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Rent allowance not accepted

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    #32
    The Gibzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭The Gibzilla


    Does anyone know what the outcome could possibly be in this situation:

    Someone rents a property which states Rent Allowance Not Accepted. They are working and paying their rent on time, keeping the property in good condition for 6 months or so, but they then lose their job.
    Can the landlord refuse to accept rent allowance?
    Something similar happened to me a few years ago but luckily enough my landlord at the time was understanding and had no problems with RA.


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    #33
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    The Gibzilla wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the outcome could possibly be in this situation:

    Someone rents a property which states Rent Allowance Not Accepted. They are working and paying their rent on time, keeping the property in good condition for 6 months or so, but they then lose their job.
    Can the landlord refuse to accept rent allowance?
    Something similar happened to me a few years ago but luckily enough my landlord at the time was understanding and had no problems with RA.


    Actually something I wonder about sometimes. I'm in full time employment but I worry that if I did lose my job I wouldnt get RA as the property is not registered. I asked before for information that was required for rent relief (not knowing it had been phased out) and LL refused to give RSI number. Fair enough as it turned out we couldn't get the relief anyway, and I'm not going to be a snitch for the sake of it, but I remember thinking hmmm wonder what would happen if I ever (God forbid) need RA?


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    #34
    The Gibzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭The Gibzilla


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Actually something I wonder about sometimes. I'm in full time employment but I worry that if I did lose my job I wouldnt get RA as the property is not registered. I asked before for information that was required for rent relief (not knowing it had been phased out) and LL refused to give RSI number. Fair enough as it turned out we couldn't get the relief anyway, and I'm not going to be a snitch for the sake of it, but I remember thinking hmmm wonder what would happen if I ever (God forbid) need RA?

    When it happened myself it was very worrying, though as I said the landlord was nice and I'd been dealing with him from the start so there was no agency involved. Just wondering what would happen if I did find myself out of work again. I think I may have been very fortunate that it worked out last time.


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    #35
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Actually something I wonder about sometimes. I'm in full time employment but I worry that if I did lose my job I wouldnt get RA as the property is not registered. I asked before for information that was required for rent relief (not knowing it had been phased out) and LL refused to give RSI number. Fair enough as it turned out we couldn't get the relief anyway, and I'm not going to be a snitch for the sake of it, but I remember thinking hmmm wonder what would happen if I ever (God forbid) need RA?

    Oddly enough, in order for your landlord to evict you he needs to go to the PRTB. And since he hasn't bothered to register you, he would be immediately looking at fines and a very low chance of actually winning anything(since the PRTB don't take kindly to that type of landlord).

    Not registering effects the landlord far more then the tenant.


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    #36
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Actually something I wonder about sometimes. I'm in full time employment but I worry that if I did lose my job I wouldnt get RA as the property is not registered. I asked before for information that was required for rent relief (not knowing it had been phased out) and LL refused to give RSI number. Fair enough as it turned out we couldn't get the relief anyway, and I'm not going to be a snitch for the sake of it, but I remember thinking hmmm wonder what would happen if I ever (God forbid) need RA?
    How do you know it's not (PRTB?) registered?


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    #37
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    murphaph wrote: »
    How do you know it's not (PRTB?) registered?

    You get a mail to the address notifying you of the registration.

    I was just up on the PRTB site and saw a nice judgement for 15k against somebody for rent arrears and theft of furniture from a home.

    If that was a person on RA and the dole, you would never see that money again.
    If it was a working professional, then the money would be recoverable.

    As a business loss, that would take out plenty of small company's. I feel sorry for that landlord.


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    #38
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    murphaph wrote: »
    How do you know it's not (PRTB?) registered?

    You can check. PRTB have a published register. Notwithstanding the fact that the LL got a bit nervy when the question of RSI number and anything revenue-related came up.


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    #39
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    You can check.
    How did you check?


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    #40
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    You get a mail to the address notifying you of the registration.
    I'd say that's the exception rather than the rule tbh. The PRTB often never acknowledge receipt of the registration, but the cheque is always cashed!


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    #41
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    murphaph wrote: »
    How did you check?

    http://www.prtb.ie/tenants/is-my-tenancy-registered-


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    #42
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    http://www.prtb.ie/tenants/is-my-tenancy-registered-
    Ah, the notoriously unreliable website you mean?

    I had a tenancy need renewing (after 4 years you have to renew and pay those gangsters another €90 for nothing) and I realised when searching the database that my property was not there. I had to contact them about it and they were able to tell me over the phone that the property was registered. Wtf? I accept a certain processing time before a tenancy is visible online, but 4 years? They are incompetent.


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    #43
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,672 ✭✭✭whippet


    none of my registrations with the PRTB were ever listed on their site; despite the monies being paid and verbal confirmation over the phone that they were registered.


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    #44
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    murphaph wrote: »
    Ah, the notoriously unreliable website you mean?

    I had a tenancy need renewing (after 4 years you have to renew and pay those gangsters another €90 for nothing) and I realised when searching the database that my property was not there. I had to contact them about it and they were able to tell me over the phone that the property was registered. Wtf? I accept a certain processing time before a tenancy is visible online, but 4 years? They are incompetent.

    Like I said, I'm not interested in ratting someone out for the sake of it. Then again if it turns out we do need to take action if INIS decide they want to check out the validity of our lease to process a visa app then I wll have no problem reporting it - and I guess that's one sure fire way of finding out quickly if its registered.


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    #45
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,745 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    The Gibzilla wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the outcome could possibly be in this situation:

    Someone rents a property which states Rent Allowance Not Accepted. They are working and paying their rent on time, keeping the property in good condition for 6 months or so, but they then lose their job.
    Can the landlord refuse to accept rent allowance?.

    I'm pretty sure that they can refuse to complete the paperwork required for you to get RA.

    Now if you have a good relatonship with them, then tney are unlikely to do this - they would probably rather keep you than lose you.

    However there may be a small problem is that the rent you are paying will almost certainly be over the RA cap. So you may also be asking them to either accept a lower rent or to commit / be party to fraud (in which you continue to pay the current amount, while telling Welfare that the rent is actually right on the cap amount).

    If you fail to pay the rent, they can start proceedings to get your removed.

    I'm not sure what might happen if you pay a partial amount of rent each week (eg what you can afford out of the dole) - this may or may not make proceedings more difficult. (It does back where I come from, not sure about here.)


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    #46
    power pants
    Registered Users Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭power pants


    Elephant Man from china wrote: »
    This won't be popular but couldn't agree more. No way I'm renting my extremely valuable asset to someone who can't be bothered to work.

    Simple solution to this one OP, it involves getting a job!

    /not trolling


    seems like a troll to me :rolleyes:


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    #47
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    murphaph wrote: »
    I'd say that's the exception rather than the rule tbh. The PRTB often never acknowledge receipt of the registration, but the cheque is always cashed!

    Four tenancies, four letters. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule.


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    #48
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    Before I post what I post I wanted to assure You I am a tenant at this moment, and was a tennant for last few years. The last thing I would do as a landlord was to let the house / apartment to someone who isn't working. I've seen a lot of houses and apartments (flats would suit better in these cases) where bills were never paid on time, heating was occasional in the winter, and rent (again) was never paid on time. Having a tenant who does nothing for living isn't exactly what most landlords want. Because even if the rent is paid, this doesn't change the fact that some will struggle to keep the house in good shape, not to mention "some" will spend 100% of their time in the property - wear and tear x2!. Decent families are being punished for the sins of few, but you can't blame landlords for this. I know of few places in Naas where the asking price for monthly rent was raised only to get rid of people on rent allowance - this was admitted by an agent, and the rent was actually lower than the one in the ad. Don't blame the landlords people, blame the people who ruined it for everyone else.


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    #49
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    wonski wrote: »
    Before I post what I post I wanted to assure You I am a tenant at this moment, and was a tennant for last few years. The last thing I would do as a landlord was to let the house / apartment to someone who isn't working. I've seen a lot of houses and apartments (flats would suit better in these cases) where bills were never paid on time, heating was occasional in the winter, and rent (again) was never paid on time. Having a tenant who does nothing for living isn't exactly what most landlords want. Because even if the rent is paid, this doesn't change the fact that some will struggle to keep the house in good shape, not to mention "some" will spend 100% of their time in the property - wear and tear x2!. Decent families are being punished for the sins of few, but you can't blame landlords for this. I know of few places in Naas where the asking price for monthly rent was raised only to get rid of people on rent allowance - this was admitted by an agent, and the rent was actually lower than the one in the ad. Don't blame the landlords people, blame the people who ruined it for everyone else.

    When I was on Rent Allowance, I was out of the house from 8AM until 6PM in college getting an Honors Degree in Applied Bioscience. Hardly doing nothing for a living :rolleyes: Also hardly in the house all the time. In fact, you could say I was there less than the average working individual since I often went to visit my mother at the weekend.

    Don't blame the people who ruined it for everyone else. Blame it on the naive people tarring us all with the same brush and being silly enough to think that a working individual isn't capable of wrecking their house or being late with bills and rent.


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    #50
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    When I was on Rent Allowance, I was out of the house from 8AM until 6PM in college getting an Honors Degree in Applied Bioscience. Hardly doing nothing for a living :rolleyes: Also hardly in the house all the time. In fact, you could say I was there less than the average working individual since I often went to visit my mother at the weekend.

    Don't blame the people who ruined it for everyone else. Blame it on the naive people tarring us all with the same brush and being silly enough to think that a working individual isn't capable of wrecking their house or being late with bills and rent.

    Getting paid in arrears is enough reason alone for me to not accept RA. And that the RA might be cut . I feel for RA people out there that struggle to find places....it is the system's fault, not theirs. But LLs, especially those like me who are reluctant LLs having moved with the job (not that I am moaning....I always planned to keep the flat forever no matter what) cannot afford to risk having a shortfall between rent and mortgage any larger than it already is.

    That's just the way it is, irrespective of the quality of the RA tenant


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    #51
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    When I was on Rent Allowance, I was out of the house from 8AM until 6PM in college getting an Honors Degree in Applied Bioscience. Hardly doing nothing for a living :rolleyes: Also hardly in the house all the time. In fact, you could say I was there less than the average working individual since I often went to visit my mother at the weekend.

    Don't blame the people who ruined it for everyone else. Blame it on the naive people tarring us all with the same brush and being silly enough to think that a working individual isn't capable of wrecking their house or being late with bills and rent.

    Very similar story here. I had no problems renting. Once the landlord heard I was a student the rent allowance wasn't a problem.


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    #52
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    Getting paid in arrears is enough reason alone for me to not accept RA. And that the RA might be cut . I feel for RA people out there that struggle to find places....it is the system's fault, not theirs. But LLs, especially those like me who are reluctant LLs having moved with the job (not that I am moaning....I always planned to keep the flat forever no matter what) cannot afford to risk having a shortfall between rent and mortgage any larger than it already is.

    That's just the way it is, irrespective of the quality of the RA tenant

    As I said already, I paid in advance with my rent. Out of my own BTEA every week in advance until I got my RA backdate, when I paid a month in advance and then continued to do so. I never once treated my tenancy in arrears, and if something happened that I did not get my supplement, I simply used my Social Welfare payment. I have come across plenty of people in full-time employment that have had their hours cut, their salary reviewed, or lost their job entirely. In this economy a job is no more reliable than a social welfare supplement.


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    #53
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    As I said already, I paid in advance with my rent. Out of my own BTEA every week in advance until I got my RA backdate.

    Very very few RA tenants willing to do this. I have no problem taking RA as long as they pay their first month themselves. Separates wheat from the chaf.


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    #54
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Very very few RA tenants willing to do this. I have no problem taking RA as long as they pay their first month themselves. Separates wheat from the chaf.

    To be honest, I would never have dreamed of asking a stranger to take my word I would pay them rent eventually. I assumed, and was informed likewise by my CWO, that I was expected to cover costs of the rent until my claim had been approved.


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    #55
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    To be honest, I would never have dreamed of asking a stranger to take my word I would pay them rent eventually. I assumed, and was informed likewise by my CWO, that I was expected to cover costs of the rent until my claim had been approved.

    Well now you know one of the main reasons RA tenants find it impossible to get places. They expect the LL to wait weeks and weeks to get paid. I'd say >10% of RA tenants are like yourself.


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    #56
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Well now you know one of the main reasons RA tenants find it impossible to get places. They expect the LL to wait weeks and weeks to get paid. I'd say >10% of RA tenants are like yourself.

    I think it depends. It's sort of like all these situations - you never really hear the good reports, do you? It's just a stream of people coming here and State Benefits complaining about terrible RA tenants. I seriously doubt we would have a landlord come in to make a thread saying he/she wanted everyone to know how responsible and amicable their new RA tenant was.
    The real reason that RA tenants are struggling to find suitable homes is similar to why SW recipients find it hard to get student loans from banks. People seem to attach some sort of significantly-unreliable stigma to payments made to individuals from the government.

    I tried to apply for a loan for my fees in first year based on my €188 per week income from SW. They refused me as that was not as reliable as the €320 per month I would have gotten from a VEC Grant. Considering people are waiting until December and sometimes later to see a grant payment, and I get my BTEA every single week (never mind the obvious fact that I was getting nearly three times the monthly adjacent grant rate), I'd say they made a very silly mistake. Especially with my two previous student loans that were paid back early as reference for them.

    The prejudice is the problem here.


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    #57
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Mickey Dazzler has just earned himself a 1 week ban from this forum for his abusive comments about Rent Allowance Recipients.

    I don't care what your personal experiences of social welfare recipient is- you will remain civil in this forum- or you will have your right to post in this forum withdrawn. Let this be a warning to everyone.

    If you haven't already done so- please read the forum's charter and abide by it. I'm not handing out any further warnings here- this is it.


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    #58
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    I've just deleted 18 posts and have another 6 to edit here.
    I'm appalled with people's expectations that this is a free-for-all.
    Please read the charter at the root of this forum folk- and abide by it.
    If you disagree with what someone else posts- refute it factually- without attacking the poster, or anyone else. Snide snobby comments- being bandied about as fact- belittle both the poster and anyone who deigns to respond to them. If people are incapable of debating in a reasoned manner- perhaps I should shut any threads such as this one- forthwith.


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    #59
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    ShaShaBear wrote: »
    When I was on Rent Allowance, I was out of the house from 8AM until 6PM in college getting an Honors Degree in Applied Bioscience. Hardly doing nothing for a living :rolleyes: Also hardly in the house all the time. In fact, you could say I was there less than the average working individual since I often went to visit my mother at the weekend.

    Don't blame the people who ruined it for everyone else. Blame it on the naive people tarring us all with the same brush and being silly enough to think that a working individual isn't capable of wrecking their house or being late with bills and rent.

    How were you in receipt of RA while attending college. I was of the belief that there was no social welfare allowed while attending any school besides FAS?


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    #60
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,317 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    How were you in receipt of RA while attending college. I was of the belief that there was no social welfare allowed while attending any school besides FAS?

    You can claim social welfare for under graduate courses if you are unemployed for a certain period. Presumably RA comes with that. So your belief is incorrect on this issue:)


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    #61
    ShaShaBear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    How were you in receipt of RA while attending college. I was of the belief that there was no social welfare allowed while attending any school besides FAS?

    As Pawwed said, I was entitled to Back to Education Allowance (essentially retaining my social welfare payment and getting it paid into my bank and being exempt from signing-on) in order to fund my degree studies, and they were also willing to pay me some RA as well.


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