HAS THE TIME COME TO SPLIT DUBLIN GAA??

Ace2007

Dots1982 wrote: »

Dubs won't hear of it but the decision may be made for them when attendances go through the floor because nobody can compete with Dublin.

Dublin have taken over Leinster to the point where they have lost one game in 8 years. If that doesnt tell you something then you just don't want to listen.

The Kerry and Kilkenny thing is not applicable. They won everything because football and hurling is in the blood down there. Dublin win everything due to a overwhelming population advantage (at least double of every other county) as well other less significant advantages.

Should the Dublin hurlers be split up as well?
and the lady footballers?
and pretty much any sport where Dublin has one team?

The_Honeybadger

Dots1982 wrote: »

Dubs won't hear of it but the decision may be made for them when attendances go through the floor because nobody can compete with Dublin.

Dublin have taken over Leinster to the point where they have lost one game in 8 years. If that doesnt tell you something then you just don't want to listen.

The Kerry and Kilkenny thing is not applicable. They won everything because football and hurling is in the blood down there. Dublin win everything due to a overwhelming population advantage (at least double of every other county) as well other less significant advantages.

In fairness though Connaught and Munster are also very poorly contested. Munster is either cork or Kerry every year and Connaught is one of Mayo or Galway usually. Only ulster is truly competitive in that one of 4-5 teams is in with a shout. The provincial championship model is not fit for purpose at the moment, same teams getting walloped by the same big counties year on year. Hard to get excited about it.

Dots1982

Ace2007 wrote: »

Should the Dublin hurlers be split up as well?
and the lady footballers?
and pretty much any sport where Dublin has one team?

Nah, they haven't dominated like the footballers in Leinster. By the way I'm not saying Dublin should be spilt. Let's see how the next 5 years go first.

Bogsnorkler

Hold on, I'd say Cork have a similar amount of registered players and probably more success between hurling and football than Dublin.

Why are the masses not clambering to break us up? Are we not as hateable as Dublin! BOLLOCKS :mad:

Dots1982

mickeyk wrote: »

In fairness though Connaught and Munster are also very poorly contested. Munster is either cork or Kerry every year and Connaught is one of Mayo or Galway usually. Only ulster is truly competitive in that one of 4-5 teams is in with a shout. The provincial championship model is not fit for purpose at the moment, same teams getting walloped by the same big counties year on year. Hard to get excited about it.

Yes, but at least that has some semblance of competitiveness with one of two counties usually winning.

finky1

first point was shown a miss by hawkeye after 2 goes first showed point scored secound showed miss do you trust hawk eye

Ace2007

Dots1982 wrote: »

Nah, they haven't dominated like the footballers in Leinster. By the way I'm not saying Dublin should be spilt. Let's see how the next 5 years go first.

So basically the argument - you train hard for years, you now win your 3rd all Ireland in 18 years, so let's punish you and split the team up.

The reasons put forward by OP would apply to the hurlers, so you see where the thread ends up with - it's anti Dublin footballers cause they won yesterday.

Dyr

Quite the opposite, Dublin GAA should actually have the parts of kildare and meath that us dubs successfully colonized in the tiger era brought under its aegis. Successful social groupings should be rewarded while failing one be let go to the wall in their own time

Dots1982

Ace2007 wrote: »

So basically the argument - you train hard for years, you now win your 3rd all Ireland in 18 years, so let's punish you and split the team up.

The reasons put forward by OP would apply to the hurlers, so you see where the thread ends up with - it's anti Dublin footballers cause they won yesterday.

No it's not actually but when this issue comes up Dubs automatically go defensive and say its all a culchie plot. A spilt may happen in the future but for the moment the Dubs should enjoy their 7 Leinster title in 8 years and 2 All Ireland in 3.

copacetic

Dots1982 wrote: »

Dubs won't hear of it but the decision may be made for them when attendances go through the floor because nobody can compete with Dublin.

Dublin have taken over Leinster to the point where they have lost one game in 8 years. If that doesnt tell you something then you just don't want to listen.

The Kerry and Kilkenny thing is not applicable. They won everything because football and hurling is in the blood down there. Dublin win everything due to a overwhelming population advantage (at least double of every other county) as well other less significant advantages.

You haven't thought it through at all. Splitting Dublin would be worse for Leinster and for their teams.

Quite apart from the fact that their isn't actually a natural split that non-dubs make out. Assume you did split Dublin down the middle across the Liffey. We could still easily field two sides that would both win most of their games in Leinster. It would suit plenty of the players too.

A number of fit all stars and all Ireland winners sat on the bench most of the season and yesterday and didnt get a run, some couldn't even get in to squad. Alan Brogan, Bryan Cullen, Kevin Nolan, Michael Fitzsimmons. Other stars couldn't get in the squad all year.

Based purely on current squad. It would be a slightly stronger northside team, but only just.

So most likely every other year both Dblin teams would meet in the Leinster final, then one would go into the qualifiers with a pretty good chance of a win. Do all the other teams want that?

Now not only do you have a chance to meet Dublin every other year depending on the draw, you also have to potentially face the other Dublin anyway? Both teams are in theory slightly weaker, but it's hardly fair on a Wicklow, Louth or Wexford to potentially cause an upset against Dublin North, but then have to face Dublin South before having chance to win A Leinster title?

What would ruin attendances more than Dublin v Dublin in Leinster final? Especially since a lot of Dubs wouldn't be supportive of the split or either made up team..

Gryire

If you split Dublin they would never again win a Leinster not to mind an All Ireland. Its good crack to see the Dubs win one now and again. They will probably spend the next 6 months in Coppers and be back in another couple of years.

Dots1982

copacetic wrote: »

You haven't thought it through at all. Splitting Dublin would be worse for Leinster and for their teams.

Quite apart from the fact that their isn't actually a natural split that non-dubs make out. Assume you did split Dublin down the middle across the Liffey. We could still easily field two sides that would both win most of their games in Leinster. It would suit plenty of the players too.

A number of fit all stars and all Ireland winners sat on the bench most of the season and yesterday and didnt get a run, some couldn't even get in to squad. Alan Brogan, Bryan Cullen, Kevin Nolan, Michael Fitzsimmons. Other stars couldn't get in the squad all year.

Based purely on current squad. It would be a slightly stronger northside team, but only just.

So most likely every other year both Dblin teams would meet in the Leinster final, then one would go into the qualifiers with a pretty good chance of a win. Do all the other teams want that?

Now not only do you have a chance to meet Dublin every other year depending on the draw, you also have to potentially face the other Dublin anyway? Both teams are in theory slightly weaker, but it's hardly fair on a Wicklow, Louth or Wexford to potentially cause an upset against Dublin North, but then have to face Dublin South before having chance to win A Leinster title?

What would ruin attendances more than Dublin v Dublin in Leinster final? Especially since a lot of Dubs wouldn't be supportive of the split or either made up team..

You make decent points but at the moment Leinster is gone to hell competitiveness wise. The closest any of us got to them this year being seven points. That's not healthy. A spilt would at least make Dublin weaker and give incentive that they could beat them because at the moment its looks close to impossible with a huge prospect of Dublin getting even stronger.

Hammar

Can any of you dublin lads or ladies who have time throw up what a Northside and Southside Dublin football team would look like???

The_Honeybadger

Dots1982 wrote: »

You make decent points but at the moment Leinster is gone to hell competitiveness wise. The closest any of us got to them this year being seven points. That's not healthy. A spilt would at least make Dublin weaker and give incentive that they could beat them because at the moment its looks close to impossible with a huge prospect of Dublin getting even stronger.

Restructure the championship and it would be fairer, possibly a seeded structure with every county guaranteed 4-5 games allowing weaker counties to improve with a separate competition for the much weaker teams if they want to enter it. The provincial structure is only working in one province. The above would involve a root and branch reform if the current gaa competition and won't happen of course, but it really is getting tiresome at this stage.

Dublin will probably win the next 8 Leinster titles as well, it's a joke of a competition given their dominance. They won't however win the next 8 all Ireland's, very difficult to win back to back AI's any more so why even consider breaking up the team. Splitting the county wouldn't be supported by most people, although it is a pity to see really class players sitting on the bench and some even unable to make the squad. Great problem to have if you are the manager.

Les Ferdinand

Glenbhoy wrote: »

I think Dublin is certainly too big and splitting it into 2, 3 or 4 regions would make sense.

The problem I have with Dublin is not that they are too successful (although their recent domination of Leinster is a problem), but that one team is not enough to represent a population so huge. There has to be a huge amount of attrition in terms of players from those successful underage teams and the lack of a realistic inter county outlet has to be a disincentive for many talented players who fail to make the grade at senior inter-county level with the Dubs.

Another reason is that the size and vastness of Dublin's population means there is a disconnect there between players and supporters that doesn't (in my own experience anyway) exist in other counties. In my own relatively small county, I know a number of players and have always taken it for granted that I will always know or have a reasonable knowledge of a few players. When we have success, the whole county goes nuts, when we won an All Ireland we partied for several months!!

In my adopted home in South Dublin suburbia you wouldn't hardly have known there was a game on yesterday, granted, most of the residents are like myself, non-Dubs, and I know that had I went down to the local GAA club or a few of the pubs there would have been a fair few enjoying the festivities, but there's no comparison.

I say split the Dubs, into 2 or preferably 3, and not because they always win, as history shows they most definitely don't, but look at the increased joy the rest of the country would get if they got to beat the Dubs two or maybe three times in the same season!!!

They should've split Kilkenny years ago

Ace2007

Hammar wrote: »

Can any of you dublin lads or ladies who have time throw up what a Northside and Southside Dublin football team would look like???

How would split be done? Where you play or born or live.

Gryire

mickeyk wrote: »

Restructure the championship and it would be fairer, possibly a seeded structure with every county guaranteed 4-5 games allowing weaker counties to improve with a separate competition for the much weaker teams if they want to enter it. The provincial structure is only working in one province. The above would involve a root and branch reform if the current gaa competition and won't happen of course, but it really is getting tiresome at this stage.

Dublin will probably win the next 8 Leinster titles as well, it's a joke of a competition given their dominance. They won't however win the next 8 all Ireland's, very difficult to win back to back AI's any more so why even consider breaking up the team. Splitting the county wouldn't be supported by most people, although it is a pity to see really class players sitting on the bench and some even unable to make the squad. Great problem to have if you are the manager.

This great Dublin team won the semi-final by a point and the final by a point. With the new black card rules next year they will need at least 15 sub's to replace the 15 who will be black carded in the first half.

Balmed Out

This is the silliest thread ive seen in a long time.
From a Cork perspective id reckon someone from the County is probably several times more likely to be playing football or hurlng over the age of 16 then someone from the city. I would guess that the same is true in other urban centres. Should counties with a large rural population be split up too?

Dubliner28

Dots1982 wrote: »

Dubs won't hear of it but the decision may be made for them when attendances go through the floor because nobody can compete with Dublin.

Dublin have taken over Leinster to the point where they have lost one game in 8 years. If that doesnt tell you something then you just don't want to listen.

The Kerry and Kilkenny thing is not applicable. They won everything because football and hurling is in the blood down there. Dublin win everything due to a overwhelming population advantage (at least double of every other county) as well other less significant advantages.

Brilliant, thanks for the early morning entertainment. If Mayo/Donegal/Cork/Kerry were in Leinster they wouldn't win it 8 out of 9 years.
Mayo have no competition in the province and should be winning it more.
3 All Irelands in 17-18 years back up your point. Good lad.

Fr Tod Umptious

keithob wrote: »

Not a chance of this happening....... its would crush what gaa is all about... community and county!!! .....

thats some mayo team... and they won the minors on sunday... high possibility they will / could win next year or two.. will we be dividing mayo up into North Mayo and South Mayo???

But the original proposal back in 2002 to split Dublin was so that it would improve the community relationship
Dublin was sprawling and they felt that too many communities were too far removed both physically and socially from the existing Dublin GAA setup

And remember this was suggested at a time when Dublin were not doing well at football or hurling

The official report is on the GAA website but unfortunately only half of it is in the pdf that's up there so the piece on Dublin is missing

I'd love to read exactly how they came to their conclusion.

finky1

dublin are playing at home all the time very unfair on all other teams

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

freddiek wrote: »

Dublin have won 2 of the last 3 AI and will probably win 3 of the next 4. They are dominating at minor and U-21 level also

but in the last 33 years, they have just won 4.
In 2011 and 2013, Dublin won the final by 1 point. Its not like won they each championship with ease.
Between 2004 and 2009, Kerry won 4 all irelands out of the 6 years. Why wasnt there a call to split kerry?

freddiek wrote: »

Currently, Dublin players get to play every match in the AI Championship at home. In Dublin. In front of their own supporters who have their own private terrace. The Hill 16 element is less important but is indicative of how reverentially Dublin is treated by the GAA

Having all their games at Croke Park makes the most money for the GAA.

freddiek wrote: »

We have heard countless tales of inter-county standard players being forced to emigrate to look for work. So they are unavailable to their counties. Have u ever heard of a Dublin player having to emigrate?? No, me neither...

quick google got me that
http://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/conlon-hails-vins-before-emigrating-to-australia-27990129.html

freddiek wrote: »

So I say to the GAA, fairness must come before commerce. Dublin's status as the Association's cash cow cannot blind the GAA to reality.

so its fair to split a county in 2, because it won 2 of the last 3 all irelands?
If Mayo won the last 2 finals would you feel the same way about Mayo?

For the record, I'm from Roscommon.

mickyellow

Based on the squad on Sunday the Northside vs Southside squads would be as follows:

Northside:
Stephen Cluxton Goalkeeper Parnells
Philip McMahon Right Corner Back Ballymun Kickhams
Jonny Cooper Left Corner Back Na Fianna
James McCarthy Right Half Back Ballymun Kickhams
Ger Brennan Centre Back St Vincent's
Jack McCaffrey Left Half Back Clontarf
Paul Flynn Right Half Forward Fingallians
Ciarán Kilkenny Centre Forward Castleknock
Diarmuid Connolly Left Half Forward St Vincent's
Paddy Andrews Full Forward St. Brigids
Bernard Brogan Left Corner Forward St Oliver Plunkett's-ER
Bryan Cullen Substitute Skerries Harps
Darren Daly Substitute Fingal Ravens
Dean Rock Substitute Ballymun Kickhams


Southside

Rory O'Carroll Full Back Kilmacud Crokes
Michael Darragh MacAuley Midfield Ballyboden St. Enda's
Cian O'Sullivan Midfield Kilmacud Crokes
Paul Mannion Right Corner Forward Kilmacud Crokes
Denis Bastick Substitute Templeogue Synge Street
Michael Fitzsimons Substitute Cuala
Kevin McManamon Substitute St Jude's
Kevin Nolan Substitute Kilmacud Crokes
Eoghan O'Gara Substitute Templeogue Synge Street

tritium

Every so often an exceptionally good team will come along. Kerry had that in recent years and before, Tyrone too. It takes a lot of work to get to that level though and in getting there you should be dominating your province along the way (Ulster is a bit of an exception here). Eventually it becomes someone else turn to dominate and the cycle moves on. No one seemed to worry about Dublin's size back when Sean boylan was leading Meath to Leinster dominance. Thanks to the excesses of the boom most Leinster counties now actually have a bigger population pool to work with. But now that Dublin have a team that might, just might, become an exceptional and dominant team the problem is suddenly Dublin's size....

Seriously, change the record!

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

tritium wrote: »

Every so often an exceptionally good team will come along. Kerry had that in recent years and before, Tyrone too. It takes a lot of work to get to that level though and in getting there you should be dominating your province along the way (Ulster is a bit of an exception here). Eventually it becomes someone else turn to dominate and the cycle moves on. No one seemed to worry about Dublin's size back when Sean boylan was leading Meath to Leinster dominance. Thanks to the excesses of the boom most Leinster counties now actually have a bigger population pool to work with. But now that Dublin have a team that might, just might, become an exceptional and dominant team the problem is suddenly Dublin's size....

Seriously, change the record!

nail on the head.

iDave

Since the Emergency Dublin haven't really made use of the population advantage. In that period how many have they won? Less than 10 I would think. Dublins Leinster dominance coincided with a dramatic drop off in performance levels in Meath and with no other county having any tradition apart from maybe Offaly of putting it up to them on a regular basis the inevitable has happened.
The DCB has put in a lot of excellent work in improving standards in the capital and are rightly reaping the reward in both codes. They are the example to follow, not something to be destroyed.
Even Mayo showed on Sunday that their personal terrace doesn't have to be that way if county boards don't hand allocations to them.
I expect this generation to win 2 or 3 more AIs and continue to control Leinster. A new force is never far from rising. Every decade since the 80s has seen counties get their act together (briefly) and produce AI winning teams. Meath, Cork, Donegal, Derry, Galway, Armagh. Tyrone. Kerry haven't gone anywhere btw.

Rightwing

This is as much an economic argument as a sport one. Govt policy is warped, most of the IDA jobs are going to the Dublin region, and there's emigration for rural ireland.

robbiezero

Would see no reason to split them up. No offence to Dublin, but I think the Tyrone,Kerry sides of the last decade were better teams. Dublin may win a good few All-Irelands in the next few years, but if so that will have a lot to do with the state of other teams as much as Dublin being too strong.

Kerry need to rebuild, Tyrone too. Will we see the Donegal of 2012 again, Will a new manager get a tune out of Cork, likewise Kildare, how will Mayo come back from their shattering defeats. Will any of the sleeping giants awaken (teams with All-Irelands in last ~20 years) - Galway, Meath, Down, Derry.

I would much rather see the All-Ireland series disassociated from the provincial series. This is where the real unfairness lies. Also having only ~16 teams in the All-Ireland series. Because we have had some great games in the champo from q-final on we forget how awful the earlier rounds of the championship were and the hidings dished out. One decent game in Munster championship, Connaught championship awful. Decent Ulster championship, 1 decent game in the Leinster championship and the world of hammerings.

freddiek

in the short-term, Leinster needs emergency attention. The competition is now a dead duck, as Dublin are unbeatable within Leinster. Not only are they far superior in panel strength compared to their smaller neighbours, but they get to play 100% of their Leinster fixtures at home...

The GAA should introduce an element of fairness to Leinster, if they could only avert their gazes from the cash register for a brief moment

A number of measures could be taken:

(i) scrap the competition altogether and have a National open draw
(ii) all Dublin fixtures to be played Outside Dublin
(iii) take Dublin out of the Leinster Championship

Dots1982

Gryire wrote: »

This great Dublin team won the semi-final by a point and the final by a point. With the new black card rules next year they will need at least 15 sub's to replace the 15 who will be black carded in the first half.

What semi final were you watching?