A small request for some help

Dav

Hello all,

Adverts.ie are looking to tweak their sub categories for Consoles and Games and figured the best thing to do was go straight to the every day users of this section of Adverts and ask for their help on making sure they are displaying the most relevant and busiest categories as subs.

Both Richard and I will be keeping an eye on this thread and is looking for any and all suggestions that will help in their decision making process. This is an opportunity to suggest new sub categories, merge existing ones and so on. We'll let this thread run for a few days so Richard can get some answers from as many of you as possible, he may be in and posting on the thread if there's anything he'd like to clarify I'd say.

It'd also be great if you have any general Adverts.ie related feedback you'd like to share.

Thanks for your time folks.

super_furry

I use Adverts a lot for buying and selling games and I think that the categories are fine. My biggest grumble would be allowing multiple adverts from the same users to clog things up. You see people selling perhaps a dozen PS2 games at a five a pop and they make listings for each one when they should really be consolidating them. Aside from that I think things run well.

SeantheMan

-Users who make the multiple posts for the same item
Have them delete one
-People listing things at $1,000,000 etc to get to the "highest price" front page, but only selling some games/controllers
Lower the max possible limit - no console bundle etc will really ever go over 1-2,000
-Posts with no activity after a certain time should be archived


With regards to categories

You could probably make sub ones for Nintendo / PS / Xbox , especially with the upcoming launches

So Nintendo -> Wii , WiiU , DS
Playstations -> PS2, PS3 ,PS4
XBOX -> 360 , One

Maybe a seperate category for handhelds such as DS, 3DS , Vita etc

cherryghost

My biggest gripe is that consoles and games don't have their own filters. e.g. I was looking for a replacement PS3 the other day and I had to swathe through all the PS3 games too. Pain in the ass.

the groutch

maybe a Retro Gaming category?
could incorporate just about anything pre-PS1

Myrddin

the groutch wrote: »

maybe a Retro Gaming category?
could incorporate just about anything pre-PS1

There is one, they created it a few months back

Myrddin

cherryghost wrote: »

My biggest gripe is that consoles and games don't have their own filters. e.g. I was looking for a replacement PS3 the other day and I had to swathe through all the PS3 games too. Pain in the ass.

Agreed, it's very off-putting having to trawl through pages of irrelevance.

the groutch

tbh overall the level of moderating in the Console & Games categories seems to have dropped over the last 6 months odd.

there's huge amounts of rule breaches such as

Modded consoles & R4 cards by the bucketload
no asking price/"make me an offer"
breaking bumping rules (multiple ads or withdraw one and create the same one again)
etc.

and nothing seems to get done about them unless you report them, which I've stopped bothering with at this stage.

it's nothing personal against any mods/admins, but it does put me, and probably others off using the site, and that's before we even get into the issue of timewasters, off-ad dealings, blatant profiteering etc.

Myrddin

the groutch wrote: »

tbh overall the level of moderating in the Console & Games categories seems to have dropped over the last 6 months odd.

there's huge amounts of rule breaches such as

Modded consoles & R4 cards by the bucketload
no asking price/"make me an offer"
breaking bumping rules (multiple ads or withdraw one and create the same one again)
etc.

and nothing seems to get done about them unless you report them, which I've stopped bothering with at this stage.

it's nothing personal against any mods/admins, but it does put me, and probably others off using the site, and that's before we even get into the issue of timewasters, off-ad dealings etc.

Agreed on all counts. There's plenty of regulars in the Arcade & Retro forum who would echo the same sentiments too. Off thread dealing is the biggest problem with the games sections of Adverts to me. Offenders get a slap on the wrist, if anything at all, & continue on as they were. There are zero incentives to abide by the rules there. Personally I've stopped using Adverts for buying games/retro stuff, it's rife with off thread dealing, offers higher than asking, profiteering, & all manner of such.

I don't really know how to solve such issues, offenders have to be reported for any action to be taken & that gets tiresome after a while. Plus the site is a commercial one, so I expect banning or sanctioning offenders isn't in the interests of site policy really.

Tipsy McSwagger

SeantheMan wrote: »

-Users who make the multiple posts for the same item
Have them delete one
-People listing things at $1,000,000 etc to get to the "highest price" front page, but only selling some games/controllers
Lower the max possible limit - no console bundle etc will really ever go over 1-2,000
-Posts with no activity after a certain time should be archived


With regards to categories

You could probably make sub ones for Nintendo / PS / Xbox , especially with the upcoming launches

So Nintendo -> Wii , WiiU , DS
Playstations -> PS2, PS3 ,PS4
XBOX -> 360 , One

Maybe a seperate category for handhelds such as DS, 3DS , Vita etc

This

Optimus Prime

off thread dealing via pms is a huge issue. making an offer of asking only for it to be ignored because someone else commenting on the ad sends a pm to the user and outbids you over asking price. You shouldnt be able to pm (either way) until an offer is accepted and then the ad should be locked or something so no one else can comment on it or send a pm to the seller until its either marked as sold and closed, or unmarked as sale pending.

Maybe unmarking as sale pending would give the seller a free bump of the ad to let people know its back for sale if it falls through.

On the categories, its great to see an Arcade and retro section! It would be better if there was a separate "Arcade" and "Retro Games and Consoles" sections though i think.

Maybe a "Handhelds" "Consoles" and "Games" categorys, with "Consoles" and "games" divided into "Wii" "PS3" and "Xbox"

o1s1n

Nail on the head Keithgeo.

I don't bother with adverts anymore really due to the levels of off thread dealing.

As Keithgeo said, if users were unable to PM until an offer was accepted that would do a lot to end the practice.

Thecageyone

That happens in all categories, it's not game/console specific and I don't think it's what they're asking for.

As someone suggested, bunch all the Sony ones together - Psone/Vita/PS2/Ps3/Ps4 same with Xbox/360/One maybe a sub then for each for hardware.

And maybe a PC specific section for peripherals?

Myrddin

Thecageyone wrote: »

That happens in all categories, it's not game/console specific and I don't think it's what they're asking for.

Dav asked for general feedback too

Dav wrote: »

It'd also be great if you have any general Adverts.ie related feedback you'd like to share.

Thecageyone

Ok, that does go for the whole of adverts. I agree it is a major issue. But not one they can control so easily. I see it a lot in the photography section. I've been pm'd personally on the side of ads, chancers trying to undercut others in private.

Optimus Prime

Thecageyone wrote: »

Ok, that does go for the whole of adverts. I agree it is a major issue. But not one they can control so easily. I see it a lot in the photography section. I've been pm'd personally on the side of ads, chancers trying to undercut others in private.

Yeh it ruins adverts in my opinion, it really does, it undermines the whole "set an asking price". thats just my general feedback, i did mention a few things about the games section category too.

GarIT

I think the best thing to do is split consoles and games into two categories of consoles and games. With sub categories by manufacturer i.e. Xbox, PS, etc in each.

Overheal

Hardware and Software differentiation is always good. But you might get adverts combining both, like ex wives dumping their husbands console and pile of games in one lump :P

Retr0gamer

I'm very disappointed with the buyer protection on adverts as well and there's no punishment for people breaking the rules.

I bought a 3DO recently which was advertised as fully working. When I hooked it up it wasn't working at all. The seller was having none of it and said it was my fault. I brought it to the attention of the admins and they told me to call the police to try and get it sorted. That really isn't very helpful. The guy I reported wasn't punished at all and another user of boards.ie bought another console off that ended up not working as well. I've avoided using adverts since.

Wossack

^^^

its not like sellers have it rosy either

"offer 10% of your asking price, and a half painted bumper from a 1988 nissan sunny"

Myrddin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm very disappointed with the buyer protection on adverts as well and there's no punishment for people breaking the rules.

I bought a 3DO recently which was advertised as fully working. When I hooked it up it wasn't working at all. The seller was having none of it and said it was my fault. I brought it to the attention of the admins and they told me to call the police to try and get it sorted. That really isn't very helpful. The guy I reported wasn't punished at all and another user of boards.ie bought another console off that ended up not working as well. I've avoided using adverts since.

The feedback system really needs a serious change/overhaul. It needs to me made much more prominent to potential buyers if sellers have negative feedback. Instead we have a situation where when viewing the ad, it's not apparent or even visible, if the user has bad feedback. You have to actually leave the ad, & view the sellers profile to see the feedback score.

As it is, feedback isn't even a concern for people shopping on Adverts...they may not even be aware how to view a sellers feedback.

Thecageyone

I try not to buy or sell to anyone with any negatives. I know some people throw negative feedback because they were outbid, or because they suddenly decided it's not what they wanted etc [always look into it] ... I've never had this issue thankfully. 100% positive after 27 trades. Each most of those trades I met with the buyer/seller personally [bar one who was happy to have the item posted out without viewing in person, and they were happy when received] . I think that goes a long way.

There was one guy who bought a bridge cam from me, and in the advert I stated there was a scratch on the LCD that didn't affect images - he was fine with that, but later decided he wasn't so much. The camera was like new, as most of my items do be, besides. he pretty much wanted it to be brand new! SO I refunded him, and sold it very next day to an Admin on boards who agreed with me that the other guy was a bit silly. He lost out. But otherwise, never had an issue buying or selling through adverts.

Optimus Prime

I was selling to a lad last week, he made an offer i accepted. a week later heard nothing from him so i pm'd him and asked him what the story was. he said he was no longer interested, which is grand. But he then goes and leaves me Neutral feedback?! I didn't even realize it at first,i thought he left positive feedback because i was understanding that he didnt want the item anymore. its that sort of carry on that makes the feedback system pointless. Ive over 100 positive and 0 negative, then some lad that wasted my time, didn't even buy anything off me, leaves me neutral feedback?

Thecageyone

Can't you report it? And state exactly that? They should remove any feedback that's unwarranted and give the ones doing it a warning, at the very least.

Myrddin

Thecageyone wrote: »

Can't you report it? And state exactly that? They should remove any feedback that's unwarranted and give the ones doing it a warning, at the very least.

Adverts has really outgrown the feedback system thats in operation there. It used to be perfectly fine, when it was a smaller more community oriented site, but it's a big enough beast these days. The feedback system hasn't grown with the site, and imo has been outgrown itself.

You should not be even able to leave feedback for someone unless you've completed a deal with them. You get all sorts of carry on these days, tit for tat bad feedback wars, etc. It's completely redundant, even more so given you can't even see the feedback score of a seller on the ad itself.

Honestly, I've gotten very tired of reporting things on adverts. And thats with all due respect to the moderators there, they're certainly willing to look at reports. But until there's a real & proper incentive for people to abide by the rules, it's just going to continue on where folks who abide by the rules easily lose out to those willing to break them.

Optimus Prime

I agree, you can report away, but to be honest, whats the point, you shouldnt have to go reporting this stuff, someone should not be able to leave you feedback unless a deal is completed. It should be on adverts.ie to fix this issue rather than users having to report it.

EnterNow is correct in saying that the only way to use adverts is to act like the rest of the guys who make off thread deals etc because otherwise you are losing out to these people, its so frustrating at times.

Atavan-Halen

Just gonna post what I posted in another thread:

Atavan-Halen wrote: »

I personally haven't had any bad experiences on adverts but perhaps If it could be set up that users can only exchange pm's once a price is agreed between both parties. That'd certainly cut down on off thread dealing.

the_syco

Three sub-categories;
Games
Accessories (controllers, etc)
Consoles

To make looking for a console that bit easier.

Also, maybe ban the stupid "€1" posts when in fact it's not a euro, but actually 80 games totalling €600 or so, etc.

gubbie

Thecageyone wrote: »

That happens in all categories, it's not game/console specific and I don't think it's what they're asking for.

I agree, the off thread dealing that goes on in the Lego category is a million times worse then what goes on in the console and games

Adverts.ie: Richard

Hi everyone

Many thanks for all your feedback and category suggestions.

Just want to say all the issues in relation to the site are being addressed over the next few months. The site has grown so quickly and has just short of 500,000 registered users now. Our development team are working flat out to bring in changes.

I just wanted to address a few issues brought up on the thread.

Firstly with the big topic of off thread dealing. We will be bringing in some new changes very shortly in relation to users private messaging each other. It will include the restriction of messaging only when an offer is accepted.

The only way to warn other users about a bad user is to leave feedback. You have to remember that Adverts is a platform for selling. Each transaction is a private deal and it is up to the buyer/seller to make the decision to deal. Adverts is not responsible for transactions and can only help users to resolve disputes. In the end of the day "Caveat Emptor"

The feedback system is also being reviewed and the point about it not being visible on the actual advert is going to be changed. Thanks for that.
Feedback in general is a more difficult area. You have to accomadate users that dont complete deals when one party does not communicate once an offer is accepted but again this should improve when the private messaging system is tightened up.

Thanks again

Richard

Myrddin

Adverts.ie: Richard wrote: »

Firstly with the big topic of off thread dealing. We will be bringing in some new changes very shortly in relation to users private messaging each other. It will include the restriction of messaging only when an offer is accepted.

It happens often enough, that a seller will renege on a deal in light of an offer higher than asking. In a scenario where a seller accepts an offer, & then another offer comes in, higher again, or higher than asking price even, & they do the deal with the second user/higher offer...I trust that'd be grounds for negative feedback? Or will the thread auto-lock once an offer is accepted, to stamp out any rule breakers?

The only way to warn other users about a bad user is to leave feedback. You have to remember that Adverts is a platform for selling. Each transaction is a private deal and it is up to the buyer/seller to make the decision to deal. Adverts is not responsible for transactions and can only help users to resolve disputes. In the end of the day "Caveat Emptor"

Does Adverts not share some responsibility in ensuring that users are abiding by rules though? In relation to users who continually break rules etc, can we not expect some sanctions in those cases? To use Retrogamer's recent case:

I bought a 3DO recently which was advertised as fully working. When I hooked it up it wasn't working at all. The seller was having none of it and said it was my fault. I brought it to the attention of the admins and they told me to call the police to try and get it sorted. That really isn't very helpful. The guy I reported wasn't punished at all and another user of boards.ie bought another console off that ended up not working as well. I've avoided using adverts since.

Is the seller in this case just getting off Scot free with just some negative feedback? What about a strikeout rule, where if enough cases of screwing people over come in about a user, they get flagged for a review & possible ban? Is that even worthwhile, or can they just reregister a new account?

The feedback system is also being reviewed and the point about it not being visible on the actual advert is going to be changed. Thanks for that.
Feedback in general is a more difficult area. You have to accomadate users that dont complete deals when one party does not communicate once an offer is accepted but again this should improve when the private messaging system is tightened up.

I agree that if a user is hard-done by when another backs out of an agreed deal, then negative feedback is warranted. Perhaps only open up feedback issuing once an offer has been accepted?

penev10

I've been using Adverts (mainly for selling games) for 3 years and on the whole have found it to be a great platform for private sales.

The off-thread dealing would be my main gripe. In fairness, I think a lot of people aren't aware that they are "off-thread dealing" and that this is behaviour is forbidden. The rules need to be a bit more in people's faces. Maybe a pop-up when someone goes to ask a question/make an offer? Possibly with a tick box stating they agree to the following rules making it harder to skip without reading. Wouldn't have to be comprehensive just a quick note about keeping dealings on the thread etc.

I know the Seller's House Rules appear in a small link when you create an ad but again this is easily missed.

Adverts.ie: Richard

EnterNow wrote: »

It happens often enough, that a seller will renege on a deal in light of an offer higher than asking. In a scenario where a seller accepts an offer, & then another offer comes in, higher again, or higher than asking price even, & they do the deal with the second user/higher offer...I trust that'd be grounds for negative feedback? Or will the thread auto-lock once an offer is accepted, to stamp out any rule breakers?

This should be sorted when the new private messaging restriction come in. If you have an accepted offer from a seller, you can leave feedback if they pull out.

EnterNow wrote: »

Does Adverts not share some responsibility in ensuring that users are abiding by rules though? In relation to users who continually break rules etc, can we not expect some sanctions in those cases? To use Retrogamer's recent case:

We give out warnings to users which are not visible to the general public. We do have a 3 strikes and your out policy but this can be quicker if we feel they are complete messers. We are trying to reduce the amount of timewasters and it is at the forefront of our minds.

EnterNow wrote: »

Is the seller in this case just getting off Scot free with just some negative feedback? What about a strikeout rule, where if enough cases of screwing people over come in about a user, they get flagged for a review & possible ban? Is that even worthwhile, or can they just reregister a new account?

Negative feedback can be quite powerful and usually users have to build up a few positives to get users to trust them again after a negative. We have a vast amount of filters in our system, checking numbers, email addresses etc so we can catch scammers or rereged users when they try and engage on the site after been banned. We are not restricted on banning users as we have a massive volumne joining up daily. But of course our users play a huge role in helping prevent timewasters.

EnterNow wrote: »

I agree that if a user is hard-done by when another backs out of an agreed deal, then negative feedback is warranted. Perhaps only open up feedback issuing once an offer has been accepted?

That is the plan.

Myrddin

Sounds like some very positive changed ahead Richard, thanks for the info

Adverts.ie: Richard

Thanks for everything, I am going to close this thread now. Hopefully any of you that have not used Adverts recently will be back when the new changes come in.

Thanks again

Richard

Dav

Just to reiterate Richard's thanks folks, this sort of feedback is extremely useful for Adverts and it's good to see they're working on a lot of the issues raised already. I'll close the thread, but will bring it back up when some of these changes get rolled out on the site just to let you all know.