Employee Exploitation

Devil08

Anybody work for Ryanair or know anyone who does? I know a few people who do, most staff are taken on through external agencies, and some of the stories I hear about their working conditions are shocking. I don't think there are many companies exploiting their staff like this.
I'd be keen to hear if you are exploited at work or if you know someone who is. And also how do companies get away with it in this day and age with so many unions etc?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/10063697/Ryanair-accused-of-exploiting-staff.html

Sir Humphrey Appleby

A friend and former colleague of mine works for them, as does her soon to be husband. They both love it and wouldn't change jobs for anything.
A lot of what is said about Ryanair is just lefty propaganda because Ryanair don't allow unions to dictate how their business is run.

Cody Pomeray

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

A friend and former colleague of mine works for them, as does her soon to be husband. They both love it and wouldn't change jobs for anything.
A lot of what is said about Ryanair is just lefty propaganda because Ryanair don't allow unions to dictate how their business is run.

I know a similar couple. They have great roles. I presume your couple are not cabin crew either?

Even in Victorian collieries, there were managers and clerks who loved their jobs. That's an extreme example, to show that in the worst conditions, some people are treated better than others.

The type of people who become Ryanair cabin crew tend not to be those with a lot of career options during a recession. Ryanair outright refuse to pay cabin crew for some of the hours they work. That's not lefty propaganda, and the Telegraph is not a newspaper disposed to left wing virtues.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I know a similar couple. They have great roles. I presume your couple are not cabin crew either?

Even in Victorian collieries, there were managers and clerks who loved their jobs. That's an extreme example, to show that in the worst conditions, some people are treated better than others.

The type of people who become Ryanair cabin crew tend not to be those with a lot of career options during a recession. Ryanair outright refuse to pay cabin crew for some of the hours they work. That's not lefty propaganda, and the Telegraph is not a newspaper disposed to left wing virtues.

She is cabin crew, he is a pilot. They are both based in Birmingham in the UK.
She had plenty of career options and was employed prior to joining Ryanair in 2011.She would and has disputed the manner in which both her job and conditions are often represented in such a negative light.
Incidentally, last year she became the first Irish member of staff to feature in the Ryanair calendar.

TheFarrier

Mate of mine is a Ryanair cabin crew, as are her boyfriend and her housemates.
All love their job and wouldn't change for the world!!!

Doc Ruby

Funny how the lefties get all excited about a successful Irish company that isn't forcing anyone to work for them, but falll oddly silent when it comes to schemes like jobsbridge. No chance of unionising and collecting dues from the unemployed is it?

Mark Twain

My ex worked for them. Not as cabin crew, but in their headquarters in Dublin Airport. Not a bad shower to work for. The whole business is streamlined in terms of number of staff, but they paid a decent wage.

The rumours that O'Leary drinks a glass of sweat each morning, garnered from the toil of Ryanair employees is without foundation.

stevenmu

It very clearly says in the article that she works for Crewlink. Why are Ryanair taking the blame instead of them?

Devil08

Most of Rynair cabin crew are hired through agencies such as crew link. Ryanair obviously write the contracts that crew link give the employees.
My friend was forced to stay overnight in Poland because of snow, didn't get paid for it and got no meal allowance.
She is allocated her holiday days each year and cannot pick her own. She cannot take holidays during the summer as it's too busy.
They are bringing out a new staff uniform which she has to pay 300euro for. She already paid for her original uniform when she joined the company 2 years ago.
You don't get a penny for being on standby. You are supposed to give up your whole day and be able to get into work within 1 hour if they call you.
You get called into a disciplinary meeting if you call in sick. Even if you have a doctors note.
Sometimes they have to work in the airport selling coach and train tickets to people waiting to board the plane. For this they get 3euro per hour.
I could go on and on but everytime I hear a new story it makes me sick and I can't see why people stick in the job. I ask them why and they say it is because they have paid for their uniform, their training etc, all of which cost in excess of 3000euro.
I'm looking forward to the day I open the paper and see Ryanair being taken to court and being successfully sued.
O Leary gets a lot of praise in this country, people wanting him to run the country. I couldn't think of anything worse

Czarcasm

Devil08 wrote: »

Most of Rynair cabin crew are hired through agencies such as crew link.

From the article you linked to -

A Ryanair spokesman said: “We are surprised by Ms Berger’s statement in the House of Commons, since this person was not employed by Ryanair, but by a contractor company, Crewlink Ltd, and appears to have left their employment without notice after just two months. We are also surprised that Ms Berger made no effort to verify these false claims with Ryanair before using her House of Commons privilege to make false accusations.”

Crewlink denied the allegations, and said no payments had been made by Ms Growcoot for training. "Ms Growcoot read, understood, agreed to and signed her contract prior to commencing work," it said.

As any adult will tell you - It's important to do your own research on a company you are interested in working for, and always read the contract before you sign your name to it. That way you can't claim exploitation when you agreed to the terms and conditions of employment.

Mocha Joe

How do massive metal things stay in the air? Satanic witchcraft I reckon

humberklog

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

A lot of what is said about Ryanair is just lefty propaganda because Ryanair don't allow unions to dictate how their business is run.

It's gotta be a first for The Telegraph to be accused of spreading lefty propaganda:D.

stevenmu

Devil08 wrote: »

Ryanair obviously write the contracts that crew link give the employees.

Obvious how? It seems a bit pointless to do that.

Devil08

stevenmu wrote: »

Obvious how? It seems a bit pointless to do that.

Well they are going to be working for Ryanair. They dictate how much they get paid, what hours they work, holidays etc. Crewlink would not have a say in the working conditions, it all comes from Ryanair. Crewlink just provide the training, advertise the vacancies etc..
I know people signed these contracts but contracts often get worded in ways that either make them difficult to understand or make things sound better than they are.

cml387

I heard that Ryanair people are going out at night and beating people over the heads and dragging them off and when they wake up they're on an aeroplane and have to sell lottery tickets to passengers. A friend told me.

Femme_Fatale

I hear loads of "lefties" criticising JobBridge.

If Ryanair treats some of its staff badly, the criticism is due to bad treatment of staff, not because it's a successful Irish company.

Czarcasm

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

And "They don't have to work there" could be said about absolutely anywhere and doesn't in the slightest justify bad treatment of staff.

I've never seen any justification for an ex-employee of a company bypassing grievance procedures and airing their grievances in public, let alone grievances about conditions with a company that never employed them in the first place.

There's really no use in it as the public isn't going to give a damn once they feel a company is giving them value for money.

Detective Mittens

An ex-housemate of mine is a pilot but not with Ryanair. The general consensus amongst pilots is that the ryanair pilots have contributed to the reduction of T&Cs to dangerous levels in every other airline in a race to the bottom. They pay €30000 to join up(this is after they are fully qualified pilots, results in the richest, not the best candidates joining) and don't get paid or the first 6 months I think? Many of them then endure harsh conditions at work, and a lot turn up to work sick and tired to pay off their training loan,(bit dangerous and professional right?) as they don't get paid sick pay.

Basically they are massively exploited but no one should have any sympathy or them. No one wants people like these undermining ryanair pilots moving into your respective professions. I certainly wouldn't.

Czarcasm

Detective Mittens wrote: »

An ex-housemate of mine is a pilot but not with Ryanair. The general consensus amongst pilots is that the ryanair pilots have contributed to the reduction of T&Cs to dangerous levels in every other airline in a race to the bottom. They pay €30000 to join up(this is after they are fully qualified pilots, results in the richest, not the best candidates joining) and don't get paid or the first 6 months I think? Many of them then endure harsh conditions at work, and a lot turn up to work sick and tired to pay off their training loan,(bit dangerous and professional right?) as they don't get paid sick pay.

Those two statements seem to me to contradict each other?

Mr Benevolent

Yeah, it's always 'friend of a friend' stories. There are Irish companies that have far worse employment conditions. As long as the pilots are paid a salary commensurate to their experience and ability and in line with other airlines I couldn't give the tiniest shite about CC pay. No-one has to work for FR.

Mr Benevolent

Detective Mittens wrote: »

An ex-housemate of mine is a pilot but not with Ryanair. The general consensus amongst pilots is that the ryanair pilots have contributed to the reduction of T&Cs to dangerous levels in every other airline in a race to the bottom. They pay €30000 to join up(this is after they are fully qualified pilots)

Your ex-housemate is talking crap. Ryanair pilots pay €27000 to get type rated on the 737-800. That is a perfectly normal thing to pay for as an airline pilot. 'Fully qualified pilot' means feck all in aviation, they MUST be highly trained on the specific aircraft they are flying. Every aircraft flies completely different and must be trained for accordingly. Every time they change airline to fly a different aircraft that they are not trained on they must pay to be trained, it's called a 'Type Rating'.

Dyr

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Funny how the lefties get all excited about a successful Irish company that isn't forcing anyone to work for them, but falll oddly silent when it comes to schemes like jobsbridge. No chance of unionising and collecting dues from the unemployed is it?

Silent on jobsbridge? Have you been living under that bridge for the last year? assorted lefties and trade unions been anything but silent about jobsbridge.

The levels of stupid that gets displayed and thanked in here sometimes is awe inspiring.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Funny how the lefties get all excited about a successful Irish company that isn't forcing anyone to work for them, but falll oddly silent when it comes to schemes like jobsbridge. No chance of unionising and collecting dues from the unemployed is it?

What are you talking about?

Jobsbridge is discussed a lot in the appropriate forum.

Czarcasm

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Your ex-housemate is talking crap. Ryanair pilots pay €27000 to get type rated on the 737-800. That is a perfectly normal thing to pay for as an airline pilot. 'Fully qualified pilot' means feck all in aviation, they MUST be highly trained on the specific aircraft they are flying. Every aircraft flies completely different and must be trained for accordingly. Every time they change airline to fly a different aircraft that they are not trained on they must pay to be trained, it's called a 'Type Rating'.

I figured alright the ex-housemate was blowing smoke up that posters tailpipe.

Detective Mittens

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Your ex-housemate is talking crap. Ryanair pilots pay €27000 to get type rated on the 737-800. That is a perfectly normal thing to pay for as an airline pilot. 'Fully qualified pilot' means feck all in aviation, they MUST be highly trained on the specific aircraft they are flying. Every aircraft flies completely different and must be trained for accordingly. Every time they change airline to fly a different aircraft that they are not trained on they must pay to be trained, it's called a 'Type Rating'.

How are they talking crap when you have just admitted they pay? €27000 is not a number most of us would blasé remark as being "perfectly normal" Managment are exploiting them but they seem to enjoy accepting it as it removes the majority of people competing for airline jobs. Hence my remark no one should have sympathy for them.

Gatling

I remember reading stories about american domestic airline pilots living off welfare food stamps due to low salaries ,

Most so called complaint's seem to come from mollycoddled young people and union official who believe in selling sob stories

Doc Ruby

Bambi wrote: »

The levels of stupid that gets displayed and thanked in here sometimes is awe inspiring.

Indeed, as you've highlighted nicely.

Meanwhile the Labour party are enjoying a congenial circlejerk over the "success" of jobbridge. What was that, they aren't really "left?" Odd that their leader was a member of the Workers' Party of Ireland and later a member of Democratic Left as well as a former trade union organiser.

But they aren't really left wing.

Bobby Brief Leaflet wrote: »

What are you talking about?

Jobsbridge is discussed a lot in the appropriate forum.

What are you talking about? That's the work and jobs forum, not the lefty forum.

Femme_Fatale

Doc Ruby wrote: »

the Labour party are enjoying a congenial circlejerk over the "success" of jobbridge. What was that, they aren't really "left?" Odd that their leader was a member of the Workers' Party of Ireland and later a member of Democratic Left as well as a former trade union organiser.
But they aren't really left wing.
What are you talking about? That's the work and jobs forum, not the lefty forum.

What forum is the lefty forum? Huge amount of criticism of JobBridge here on After Hours. It seems those who are in agreement with it no matter what, are of an economic viewpoint that's more to the right.

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

No-one has to work for FR.

No-one has to work for who?

"Nobody has to work for them" is the lamest avoidance of the issue of poor treatment of staff ever, which its proponents obviously wouldn't apply to themselves if they were being treated badly in their job.

Dyr

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Indeed, as you've highlighted nicely.

Meanwhile the Labour party are enjoying a congenial circlejerk over the "success" of jobbridge. What was that, they aren't really "left?" Odd that their leader was a member of the Workers' Party of Ireland and later a member of Democratic Left as well as a former trade union organiser.

But they aren't really left wing.


What are you talking about? That's the work and jobs forum, not the lefty forum.

oh right...so you said "lefties" when you actually meant "the labour party". So you were moaning that the labour party, being the party that brought in the jobsbridge initiative, aren't criticizing the jobsbridge initiative. That's the initiative which they brought in, just in case you missed that bit

yeah that's a logical position and doesn't sound like someone who's is desperately back peddling after being called on a horse**** argument

oh no wait, that's exactly what it sounds like

Capt'n Midnight

Mocha Joe wrote: »

How do massive metal things stay in the air? Satanic witchcraft I reckon

Magnets

Teyla Emmagan

I have a friend which has worked for them for years. She's very happy there.

Doc Ruby

Bambi wrote: »

oh right...so you said "lefties" when you actually meant "the labour party".

The Labour party are a lefty party, and the tears of your failure are as sweet nectar to me.

Dyr

Doc Ruby wrote: »

The Labour party are a lefty party, and the tears of your failure are as sweet nectar to me.

Aaand a failure to even form a coherent response, its like hitting a blind toddler, I feel bad now.