Why does Ireland put up with it?

creep

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

Witcher

You'll find your answer in one of the 500 previous threads on this topic.

MonkstownHoop

Join the protests or STFU

H2UMrsRobinson

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

We come up with our own new taxes - see Sugar Tax thread- cos were not paying enough fecking tax already.

hatrickpatrick

Ireland is suffering from a sort of national Stockholm Syndrome at the moment. Depressing to see in action. People have had it drilled into them that they deserve the injustice they are facing, and that's difficult to battle against when it's being pedalled by pretty much the entire establishment.

the_syco

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

Because the tax pays for the social welfare. Look at how **** or non existant the social welfare is of the countries that protested, and you'll find out quickly that we've only those working should protest, but we're usually too busy working...

The Pheasant2

We had a national vote in favour of austerity - we gotta pay our debts

Femme_Fatale

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ireland is suffering from a sort of national Stockholm Syndrome at the moment. Depressing to see in action. People have had it drilled into them that they deserve the injustice they are facing, and that's difficult to battle against when it's being pedalled by pretty much the entire establishment.

All I ever hear is people complaining about it, certainly not accepting it.
The same people aren't offering any solutions themselves though and are bemoaning everyone else not doing anything, but not themselves.

mike65

Deep down we know that debts (even those run up by stupid governments and banks) have to be paid down to the point that the rest of the world will lend us some more money to erm, pay off in the future.

OriginV

No point rioting or that, Will only cost the goverment even more.

SafeSurfer

More people in Ireland are employed in the domestic tourism industry than by multi nationals. Yet the 12.5% corporation tax is a sacred cow which almost all political parties refuse to consider increasing.
Tomorrow the vat rate on our tourism industry will be increased despite the creation of 15,000 jobs in the sector as a result of the imitative.

Corporate profits have escaped any charge on their profits despite the application of a "universal" social charge on the incomes of all citizens.

Why are ordinary Irish workers continuing to subsidise the multi million euro profits of multi national corporations which are largely repatriated to their already wealthy shareholders.

OriginV

OriginV wrote: »

No point rioting or that, Will only cost the goverment even more.

Not if we bankrupt the country so much that we topple the government, then we all form small independent communes, and just go back to bartering eggs and the like.

Witcher

OriginV wrote: »

No point rioting or that, Will only cost the goverment even more.

Or people their lives like in Greece when protestors set a bank on fire and killed 3 people including a pregnant woman.

SV

Don't know what you're talking about, the dole is being increased to 350 tomorrow, everyone gets free private health insurance and tax is reduced to 1 percent. You heard it here first!

Celly Smunt

Protesting won't change anything.Voting will.

The strongest weapon the citizens have and they still don't use it.

SafeSurfer

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Protesting won't change anything.Voting will.

The strongest weapon the citizens have and they still don't use it.

I think many people don't vote because they realise it doesn't change anything. And I say that completely without irony.

Celly Smunt

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Protesting won't change anything.Voting will.

The strongest weapon the citizens have and they still don't use it.

It's become like trying to decide between getting syphilis or gonorrhea at this stage, both are gonna sting but it's up in the air which one will affect you worse in the long term.

jackthetrader

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

People dont care that much. I mean a normal society would have revolted by now, right ?

Celly Smunt

Deleted User wrote: »

It's become like trying to decide between getting syphilis or gonorrhea at this stage, both are gonna sting but it's up in the air which one will affect you worse in the long term.

It's not 100% what you vote.It's that you vote in the first place.

No vote is no representation,the reason pensions are still the way they are is because pensioners scare the shite out of the government because they'll always turn up at the polls.If the middle aged and young aren't bothered to vote then the government will continue to target them as there will be no real threat come election time.

An Riabhach

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

Because there isn't a damn thing we can do about it-apart from protesting,which merely shows publicly that we are against it,but does nothing else.
Possibly a reason for people emigrating too,as well as the jobs situation here.
Emigration-another thing the government doesn't give a flying fück about.

hfallada

Because in the long run its the right thing. Why should the government keep borrowing when we are living beyond our means. And then except the future generations who didnt cause the problem to pay?

I hate BS that austerity isnt fair. Neither is expecting all twenty somethings to pay for the debts of a generation who thought they should be entitled to being over paid, massive waste in services, huge welfare bills and paying **** all tax. If I heard another person giving out about austerity and yet they have worked a day in their life. I would drop kick them, but then their medical bill would be paid for by the tax payer.

Celly Smunt

Celly Smunt wrote: »

It's not 100% what you vote.It's that you vote in the first place.

No vote is no representation,the reason pensions are still the way they are is because pensioners scare the shite out of the government because they'll always turn up at the polls.If the middle aged and young aren't bothered to vote then the government will continue to target them as there will be no real threat come election time.

Successive governments have been targetting the margins of society who don't have the time, or the means, to get out and vote. They figured the oldies wouldn't mobilise but they did.

The state pension isn't all that generous anyway, what is generous is the full political pensions provided for only a handful of years service. Would be great to see that issue tackled.

Also, having people making more money in retirement than they were ever earning while employed is a joke.

Celly Smunt

Deleted User wrote: »

Successive governments have been targetting the margins of society who don't have the time, or the means, to get out and vote. They figured the oldies wouldn't mobilise but they did.

Polls open until late in the evening.
Means? what means?,everybody has access to get to the polling station whether it's walking to the local school,driving,bus,cycling or even jumping in the car with the neighbours.

Inexcusable excuses in this day and age.

awec

SafeSurfer wrote: »

More people in Ireland are employed in the domestic tourism industry than by multi nationals. Yet the 12.5% corporation tax is a sacred cow which almost all political parties refuse to consider increasing.
Tomorrow the vat rate on our tourism industry will be increased despite the creation of 15,000 jobs in the sector as a result of the imitative.

Corporate profits have escaped any charge on their profits despite the application of a "universal" social charge on the incomes of all citizens.

Why are ordinary Irish workers continuing to subsidise the multi million euro profits of multi national corporations which are largely repatriated to their already wealthy shareholders.

Can you back this up with something?

Also, what does "domestic tourism" entail?

Anyway, the reason the corp tax is low is well documented by now. This red herring is raised all the time by the left.

Celly Smunt

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Polls open until late in the evening.
Means? what means?,everybody has access to get to the polling station whether it's walking to the local school,driving,bus,cycling or even jumping in the car with the neighbours.

Inexcusable excuses in this day and age.

I dunno, might be difficult for a full-time carer or a single mother to make it over to a polling station.

Sure it's not like it matters, wouldn't they only be voting for one of them working class parties anyway.

Richard Hillman

People want lower taxes yet the left wing parties* are gaining popularity??? The PDs were a party that had low taxes on the agenda but were voted out of existence.

If we want lower taxes we need to make cuts to things like social welfare and public services.



*IMO they are all economically left wing. We have no centre right party in the Dail.

awec

Richard Hillman wrote: »

People want lower taxes yet the left wing parties* are gaining popularity??? The PDs were a party that had low taxes on the agenda but were voted out of existence.

If we want lower taxes we need to make cuts to things like social welfare and public services.



*IMO they are all economically left wing. We have no centre right party in the Dail.

People don't really want lower taxes.

What people want is to raise taxes for everyone else so they can pay less.

razorgil

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

there comes a point when people are just worn out by all this shít. consecutive governments promise much, but deliver nothing, forgetting all their promises as soon as they get elected, regardless of ideologies. as soon as they get the taste of power, they forget about us, we've suddenly become an irritation to them, and that will never change.

Cookie_Monster

SafeSurfer wrote: »

More people in Ireland are employed in the domestic tourism industry than by multi nationals. Yet the 12.5% corporation tax is a sacred cow which almost all political parties refuse to consider increasing.

those domestic tourism companies also get the 12.5% you know, not just the big evil multnationals

the_syco

SafeSurfer wrote: »

More people in Ireland are employed in the domestic tourism industry than by multi nationals.

Can you provide a link to this, as it sounds very suspicious.

Systemic Risk

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

Because we all got together while you were in the toilet and decided to fûck with your head.

Frank Lee Midere

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

those domestic tourism companies also get the 12.5% you know, not just the big evil multnationals

Along with a 9% vat rate until today.

The personal tax paid by multinational workers is essential to the economy.

UCDVet

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

It's pretty simple, IMHO. Who exactly do you think is going to be willing to take to the streets of tax increases?

The young? They don't care too much, they're fighting just to get jobs (as a whole). They're emigrating in droves, and the ones leaving are exactly the types that would be willing to take big risks to bring about change - but they aren't stupid. They know it's easier and more beneficial for them to go somewhere else, get a good job, and start a good life.

The old? Unlikely. A large percentage of taxes are paid to them. They aren't going to picket anything but a reduction in their benefits.

The unemployed? Same deal. They want jobs, opportunity - but you want lower taxes. They aren't stupid, taxes fund them.

The rich? Why? The rich are already doing great and they can emigrate more easily than anyone else. They have more to lose than anyone else...and they are a very small percentage of the population.

So, who does that leave? Working upper-lower class to working upper-middle class folk. And they're busy working their jobs, paying their bills, raising their family. They aren't happy with the situation, but they've got a lot to lose. They aren't stupid either, and they know one politician is about the same as the next....if they go and walk outside protesting for a few hours, nothing is going to change.

Voting won't fix it.
Casual protesting between work hours won't fix it.

Are we willing to riot over it? No.

So there you go. Things just keep moving along as they tend to do. As long as people are getting their bills paid, they'll be content. And as long as people who are working have something left to lose, they'll keep their head down and try to do the best they can for them and their families.

dodderangler

creep wrote: »

Why do the us the people of Ireland just keel over when the government continue to tax the crap out of us or do we not just give a ****e any more.

Course we give a sh1t. But we'd much rather moan about it to friends family and neighbours and its usually a big part of the chat in smoking area outsides pubs with the other moan bags.
Alot easier to moan about it than do anything bout it

biko

Stay in school.

munchkin_utd

if someone will tell me how 15billion income in income tax plus about 7 in prsi can pay for a budget that starts with expenditure of a 15billion medical system and 20billion in social welfare BEFORE even looking at the other 30odd billion in Education and Justice and Transport and everything else.
Sure feck it, water + sewage even costs a billion a year for something that is "free".

And thats nothing to do with the banks or repression or lies or whatever your having today.
Its just crazy maths and either the income needs to go up or the expenditure down and at the moment the gigantic gap in normal (non bank bailout) spending is just bonkers.

force eleven

There is still a cultural taboo in that protesting against authority in this country is seen as wrong. Not by everyone, but by swathes of the middle classes. It has to do with our colonial past, our doffing of caps to our lords and ladies. We didn't want to be seen upsetting the apple cart. Yes sir, no sir, that type of thing.

donegal__road

All eyes on the American dollar.. if it collapses, we will know what problems really are.

KyussBishop

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

All I ever hear is people complaining about it, certainly not accepting it.
The same people aren't offering any solutions themselves though and are bemoaning everyone else not doing anything, but not themselves.

There's not a lack of solutions, all the possible 'solutions' are removed from acceptable discourse. You can't discuss any of them (no matter how well you've learned about them), without attracting immediate rebuke - combine this, with the fact that the solutions have a learning curve, and most people just don't want to learn about them (they want to avoid the fog of controversy/arguments it generates - making muddying debate on economics, a very useful way to prevent anyone learning and of disempowering people).


Even though people know the management/causes of the crisis go right up to an EU level, they look at solutions purely at a local/Irish level, when actual solutions need to come from the EU (combined, the EU's debt to GDP ratio leaves huge room for EU-wide spending without tax increases).

Our government can't do a single useful thing to resolve the crisis, unless they are working harder within Europe and trying to co-operate more directly with other affected nations - there's no political appetite at all for this anywhere in Europe though, so I don't think this is a realistic solution, which makes us have to question whether we still want to be in the monetary union come the next crisis.

There is no solution coming from Europe, Germany pretty much ensures it; we're going to get through the economic crisis, but it's going to probably be a decade and a half still before we're anywhere near where we were beforehand (with the debt still lasting generations), whereas actual solutions could have Europe there within the decade (and actually recovering, not letting the full impact of the crisis grind-out through austerity).


It's incredibly stupid to have a monetary union, without also combining that with an EU institution capable of using EU-debt, to fund spending (i.e. pretty much centralizing government within Europe) - it ensures austerity every time there is a crisis.
It should be an all-or-nothing decision; either 1: A monetary union + some kind of EU institution capable of using EU-debt to spend, or 2: Neither.

We don't want to still be in this broken system by the time the next crisis comes around, but it looks like we will. We need to fix this (nothing has been fixed thus far...), or we need to get out before we are hammered by the next crisis again (which I'd hope we didn't need to do, but I just don't see any possibility for reform in Europe).

Eight Ball

As long as people sit on their hands they deserve all that's coming and all that's gone.

pundy

because it's a dirty cold wet rock in the north atlantic ocean and we're basically seagulls.

5live

Deleted User wrote: »

Not if we bankrupt the country so much that we topple the government, then we all form small independent communes, and just go back to bartering eggs and the like.

I got lots of eggs:P

I'm gonna be RIICCCCHHHHH:D

donegal.

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Protesting won't change anything.Voting will.

The strongest weapon the citizens have and they still don't use it.

didn't we try that at the last election ? i didn't notice much change.