The Modern Man 2.0

Guyanachronism

Anytime I see this thread 1) Arcade Fire song Modern Man comes into my head and 2) I wrack my brains for men I admire.

It's difficult because, role models are meant to be perfect and as you get older you realise no one is perfect, but there are a lot of people mostly from history that I admire. The only rock stars that I really admire is Kurt Cobain because of his attitude to gender and orientation which was quite radical for the time. David Bowie again challenging gender norms and expectations, funny how we had all the new romantics, punk and grunge whch challenged gender roles and norms but we seem to have forgotten it somehow.

In history, Frederick II, organised, a soldier when necassary but also artistic and cultured. Same with some of the Greek figures such as Pericles the great, soldier and philospher with some great rules for living:

Our love of what is beautiful does not lead us to extravagance; our love of the things of the mind does not make us soft … Here an individual is interested not only in his own affairs but in the affairs of the state as well … this is a peculiarity of ours: we do not say that a man who takes no interest in politics is a man who minds his own business; we say that he has no business here at all …

Pericles Funeral Oration

I like Jimmy Carter, I know "history's greatest monster" a la simpsons. But he was an American politician who valued compromise and co-operation over being seen to be a strong unilateral leader like Ronald Regan. The latter is idolised but in democratic politics compromise and co-operation is how you get things done, being seen to be strong and forceful will only cause gridlock and it's mostly spin anyway. He began a rapporachment with the world that America sorely needed but was then reversed by Regan.

Garret FitzGerald and Henry Kissinger boths figures inspiring for their success and opinions. But never implemented what they believed in, in fact Kissinger is abhorrent when you read about his time as Secretary of State.

py2006

Role models don't have to be perfect. Your father could be your role model. Just somebody who leads a good life that you can draw inspiration from.

mud_guard

Guyanachronism wrote: »

Anytime I see this thread 1) Arcade Fire song Modern Man comes into my head and 2) I wrack my brains for men I admire.

It's difficult because, role models are meant to be perfect and as you get older you realise no one is perfect, but there are a lot of people mostly from history that I admire. The only rock stars that I really admire is Kurt Cobain because of his attitude to gender and orientation which was quite radical for the time. David Bowie again challenging gender norms and expectations, funny how we had all the new romantics, punk and grunge whch challenged gender roles and norms but we seem to have forgotten it somehow.

In history, Frederick II, organised, a soldier when necassary but also artistic and cultured. Same with some of the Greek figures such as Pericles the great, soldier and philospher with some great rules for living:

Pericles Funeral Oration

I like Jimmy Carter, I know "history's greatest monster" a la simpsons. But he was an American politician who valued compromise and co-operation over being seen to be a strong unilateral leader like Ronald Regan. The latter is idolised but in democratic politics compromise and co-operation is how you get things done, being seen to be strong and forceful will only cause gridlock and it's mostly spin anyway. He began a rapporachment with the world that America sorely needed but was then reversed by Regan.

Garret FitzGerald and Henry Kissinger boths figures inspiring for their success and opinions. But never implemented what they believed in, in fact Kissinger is abhorrent when you read about his time as Secretary of State.

what is it that is so particulary admirable about a man who changes attitudes to gender

I think both bowie and cobain were - are iconic and hugely inspirational musicans - artists but its the music im impressed by rather than some alledged " gender " statement

Guyanachronism

mud_guard wrote: »

what is it that is so particulary admirable about a man who changes attitudes to gender

I think both bowie and cobain were - are iconic and hugely inspirational musicans - artists but its the music im impressed by rather than some alledged " gender " statement

Because at the time, place and scene, it was a difficult thing to do. To break gender norms and expectations. To appear androgynous or even a hint of being gay. The music was great as well.

I don't get how it's alleged, Bowie and his adrogyny as Ziggy Stardust was shocking for the time. It arguably changed attitudes to sexuality for the better.

Bowie is still causing controversy. The Catholic League condemned his video to the Nexy Day.

Cobain was anti racism, sexism, homophobia. Nirvana played at gay rights protest before the gay rights movement was mainstream. He made statements like: "I am not gay, although I wish I were, just to piss off homophobes"

It's the bold statements they were willing to make and how they challenged the consensus of the day that makes them admirable for me.