Barrel life and unburnt powder

The Aussie

I might be putting way too much thought into this but one thing I've noticed for a while now, when cleaning the Rifle before putting away is the amount of Powder being caught in the Moderator then through gravity finds its way back down into the Barrel, I presume it's there between shots so the projectile is passing the crud in the Barrel, is that contributing to a reduction in Barrel life?

The older Moderator I had on the hmr was horrendous for it, the newer one catches it far better but still finds its way down.

Any thoughts...

bravestar

The Aussie wrote: »

I might be putting way too much thought into this but one thing I've noticed for a while now, when cleaning the Rifle before putting away is the amount of Powder being caught in the Moderator then through gravity finds its way back down into the Barrel, I presume it's there between shots so the projectile is passing the crud in the Barrel, is that contributing to a reduction in Barrel life?

The older Moderator I had on the hmr was horrendous for it, the newer one catches it far better but still finds its way down.

Any thoughts...

I assume from the gravity comment you are storing your guns with the mod on. Take the mod off when your finished shooting and leave it off until you are going to shoot again.

There is indeed nasty stuff coming back into your barrel and it can destroy it.

The Aussie

No, while out in the field, all guns are cleaned before putting away with thread protector on, so not stored with any moderator on....

Like after getting 2 rabbits this morning for a curry latter on in the week, I get back home for a quick clean down and there is unburnt powder in the barrel that is being caught in the Moderator, then finding its way back into the barrel, the question is will that affect the Barrel Life?

bravestar wrote: »

There is indeed nasty stuff coming back into your barrel and it can destroy it.

Yes, that's what im wondering, I might dispense with the Mod totally.

Cass

When you consider the fact that barrel life is in the thousands to tens of thousands of rounds a small bit of carbon from the mod is not going to radically decrease barrel life.

Barrel wear is more prolific in the chamber at the throat. Through continuous firing it can "wear" and elongate. In my FTR days if a barrel seemed to drop in accuracy i could have the chamber cut, and re-threaded giving me extended life, but this was with a high load round and even then i'm looking at a minimum of 2,500 rounds.

With a hunting rifle where shots are far less frequent this reduced firing gives years of extra use before serious barrel wear is an issue. So my hunting .308 would happily give me 5,000 rounds at a minimum. Rimfire (.17hmr) rounds in the ens of thousands, and standard rimfire such a .22lr hundreds of thousands. Mod or not.

As for the mods. I've owned most brands, but recently have switched to mods that come fully apart for easy cleaning. The A-Tec and the Sak are taken apart and blown out with an air line after every firing, and the gun stored with mod off. So when i put it back on there is no "loose" residue in the mod. Plus most mods have baffles that "face" backwards allowing for a lip that catches most loose carbon and avoid having it fall back down the barrel.


Still it would not be detrimental to the barrel in terms of shelf life.

The Aussie

Cass wrote: »

As for the mods. I've owned most brands, but recently have switched to mods that come fully apart for easy cleaning. The A-Tec and the Sak are taken apart and blown out with an air line after every firing, and the gun stored with mod off. So when i put it back on there is no "loose" residue in the mod. Plus most mods have baffles that "face" backwards allowing for a lip that catches most loose carbon and avoid having it fall back down the barrel.


Still it would not be detrimental to the barrel in terms of shelf life.

It's not Carbon but unburnt powder that has a texture of a fine grade sand
This is the inside of the latest Mod, tried 4 so far and this is the best for sound reduction by a mile..




But does not catch much on the way back down

bravestar

The Aussie wrote: »

No, while out in the field, all guns are cleaned before putting away with thread protector on, so not stored with any moderator on....

Like after getting 2 rabbits this morning for a curry latter on in the week, I get back home for a quick clean down and there is unburnt powder in the barrel that is being caught in the Moderator, then finding its way back into the barrel, the question is will that affect the Barrel Life?



Yes, that's what im wondering, I might dispense with the Mod totally.

Ah right, sorry I completely misunderstood you. Disregard everything I said. I blame the nights shifts...

The Aussie

bravestar wrote: »

Ah right, sorry I completely misunderstood you. Disregard everything I said. I blame the nights shifts...

Nah, blame my poor grasp on the English language :pac:

My explanations at times even leave me confused.

Cass

The Aussie wrote: »

It's not Carbon but unburnt powder that has a texture of a fine grade sand

I use the term Carbon as it usually constitutes the majority of fouling on a .17hmr. Unburnt powder is only evident if you put an ignition source to it. As it is mixed with the carbon residue from the burnt propellant it's impossible to distinguish between them. IOW you cannot point at one bit and call it powder and another and say carbon. They mix. Hence the reason you see people with really dirty mods having the mod catch fire.

This is the inside of the latest Mod, tried 4 so far and this is the best for sound reduction by a mile..

What model is it? Looks like a newer version of the Sak? Is it on your .17hmr?

But does not catch much on the way back down

Same with my Sak, but the Ase, T8 and A-Tec will. To an extent.

The Aussie

Cass wrote: »

I use the term Carbon as it usually constitutes the majority of fouling on a .17hmr. Unburnt powder is only evident if you put an ignition source to it. As it is mixed with the carbon residue from the burnt propellant it's impossible to distinguish between them. IOW you cannot point at one bit and call it powder and another and say carbon.

Ah I see... Moderators are not a strong point of mine to be honest, they are banned/Restricted in Oz so to us mere mortals they they were things of fancy.

Cass wrote: »

What model is it? Looks like a newer version of the Sak? Is it on your .17hmr?

Yeh mate, it's for the .17hmr. It's a New Zealand made Hushpower Brave-Heart, weighs 175g but in perceived noise reduction it's the best so far.

Cass wrote: »

Hence the reason you see people with really dirty mods having the mod catch fire.

that would be great craic seeing their face...

Cass

The Aussie wrote: »

Ah I see... Moderators are not a strong point of mine to be honest, they are banned/Restricted in Oz so to us mere mortals they they were things of fancy.

I wouldn't be an expert on them either, but the majority is carbon. As i said above if you leave a mod long enough, and it gets dirty enough it can "flame out". This means there is enough unburnt propellant to cause a fire. I've only ever seen it on video and never in real life as most people clean their mods enough to prevent it.

Yeh mate, it's for the .17hmr. It's a New Zealand made Hushpower Brave-Heart, weighs 175g but in perceived noise reduction it's the best so far.

I've seen them. Jim Griffin does them. Never used one. Have you compared it to the SAK for audible difference?

that would be great craic seeing their face...

There was a good video of it on youtube, but i cannot find it now. The guy was using a semi auto and when he stopped firing the mod was on fire. It lasted about 20 seconds then went out.


To get back on the theme of the thread. Fouling (regardless of what it is made up of) is not good for the gun, but will not cause a detrimental excess wear on the barrel life. Regular cleaning of the gun, and if the mod allows for it, more than regular cleaning will eliminate any concerns over this issue.

I'm very rigid in my cleaning regime for my target rifles, yet with my hunting ones i clean less often due to less use, less firings, and basically less need. I clean about every box of bullets which can be a couple of weeks. I get to know whether the guns prefer to fire dirty or clean or a mix of the two. I also take into account time between cleaning. So if i have the gun out but am not firing a lot of shots or am going to put the gun away for a while i'll scrub it out and then put it away regardless of the amount of shots it's fired.

The Aussie

Cass wrote: »

I've seen them. Jim Griffin does them. Never used one. Have you compared it to the SAK for audible difference?

Well without using a Decibel Meter (that's why I described it as perceived noise reduction, because it's only what I'm picking up on, nice little disclaimer hey )

I would rate the Sak above the Parker Hale, the Sak was a borrowed one but the Parker Hale was a new one I purchased myself, the PH I could do better with a old AA Mag Light tube and half an hour in my Garage, did not like it at all at all.

Then I tried another borrowed one called a ASE Ultra (?) Good mod that you can strip good reduction at a good price.

Then I heard about a friend of a friend with the Hushpower so being the king of tact that I am I asked to "borrow" it for a weekend, I wanted to try a LEI before investing but could not find one, from what I've read the LEI is supposed to have fantastic reduction but I was not willing to make a £150+ gamble so the Hushpower won out of the 4 I tried, so yes it's a fair bit quieter than a Sak.