Respecting a belief because it is based on religion?

robindch

WTF?

Banbh wrote: »

[...] I overheard a customer looking for sea-sickness tablets [...]

Not wanting to go off-the-latest-topic, but in my capacity as an occasional sailor, I have to point out that many sailors believe that a lot of sea-sickness is psychosomatic, though it varies amongst individuals.

Also, the reaction of most sailors to sea-sickness at sea is quite unlike the reaction of the same people to similar hassles on land - it's treated, perhaps unconsciously, largely as a self-administered illness a bit like vomiting from a hangover. It usually isn't treated as something caused externally.

Which is not to say that it is -- because I've noticed that people who suffer from sea-sickness frequently get very ratty indeed when this common sailors' belief is mentioned in the company of non-sailors.

gaynorvader

No, but I was born in a stable because there was no room in the inn.

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why is it that those who say they have no intereset in religion are the ones that get all worked up about religion. If you believe that you are just like shep the dog or daisy the cow then fine just chill out and accept that.

Beause religion seeps into our daily lives and often tries to proselytise at us.

Obliq

Atari private maternity hospital.

Yes, will drop this off-topic stuff after this post, or start a new thread maybe, but here's the Dr.'s book I was listening to him speak about very interestingly:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Killing-Us-Softly-Nonsense-Alternative/dp/0007491727

"Now that homeopathic remedies are offered on the NHS, it’s clear that various therapies once considered alternative or complementary, have become mainstream – prescribed to burn fat, shrink prostates, alleviate colds, reduce stress, eliminate pain and prevent cancer. At the same time, uptake of effective vaccines such as MMR has fallen – a disturbing trend which, in the case of the MMR, has lead to a sharp rise in the number of measles cases.

In ‘Killing Us Softly’ Paul Offit reveals, alternative medicine – an unregulated industry under no obligation to prove its claims or admit its risks – can actually be very harmful."

gaynorvader wrote: »

I'm not sold on it though, and would be interested if it was just a placebo or if it actually helped.

You've been sold on it if you're buying it! Go for the actual plants, I reckon. 5 a day smoothies and all that. At least you'll know you're not wasting your money!

realdanbreen

gaynorvader wrote: »

Beause religion seeps into our daily lives and often tries to proselytise at us.

It doesn't bother me but then again I can see how someone who uses the word 'proselytise' could let things like religion get to them.

kylith

Atari private maternity hospital.

Sarky wrote: »

I'm sure there was a piece linked here a month or two ago that suggests taking vitamin supplements, which are essentially an overdose of substances your body usually only needs traces of to function, drastically increases your risk of dying from various illnesses.

If someone else hasn't found the link by the time I'm back from sorting out PhD registration with the secretary, I'll try to find it myself.

I seem to remember reading that.

In my personal experience I have never felt so run down and been as prone to picking up every sniffle going around as I was when I was taking multivitamins.

OH's mum gave me some of those woman-specific vitamins a while back. I took one or two but then nearly choked on one. They're so massive they're like horse pills.

gaynorvader wrote: »

I'm not sold on it though, and would be interested if it was just a placebo or if it actually helped.

99.999999999% sure it was placebo.

There's nothing wrong with placebos though. When I was working in a place that had GPs recommending acupuncture I did have difficulty with it, but I kept reminding myself that sometimes psychological illnesses need psychological cures, and GPs can't prescribe a course of Placebonol for people.

Turtwig

gaynorvader wrote: »

I actually think homoeopathy can be helpful. I'd only use it as a supplement however. I'd rate it along the lines of garlic pills or multivitamins. It can be good for increasing your energy levels when you have a dose.

One thing to be vary careful of in alternative medicine is the ingredients. For example, homeopathic pills very often carry non diluted ingredients that do have effects on the person's body.In fact for lots of alternative medicine there tends to be substances that aren't marketed as the active ingredient being sold that stimulate a person's brain so they think the medicine is doing something for them.

smacl

I love some of these natural potions, with their natural ingredients. Like bachs rescue remedy. Made from flowers. Like opium is. Still, it seemed to keep our two well stunned prior to bed in their early years, so no complaints. Rescue received and paid for. And it's natural, or did I say that already

Sarky

No.

realdanbreen wrote: »

It doesn't bother me but then again I can see how someone who uses the word 'proselytise' could let things like religion get to them.

Oh, well done you.

gaynorvader

No, but I was born in a stable because there was no room in the inn.

Obliq wrote: »

Yes, will drop this off-topic stuff after this post, or start a new thread maybe, but here's the Dr.'s book I was listening to him speak about very interestingly:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Killing-Us-Softly-Nonsense-Alternative/dp/0007491727

"Now that homeopathic remedies are offered on the NHS, it’s clear that various therapies once considered alternative or complementary, have become mainstream – prescribed to burn fat, shrink prostates, alleviate colds, reduce stress, eliminate pain and prevent cancer. At the same time, uptake of effective vaccines such as MMR has fallen – a disturbing trend which, in the case of the MMR, has lead to a sharp rise in the number of measles cases.

In ‘Killing Us Softly’ Paul Offit reveals, alternative medicine – an unregulated industry under no obligation to prove its claims or admit its risks – can actually be very harmful."



You've been sold on it if you're buying it! Go for the actual plants, I reckon. 5 a day smoothies and all that. At least you'll know you're not wasting your money!

kylith wrote: »

I seem to remember reading that.

In my personal experience I have never felt so run down and been as prone to picking up every sniffle going around as I was when I was taking multivitamins.

OH's mum gave me some of those woman-specific vitamins a while back. I took one or two but then nearly choked on one. They're so massive they're like horse pills.

99.999999999% sure it was placebo.

There's nothing wrong with placebos though. When I was working in a place that had GPs recommending acupuncture I did have difficulty with it, but I kept reminding myself that sometimes psychological illnesses need psychological cures, and GPs can't prescribe a course of Placebonol for people.

Jernal wrote: »

One thing to be vary careful of in alternative medicine is the ingredients. For example, homeopathic pills very often carry non diluted ingredients that do have effects on the person's body.In fact for lots of alternative medicine there tends to be substances that aren't marketed as the active ingredient being sold that stimulate a person's brain so they think the medicine is doing something for them.

My aunt actually gave it to me for free, it's not something I make a habit of, Vit C usually sees off any malady I manage to obtain.

realdanbreen wrote: »

It doesn't bother me but then again I can see how someone who uses the word 'proselytise' could let things like religion get to them.

I don't think my use of a word in its correct setting could influence how things like religion would get to me. I'm guessing you don't have kids and don't really mind lying any time you appear in court as a witness or that money you pay in taxes is funding the proliferation of ignorance.
I'm sorry you have such an apathetic stance and wish people like you would be a little bit more proactive so we could change the world for the better (hopefully).

realdanbreen

gaynorvader wrote: »

My aunt actually gave it to me for free, it's not something I make a habit of, Vit C usually sees off any malady I manage to obtain.



I don't think my use of a word in its correct setting could influence how things like religion would get to me. I'm guessing you don't have kids and don't really mind lying any time you appear in court as a witness or that money you pay in taxes is funding the proliferation of ignorance.
I'm sorry you have such an apathetic stance and wish people like you would be a little bit more proactive so we could change the world for the better (hopefully).

For someone that has never met me you seem to have formed a very strong opinion of me, are you always so judgemental?
But hey, while you are all hung up and being proactive and changing the world for the better, I'm just relaxed and enjoying the 3 score & 10 or whatever amount of time we get to live on this earth.

Sarky

No.

Teach us to to be cool and apathetic like you!

gaynorvader

No, but I was born in a stable because there was no room in the inn.

realdanbreen wrote: »

For someone that has never met me you seem to have formed a very strong opinion of me, are you always so judgemental?
But hey, while you are all hung up and being proactive and changing the world for the better, I'm just relaxed and enjoying the 3 score & 10 or whatever amount of time we get to live on this earth.

No, I was just logically deducing based on the fact that you claimed religion never effected you. I didn't judge, in fact I admitted that what I said was just a guess.
As for calling your stance apathetic, well you're only adding to my suspicions there.

Turtwig

Folks cut out the personal discussion. This isn't an Android vs Apple war.

robindch

WTF?

Jernal wrote: »

[...] Android vs Apple war.

Hmm... I don't think we've had one of them.

Sarky

No.

As generally sensible people we all realise that Apple is over-priced tat :pac:

gaynorvader

No, but I was born in a stable because there was no room in the inn.

Sarky wrote: »

As generally sensible people we all realise that Apple is over-priced tat :pac:

Lies! It's over-priced, largely decent stuff.

Cabaal

I don't remember.

robindch wrote: »

Hmm... I don't think we've had one of them.

So a giant robot versus a apple?, ah feck sure the robot is going to win everytime!
:pac:

For the record, iMacs are the best
That is all.

Turtwig

robindch wrote: »

Hmm... I don't think we've had one of them.

Should we? It might be fun.

robindch

WTF?

Cabaal wrote: »

For the record, iMacs are the best.

I take it you're not a software developer

Brian Shanahan

gaynorvader wrote: »

I actually think homoeopathy can be helpful. I'd only use it as a supplement however. I'd rate it along the lines of garlic pills or multivitamins. It can be good for increasing your energy levels when you have a dose.

Buy yourself a Brita filter system. It's the exact same difference as homeopathy.

Edit: Well, except for the fact that the Brita system is a lot cheaper.

Bannasidhe

Jernal wrote: »

Should we? It might be fun.

I have a Blackberry* so I am keeping my mouth shut.






*also known as 'that 'ucking useless piece of 'ucking sh&t' but it was a gift from OH after my last phone ended up in a mixed colours at 40 degrees wash.

Obliq

Atari private maternity hospital.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

*also known as 'that 'ucking useless piece of 'ucking sh&t' but it was a gift from OH after my last phone ended up in a mixed colours at 40 degrees wash.

OH's quite nice camera went in the wash last week after me asking him did he check his pockets......

The case was material, so apparently invisible amongst the jeans. 40 degrees didn't suit it either, nor did clunking around in my span new machine

swampgas

No, but I was born in a stable because there was no room in the inn.

I have an iPod that hardly gets used because the great steaming pile of poo that is iTunes reduces me to a gibbering mass of incandescent rage.

gaynorvader

No, but I was born in a stable because there was no room in the inn.

swampgas wrote: »

I have an iPod that hardly gets used because the great steaming pile of poo that is iTunes reduces me to a gibbering mass of incandescent rage.

http://www.getsharepod.com/ Try it, and embrace the non-rage.

PopePalpatine

Don't pick this one.

Wow, we haven't discussed biscuits yet? :pac:

robindch

WTF?

swampgas wrote: »

I have an iPod that hardly gets used because the great steaming pile of poo that is iTunes reduces me to a gibbering mass of incandescent rage.

I drive the music/audiobook/mp3 side of Steve (my iPhone) using MediaMonkey and am thoroughly happy.

BTW, referring to iTunes as a stinky pile of poo is seriously understating its crappiness.

MrPudding

gaynorvader wrote: »

I don't actually take multivitamins or garlic pills, but I don take those verocca boost or whatever they're called when I feel like I have a dose coming on. As for homoeopathy, I always tended to "under-dilute" it by interpreting a glass of water to mean a shot glass (easier to take that way too imo). I don't think water has a memory, and I can only speak from personal experience that it did help me when recovering from a long-term fungal infection (though that was drawn out by a couple of incompetent GPs not being able to diagnose a fungal infection and not listening to me when I told them I'd already been on antibiotics several times, and it was in all likelihood fungal, but I digress). I'm not sold on it though, and would be interested if it was just a placebo or if it actually helped.

I am not sure using a shot glass is enough make it useful. Ben Goldacre describes it like this. Imagine you have a sphere of water. How big you that sphere need to be in order to contain a single molecule of the active ingredient? The answer is, apparently, that it would reach the sun.

Also, when the FDA were considering whether or not homeopathic remedies would be subject to the same testing regimen as actual medicine the head of some homeopathic governing body told the FDA that it was just water.

MrP

donspeekinglesh

Atari private maternity hospital.

MrPudding wrote: »

I am not sure using a shot glass is enough make it useful. Ben Goldacre describes it like this. Imagine you have a sphere of water. How big you that sphere need to be in order to contain a single molecule of the active ingredient? The answer is, apparently, that it would reach the sun.

And remember homeopaths think the more dilute the stronger the remedy, so for some the sphere of water would have to be bigger then the visible universe.
Goldacre's book Bad Science is well worth a read on the subject.

Mark Hamill

No, but I was born in a stable because there was no room in the inn.

I remember reading recently that, in the uk, they were finally considering regulating the homeopathy industry properly and one of the biggest homeopathic producers said they would be happy to relabel their pills as confectionery in order to avoid the new regulations.

Link to story here.

Obliq

Atari private maternity hospital.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I remember reading recently that, in the uk, they were finally considering regulating the homeopathy industry properly and one of the biggest homeopathic producers said they would be happy to relabel their pills as confectionery in order to avoid the new regulations.

Link to story here.

Oh wow, that's hilarious! And people still believe that there's substance to them. Although I suppose that as that substance is magic (or energy, or essential essence, or memory....etc.) there isn't a regulation to cover it, so calling it confectionery is probably fine with them all. It is a great way of avoiding the 'big-pharma' regulations for medicine - just don't put anything in it and rebrand.