What bits did you not understand? (Spoilers for all seasons)

clairefontaine

Crackle wrote: »

But he only finds it in the roomba after Walt comes over to help him look for it, plus he said at the time he already checked it. Jesse may have had suspicions about the whole thing and Huell lifting the weed was the final piece in the puzzle for him.



One look at Walt would have been enough for Jesse to know that wasn't the case.

I thought what he found in the roomba was a fake one WW planted there while WW kept the real one.

folan

This is a Season 1&2 question really, but bugged me a bit.

Tuco Salamanca was a local distributor or dealer? did he work in parallel with Gus, or as a dealer under Gus (which I find hard to swallow with a Salamanca being below Gus given the history), or another distributor?

At some time, it was said that Gus was responsible for the cartel operations north of the border, and the impression i got was that this was a long standing arrangement. However, how then was Tuco operating? Was ABQ a standalone area for him to work in? My U.S.A. geography is dreadful, but would ABQ be big enough for there to be 2 rival, yet connected, distributors?

Also, if Tuco was handling the dealing, while Gus handled the manufacturing and distribution, as in they were partners, wouldn't Tuco have brought Walt and Jesse to Gus to get them to cook for him, instead of deciding to try to get to Mexico with the cartel? since, you would assume, Gus would have easier ties and methods of transport across the borders to go with his years of experience?

Kirby

Tuco was smalltime. Dealing in a few pounds at a time. Gus was nationwide and was dealing with thousands of pounds. It's perfectly conceivable that he wouldn't even be on Gus' radar.

Of course the real answer is probably that Gus didn't exist yet in the show as Vince hadn't thought him up yet but the above answer is sill plausible and believable.

Orim

Tuco was given some territory due to his family connections. Also I don't think Gus distributed locally at all, he sent it away to reduce the possibility of a connection to him.

I think I'll have to rewatch everything to make sure though. :pac:

Grimebox

Crackle wrote: »

But he only finds it in the roomba after Walt comes over to help him look for it, plus he said at the time he already checked it. Jesse may have had suspicions about the whole thing and Huell lifting the weed was the final piece in the puzzle for him.



One look at Walt would have been enough for Jesse to know that wasn't the case.

I understand how it was supposed to work. I just don't think its plausible

Penn

Grimebox wrote: »

This leaves out one important part imo. Jesse found the ricin in the roomba. Case closed. Huell never stole anything the first time around as far as Jesse is concerned. Huell stealing the weed triggered a memory of an event that Jesse didn't know about.

Jesse didn't know exactly how Walt did it and was acting purely on emotion, but knowing how manipulative Walt was and how he'd do anything he needed to do to win, and knowing that Gus didn't poison Brock but that Brock being poisoned was a huge coincidence which made him side with Walt and help him kill Gus... it was enough to make him realise that Walt was behind it. As another poster said, it was Walt who helped him find the ricin in somewhere Jesse had already checked.

Jesse didn't know everything that happened, but he realised Walt had to have been behind it. That was enough. Jesse has always acted on pure emotion, and though he didn't know or consider all the facts behind it, it confirmed a suspicion he'd had and just made him snap.

LionelNashe wrote: »

I think what makes it so hard to swallow is the idea that Gus would steal Jessie's ricin and use it to poison Brock. Gus would have had absolutely nothing to gain from such a bizarre act, but that is what Walt wanted Jesse to believe. I don't know why Walt ever thought that Jesse would believe it, and I don't know why Jesse did believe it.

Gus couldn't kill Walt because Jesse wouldn't allow it. Jesse wouldn't cook for him if Walt was killed.

Walt convinced Jesse that if Gus poisoned Brock, Jesse would think it was Walt (as revenge for how Jesse sided with Gus) and would kill Walt himself. Jesse being close to Walt meant Walt would let his guard down (as Walt knew Gus wanted him dead), and Jesse killing Walt himself would mean he'd keep cooking for Gus and Walt would be dead. Walt also reminded Jesse about Tomas, Andrea's brother, and how Gus' men killed him, so Gus had history of using and hurting children, whereas Walt was a father and would never hurt a child.

Nerdlingr

its the double-bluff.
walt uses brock as the pawn to play both gus and jesse. he backs himself that jesse will side with him, which turns out to be the case (just about, scene where jesse has the gun pointed at walt's forehead). walt plays the game and wins. "I won".

Grimebox

I suppose if Jesse actually didn't fully realise it until he confronts Saul, it makes more sense to me. Saul spilling the beans would confirm his outlandish conclusion.

What you're saying Penn just fits together too neatly for me. But that's something I've come to realise recently with breaking bad, especially in the later seasons.

Jikashi

folan wrote: »

This is a Season 1&2 question really, but bugged me a bit.

Tuco Salamanca was a local distributor or dealer? did he work in parallel with Gus, or as a dealer under Gus (which I find hard to swallow with a Salamanca being below Gus given the history), or another distributor?

At some time, it was said that Gus was responsible for the cartel operations north of the border, and the impression i got was that this was a long standing arrangement. However, how then was Tuco operating? Was ABQ a standalone area for him to work in? My U.S.A. geography is dreadful, but would ABQ be big enough for there to be 2 rival, yet connected, distributors?

Also, if Tuco was handling the dealing, while Gus handled the manufacturing and distribution, as in they were partners, wouldn't Tuco have brought Walt and Jesse to Gus to get them to cook for him, instead of deciding to try to get to Mexico with the cartel? since, you would assume, Gus would have easier ties and methods of transport across the borders to go with his years of experience?

When Tuco died, Heisenberg takes over the void he left and has Jesse, Skinny Pete, Badger and Combo dispatched within Tuco's old turf. When Walt orders them to expand, they goes out into different territory manned by Gus' dealers, which is why Combo was killed. This would seem to suggest that Tuco's turf was previously separate from Gus' even before Heisenberg came on the scene. The cartel could have had the region before Gus built his empire, and because Tuco was descended from a high ranking cartel boss (Hector Salamance), that area was probably grandfather-claused as long as Salamancas operated there. Gus would not mind this as it is a negligible amount of geography in his otherwise huge empire, and to stay on somewhat amicable terms with the cartel bosses as long as Tuco and his men didn't venture outside their spot on the map.

folan

yeah, it just seems strange to me that it was never made that clear, but then it probably didn't need to be, and im over analysing it to the point of confusing myself.

it just strikes me as strange that the two would operate in parallel in the same area, though both were branches of the same company.

Penn

folan wrote: »

yeah, it just seems strange to me that it was never made that clear, but then it probably didn't need to be, and im over analysing it to the point of confusing myself.

it just strikes me as strange that the two would operate in parallel in the same area, though both were branches of the same company.

I'd say they were likely used to keep each other in check. Besides which, Gus always avoided working with people like Tuco. That's why he initially didn't want to work with Walt because he saw how Jesse was acting.

rubadub

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

But the girl in Marty Robbins song is called Feleena not Felina

And the girl in the song is called Windy, not Wendy, phonetically similar though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_50AduGvQAU

penzo

Jikashi wrote: »

When Tuco died, Heisenberg takes over the void he left and has Jesse, Skinny Pete, Badger and Combo dispatched within Tuco's old turf. When Walt orders them to expand, they goes out into different territory manned by Gus' dealers, which is why Combo was killed. This would seem to suggest that Tuco's turf was previously separate from Gus' even before Heisenberg came on the scene. The cartel could have had the region before Gus built his empire, and because Tuco was descended from a high ranking cartel boss (Hector Salamance), that area was probably grandfather-claused as long as Salamancas operated there. Gus would not mind this as it is a negligible amount of geography in his otherwise huge empire, and to stay on somewhat amicable terms with the cartel bosses as long as Tuco and his men didn't venture outside their spot on the map.

I'm a bit blurred over the part of jessie and walt basically killing (ok hank put the final bullet) tuco and then later jessie working being sent to work with the cartel. is it expected that it was ignored as part of the deal or did they not know?

Jikashi

I watched the show as it was coming out each week from Season 2 onwards so I might be a bit rusty on the finer points, but to my recollection: the Cousins wanted to kill this Heisenberg fellow for the death of Tuco, but by the time they tracked him down as Walter White, he was working for Gus. Neither Gus nor the Cartel would allow more blood to be spilled on either side to further damage the relationship above and below the border. But the Cousins want someone to pay, so Gus diverts them to Hank instead. So after the failed assassination of Hank, from Gus' perspective he had put the Cartel and the DEA at war, which resulted in the death of that cartel boss who sent the Cousins. From the cartel's perspective, the Cousins went rogue and attacked a DEA agent without either side's say-so (I don't believe the cartel were aware of Gus giving them permission to attack Hank, and Gus has Mike silence the surviving brother so that fact will not come out) and got their faction killed by the DEA task force as a result. To mend the relationship between the cartel and Gus for the sh1t that the Cousins seemed to have caused for them both, Gus offered the peace-offering of a blue-sky cook to provide the product on both sides of the border and keep the cartel happy. Of course this was just a means of getting himself and Mike close enough to a gathering of all the cartel dons and capos to assassinate the lot of them in Salud.

Orim

That's pretty much it but the cartel were ok with the cousins killing Walt. Gus got some leeway saying he had business to finish. That's why they were hanging around.

Jikashi

Orim wrote: »

That's pretty much it but the cartel were ok with the cousins killing Walt. Gus got some leeway saying he had business to finish. That's why they were hanging around.

The cartel wouldn't have given a rat's ass if the Cousins killed Walt, but would definitely have an issue with them going after a DEA agent. Gus knew the Cousins weren't prepared to wait for his cook to be done, so took advantage of the Cousins' impatience for revenge and sicced them on Hank without the cartel's knowledge and start a war in which he would appear to be uninvolved in the eyes of both the DEA and more to the point, the cartel..

Only thing I can't remember for sure, were the Cousins aware that Hank Schrader was a DEA agent? If they were, surely they would be aware of the ****storm they would cause for the cartel if they attacked him. I know they attacked him in the DEA parking lot but Hank was in plain clothes and vehicle with no weapon.

penzo

did jessies involvement in the early days with tuco go unnoticed with the cartel and they thought he was a side person that was thought the recipe?

didn't the cartel get told by tuco when they were in the house with hector who was there?

I'm just surprised that the cartel let it slide that jessie was involved to work with him. even for such a big price it seems unlikely.

Polka_Dot

I never really understood Madrigal's involvement in the whole business. Were they actively facilitating the meth business, did they simply know about it and not do anything, or something different altogether?

mrkiscool2

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

But the girl in Marty Robbins song is called Feleena not Felina

Marty Robbins wrote a follow up song to el paso
A follow-up to 'El Paso', this tells the story of Feleena's life.
Felina is an anagram of finale Sin e Vince worked in the El paso song
later as an afterthought.

I think Vince is far to clever for it to be just an afterthought! I'd say he knew how the name was spelt, but because it sounds phonetically the same and ties in with an anagram of finale and the "Blood, Meth and Tears" explanation, it would work perfectly!

chickenboy

Polka_Dot wrote: »

I never really understood Madrigal's involvement in the whole business. Were they actively facilitating the meth business, did they simply know about it and not do anything, or something different altogether?

I got the impression that overall Madrigal were a normal company, and had no knowledge of the meth business. Gus, Lydia and the german fellow who killed himself were the only ones in on it, and used the companies infrastructure to ship product and obtain supplies on the quiet.

MOH

LionelNashe wrote: »

I think what makes it so hard to swallow is the idea that Gus would steal Jessie's ricin and use it to poison Brock. Gus would have had absolutely nothing to gain from such a bizarre act, but that is what Walt wanted Jesse to believe. I don't know why Walt ever thought that Jesse would believe it, and I don't know why Jesse did believe it.

I'm going to have to go back and watch it again, because it was a while ago and I'm getting confused between all the Walt/Jesse confrontations over the years, but wasn't it something along the lines of:

- Walt makes ricin, vial is hidden in Jesse's cigarette for him to poison Gus
- Brock gets poisoned
- Jesse discovers ricin cigarette missing, assumes it's his fault, that Brock somehow ... what?... found and ate the cigarette?
- Jesse then comes to the conclusion that Walt was responsible
- Jesse confronts Walt, is about to shoot him, when Walt manages to convince him that it was Gus
- Jesse is back on team Walt, they plot against Gus
- Eventually turns out it was lily of the valley that poisoned Brock, so Gus wasn't responsible, but doesn't matter at that stage anyway. The audience then find out it *was* Walt.

- A year later Jesse realises Huell pickpocketed his weed, therefore Huell pickpocketed his ricin cig, therefore .... Walt poisoned Brock with lily of the valley to turn him against Gus?

It all seems a bit thin. Even aspects of the original poisoning seem a little weak looking back on it. The only way it makes sense is if Saul was in on the poisoning, and Jesse beats it out of him.

ceadaoin.

MOH wrote: »

It all seems a bit thin. Even aspects of the original poisoning seem a little weak looking back on it. The only way it makes sense is if Saul was in on the poisoning, and Jesse beats it out of him.

Saul is the one who gave Brock the poison for Walter. It doesn't go into details of how he did it but him and Walter discuss it briefly in his office. He had access to him as would go there to give Andrea money on Jesses behalf.

Wanderer2010

How much time exactly elapsed between when Walt robs the car with the snow around it at the start of the finale and when he picks up the M60 in Dennys? Also, how did he even get that M60, was it an old contact from the days of Gus who he just called up and asked to have it dropped to him in the car park? That would have taken at least a day between contact and collection surely?

rubadub

http://www.vulture.com/2013/08/jesse-breaking-bad-ricin-cigarettes.html

At Comic-Con earlier this summer, BB creator Vince Gilligan explained it thusly: " I think probably what [Walt] did was crush some of the [Lilly of the Valley berries] up and put it in a juice box or something, and being a teacher, he probably knew his way around a school and he probably got into Brock's nursery school. That's our inter-story for how it would have happened. It would have been tricky."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/allenstjohn/2013/08/26/breaking-bad-511-recap-the-case-of-the-missing-backstory-or-wtf-did-jesse-realize-about-the-ricin-cigarette/

“The way we worked it out, [Walt] had just enough time to do it but it would have been very tricky indeed. It was improbable perhaps, but not impossible,” said Gilligan about the missing backstory. “But he was a very motivated individual at that point.”

Turtyturd

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

How much time exactly elapsed between when Walt robs the car with the snow around it at the start of the finale and when he picks up the M60 in Dennys? Also, how did he even get that M60, was it an old contact from the days of Gus who he just called up and asked to have it dropped to him in the car park? That would have taken at least a day between contact and collection surely?

There must have been a lot of confusion with the timeline because they outlined it on talking bad. Walt 's journey cross country took 3 days...and he got the M60 from the same guy who sold him the gun in an earlier episode.

Chet T16

Walt makes a comment to the waitress that it takes '30 hours if all you stop for is gas' which I assumed was based on him just having done it.

I think the final episode spanned 3 days total

Wanderer2010

Turtyturd wrote: »

There must have been a lot of confusion with the timeline because they outlined it on talking bad. Walt 's journey cross country took 3 days...and he got the M60 from the same guy who sold him the gun in an earlier episode.

Which gun was that, I can only recall Walt buying a gun from a guy in Season 4 episode 2, which was quiet a while back and presumably he now knows that Walt/Heisinberg is on the run so that makes him quite a 'hot' client- for all he knew they were watching Walt so dropping him a car and M60 in the middle of Dennys was a huge risk for him. Yes, I was confused about the timeline and how long it took from Walt robbing the car to going back to the house to get the ricin/meet up with Todd and Lydia. Its not a huge deal I was just curious as to the timeline of events.

Also, who was the culprit who sprayed Heisenberg in the house. At the time of Walt going on the run, he was wanted for the murder of 2 DEA agents not being the head of a meth business. The only people who knew the Heisenberg persona were the DEA, Jessie, Walt and the family and also Badger and Skinny Pete, so who sprayed it? Are we as the audience supposed to just think the rumour about Walt being Heisenberg spread and some local punk kids just sprayed it?

clairefontaine

What happened to Heisenbergs hat in the last episode?

ballsymchugh

clairefontaine wrote: »

What happened to Heisenbergs hat in the last episode?

probably didn't fit properly when he had hair :pac:

Jikashi

I guess once Walt was honest with himself that everything he did he did because he liked it, rather than feeling he had to, he no longer needed the psuedo-dual-persona divide that the Heisenberg hat represented