Struggling to get payment from client

pushpop

Hi there

I've been doing some general website and web development work for a client for a couple of years now. Lately, I've been having a problem getting payment off him for work I did in July and August. For the past two months I've been asking and asking to meet with him or send me payment via post, with no success, and was wondering if anyone here has had the same problem before?

I've tried to arrange meetings with him since August but he has kept putting it off until "next week" for weeks. He was abroad for most of August apparently, but he still could've gotten someone else to post a cheque.

Last week I gave up and I asked him to post out payment but still got no acknowledgement. I sent him mails and texts him again asking to arrange a meeting after that, and finally he replied, saying he was on holiday AGAIN and will be back next week, but it's just more of the same as far as I'm concerned.

At this stage I just want him to write me a cheque and cut my losses. The most annoying aspect of it is how if he needs to get you, he'll hound you until he does. I'd love to know how other people on this forum who've had this problem, dealt with it in the end.

corkoian

Im not a web developer i just happened to stumble across this so forgive my innocence but would you still have access to the website? Like could you give him a ultimatum to pay within a week in full or the website will be taken down?

jetsonx

You know I know loads of people who slowly but surely went out of business because of clients like this. It was painful to watch.

There comes a stage where texts, emails and letters become totally ineffectual. He is laughing at you each time you sent him a text.

What you need to do know is go to his office in person and firmly demand payment from him. Then he knows you are serious. Simple as that.
Don't be shy about this. Business is business and jokers like this put people like yourself out of business everyday.

If you're not prepared to do that; you might not be suited to working for yourself - because unfortunately there are a lot more of his ilk out there.

KonFusion

Talk to your solicitor.

oscarBravo

KonFusion wrote: »

Talk to your solicitor.

I was going to say this. If you want to be nice, tell your client that if you haven't received payment by Wednesday, you'll be handing the issue off to your solicitor.

musicfan1ie

If he doesnt pay, you may be able to petition the court for a liquidation order as a creditor. It represents proof as to inability of payment, so he may be insolvent. I reckon if you speak to your solicitor and then, threaten that you may need to take this step, he'll pay

http://www.cro.ie/en/business-termination-court.aspx

pushpop

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your responses. I just sent him a text asking him to leave payment at the reception of the building his office is in and I'll collect it tomorrow. Luckily, this isn't my full time job or else I would have been breathing down his neck, but I'll see where this takes me.

srsly78

UK has a great website for chasing people: www.moneyclaim.gov.uk For example it costs about £100 to file a £8000 again a company.

Ireland has nothing like this, so you have to make a claim via paper through the courts.

howamidifferent

Can you not supply his site with a "critical security patch" that will take the site offline until payment is received?

uck51js9zml2yt

If you've access to his site, send him a suspension notice and then cut it off.
Either than or remove the work you did from it. He's not paid you for it so its still yours.

KonFusion

Talk to your solicitor before taking the site down, putting a notice on the site etc.

In fact, I'd advise you talk to your solicitor before you take any action whatsoever.

uck51js9zml2yt

Depends on whether h had a contract and terms and conditions.

If its not paid for its not theres.

henryporter

First thing I would do is call to his premises unannounced - that normally shocks/shames them enough into paying up. At this stage as well I would be adding additional 'administration' fees and interest to the original invoice so they will see that the longer this goes on the more it will end up costing them - if you were depending on the money to put food on the table you would have to have an overdraft or loan to cover people not paying on time, so it's fair enough to add the costs of having to support late payments.
If you have to resort to the legal route make sure you have a good record of when you invoiced and attempted to seek payment before going to your solicitor as you need to demonstrate that the other party was not honouring their end of the contract between you (not necessarily a written one but that would help). Also advise both your solicitor and the customer that any legal fees associated with recovering the payment will also be sought (no point going through all this and ending up giving most of it to your solicitor).
Depending on the fees involved you might save yourself the bother of a solicitor by going to the small claims court: http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrentweblookuptopnav/small%20claims%20procedure
Oh and if you do get paid, don;t do any more work for them - good for reducing the stress involved.
Best of luck getting sorted.

Cork24

Take down the Site and put up a note on the front page.

Web Site is down due to lack of payment to Web Developer..

Shame the C**nt

ChRoMe

henryporter wrote: »

First thing I would do is call to his premises unannounced - that normally shocks/shames them enough into paying up. At this stage as well I would be adding additional 'administration' fees and interest to the original invoice so they will see that the longer this goes on the more it will end up costing them - if you were depending on the money to put food on the table you would have to have an overdraft or loan to cover people not paying on time, so it's fair enough to add the costs of having to support late payments.
If you have to resort to the legal route make sure you have a good record of when you invoiced and attempted to seek payment before going to your solicitor as you need to demonstrate that the other party was not honouring their end of the contract between you (not necessarily a written one but that would help). Also advise both your solicitor and the customer that any legal fees associated with recovering the payment will also be sought (no point going through all this and ending up giving most of it to your solicitor).
Depending on the fees involved you might save yourself the bother of a solicitor by going to the small claims court: http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrentweblookuptopnav/small%20claims%20procedure
Oh and if you do get paid, don;t do any more work for them - good for reducing the stress involved.
Best of luck getting sorted.

I've stood outside an office with a sign that read "XXXXX does not pay their bills"

I've also parked a van across someone's driveway at 7am so they couldnt leave for work/do the school run. Just left a note on the windscreen with my number saying I was off having a coffee and to call if they needed it moved.

Both instances they paid promptly.

TonyStark

ChRoMe wrote: »

I've stood outside an office with a sign that read "XXXXX does not pay their bills"

I've also parked a van across someone's driveway at 7am so they couldnt leave for work/do the school run. Just left a note on the windscreen with my number saying I was off having a coffee and to call if they needed it moved.

Both instances they paid promptly.

That's actually legendary...do business with them afterwards?

ChRoMe

TonyStark wrote: »

That's actually legendary...do business with them afterwards?

I did in my b0llocks.

pushpop

Hi everyone


Thanks again for your suggestions, clearly this is a widespread problem. Some very creative solutions out there for sure. I think what I'm going to do is wait until this Wednesday and if there's been no resolution, I'm going to start turning things off. I sent this guy a text last Monday asking for him to leave out a cheque but he said was on holiday until last Friday and there was nobody in the office to sign it, but had the cheek to ask for an AdWords report.

I have the keys to his website, his DNS records, his social media pages and his AdWords , so if I haven't been sorted I'll kill his AdWords campaign. If another passes without resolution I'll hit his social media pages, and then rename index.php so the home page throws up a 404.

I'm actually furious at this stage, as this guy is well known in the profession he is in and is solvent and earning a couple of million a year

stevenmu

pushpop wrote: »

I have the keys to his website, his DNS records, his social media pages and his AdWords , so if I haven't been sorted I'll kill his AdWords campaign. If another passes without resolution I'll hit his social media pages, and then rename index.php so the home page throws up a 404.

I'd suggest thinking very carefully about doing that. I'm sure it would give you an enormous sense of satisfaction, but it could be considered criminal damage and/or illegally accessing a computer system, and your customer could potentially sue you for damages, lost custom etc.

grahamor

Do you have a really old version of the website you could put up instead ?!

Or, you could turn off the lights !!

* {
    color:#000 !important;
    background:#000 !important;
    border:none !important;
}

img {display:none;}

touts

Unfortunately there are many bastards like this out there in many industries. It's pretty clear he has no intention on paying you and it has nothing to do with being solvent. You need to play equally hard with him. Call into his office and face to face tell him if he doesn't pay you will permanently lock him out of his website and redirect the links on it to his main rivals. Tell him also that you will spread the word to every other developer that he doesn't pay for the work so he will never find someone to fix the site again. Don't send him a text or e-mail or voice mail or anything that he could use as evidence. Just face to face threaten to ruin his business if he does not pay for the work. That's the only language these guys understand.

ChRoMe

Don't take any action right now, but change the passwords /create backdoor accounts in preparation.

Good luck!

[-0-]

If he has a few million he could hound you with lawyers too, if you take the wrong action.

Seriously, consult your solicitor. In the meantime, change the passwords to all accounts until payment is received. The sites are still up and functional at that point.

Best of luck.

pushpop

[-0-] wrote: »

If he has a few million he could hound you with lawyers too, if you take the wrong action.

Seriously, consult your solicitor. In the meantime, change the passwords to all accounts until payment is received. The sites are still up and functional at that point.

Best of luck.

I agree, it's a very difficult call. For now, I've changed the user settings on the web server so only I can admin it. I have a feeling it'll be a case of who blinks first with this.

jetsonx

pushpop wrote: »

I agree, it's a very difficult call. For now, I've changed the user settings on the web server so only I can admin it. I have a feeling it'll be a case of who blinks first with this.

Your action is still not decisive enough to bring this case to resolution. He (or his unfortunate new website admin) might not need to change settings or content on his website for a couple of months. And this case is just going linger on. I've sent you a PM.

pushpop

jetsonx wrote: »

Your action is still not decisive enough to bring this case to resolution. He (or his unfortunate new website admin) might not need to change settings or content on his website for a couple of months. And this case is just going linger on. I've sent you a PM.

Just replied

eire_sai

A few new bugs would quickly get his attention. Make sure you have a master backup and change all passwords except yours.

Expect a call saying for example, "The search isnt working". You say, "Oh really, I didnt know but anyway you owe me money".

Your payment suddenly becomes his priority.

fergalr

stevenmu wrote: »

I'd suggest thinking very carefully about doing that. I'm sure it would give you an enormous sense of satisfaction, but it could be considered criminal damage and/or illegally accessing a computer system, and your customer could potentially sue you for damages, lost custom etc.

Listen to what Stevenmu said.


Its easy for people on the Internet, who have been in similar frustrating situations, to urge you to take aggressive action.


But they won't be there with you if your highly resourced client decides to sue you, because of some consequential damage that you didn't think was as big a deal as you getting paid.


Consider whether any course of action has an unlikely but potentially painful downside.

Bear in mind that the legal system doesn't have a great track record of understanding technology.

People continuing to give aggressive or 'decisive' advice should bear this in mind, too.

pushpop wrote: »

I'm actually furious at this stage, as this guy is well known in the profession he is in and is solvent and earning a couple of million a year

Don't make any decisions when you are furious.

bonzo_k

If you can wait until he requires more work to be done that would be best. You can get what is owed to you then. Websites need scheduled maintaince to keep the site and server ticking along.

Aggressive action will not help and word gets around.

I have been in this situation many times and I understand your frustration.

Good luck

ChRoMe

fergalr wrote: »

People continuing to give aggressive or 'decisive' advice should bear this in mind, too.

Which is precisely why I gave examples of my passive aggressive actions, it's perfectly find to stand very close to the line, just not to cross it

jetsonx

fergalr wrote: »

Listen to what Stevenmu said.


Its easy for people on the Internet, who have been in similar frustrating situations, to urge you to take aggressive action.


But they won't be there with you if your highly resourced client decides to sue you, because of some consequential damage that you didn't think was as big a deal as you getting paid.


Consider whether any course of action has an unlikely but potentially painful downside.

Bear in mind that the legal system doesn't have a great track record of understanding technology.

People continuing to give aggressive or 'decisive' advice should bear this in mind, too.

.

So what do you suggest.

Let this case linger on until it becomes a distance memory for the client?

I've seen so many "nice" Irish business owners let debts slowly linger until they come to a stage where they can't pay their own debts and after a while it creeps up on them and they eventually have to close their business. Not nice to watch.