Teeth Implants

restartagain

I am thinking about have dental implants. Has anyone been to the Polish dentist in Ennis who claims to charge a fee of €1000 per tooth all in? The material in the teeth he uses is Titanium

Banbh

I have some useful information for but cannot see how to send you a private message. They don't allow discussion of particular dentists on this forum - it is run by Irish dentists, I think.
If there is way to PM me on this message, please do as I have done extensive research on implants.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

The work doesn't look very nice on their website and some of the photos are photo-shopped.

You not going to get really good dental work at those prices, all implants are titanium, but its not the screws that matter, its the carpenter putting them in.

If your willing to take a chance give it a try and report back. Personally I wouldn't recommend it to my friends or family, as I know the economics of providing dental treatment and at those prices corners have to be cut, even shipping in tin can crowns from Hong Kong, and putting in Russian clone implant it doesn't make sense.

Nobody is allowed to put names on the forum, mostly because we get a bunch of shills, dentists pretending to be happy patients, and dentist unhappy with on-line complaints (all Irish and non irish), and crazy people venting. This has worked well for years, to PM click the name of the person you want to PM and select "send private message".

Banbh

I haven't had implants yet myself but am researching it as I need extensive work. I can't speak for the quality of Irish versus overseas treatment but three people I have spoken to, who have had treatment abroad are all happy with the result. One person I know went to Turkey but that's outside the EU and so no tax relief and anyway I'd be too scared. Some overseas clinics operate follow-up treatment in Ireland and are registered with the dental professional bodies in Ireland. This is important for me in the event of getting a toothache or other problem afterwards.

Hungarian prices appear to be about half Irish prices and the Budapest clinics, as well as the Hungarian clinics in Ireland, and Irish practices, offer zirconium (dearer) as well as titanium.

It is difficult to compare prices on the websites - most Irish practices don't advertise prices - but obviously a visit for a check-up and a chat to your local dentist is the best starting place.

There is also the question of what is meant by an 'implant'. As I understand it, there are three parts; the 'rawl plug' that goes into your jaw; a screw that goes into this; and the final tooth or group of 'teeth' fitted on top. Also, if the bone has shrunk (happens I discovered when teeth have been missing for some time) it is necessary to build up the bone (think polyfiller). In the upper teeth this is referred to as 'sinus lift' which doesn't make things easy to understand.

I suppose all dentists - and this might be easier with a local one - will accept payment on a phased basis or at each of several visits during the treatment (implants take six to eight months) whereas going abroad would probably require payment on one or two lump sums.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Quality is by far the most important thing, and the hardest thing for the " consumer" to appreciate. Everyone tells you their quality is great. And people who have made certain decisions underestimate the actual cost, overestimate their satisfaction and settle for suboptimal treatment for the sake of cost.

It's a minefield at this sort of price point and bad decisions will haunt you. Caution.

Banbh

Is there any way of assessing the quality of a dentist for specialist work? I assume all are registered but how can you judge one from the other? Years in business or experience might be one thing or price but these are very arbitrary. Some have testimonials but these are worthless in my opinion as you don't get the negative ones. It's a pity there's no place where we can name names but of course that would be legally impossible.

Would it be possible to compile here a list of questions that the prospective patient could ask a dentist?

A2LUE42

Banbh wrote: »

I haven't had implants yet myself but am researching it as I need extensive work. I can't speak for the quality of Irish versus overseas treatment but three people I have spoken to, who have had treatment abroad are all happy with the result. One person I know went to Turkey but that's outside the EU and so no tax relief and anyway I'd be too scared. Some overseas clinics operate follow-up treatment in Ireland and are registered with the dental professional bodies in Ireland. This is important for me in the event of getting a toothache or other problem afterwards.

Hungarian prices appear to be about half Irish prices and the Budapest clinics, as well as the Hungarian clinics in Ireland, and Irish practices, offer zirconium (dearer) as well as titanium.

It is difficult to compare prices on the websites - most Irish practices don't advertise prices - but obviously a visit for a check-up and a chat to your local dentist is the best starting place.

There is also the question of what is meant by an 'implant'. As I understand it, there are three parts; the 'rawl plug' that goes into your jaw; a screw that goes into this; and the final tooth or group of 'teeth' fitted on top. Also, if the bone has shrunk (happens I discovered when teeth have been missing for some time) it is necessary to build up the bone (think polyfiller). In the upper teeth this is referred to as 'sinus lift' which doesn't make things easy to understand.

I suppose all dentists - and this might be easier with a local one - will accept payment on a phased basis or at each of several visits during the treatment (implants take six to eight months) whereas going abroad would probably require payment on one or two lump sums.

What sort of timelines are involved to cause this.

I am due to have an implant, but the tooth that is being replaced was only removed this week.

Oral Surgeon

A2LUE42 wrote: »

What sort of timelines are involved to cause this.

I am due to have an implant, but the tooth that is being replaced was only removed this week.

How long is a piece of string.... Is the answer unfortunately....
For example, the tooth may have suffered years of recurrent infections or chronic gum disease so on extraction the bone is gone already....
Or
The bone may be fantastic but an aggressive and destructive extraction technique may cause unnecessary loss of bone in the healing period....

The most ideal situation IMO is to place the implant at the time of extraction if the bone is intact and favorable...
The next option IMO is to very carefully remove the tooth and thus preserve as much bone as possible and allow healing for 8-12 weeks and then place an implant.
Some would socket preserve the area by placing bone grafts material after the extraction but I think that this treatment is overdone and not usually necessary....

All depends really.... If the tooth is gone, your best bet is an implant placement in 3 to 6 months. If the site is ok now, then it'll be ok then. If the site is bad now then it'll be bad then....

A2LUE42

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

How long is a piece of string.... Is the answer unfortunately....
For example, the tooth may have suffered years of recurrent infections or chronic gum disease so on extraction the bone is gone already....
Or
The bone may be fantastic but an aggressive and destructive extraction technique may cause unnecessary loss of bone in the healing period....

The most ideal situation IMO is to place the implant at the time of extraction if the bone is intact and favorable...
The next option IMO is to very carefully remove the tooth and thus preserve as much bone as possible and allow healing for 8-12 weeks and then place an implant.
Some would socket preserve the area by placing bone grafts material after the extraction but I think that this treatment is overdone and not usually necessary....

All depends really.... If the tooth is gone, your best bet is an implant placement in 3 to 6 months. If the site is ok now, then it'll be ok then. If the site is bad now then it'll be bad then....

Tooth was badly cracked from sports injury. Dentist wanted me back in 2-3 months to start implant. He was concerned about infection or sinus problem, as I have had issues before. I was just curious. Thanks.

paddyh117

Personally I think that cost (all things being equal) should be the least of your worries when considering getting an implant done.

I can only speak from personal experience, but i shopped around (Dublin and Northern Ireland) and got the work done in Dublin in an extremely professional practice, whom i would gladly recommend to anyone.

I would never consider going abroad for dental work - personally I think it's a false economy.

Am happy to PM details of my dentist to anyone who cares to know

Banbh

Cost should be the least of my worries but, alas, it is not as I require a lot of treatment - a new car's worth at Irish prices.

I still have an open mind about going abroad. There are the additional costs of travel and the difficulty of follow-up treatment but the economics of the thing do add up, especially if you take a week in Budapest or Spain as your annual holiday.

Please PM the details of your dentist.
Much obliged, B.

Banbh

As I have received several PMs that I hope I have answered, I want to update my previous posts.
In the end I went to an Irish clinic in the Dublin area. They claim to be the most popular implant specialists in the country and probably are.
I have to say that the diagnosis, and treatment to date was truly first class - all very smooth, with every detail of the treatment options gone through and then the costs gone through in detail.
It was not cheap. I would estimate nearly twice as dear as Hungary but after four assessments by Hungarian dentists and then this one, I decided that the Hungarian dentists may have been making light of problems.
The implant procedure - I'm at the half-way stage - was completely painless. I have to admit after trying to explain my wishes to several very nice and very helpful Hungarian dentists, it was a relief to get down to basics in English.
So, thanks to a hefty credit union loan, I will be chomping into raw carrots by the summer.
Hope this is helpful.

Mingetoad

Minor point but should be told. If it's the place I assume it is (only one place I know that advertises as being the most popular implant specialists in the country) they aren't specialists (i.e. oral surgeons, periodontists or prosthodontists).
May not seem important to everyone, but as a general dentist who provides implants I am very careful that my patients know I am not a specialist, I am a general dentist who provides implants (after over 2 years part time training in them). Same as "the most popular implant specialists in the country"

mrsbouquet

Have to say I totally agree with Banbh.
I have had dental implants done in a Clinic in Dublin, they were recommended by my dentist down the country where I live.
They were very professional.
It was expensive but really worth it and at least i know if I have a problem they are only an hours drive away.
I would not hesitate te recommend them to anyone.
If anyone is looking for advise re same just pm me and i will give them the details.
I would not advise anyone to go out of the country to have this kind of work done as the treatment i had was not rushed and took several months to complete but was so worth it in the end.

liliq

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

How long is a piece of string.... Is the answer unfortunately....
For example, the tooth may have suffered years of recurrent infections or chronic gum disease so on extraction the bone is gone already....
Or
The bone may be fantastic but an aggressive and destructive extraction technique may cause unnecessary loss of bone in the healing period....

The most ideal situation IMO is to place the implant at the time of extraction if the bone is intact and favorable...
The next option IMO is to very carefully remove the tooth and thus preserve as much bone as possible and allow healing for 8-12 weeks and then place an implant.
Some would socket preserve the area by placing bone grafts material after the extraction but I think that this treatment is overdone and not usually necessary....

All depends really.... If the tooth is gone, your best bet is an implant placement in 3 to 6 months. If the site is ok now, then it'll be ok then. If the site is bad now then it'll be bad then....

Sorry for jumping in....
Is it usual different the implant to be placed at the time of extraction? Or is the 8-12 week healing time the most typical?

Oral Surgeon

liliq wrote: »

Sorry for jumping in....
Is it usual different the implant to be placed at the time of extraction? Or is the 8-12 week healing time the most typical?

Both work in the correct situation.... Like in my previous post, what is your situation?

liliq

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Both work in the correct situation.... Like in my previous post, what is your situation?

I'm getting implants due to the roots if my teeth shrinking after overly aggressive orthodontic treatment.
Teeth themselves, and gums, are fine, though slightly prone to gingivitis. Never had any oral infection.
There's plenty of bone there, and I'm only 29.

I've had 6 teeth pulled already, which I found psychologically very hard going- but that's for another thread- I wonder would it be worth asking about getting the whole lot- extractions & implants placed- done in one go for some of the teeth. If it had been an option for my four front teeth I would have jumped at it. Although, 2 were extremely loose so there may not have been time to get the implants made anyway...

Should also clarify- I've to get all of my teeth replaced. There are 3 that were gone already so there may be bone loss issues there, I might guess?

Thanks for the reply

Banbh

it would save a lot of stress as the hole in the jaw is open.
This is from my reading on the subject and I'm not a dentist.

Oral Surgeon

liliq wrote: »

I'm getting implants due to the roots if my teeth shrinking after overly aggressive orthodontic treatment.
Teeth themselves, and gums, are fine, though slightly prone to gingivitis. Never had any oral infection.
There's plenty of bone there, and I'm only 29.

I've had 6 teeth pulled already, which I found psychologically very hard going- but that's for another thread- I wonder would it be worth asking about getting the whole lot- extractions & implants placed- done in one go for some of the teeth. If it had been an option for my four front teeth I would have jumped at it. Although, 2 were extremely loose so there may not have been time to get the implants made anyway...

Should also clarify- I've to get all of my teeth replaced. There are 3 that were gone already so there may be bone loss issues there, I might guess?

Thanks for the reply

Banbh wrote: »

it would save a lot of stress as the hole in the jaw is open.
This is from my reading on the subject and I'm not a dentist.

It sounds like immediate implant placement would have been an option in your case, but I couldnt say that for sure without seeing you. Immediate implant placement and an immediate crown on an immediate implant are different things....

Try not to decide your own treatment plan, the option may not have been proposed as you are unsuitable or because your implant surgeon is not comfortable doing it...

You would not go into a heart surgeon and propose a double bypass or a triple bypass... you would take the advice from them based on their knowledge/ experience and skill....

liliq

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

It sounds like immediate implant placement would have been an option in your case, but I couldnt say that for sure without seeing you. Immediate implant placement and an immediate crown on an immediate implant are different things....

Try not to decide your own treatment plan, the option may not have been proposed as you are unsuitable or because your implant surgeon is not comfortable doing it...

You would not go into a heart surgeon and propose a double bypass or a triple bypass... you would take the advice from them based on their knowledge/ experience and skill....

Ah yes, I understand completely.

It's more out of interest and curiosity that I ask, as in really only at the beginning of this whole process and while I'd usually read up a lot more on anything I undertake, I just haven't had the chance to with this.

I'm 100% confidant, comfortable and happy with the periodontist I'm attending so I suppose that could be part of the reason why I've remained so ignorant so far!

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

dentalboyo

I am new here but interested in the comments.

Overseas dentistry does have benefits but only if you can have follow up work done in your own country.
Look for a dental clinic that has an office in Ireland AND an office in the country you are thinking of visiting.
Also make sure it is the SAME dentist that examines you in Ireland as the dentist who is placing your dental implants.

Dental implants are very overpriced in Ireland but one reason is that dental implants suppliers charge the dentists in Ireland substantially more for each dental implant set, implant and abutment, then they do in Eastern Europe. This is a stone cold fact. The difference in prices charged can be as much as 400%.

davo10

dentalboyo wrote: »

Dental implants are very overpriced in Ireland but one reason is that dental implants suppliers charge the dentists in Ireland substantially more for each dental implant set, implant and abutment, then they do in Eastern Europe. This is a stone cold fact. The difference in prices charged can be as much as 400%.

I am very interested in this statement. If I could source the reputable brand implant we use, at a quarter of the price elsewhere, I would most certainly reduce the price of an implant accordingly as it would make my prices much lower than the competition. What brand of implant are you referring to in your "stone cold fact"?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I too am interested in what implants you are refering to. mostly the implants I see from eastern Europe are not "top 5" brands and have non standard connections and the laboratory is of a standard I would not be happy to provide for patients.

On the costs side, from my experience patients pay the same amount in eastern Europe as in Ireland, it just in eastern Europe the tourism clinics tend to add on unnecessary and destructive treatments such as crowns on lower incisors to boost the treatment plan cost with percieved extra value for the patient as they are getting more.

dentalboyo

The moderators can see my name.
They can see my IP address.

For example in EE Alpha Bio Dental Implants and MIS Dental Implants and abutments are only €45.00 to the dentist.
There are more examples available.

Dental tourism is very dangerous and the moderators here are absolutely correct in their comments. What needs to happen is that dentists in Ireland need to access prices made available to dentists in percieved developing countries. At the moment companies sell products to the Irish dentists at a price the 'market can bear'. Personally I am against dental tourism but the moderators here need to provide cost effective alternatives in a non-ridiculing way. Going to a dentist you found on a flashy website with low prices is ludicrous to the extreme, would you look for heart surgery the same way?



People coming to this board want information on affordable dentistry in Ireland because like people in the UK they feel trapped by high costs and heavy sales pressure from Hungary and Poland based dentists.

Dentists in Ireland pay up to €45k for a dental chair while in EE an excellent chair can cost €3k.

I am sure this post will be deleted and I will be banned.

Oral Surgeon

dentalboyo wrote: »

The moderators can see my name.
They can see my IP address.

For example in EE Alpha Bio Dental Implants and MIS Dental Implants and abutments are only €45.00 to the dentist.
There are more examples available.

Dental tourism is very dangerous and the moderators here are absolutely correct in their comments. What needs to happen is that dentists in Ireland need to access prices made available to dentists in percieved developing countries. At the moment companies sell products to the Irish dentists at a price the 'market can bear'. Personally I am against dental tourism but the moderators here need to provide cost effective alternatives in a non-ridiculing way. Going to a dentist you found on a flashy website with low prices is ludicrous to the extreme, would you look for heart surgery the same way?



People coming to this board want information on affordable dentistry in Ireland because like people in the UK they feel trapped by high costs and heavy sales pressure from Hungary and Poland based dentists.

Dentists in Ireland pay up to €45k for a dental chair while in EE an excellent chair can cost €3k.

I am sure this post will be deleted and I will be banned.

Yes Irish dentists have higher expenses to provide a service to their patients and run a business in Ireland, we all know that, what is your point??

The cost of an implant is only one of these expenses. Irish clinics have higher rent, rates, electricity, gas, wages, cars, houses etc etc than EE countries too, buying a cheaper implant does not change the fact that overall we have higher expenses....

You are not advocating dental tourism so....???

davo10

Nobel, Straumann, ankylos etc implant companies each have single distribution centres in Germany/Switzerland etc. They charge unit item prices in Euro no matter who by or where the implant items are ordered from. Currency values in the purchasing market eg $ and vat in each country may alter the price slightly but the core unit price is the same every where in the world. You will not buy one if these implants in Romania any cheaper than here, if you are claiming you can I am happy to ask one of their reps to post here and refute that claim.

Like everything, you can buy cheaper alternatives but as fitsgeme said it can be difficult to get components and to get Labs to do work with obscure systems.

As regards the chairs, as someone who has bought a cheap chair in the past and had to throw it in a skip a couple of years later after costing me a fortune in clinic down time, I know that when it comes to equipment you get what you pay for. I bought Kavo chairs at €24k each and have never had a problem.

helimachoptor

Dentalboyo, where are you posting from?

tooth_doc

Meeting with the prospective dentist and asking about his her expertise is the initial ice breaker so to speak, if the dentist is half way competent he/she will discuss your options clearly

happychap1

Hi I need to get 2 implants - one front and one back. If anyone can recommend who to avoid or who is good then a PM would be a great help.
Thanks

tooth_doc

happychap1 wrote: »

Hi I need to get 2 implants - one front and one back. If anyone can recommend who to avoid or who is good then a PM would be a great help.
Thanks

i am repeating this message actually

Meeting with the prospective dentist and asking about his her expertise is the initial ice breaker so to speak, if the dentist is half way competent he/she will discuss your options clearly

patob

Hi,
Need a molar implant and researching the options for about 6 months - need to make decision soon.

Seriously considering an option for an Alpha Bio implant from Irish outfit (GDC/DCI). Alpha Bio appear to be one of the less costly brands, from an Israeli manufacturer (with 60% of Israeli market so must be decent product). In addition, I understand that they were bought out by premium manufacturer Nobel Biocare a few years ago. Any advice would be very welcome by PM etc.