Argentina v. Nueva Zelanda, match preview & thread, Sat 28 Sep, 2340 Irish time

Swiwi.

Can the Pumas pounce?

Argentina: 15 Juan Martin Hernandez, 14 Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Santiago Fernandez, 11 Juan Imhoff, 10 Nicolas Sanchez, 9 Martin Landajo, 8 Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 7 Pablo Matera, 6 Juan Fernandez Lobbe (captain), 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Julio Farias Cabello, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Eusebio Guinazu, 1 Marcos Ayerza.
Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Nahuel Lobo, 18 Juan Pablo Orlandi, 19 Mariano Galarza, 20 Benjamín Macome, 21 Tomas Cubelli, 22 Felipe Contepomi, 23 Horacio Agulla.

New Zealand: 15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read, 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Andrew Hore, 1 Tony Woodcock.
Replacements: 16 Kevin Mealamu, 17 Wyatt Crockett, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Jeremy Thrush, 20 Steven Luatua, 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Charlie Piutau.

Date: Saturday, September 28
Venue: Estadio Ciudad de la Plata
Kick-off: 19:40 local (22:40 GMT)
Referee: Jaco Peyper

In April 1889, Michael Phelan packed his bags and left Waterford City for a new life in Argentina. He was one of about 50,000 Irish emigrants who left the Emerald Isle for las Provincias Unidas del Río de la Plata in the period 1830-1930. 124 years later, his great-great grandson Santiago Phelan will try and create some history of his own by masterminding a first ever Argentinian defeat over NZ. The country might have its etymological roots in silver, but Captain Lobbe and his team will hope to strike gold.

To do that, los Pumas will need to substantially lift their game from the somewhat disappointing last outing against Australia. They were full of endeavour but woefully impotent on attack, even if the weather wasn't particularly conducive to free-flowing running rugby. To that end, I am delighted to see Martin Landajo restored to scrumhalf where he looks a good bit better than his rivals, Marcelo Bosch back at outside centre, and Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino starting on the wing.

Argentina also welcome back (with wide open arms) Patricio Albacete from injury - he is their one genuine lineout option in the 2nd row, and should take some of the pressure off Lobbe. The Argentinian lineout struggled last time against the All Blacks, so this should hopefully shore things up. The other player to watch is highly impressive tighthead prop Juan Figallo, who may well yet figure in the team of the tournament.

New Zealand have made just the 2 changes to their starting lineup from the sullied victory over South Africa - Andrew Hore starts at hooker in what might be one of his few remaining games for the ABs, being rumoured to hang up his boots in the near future. And AC returns for DC who has done his AC. Ma'a Nonu & Conrad Smith will appear together for the 50th time, equalling the world record currently held by...well...have a go at the poll (if you get the answer wrong, your Irish citizenship is summarily revoked, especially if you hail from Leinster...no hints now).

Argentina will look to keep this game tight, where they have a robust forward pack, competitive loose forwards ably lead by JFL, and a tightish defence under the watchful eye of Sir Graham. But they really will have to create some tries if they want to win this game. And not give away silly penalties.

New Zealand will look to get more fluid on attack ahead of next weekend's crunch match with the Bokke, and maybe see if the scrum can be a little more solid, otherwise business as usual.

This competition would really benefit from an upset, and Argentina taking down NZ would certainly tick the box. However, I can't see that happening, and NZ by 15 to 20 seems realistic.

Rightwing

Argies seem to be on a downward curve, I'd go for the ABs -15

CatFromHue

Swiwi. wrote: »

In April 1889, Michael Phelan packed his bags and left Waterford City for a new life in Argentina. He was one of about 50,000 Irish emigrants who left the Emerald Isle for las Provincias Unidas del Río de la Plata in the period 1830-1930. 124 years later, his great-great grandson Santiago Phelan will try and create some history of his own by masterminding a first ever Argentinian defeat over NZ. The country might have its etymological roots in silver, but Captain Lobbe and his team will hope to strike gold.

Another Waterford man played a big part in New Zealand's history. William Hobson, born in Waterford, was the first Governor of New Zealand and a co-author of the Treaty of Waitangi.

Swiwi.

CatFromHue wrote: »

Another Waterford man played a big part in New Zealand's history. William Hobson, born in Waterford, was the first Governor of New Zealand and a co-author of the Treaty of Waitangi.

I knew of Hobson of course, the Treaty is one of those mandatory subjects at school in NZ, but no idea about the Irish connection. Cheers!

CatFromHue

Was rugby in Argentina founded by a Blackrock man?

Swiwi.

CatFromHue wrote: »

Was rugby in Argentina founded by a Blackrock man?

You've got me there. This is an interesting article from the NZ papers on Argentinian rugby

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/9218611/The-slow-and-winding-road-of-Argentine-rugby

Buer

CatFromHue wrote: »

Was rugby in Argentina founded by a Blackrock man?

I believe it was actually the English that brought the game there although it's often commented that it was Irish missionaries.

If they were Irish, it usually thought it was the Christian Brothers who brought rugby to Argentina (Blackrock being Holy Ghost). The best known nursery for Argentine rugby talent is Newman College (a CB).

Swiwi.

Almost wish I wasn't supporting NZ here, an Argentinian victory over NZ at home would really be something.

Hagz

CatFromHue wrote: »

Was rugby in Argentina founded by a Blackrock man?

Why do you think they wear blue and white?

Buer

I wanted to bet on this game but I simply have no idea how it will go aside from a Kiwi win.

Buer

Bright start from the Argies. Imhoff is a serious runner when he's attacking the line. Racing badly miss him at the moment.

Hagz

Wait....is this match on now?!

EIDT: Wow! I should read the thread title more often.

matthew8

Good start by Argentina.

Swiwi.

Great start by Argentina. Look highly organised tonight.

errlloyd

Well if it stays at this pace I'll be delighted. Off topic, after a wildly successful RWC in 2007 why didn't Juan Martin stay at out half?

Swiwi.

Hagz wrote: »

Wait....is this match on now?!

EIDT: Wow! I should read the thread title more often.

:pac:

Buer

errlloyd wrote: »

Well if it stays at this pace I'll be delighted. Off topic, after a wildly successful RWC in 2007 why didn't Juan Martin stay at out half?

He is probably a better full back, to be honest. Argentina didn't have the resources at the time and had Corleto who could do a great job at full back and was in good form. Hernandez was a full back by trade and all his early games were there for Argentina.

Swiwi.

Argentina really lift their game at home. They are causing NZ a bit of bother, let alone the Aussies next week.

Buer

Justin Marshall with a wonderful understanding of the laws.

Kiwi_knock

That is a try then

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

Justin Marshall with a wonderful understanding of the laws.

I have Spanish commentary

How good was Kieran Read's anticipation?

matthew8

You get all sorts of shenanigans at these Argentinian games. Biting, alleged gouging, excessive pitch sponsorship, absurd penalty attempts and laser pointers.

Buer

matthew8 wrote: »

You get all sorts of shenanigans at these Argentinian games. Biting, alleged gouging, excessive pitch sponsorship, absurd penalty attempts and laser pointers.

I normally do support the underdog but Argentina act like children far too much for my liking. I recall in 2007, they played complete silly buggers with the Ireland squad and gave them a training pitch that was purposely scheduled to clash with a local football match which meant Ireland couldn't train one day. They demand to be treated as a top tier nation but then behave like thugs and children at times.

ScissorPaperRock

What a scrum!

Swiwi.

NZ forwards are getting a bit bashed up here. Still our weak spot. Argentina are playing very well here, just the odd error letting them down.

danthefan

Argies doing incredibly well in the physical stakes but NZ still have all the class, will ease away in the 2nd half I reckon.

ScissorPaperRock

Yeah they're very much still in it with the first half closing. Some silly play at times (e.g. that drop goal attempt that led to the NZ try), but some impressive stuff too.

Todd Toddington III

Score please? In work:(

Swiwi.

danthefan wrote: »

Argies doing incredibly well in the physical stakes but NZ still have all the class, will ease away in the 2nd half I reckon.

Maybe. But NZ look a bit rattled. Reminds me too much of 2007. Even Wayne Barnes is involved :pac:

I'll settle for the victory. Screw the 4 try bonus! And we could head to SA for the decider.

Sam Cane & Liam Messam are just too underpowered for my liking. McCaw I miss you.

Swiwi.

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Score please? In work:(

NZ 11 v Arg 9

Grimebox

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Score please? In work:(

11-9 to NZ