Why does Ireland put up with it?

Frank Lee Midere

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

those domestic tourism companies also get the 12.5% you know, not just the big evil multnationals

Along with a 9% vat rate until today.

The personal tax paid by multinational workers is essential to the economy.

UCDVet

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

It's pretty simple, IMHO. Who exactly do you think is going to be willing to take to the streets of tax increases?

The young? They don't care too much, they're fighting just to get jobs (as a whole). They're emigrating in droves, and the ones leaving are exactly the types that would be willing to take big risks to bring about change - but they aren't stupid. They know it's easier and more beneficial for them to go somewhere else, get a good job, and start a good life.

The old? Unlikely. A large percentage of taxes are paid to them. They aren't going to picket anything but a reduction in their benefits.

The unemployed? Same deal. They want jobs, opportunity - but you want lower taxes. They aren't stupid, taxes fund them.

The rich? Why? The rich are already doing great and they can emigrate more easily than anyone else. They have more to lose than anyone else...and they are a very small percentage of the population.

So, who does that leave? Working upper-lower class to working upper-middle class folk. And they're busy working their jobs, paying their bills, raising their family. They aren't happy with the situation, but they've got a lot to lose. They aren't stupid either, and they know one politician is about the same as the next....if they go and walk outside protesting for a few hours, nothing is going to change.

Voting won't fix it.
Casual protesting between work hours won't fix it.

Are we willing to riot over it? No.

So there you go. Things just keep moving along as they tend to do. As long as people are getting their bills paid, they'll be content. And as long as people who are working have something left to lose, they'll keep their head down and try to do the best they can for them and their families.

dodderangler

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

Course we give a sh1t. But we'd much rather moan about it to friends family and neighbours and its usually a big part of the chat in smoking area outsides pubs with the other moan bags.
Alot easier to moan about it than do anything bout it

biko

Stay in school.

munchkin_utd

if someone will tell me how 15billion income in income tax plus about 7 in prsi can pay for a budget that starts with expenditure of a 15billion medical system and 20billion in social welfare BEFORE even looking at the other 30odd billion in Education and Justice and Transport and everything else.
Sure feck it, water + sewage even costs a billion a year for something that is "free".

And thats nothing to do with the banks or repression or lies or whatever your having today.
Its just crazy maths and either the income needs to go up or the expenditure down and at the moment the gigantic gap in normal (non bank bailout) spending is just bonkers.

force eleven

There is still a cultural taboo in that protesting against authority in this country is seen as wrong. Not by everyone, but by swathes of the middle classes. It has to do with our colonial past, our doffing of caps to our lords and ladies. We didn't want to be seen upsetting the apple cart. Yes sir, no sir, that type of thing.

donegal__road

All eyes on the American dollar.. if it collapses, we will know what problems really are.

KyussBishop

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

All I ever hear is people complaining about it, certainly not accepting it.
The same people aren't offering any solutions themselves though and are bemoaning everyone else not doing anything, but not themselves.

There's not a lack of solutions, all the possible 'solutions' are removed from acceptable discourse. You can't discuss any of them (no matter how well you've learned about them), without attracting immediate rebuke - combine this, with the fact that the solutions have a learning curve, and most people just don't want to learn about them (they want to avoid the fog of controversy/arguments it generates - making muddying debate on economics, a very useful way to prevent anyone learning and of disempowering people).


Even though people know the management/causes of the crisis go right up to an EU level, they look at solutions purely at a local/Irish level, when actual solutions need to come from the EU (combined, the EU's debt to GDP ratio leaves huge room for EU-wide spending without tax increases).

Our government can't do a single useful thing to resolve the crisis, unless they are working harder within Europe and trying to co-operate more directly with other affected nations - there's no political appetite at all for this anywhere in Europe though, so I don't think this is a realistic solution, which makes us have to question whether we still want to be in the monetary union come the next crisis.

There is no solution coming from Europe, Germany pretty much ensures it; we're going to get through the economic crisis, but it's going to probably be a decade and a half still before we're anywhere near where we were beforehand (with the debt still lasting generations), whereas actual solutions could have Europe there within the decade (and actually recovering, not letting the full impact of the crisis grind-out through austerity).


It's incredibly stupid to have a monetary union, without also combining that with an EU institution capable of using EU-debt, to fund spending (i.e. pretty much centralizing government within Europe) - it ensures austerity every time there is a crisis.
It should be an all-or-nothing decision; either 1: A monetary union + some kind of EU institution capable of using EU-debt to spend, or 2: Neither.

We don't want to still be in this broken system by the time the next crisis comes around, but it looks like we will. We need to fix this (nothing has been fixed thus far...), or we need to get out before we are hammered by the next crisis again (which I'd hope we didn't need to do, but I just don't see any possibility for reform in Europe).

Eight Ball

As long as people sit on their hands they deserve all that's coming and all that's gone.

pundy

because it's a dirty cold wet rock in the north atlantic ocean and we're basically seagulls.

5live

Deleted User wrote: »

Not if we bankrupt the country so much that we topple the government, then we all form small independent communes, and just go back to bartering eggs and the like.

I got lots of eggs:P

I'm gonna be RIICCCCHHHHH:D

donegal.

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Protesting won't change anything.Voting will.

The strongest weapon the citizens have and they still don't use it.

didn't we try that at the last election ? i didn't notice much change.