MV Magner pays €2.85m for a Montjeu x Finsceal Beo Colt

robfullam

You guys see this?

Great to see.

Johner

I was the under bidder.

robfullam

Unlucky Mate! Maybe next time...

tryfix

A massive price that will be hard to recuperate unless he turns out to be very special. Lot of interesting aspects to the sale. A timely boost to the Montjeu lines commercial image at a time when Coolmore are trying to lay the groundwork for Camelot and St Nicholas Abbey starting their stud careers and it will do their other Derby winner Pour Moi no harm either.

But wtf was Richard Hannon junior doing underbidding for such a massively priced middle distance prospect? A bit out of their usual comfort zone pricewise and distance wise.

Overthelast

In the late 90's, I recall looking down the racecard for a maiden at Ballybrit wondering where to wager my £1ew, only to spy this Coolmore 2yo, purchased for $2m in the US. It finished down the field and never won a race afaik. Then again, Leading Light finished down the field in his maiden too, but thankfully has gone onto better things.

chinguetti

Many years ago they paid $7 million for a yearling colt that won a race in Tipperary when i was there one summer evening. Must check my old racecards for the name as when I saw this last night, it came into my head.

I remarked to the guy besides me in the stands that twas an awful come down for that price and a bad gamble. He pointed out that all they need is one out of every ten to be a stud success and over 15 years, they recoup the money with profit. They might make individual loses but they sell on horses/stallions and get some money back.

Its a huge price alright but I think the lovely grass and air down in Waterford has alot to do with the price.

Colonel Sanders

Was that horse Tasmanian Tiger?

Think Van Nisteltoy cost $6m+ and then there's the fiasco that was The Green Monkey. They had a few lucky escapes around the 2004/05 years when Darley went a bit crazy, think Jalil had the highest price tag of $9m+. Quite often on those horses Coolmore were under bidder

UrbanSea

I was going to say Van Nistelrooy Colonel but I think he was around 3 US but could be wrong

UrbanSea

Or you could be right 6.4 USD is springing to mind for someone could be him

Johner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyggMC85Zsg

Gringo180

Black Sam Bellamy was another horse that cost a fortune.

UrbanSea

Easy to see why, in fairness he did win two group 1s and is doing well with jumpers

Itziger

Who was the 16$ lad and when was that? Absolutely crazy stuff.

UrbanSea

Itziger wrote: »

Who was the 16$ lad and when was that? Absolutely crazy stuff.

Green Monkey a son of Forestry, ran a breeze up in a ridiculous time. Bidding between Coolmore and Darley, ran three times in maidens I think it was finished third once.

Johner

And now stands at stud for $5,000.

UrbanSea

Has sired winners too

tryfix

Itziger wrote: »

Who was the 16$ lad and when was that? Absolutely crazy stuff.

The Green Monkey who couldn't break his maiden after three races and was retired with the consignors buying back a share in him and standing him themselves, with Coolmore having the option to stand him at Ashford if they like.

He's doing fine at stud, 16 winners from 20 runners, one a stakes winner so he's not a complete dud..

Itziger

Ah, so that was the Green Monkey, I remember the fanfare at the time alright. Fcuking 'ell, 5,000 a throw. He'll need to keep going for a few years to recoup the money!

SRFC

Pocket change to the coolmore boys not even a drop in the ocean to them spending a few million on this colt.

slaneylad

John Magnier broke European record today. 3.6 million guineas

He was involved in a bidding war with David Redvers and then Sheikh Fahad for a Galileo full-brother to Secret Gesture and by the time the hammer came down the price stood at 3.6 million guineas.

MV Magnier told www.tattersalls.com: "He has the pedigree, he ticks all the right boxes, he is by Galileo out of a Danehill mare - let's hope he has an engine. Galileo, of course, speaks for himself, but you 'd never think you'd have to go that far.

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/465/8964082/magnier-shatters-european-record

hucklebuck

SRFC wrote: »

Pocket change to the coolmore boys not even a drop in the ocean to them spending a few million on this colt.

Do you know someone who works in the accounts department in Coolmore that gave you solid info that they can afford to spend a few million on a colt? :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

SRFC

hucklebuck wrote: »

Do you know someone who works in the accounts department in Coolmore that gave you solid info that they can afford to spend a few million on a colt? :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Out of my net Hucklebuck :pac: you seem to fuming following me around the forum,You need a chat or anything mate? Henry put you onto a few losers?

hucklebuck

Itziger wrote: »

Who was the 16$ lad and when was that? Absolutely crazy stuff.

Snaafi Dancer was $10.2 around 83/84, he never ran as he was a sham and was infertile.

To put it in perspective applying 5% compound interest that works out at $44,000,000 in todays money.

hucklebuck

SRFC wrote: »

Out of my net Hucklebuck :pac: you seem to fuming following me around the forum,You need a chat or anything mate? Henry put you onto a few losers?

Lol, your net. You sure it was me who was getting tips off Henry :pac::pac:

tryfix

slaneylad wrote: »

John Magnier broke European record today. 3.6 million guineas

He was involved in a bidding war with David Redvers and then Sheikh Fahad for a Galileo full-brother to Secret Gesture and by the time the hammer came down the price stood at 3.6 million guineas.

MV Magnier told www.tattersalls.com: "He has the pedigree, he ticks all the right boxes, he is by Galileo out of a Danehill mare - let's hope he has an engine. Galileo, of course, speaks for himself, but you 'd never think you'd have to go that far.

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/465/8964082/magnier-shatters-european-record

It says Guineas which would be £1.05 sterling = £3.78 million = €4.478 million. Methinks these Coolmore dudes splashing the cash either know that there's some crazy inflationary currency instability coming or else they've lost the plot.


That is a crazy price for a horse who's a brother to a decent but not spectacular performer. The dam is a half sister to Arc winner Sagamix and Arc third Sagacity, but the pedigree of the colt himself is fast enough.

NewApproach

tryfix wrote: »

It says Guineas which would be £1.05 sterling = £3.78 million = €4.478 million. Methinks these Coolmore dudes splashing the cash either know that there's some crazy inflationary currency instability coming or else they've lost the plot.


That is a crazy price for a horse who's a brother to a decent but not spectacular performer. The dam is a half sister to Arc winner Sagamix and Arc third Sagacity, but the pedigree of the colt himself is fast enough.

That's all well and good but you seem to be forgetting the purchaser also owns the sire of the yearling in question...

tryfix

NewApproach wrote: »

That's all well and good but you seem to be forgetting the purchaser also owns the sire of the yearling in question...

Good point, they've a vested interest in hyping the sales prospects of the Galileo sire line, seeing as they have Magician and Ruler Of The World to go to stud with.

They could have let the underbidder have the colt and they'd still have had the hype.

UrbanSea

Sister to Was just went for 5 million guineas

sting60

UrbanSea wrote: »

Sister to Was just went for 5 million guineas

Have been watching the sales and all I can say is that there is no recession in the horse world infact they live in a world of non tax payers.Friends went over to buy lot 174 a Kodiac colt were going to pay 80k max went for 170k.She was bought by Al Shaqeb whoever he is.It seems he has now bought about 10 horses so far and they will go to A.Fabre in France.Coolmore could not live with guy .

Slattsy

UrbanSea wrote: »

Sister to Was just went for 5 million guineas

Mandore Internation are after spending serious ££££££ so far.

Were Coolmore chasing the sister too? Edit - Yes.

tryfix

sting60 wrote: »

Have been watching the sales and all I can say is that there is no recession in the horse world infact they live in a world of non tax payers.Friends went over to buy lot 174 a Kodiac colt were going to pay 80k max went for 170k.She was bought by Al Shaqeb whoever he is.It seems he has now bought about 10 horses so far and they will go to A.Fabre in France.Coolmore could not live with guy .

Lot 253; b f Galileo - Alluring Park; 5 million guineas.
It's a world record for a yearling filly sold at auction as Nicolas de Watrigant of Mandore International, acting on behalf of Sheikh Joaan al Thani's Al Shaqab Racing, sees off John Magnier for Lodge Park Stud's homebred sister to Oaks heroine Was.


She is the third yearling out of the Listed-placed Alluring Park to sell for over a million following Was, who topped the 2010 sale at 1.2 million gns, and Al Jassasiyah, who was last year's dearest filly when also selling to Mandore for 1.5 million gns. She is set to join Andre Fabre in France.
"How can you quantify her beauty?" said de Watrigant. "She's magnificent. You know, you see her walking in the ring among the others and she's different. We didn't expect to have to go so far but she has everything going for her.


"We bought the sister [Al Jassasiyah] here last year and we think she's special and so we didn't want to miss this one."

http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/blog/bloodstock/tatts-book-1-live/tatts-october-book-1-day-two-as-it-happens/1543582/


That Al Jassasiyah hasn't made an appearance yet? I suppose with the New Approach connection they're hoping to establish a top band of broodmares.


Strange for Magnier to be willing to go so high for an unproven filly when they've already got her oaks winning full sister at home to breed from.



Nice little story about New Approach on the link below.

When the colt walked into the Goffs sale ring in October 2006, she had produced seven winners, including champion Dazzling Park, Group 1-winning Japanese sprinter Shinko Forest, and the stakes-placed pair Tycoon King and Alluring Park.

"She would always get them with plenty of size and scope, and New Approach has a tremendous action," Burns says. "Tattersalls had had a couple of good ones out of the mare from me, but I'd done well at Goffs the year before with an Alhaarth colt from the same family, and so when Matt Mitchell asked me to give them something good, I decided to send New Approach.

"But I was amazed he didn't top the sale. I suppose being by a Coolmore stallion meant that there wasn't any action from the Arabs on him, and maybe the mare's age put some people off. As everyone knows, when Jim Bolger bought him, I retained half, which I sold to Sheikh Mohammed last year."

New Approach is the final foal out of Park Express, who began going blind five years before foaling the colt. By the time New Approach was born, circumstances required him to wear a light, leather strap with a bell on it so that she could distinguish his whereabouts.

BURNS says: "The mare lived in a field of 31 cattle, and when she started going blind we decided to let nature take its course and leave her with a bullock that she had become attached to. We could do anything with her because she knew our voices.

"My feeling is that New Approach may have become more of a bully because he was reared around just his mother and the bullock.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Bully+for+the+son+of+a+blind+mare+who+ran+riot+in+the+Derby%3b+GRASS...-a0180052896

UrbanSea

That sister to Was is hardly going to Richard Hannon is she

tryfix

UrbanSea wrote: »

That sister to Was is hardly going to Richard Hannon is she

Both this 5 million guineas one and the last 1.5 million guineas one Al Jassasiyah seem to be with or going to A Fabre in France.

That Al Jassasiyah must be a very decent sort given that the same connections are willing to shell out 5 million for her sister.

UrbanSea

Richard Hannon Jnr was there with them when they bought her that's why I thought

Go Native

Money well spent from an investment point of view on the colt. In terms of the filly, well it was silly money and no surprise to see Qatar bought her. I guess they are in it for the fun more than business, so fair enough I guess, but not a chance in hell they'll will ever make a profit on her or her progeny. The colt on the other hand has serious stallion potential if he can win a group one.

Go Native

tryfix wrote: »

A massive price that will be hard to recuperate unless he turns out to be very special. Lot of interesting aspects to the sale. A timely boost to the Montjeu lines commercial image at a time when Coolmore are trying to lay the groundwork for Camelot and St Nicholas Abbey starting their stud careers and it will do their other Derby winner Pour Moi no harm either.

But wtf was Richard Hannon junior doing underbidding for such a massively priced middle distance prospect? A bit out of their usual comfort zone pricewise and distance wise.

Wouldn't need to be special at all. They will campaign him selectively and win a group one that they tend to block entry like the Phoenix stakes or the National Stakes. His pedigree is outstanding and an average racing career by Ballydoyle standards will see him turn into a very commercial stallion indeed.

tryfix

Go Native wrote: »

Wouldn't need to be special at all. They will campaign him selectively and win a group one that they tend to block entry like the Phoenix stakes or the National Stakes. His pedigree is outstanding and an average racing career by Ballydoyle standards will see him turn into a very commercial stallion indeed.

You'd be waiting for hell to freeze over before a Montjeu colt would win either of those races, the racing post trophy or one of the end of season Criteriums in France would be more like it.

Anyhow, it's good advertising for the Montjeu sire line and so it won't be money wasted even if he's a dud.

Go Native

tryfix wrote: »

You'd be waiting for hell to freeze over before a Montjeu colt would win either of those races, the racing post trophy or one of the end of season Criteriums in France would be more like it.

Anyhow, it's good advertising for the Montjeu sire line and so it won't be money wasted even if he's a dud.

The reason there was so much interest in this cold wasn't because of Montjeu, it was because of Finsceal Beo who had loads of speed. The reason it sold for so much is because it's a potential colt who can buck the trend with Montjeu and win at 6 and 7 furlongs.

Don't be so silly to think Coolmore would spend that kind of money to win a Racing Post Trophy when they could win it with 7 or 8 of their own home breds...

anuprising

quick one for you all

have any of you been in the stable block of the sales ,and watch the horses being sold before they go into the sales ring ?

you do know how that works im assuming

tryfix

Go Native wrote: »

The reason there was so much interest in this cold wasn't because of Montjeu, it was because of Finsceal Beo who had loads of speed. The reason it sold for so much is because it's a potential colt who can buck the trend with Montjeu and win at 6 and 7 furlongs.

Don't be so silly to think Coolmore would spend that kind of money to win a Racing Post Trophy when they could win it with 7 or 8 of their own home breds...

What are Montjeus bought for? Answer to win Racing Post Trophies and other top staying 2yo races and to contest the top 12f races at 3 and older.


Motivator, Authorised, Camelot, St Nicholas Abbey, Fortune and Fame. Recital, Jan Vermeer etc.

That's what they do... I await the arrival of this first Montjeu speed ball with bated breath.

Go Native

tryfix wrote: »

What are Montjeus bought for? Answer to win Racing Post Trophies and other top staying 2yo races and to contest the top 12f races at 3 and older.


Motivator, Authorised, Camelot, St Nicholas Abbey, Fortune and Fame. Recital, Jan Vermeer etc.

That's what they do... I await the arrival of this first Montjeu speed ball with bated breath.

I'm not disputing they excel in those type of races, they quite clearly do, but I think this colt has a chance to break the mould. A Montjeu will come along and break the mould, and when he does he will be a cash machine as a stallion prospect.

tryfix

Go Native wrote: »

I'm not disputing they excel in those type of races, they quite clearly do, but I think this colt has a chance to break the mould. A Montjeu will come along and break the mould, and when he does he will be a cash machine as a stallion prospect.

It's an interesting prospect, Montjeu didn't seem to get the flashest or speediest of mares sent to him. At least none spring to mind.


Sadlers Wells would be nearest comparable stamina influencing stallion to Montjeu and he had a fair few 7f GP1 winning 2yo colts in his career. The likes of El Prado, Fatherland, King Of Kings in the National/Vincent O'Brien stakes. Refuse To Bend and the Dewhurst dead heaters Scenic and Prince Of Dance..

So I suppose a 7f GP 1 winning 2yo colt for Montjeu is possible, although Finsceal Beo isn't necessarily going to be that big of a speed influence, but maybe the colt's quality conformation will overcome that problem.

UrbanSea

A lot of money for an unproven broomdmare isn't she by Mr Greeley he wouldn't blow me away as a brood mare sire. Ill give everyone posting in this thread twenty quid when Montjeu had a Phoenix winner

Go Native

What about a 4 runner Phoenix stakes due to Coolmore block entering??

Go Native

There will always be exceptions to the rule.

Take Dansili for example. He's a stallion most familiar with top class mile / mile and a quarter / mile and a half + horses. e.g Famous Name, Harbinger, Rail Link, The Fugue, Dandino, Giofra.

Not many people would of given him much chance of producing a Phoenix Stakes winner, but he did, with Zoffany in 2010.

I can't imagine Coolmore going to the levels they did for this colt if they thought he'd develop into yet another typical Racing Post type winner. They have them at home in bundles....

UrbanSea

Dansili gets plenty of milers though, milers who will have enough speed to win over 6 at 2. Montjeu is all stamina generally, the most precocious Montjeu I can think of is Wading and she won over seven at 2 she looked to have a good turn of foot but she had an exceptional pedigree

Go Native

Yes, generally you are right, absolutely.

I personally feel however there will come a day where Coolmore will look to develop a speed Montjeu stallion and I think this may be the one.

Don't get me wrong now. I'm not saying this colt is going to be trained as a sprinter, but I highly suspect he will be aimed to win at the top level at 7 furlongs and I wouldn't be surprised if their PR machine aren't tempted to block entry the Phoenix stakes at 6 furlongs and look to take that too.

Go Native

I'll put it to you like this. If Coolmore want to win the Phoenix Stakes with this guy then they will.

UrbanSea

I see what you mean but you can't create something that isn't there. Even if they try to block enter a race like that Bolger or someone will have a horse to take it on, they'd know well a Montjeu is unlikely to win a Phoenix if they have something half decent in there. Camelot is probably the speediest one they will get given he won a Guineas

Go Native

UrbanSea wrote: »

I see what you mean but you can't create something that isn't there. Even if they try to block enter a race like that Bolger or someone will have a horse to take it on, they'd know well a Montjeu is unlikely to win a Phoenix if they have something half decent in there. Camelot is probably the speediest one they will get given he won a Guineas

I'd disagree. Nobody block enters like Coolmore and they can win the Phoenix stakes with whichever horse their PR team prefer, obviously providing there is a certain level of ability there in the first place.

Bolger just isn't able to compete with them unless he has something v v v v v v v exceptional, which is unlikely and 9 times out of 10 he doesn't. There are 92 entries for next year's 2000 gns in Ireland, Bolger is responsible for just 1 of those entries.

UrbanSea

Not sure how you could say Bolger can't compete with them he is phenomenally successful and 95% of the horses owned by his wife. Teo, St Jovite, Dawn Approach, New Approach, Finsceal Beo, Lush Lashes and many more all serious horses. Of those 90+ Coolmore will have two of those in single figure prices for the race come the day