are still being destroyed by them.
IMO our local wildlife will never adapt to the mink. Same goes for species being put in places they aren't originally present

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Flysfisher wrote: »

Looks like this report is causing a bit of a stir

ive only seen a handful of people online not believe it

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

dodderangler wrote: »

Over a long long time it will
How many years are you talking here???
I'm just curious because in a way, introducing species to other lakes where they aren't present can be a huge downfall on the local species. One example would be to put perch in let's say the dodder.
They'd have it destroyed in year or two and the trout would slowly die off. Not entirely die off but would suffer alot giving the perch appetite for minnow and insects.
Another example though not related to fishing is the mink.
Released by "do gooders" a good while ago and so far local wildlife are still being destroyed by them.
IMO our local wildlife will never adapt to the mink. Same goes for species being put in places they aren't originally present

There is no real answer, as it needs to be taken on a case by case situation. It took the Zander in the UK around 20-30 years to strike a balance.