Bad vibe after All Ireland Senior Football Final?

Blizzard 2010

aveytare wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea where I could watch the full match again? I'm from the black North so I can't watch it on the rte website - might be outta luck.

Most likely you tube

Ace2007

sid waddell wrote: »

As a Dublin supporter I strongly disagree with this. Dublin did foul more. 32-12 was the actual count, but I made it 36-13.

The notion that Dublin were in any way hard done by by McQuillan is simply wrong, and Jim Gavin's comments were a disappointment to me.

So you were keeping count while at the match?

sid waddell

Ace2007 wrote: »

So you were keeping count while at the match?

I watched the match back twice, looked at every incident, and kept count.

Ace2007

sid waddell wrote: »

I watched the match back twice, looked at every incident, and kept count.

So did you see all the off ball/off camera fouls and keep count of them?

sid waddell

Ace2007 wrote: »

So did you see all the off ball/off camera fouls and keep count of them?

Did you?

Ace2007

sid waddell wrote: »

Did you?

Yes I was at the game, and saw what went on, and saw what the ref didn't give free's for - it's easy to sit at home and go by the stats and what the camera shows.

If you lose and blame the ref - people say look at your own performance.

and then when you speak out about how bad the ref is when you win - your told to stfu basically cause you won.

If there were 2 Ref's in a game it might work better.

sid waddell

Ace2007 wrote: »

Yes I was at the game, and saw what went on, and saw what the ref didn't give free's for - it's easy to sit at home and go by the stats and what the camera shows.

If you lose and blame the ref - people say look at your own performance.

and then when you speak out about how bad the ref is when you win - your told to stfu basically cause you won.

If there were 2 Ref's in a game it might work better.

I was at the game and didn't see anything out of the ordinary in terms of off the ball stuff.

I'd be a supporter of two referees simply because I think it would increase the chances of having less errors.

But that would be almost impossible to implement at club level where it's difficult enough to get one referee.

wirelessdude01

Ace2007 wrote: »

Did you notice the Mayo lads doing in to Dublin as well?

Apart from the O'Shea brothers and Andy Moran our lads aren't really all that big and can't really bully people. That is part of our problem with regards to closing out the big games.


Well at least our manager doesn't sprout nonsense to the media then about not being cynical. Gavin let himself down with the comments. Watched the game back last night and there could be a 3/4 free swing in favour of either team but the count would still be hugely in favour of Mayo. Now if the ref is as bad as Gavin is making out then he won't even get an u12's game again never mind an AI final.

jack presley

sid waddell wrote: »

I watched the match back twice, looked at every incident, and kept count.

Did you subtract one off your Dublin score for the O'Carroll shoulder that got him the yellow card?

wirelessdude01

jack presley wrote: »

Did you subtract one off your Dublin score for the O'Carroll shoulder that got him the yellow card?

In real time it looked worse than it was. Two refs might have made a difference with that.

jack presley

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

In real time it looked worse than it was. Two refs might have made a difference with that.

Yeah I know. I'm just curious as to whether it was 1 of the 36 that Sid included in his count. He did watch the game more than once

harpsman

bohsboy wrote: »

Have to laugh at the accusation that Dublin employed negative tactics for the last few minutes. What did you expect, allow Mayo players to waltz by them unchallenged? They would never be forgiven for letting a player by them to score the winner for Mayo. That's sport, soccer players will bring it into the corner flag or take a tactical yellow to slow the game down. Every single club or county team would have done the same at that critical stage of the season.

Short memories Mayo have too of their second half display in last years semi against Dublin when they systematically went down injured after every challenge and rolled around. The physio was only short of taking a pass at one stage.

There are other options-how about just tackling??

PRAF

Billy Mays wrote: »

I'll agree Dublin were cynical towards the end of the game but Gavin is completely right about the referee. I was at the game on Sunday and thought at the time he gave Mayo a lot of soft frees. Watched the game again yesterday and nothing I saw changed my mind. Any time a Mayo player seemed to get bottled up in possession he'd get a free, the same thing would happen to a Dublin player and he'd be penalised for over-carrying.

One of my pet peevs in GAA is forwards running into tackles and then going to ground too easily. Mayo seemed to get a lot of those soft frees on Sunday.

On the other hand, I'd see Brogan or Andrews being pulled back at times and they were being done for over-carrying.

IMO there was no way Dublin were 3 times as dirty as Mayo during the game. Where I'd disagree with Gavin is that there is any suspicion of bias from the ref against the Dubs. I suspect that the Mayo forwards were just a bit cuter when it came to winning frees.

If there was any bias, perhaps it was just in 50:50 challenges, the ref was more likely to give a free for the smaller forward than for the bigger defender.

yop

So Dublin lads think the ref was soft on Mayo and Mayo lads think that the ref was soft on Dublin, thats about right then

Fr Tod Umptious

I think what is most interesting is what Gavin said prior to the game about stepping back if his team were cynical

Taken from the Irish Independent

"I would be loath to think that if anyone said this Dublin team is cynical, you know, I'd take a step back if that was the case. I certainly wouldn't tolerate it from them and they know that as well,"

I think that is the most idiotic statement of all, in this day and age where cynicism is a huge talking point why leave yourself so open to accusations of hypocrisy with a statement like that. And Horan rightly accused him of that hypocrisy

The majority of manager are at least honest about it, and say 'yea we would be as cynical as the next guy if we needed to be'

yop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think what is most interesting is what Gavin said prior to the game about stepping back if his team were cynical

Taken from the Irish Independent


I think that is the most idiotic statement of all, in this day and age where cynicism is a huge talking point why leave yourself so open to accusations of hypocrisy with a statement like that. And Horan rightly accused him of that hypocrisy

The majority of manager are at least honest about it, and say 'yea we would be as cynical as the next guy if we needed to be'

Well thats a daft statement then from him!!! So when is he stepping down?

Godge

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If it is the Cooper incident then it was a clash of heads.

Either way the Dublin half-forward line seemed to spend the first half determined to stop the Mayo half-back line from going forward. Donie Vaughan was stopped at least 5-6 times in a 10min period. Connollys shirt was ripped when he had Keegan in a headlock to stop him running into space for a kickout. Stopped watching it then as I was amazed that the ref and/or linesmen didn't pick up on it.

It wasn't the Cooper incident.

There was a lot of cynicism on display well before the last 10 minutes.

Dublin had a number of shirts ripped by jersey pulling. Up until the time he went off, Paul Mannion never got more than a jersey pull distance away from his marker. The reason O'Gara created havoc was because he was stronger than the other Dublin forwards and could break away from the pulling, dragging and jersey-grabbing.

None of this is the fault of Dublin, Mayo or the referee. What Dublin, Kerry and Mayo have done this year is upped the pace of movement of the ball and players. Referees cannot keep up. They are having to judge penalty incidents from 40 yards away. For example if, for Brogan's first goal, had there been a push in the back by either defender or attacker, the referee would have had no chance of spotting it and would have relied on his umpires to say something and we all know that wouldn't happen.

Past30Now

jack presley wrote: »

Did you subtract one off your Dublin score for the O'Carroll shoulder that got him the yellow card?

Given that a player was concussed after the incident, then it doesn't really qualify as a fair shoulder. Clearly there was more contact than shoulder to shoulder. The fact that the aggressor came of worse doesn't make it any less dangerous.

Donnielighto

Neutral here, on border with Mayo but family from from Dublin.

Dublin were very cynical and Gavin's statement after the game acnt really be stood behind truthfully. Mayo have never been a cynical team in my time watchin the sport.

Tbf though it's what you expect from a few of the dublin lads and that isnt the end of the world as they have other fellas who are good enough footballers to not need that. Gavins comments about not allowing any player of his to carry on like that was manure and he didnt have to say it so it was trying to lead refs on. I like a lot of dublin players. I like the game being tough but it's this gamesmanship crap that is being encouraged by some managers that is hugely destructive to the game and thier duty of care to the sport. I hope Gavins legacy is mangled at some stage, not the players (bar maybe connolly and kevin mcm).

Terrible carry on. Black card system will suit them too. Watch next year, gavin will use the black cards for his subs and he'll be using them for red card offences, dirt.

Godge

Past30Now wrote: »

Given that a player was concussed after the incident, then it doesn't really qualify as a fair shoulder. Clearly there was more contact than shoulder to shoulder. The fact that the aggressor came of worse doesn't make it any less dangerous.

Seeing as the referee, the media and posters such as yourself have painted Dublin as the aggressors, it is actually quite strange to see how many of those so-called aggressors suffered as a result of their aggression. By my count, Mannion, O'Gara, O'Carroll, McCauley, O'Sullivan, McMahon all suffered injuries during the game, mustn't pay to be an aggressor?

O'Gara, now that is an interesting one. Not sure how that injury occurred but he is clearly taken out late in the build-up to the second goal having made his pass. Wasn't the first time that Mayo went in late or engaged in third-man tackles in the game.

Donnielighto

Past30Now wrote: »

Given that a player was concussed after the incident, then it doesn't really qualify as a fair shoulder. Clearly there was more contact than shoulder to shoulder. The fact that the aggressor came of worse doesn't make it any less dangerous.

Shoulder was fine, one of the hardest fair tackles ive seen at intercounty level in a long time, great to see. Knock to the head and concussion is after the fact stuff though, you dont judge on that, just on the initial action.

jack presley

Godge wrote: »

O'Gara, now that is an interesting one. Not sure how that injury occurred but he is clearly taken out late in the build-up to the second goal having made his pass. Wasn't the first time that Mayo went in late or engaged in third-man tackles in the game.

Wasn't O'Gara's injury a hamstring? If so, probably not as a result of aggression.

wirelessdude01

How can soft tissue injury be as a result of aggression? Hammers can go at any time. Really scraping the bottom with that comment.

yop

Godge wrote: »

Seeing as the referee, the media and posters such as yourself have painted Dublin as the aggressors, it is actually quite strange to see how many of those so-called aggressors suffered as a result of their aggression. By my count, Mannion, O'Gara, O'Carroll, McCauley, O'Sullivan, McMahon all suffered injuries during the game, mustn't pay to be an aggressor?

O'Gara, now that is an interesting one. Not sure how that injury occurred but he is clearly taken out late in the build-up to the second goal having made his pass. Wasn't the first time that Mayo Dublin went in late or engaged in third-man tackles in the game.

IFTFU

sid waddell

O'Gara got his injury stretching for the ball seconds before Dublin's second goal when he was in a battle with Keith Higgins to try and get his hand to Paul Flynn's long pass. You can see him writhing on the ground. It was entirely accidental.

wirelessdude01

sid waddell wrote: »

O'Gara got his injury stretching for the ball seconds before Dublin's second goal when he was in a battle with Keith Higgins to try and get his hand to Paul Flynn's long pass. You can see him writhing on the ground. It was entirely accidental.

I suppose next we will hear that Zippy blew him a kiss and that sort of passive aggression caused it.

PRAF

Funnily enough, I think the GAA will soon need to do something about the so called 'hard but fair' challenges. The problem with those is that when the players get bigger with better training / nutrition / etc, the impacts of those challenges increases and so does the risk of serious injury.

Players shouldn't be allowed go into those challenges in a reckless fashion. A shoulder should be about knocking someone off their stride, bumping them over the sideline, etc. It shouldn't be about trying to absolutely pulverise them. Now you can't and shouldn't ever take the physicality out of the GAA. However, I'd actually agree with the yellow that Rory O'Carroll got on Sunday.

jack presley

PRAF wrote: »

Funnily enough, I think the GAA will soon need to do something about the so called 'hard but fair' challenges. The problem with those is that when the players get bigger with better training / nutrition / etc, the impacts of those challenges increases and so does the risk of serious injury.

Players shouldn't be allowed go into those challenges in a reckless fashion. A shoulder should be about knocking someone off their stride, bumping them over the sideline, etc. It shouldn't be about trying to absolutely pulverise them. Now you can't and shouldn't ever take the physicality out of the GAA. However, I'd actually agree with the yellow that Rory O'Carroll got on Sunday.

Isn't there a contradiction there? You don't want the physicality taken out of the game but anyone who does a physical but legal challenge should get a yellow card?

PRAF

jack presley wrote: »

Isn't there a contradiction there? You don't want the physicality taken out of the game but anyone who does a physical but legal challenge should get a yellow card?

Not really. Nobody wants to see physicality taken out of the game. However, excessive and reckless challenges do need to be discouraged.

Other sports are doing it too. In rugby, a player cannot just pickup and slam an opponent down anyway they like. Spear tackles are a red card offence. In soccer, the tackle that gets the ball and then follows through and takes out the man is now illegal. Both rugby and american football are starting to examine collissions which are legal now in terms of the impact they are having on rates of concussion.

wirelessdude01

Issue will be determining what is and isn't a physical challenge. Sure don't a lot of players/managers/analysts say that the tackle is the one thing that is ruining gaelic football, or the lack of a real definition.