Budget 2013: Free GP visits for under 5's

pwurple

vitani wrote: »

But I suppose I can see how it would be annoying if you'd planned a baby based on knowing you'd be receiving a certain amount every week.

Exactly, those of us who are pregnant now can't exactly undo it now.

I think I see what they are trying to do. By choosing this 230 figure it is supposed to maybe line things up into some kind of universal benefit. It's the same as the old age pension now. The social welfare system is a tangle of complications. But i really wish that it didn't affect currently pregnant women.

iguana

bigalee wrote: »

sounds to me like the government will still make a tidy profit on each and every little baby born

It's not each and every baby as nowhere near all mothers get maternity leave.

pwurple

iguana wrote: »

It's not each and every baby as nowhere near all mothers get maternity leave.

No, but the ones who do have been contributing a high rate of PRSI for it... As have their employers. Given that the average age of a pregnant woman in ireland is 32, that's 10+ years of previous PRSI payments. And despite the benefit payment dropping, I don't see my PRSI dropping along with it.


The sad truth is that I had budgetted to try to squeeze a few more weeks off work with my baby by stretching that payment a tiny bit. That's gone now... We can no longer afford it. Not sure how that benefits society.

ThisRegard

Can someone explain to me how the government is making a profit on "each and every little baby born", are they selling them or something ?

Big Bag of Chips

bigalee wrote: »

sounds to me like the government will still make a tidy profit on each and every little baby born

They won't make a "tidy profit" on each and every baby born. They will make a saving on a portion of babies that are born. More babies will receive free GP care, than mothers who receive maternity benefit.

If the free GP care does in fact role out to everyone, then this can only be a positive step. It depends on how long it takes though, and who has to suffer cuts on the way to achieving it.

Although it never matters who is in government. They will always have to make unpopular decisions and the opposition will always be there to argue them. I always think it's funny to hear FF giving out about cuts etc when their government was the one who oversaw the collapse of the country!

iguana

pwurple wrote: »

No, but the ones who do have been contributing a high rate of PRSI for it... As have their employers. Given that the average age of a pregnant woman in ireland is 32, that's 10+ years of previous PRSI payments. And despite the benefit payment dropping, I don't see my PRSI dropping along with it.


The sad truth is that I had budgetted to try to squeeze a few more weeks off work with my baby by stretching that payment a tiny bit. That's gone now... We can no longer afford it. Not sure how that benefits society.

I didn't say it was a good thing to cut maternity leave entitlements just that no where near all mothers get maternity leave so it's wrong to claim that those cuts effect all families. They don't.

Moonbeam

All working mothers do though,it is ridiculous.

iguana

Moonbeam wrote: »

All working mothers to though,it is ridiculous.

Not all working mothers either is it? I know a few self employed mothers who have no entitlement to maternity leave. Also mothers who weren't long in the work force when they got pregnant.

Moonbeam

Yes self employed people qualify too once they earn more then 5k year.

pwurple

Anyone who pays PRSI at the higher rate for enough time gets it. Self-employed or not.

I'm just left wondering what the fook the PRSI is even for at this stage? My mat benefit is cut and taxed as an income. I've never claimed anything else. I might live to get a pension if I'm lucky, which is also cut as we go along, so I have a private one just in case... oh, except that's being robbed from as well. My family is a net contributor, they make a big fat profit off us alright.

GP visits my arse. I'd want to be up there every week to make it worth it.

Moonbeam

no if you pay self employed prsi think it was 253 euro last year you qualify too.

Prsi,USC who knows why we pay them?
We pay a huge amount of income tax and feel that we get little in return.

Sleepy

Anyone know how this will be implemented? Will we need to apply for a medical card for our under 6's or will it just be handled in-surgery by the GP?

How Strange

Most/all children should already be registered with the hse because of the vaccination scheme.

bigalee

not sure how itl be implemented.. but surprise surprise they have announced itl be next summer at the earliest before it is in place.. so almost another yr to wait, but the cuts come in immediately, as do the rises in excise duty etc.....

Moonbeam

There was a minister on the radio yesterday saying it will be gradually implemented with some areas before others,so I now have a theory it might never actually happen in some areas.

Lisha

My second (and last) child will be 4 early next year so we prob won't see any benifit from it.

Lisha

I believe in free health care for all in principle . But the more I've been thinking about it the more I feel that my 3yr old should not get the free gp card. I'd prefer to see a sick child (of any age) getting the free go card first.
Look after the sick first and then expand the scheme as possible.

Orion

Lisha wrote: »

I believe in free health care for all in principle . But the more I've been thinking about it the more I feel that my 3yr old should not get the free gp card. I'd prefer to see a sick child (of any age) getting the free go card first.
Look after the sick first and then expand the scheme as possible.

Isn't the point of a GP visit that the child is sick enough to need one? How many parents don't bring their children to a GP because they don't have the money for it?

It was also stated in the budget that this is the first step towards free primary health care for all.

Lisha

Orion wrote: »

Isn't the point of a GP visit that the child is sick enough to need one? How many parents don't bring their children to a GP because they don't have the money for it?

It was also stated in the budget that this is the first step towards free primary health care for all.

By sick children I meant kids with a pre existing condition. Their parents can be under huge financial strain.
Tbh I've often delayed taking my kids to doctor cos of finances. Sometimes it's ok to wait the kids can better after rest and calpol . Other times they need doc, it can be hard to call.

While I think all kids deserve free gp card my heart strings were pulled by the extreme cases in the media lately of very long term sick kids. They should get medical cards as a matter if priority.

In an ideal situation all children would have free medical care, but we are in a less than ideal situation.

Sleepy

Effectively this is being paid for by the removal of the medical card from wealthy pensioners. As investment in early childhood healthcare improves life-long health (thereby reducing future demand on the health system) it's a far better use of tax-payers money.

cyning

The problem with only giving them to kids with a long term illness is what about kids who have smaller things that keep going wrong? My little girl has had high calcium levels which necessitated a huge amount of doc visits until we figured out what was wrong, a heart murmur that wasn't picked up until she was 10 months old and anaemia. The high calcium caused constipation which is a problem even now and has caused two dr visits lately. I got a GP visit card in March and literally cried when I got it I was so relieved. And I have health insurance but when you need to come up with €45 every few weeks that doesn't really matter. I would hate to think of any parent not being able to bring their child to the doctor because they couldn't afford it. And I do generally consider C fairly healthy

vitani

cyning wrote: »

The problem with only giving them to kids with a long term illness is what about kids who have smaller things that keep going wrong? My little girl has had high calcium levels which necessitated a huge amount of doc visits until we figured out what was wrong, a heart murmur that wasn't picked up until she was 10 months old and anaemia. The high calcium caused constipation which is a problem even now and has caused two dr visits lately. I got a GP visit card in March and literally cried when I got it I was so relieved. And I have health insurance but when you need to come up with €45 every few weeks that doesn't really matter. I would hate to think of any parent not being able to bring their child to the doctor because they couldn't afford it. And I do generally consider C fairly healthy

That's very true. I had tonsillitis a couple of times a year when I was young. When you factor in a GP visit, antibiotics and someone possibly having to take time off work to look after a sick child on a regular basis, the costs can really add up.

pwurple

Lisha wrote: »

While I think all kids deserve free gp card my heart strings were pulled by the extreme cases in the media lately of very long term sick kids. They should get medical cards as a matter if priority.

I'm not sure what cases you mean, but the long term sick children I know DO have medical cards.

I like how the canadian health service works. Point of entry services are free, and insurance covers treatment needed beyond that. Early detection and preventative care make massive savings for health care services in general, and also makes a big difference to life expectancy and quality of life. It's much cheaper and easier on the patient (in general) to treat cases of disease that are detected in the early stages.

I'd like to see everyone getting free yearly checkups to this end. If it starts with the under 5's and progresses from there, then at least it's a start.

In the long term, it should save the economy a lot.

Lisha

pwurple wrote: »

I'm not sure what cases you mean, but the long term sick children I know DO have medical cards.

I like how the canadian health service works. Point of entry services are free, and insurance covers treatment needed beyond that. Early detection and preventative care make massive savings for health care services in general, and also makes a big difference to life expectancy and quality of life. It's much cheaper and easier on the patient (in general) to treat cases of disease that are detected in the early stages.

I'd like to see everyone getting free yearly checkups to this end. If it starts with the under 5's and progresses from there, then at least it's a start.

In the long term, it should save the economy a lot.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/we-couldnt-cope-if-ill-son-lost-medical-card-29674359.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/call-for-medical-cards-for-very-sick-children-1.1568605

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/1019/ireland/chronically-ill-girl-has-medical-card-taken-from-her-246855.html

Rose35

Lisha wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/we-couldnt-cope-if-ill-son-lost-medical-card-29674359.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/call-for-medical-cards-for-very-sick-children-1.1568605

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/1019/ireland/chronically-ill-girl-has-medical-card-taken-from-her-246855.html

Agreed these children do deserve medical cards of course but there is an obvious problem in the system that shouldn't have happened and in most if not all cases will get back and retain their cards, but this should not take away from the fact that the under 5's deserve free GP care, it's the best start in their lives to hopefully a healthier future.

pwurple

Lisha wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/we-couldnt-cope-if-ill-son-lost-medical-card-29674359.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/call-for-medical-cards-for-very-sick-children-1.1568605

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/1019/ireland/chronically-ill-girl-has-medical-card-taken-from-her-246855.html

First one the child already has a medical card. Parents are 'worried' it will be taken away, but there is no indication that it would be.

Second one has no specific cases at all, speaks generally about paperwork delays in getting them earlier (which is valid, but new scheme should not impact it).

Third one the child's card is changing from full medical card to GP card, but no details on what condition she has, or why the family isn't using the drug payment scheme for the medicine? The drug payment scheme is a max of 144 euro per month for medicine, but the article says they will spend 303 euro per month on medicine. (70 per week)


I think the aim with this scheme is that more children will be included, not that it will be taken away from those who need it.

I certainly share the doubts about how well it will work, especially given it's phased approach, and the fact that GP's apparently are not on board either. Nice in theory, but will they feck it up in implementation? Probably....

Lisha

pwurple wrote: »

First one the child already has a medical card. Parents are 'worried' it will be taken away, but there is no indication that it would be.

Second one has no specific cases at all, speaks generally about paperwork delays in getting them earlier (which is valid, but new scheme should not impact it).

Third one the child's card is changing from full medical card to GP card, but no details on what condition she has, or why the family isn't using the drug payment scheme for the medicine? The drug payment scheme is a max of 144 euro per month for medicine, but the article says they will spend 303 euro per month on medicine. (70 per week)


I think the aim with this scheme is that more children will be included, not that it will be taken away from those who need it.

I certainly share the doubts about how well it will work, especially given it's phased approach, and the fact that GP's apparently are not on board either. Nice in theory, but will they feck it up in implementation? Probably....

In the 144 drug card not all medications are covered under it.
In the 3rd case the meds needed fir the child must be paid for as they are not covered by drug card scheme.

Personally I know 2 different families each with a child with ongoing serious medical issues. Neither family would have excessive income (one approx 40k pa, other less than 50k pa)

They are actually broke from paying out for child's medical expenses. One family did come close to losing house.
They really are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Docs tell them they have to pay to get the help child Needs. When they pay their other kids suffer as they then cannot pay for normal expenses for them.

They gave appealed medical / gp cards a few times but it's no good .
It's very upsetting to see what they are going through.

Rose35

Lisha wrote: »

In the 144 drug card not all medications are covered under it.
In the 3rd case the meds needed fir the child must be paid for as they are not covered by drug card scheme.

Personally I know 2 different families each with a child with ongoing serious medical issues. Neither family would have excessive income (one approx 40k pa, other less than 50k pa)

They are actually broke from paying out for child's medical expenses. One family did come close to losing house.
They really are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Docs tell them they have to pay to get the help child Needs. When they pay their other kids suffer as they then cannot pay for normal expenses for them.

They gave appealed medical / gp cards a few times but it's no good .
It's very upsetting to see what they are going through.

So they have discretional cards, their income is way above the average industrial wage, i know families who earn less than this and can't get medical cards, so hopefully now will really benefit with the new announcement for kids under 5.

cyning

pwurple wrote: »

Third one the child's card is changing from full medical card to GP card, but no details on what condition she has, or why the family isn't using the drug payment scheme for the medicine? The drug payment scheme is a max of 144 euro per month for medicine, but the article says they will spend 303 euro per month on medicine. (70 per week)

One of the medicines I take for a thyroid problem is not covered by the drug payment scheme. It costs €77 a month. Which means that in a month I can pay €221. Thank god it rarely happens but if I had to pay that every month we would be under serious pressure.

pwurple

Lisha wrote: »

Personally I know 2 different families each with a child with ongoing serious medical issues. Neither family would have excessive income (one approx 40k pa, other less than 50k pa).

I know families where the family income is probably close to double those, but the child's disability is so severe that specialised 24hour care is required, so they have qualified for a medical card.

It's cases like these which to me, show a strong need for universal health care in some shape... Rather than stacks of individually assessed cases, where it seems to depend on who assesses you, or worse.. who you know. And perversely, if you start to get better, you can lose the card which pays for your treatment. The current system reeks of corruption, inefficiency and inequity.

There is surely huge overhead in doing these on a case by case basis. Would it be cheaper for everyone to get free care at some level, and skip the layers of assessment altogether I wonder. Put the money into the drugs and the treatments for the tough cases, instead of into the administration.