Anti-social behavior at closing time

usersame

Came back to cork for the weekend, first time home in about 6 months, couldn't get over the amount of scraps I saw Friday and Saturday night. Came out of the crane and saw two half respectable lads in their twenties flaking the life out of each other, don't know how it started etc. Then on Friday walking out of the pav at about 2am about 15 lads and girls in tracksuits laying into each other. Literally 5 minutes later as we were walking out past the courthouse there was a very brutal fight between a group of lads which finished with a one man get his head stamped on. No Gardaí to be seen.

Closing the pubs/clubs at 2am is lunacy, having later closing times really would help I think and if the cops could do a bit more preemptive policing and move people along instead of allowing bottle necks of trouble to form outside certain ares.

Great weekend aside from this petty thuggery.

SpaceTime

Well, the local powers that be seem to think that the solution is to keep making the closing times earlier and earlier.

If they just let pubs / venues close when they wanted to it would avoid dumping thousands of people onto the streets at the height of their drunkness and often in bad form.

The whole problem is the mass exodus due to the licensing hours and I don't understand why our governments have been so backwards about it.

The other aspect of it is that our crazy hours are also limiting tourism potential and the development of a serious club scene.

Instead we've got mayhem on the streets every busy night in most of our towns and cities.

If you were seriously into clubs, you'd be off your head to go to Dublin, Cork or Galway for a weekend. You'd be off to London, Manchester, Paris, Amsterdam, Barcelona or anywhere else you could think of.

It's like the powers that be just frown on night life and think it needs to be reigned in.

usersame

SpaceTime wrote: »

Well, the local powers that be seem to think that the solution is to keep making the closing times earlier and earlier.

If they just let pubs / venues close when they wanted to it would avoid dumping thousands of people onto the streets at the height of their drunkness and often in bad form.

The whole problem is the mass exodus due to the licensing hours and I don't understand why our governments have been so backwards about it.

The other aspect of it is that our crazy hours are also limiting tourism potential and the development of a serious club scene.

Instead we've got mayhem on the streets every busy night in most of our towns and cities.

If you were seriously into clubs, you'd be off your head to go to Dublin, Cork or Galway for a weekend. You'd be off to London, Manchester, Paris, Amsterdam, Barcelona or anywhere else you could think of.

It's like the powers that be just frown on night life and think it needs to be reigned in.

totally agree, however clubs in Dublin close at about 4am and some stay open until 6am! Limerick from my experience there is about 2.30am, Galway I think goes a little bit later too. It's infuriating to see the state of Cork at 2am

SpaceTime

Yeah, it's completely destroying Cork's potential as a decent 'weekend destination' for tourism (local and international) and it's also making the city centre look unnecessarily rough because of the drunk yobs spilling out at the same time.

Is it the city council or who is setting these closing hours?

Why are they different in Dublin and Cork?

mikeym

SpaceTime wrote: »

Yeah, it's completely destroying Cork's potential as a decent 'weekend destination' for tourism (local and international) and it's also making the city centre look unnecessarily rough because of the drunk yobs spilling out at the same time.

Is it the city council or who is setting these closing hours?

Why are they different in Dublin and Cork?

Its up to the district court.

SpaceTime

That seems a bit daft. It should be up to an elected council of some sort, not to an unelected judge.

gifted

SpaceTime wrote: »

Well, the local powers that be seem to think that the solution is to keep making the closing times earlier and earlier.

If they just let pubs / venues close when they wanted to it would avoid dumping thousands of people onto the streets at the height of their drunkness and often in bad form.

The whole problem is the mass exodus due to the licensing hours and I don't understand why our governments have been so backwards about it.

The other aspect of it is that our crazy hours are also limiting tourism potential and the development of a serious club scene.

Instead we've got mayhem on the streets every busy night in most of our towns and cities.

If you were seriously into clubs, you'd be off your head to go to Dublin, Cork or Galway for a weekend. You'd be off to London, Manchester, Paris, Amsterdam, Barcelona or anywhere else you could think of.

It's like the powers that be just frown on night life and think it needs to be reigned in.

Because none of these places have trouble either?...

butbut

gifted wrote: »

Because none of these places have trouble either?...

Of course they have trouble, but to be fair it is only ever a minority of individuals that come out of a venue and engage in anti social behaviour, however when every venue closes at the same time that still amounts to all trouble makers on the street at the same time making it a lot harder to police.

sensormatic

Came back to cork for the weekend, first time home in about 6 months, couldn't get over the amount of scraps I saw Friday and Saturday night.

where have you been for the last 20 years,,this happens every weekend it would not be a good weekend with it ffs

Flesh Gorden

It was freshers week last week which always brings a big influx of 18yr olds unable to handle themselves,
A lot of whom may never have been out in a city before.

At least this year the Guinness thing didn't clash with freshers week; last year was mentality.

Milly33

This is why we gave up heading into town it is so rough. I don't want to see that crap after coming out of a pub. It had defiantly got worse over the last few years. I don't think closing the pubs later or earlier would do any good think tis just the people. No one respects anything anymore...Guards don't seem to be able to or do much about it, I do appreciate them but whats the point in standing there being an onlooker

GavRedKing

The main problem is the blanket 2am and your out, it forces thousands onto the streets and into cab bases, fast food outlets and will lead to patches of violence all over.

If we took a leaf out of Dublins books it would be better, clubs/bar could adjust their closing times accordingly too depending on how many peoepl go through the doors.

It wont be changed though, not anytime soon at least.

ofcork

The nightclubs should have later closing times than the bars which get their licence to stay open as a public dancing licence even though there would be no specific area for dancing I believe,in saying that was in town sat night and didn't see any aggro.

lisasimpson

was in town both nights didn't notice much Friday night but Saturday wasn't nice in town at all. it didn't seem the usual crowd at all, walking from south mall to grand parade was full of v young people hammered kindof reminded me of a paddys day. Ive never experienced town that young before, it put us all off of going anywhere after the pub. there wasn't a nice vibe in there at all even at midnight the ambulances and garda cars seemed v busy a there seemed to be a lot of them around.we were wondering was there something on

Faith

lisasimpson wrote: »

was in town both nights didn't notice much Friday night but Saturday wasn't nice in town at all. it didn't seem the usual crowd at all, walking from south mall to grand parade was full of v young people hammered kindof reminded me of a paddys day. Ive never experienced town that young before, it put us all off of going anywhere after the pub. there wasn't a nice vibe in there at all even at midnight the ambulances and garda cars seemed v busy a there seemed to be a lot of them around.we were wondering was there something on

Fresher's week.

nuts86

Freshers week finished on Thursday

minidazzler

Milly33 wrote: »

This is why we gave up heading into town it is so rough. I don't want to see that crap after coming out of a pub. It had defiantly got worse over the last few years. I don't think closing the pubs later or earlier would do any good think tis just the people. No one respects anything anymore...Guards don't seem to be able to or do much about it, I do appreciate them but whats the point in standing there being an onlooker

It's not gotten worse in the last few years. It's actually gotten better. But as you get older you pay more attention because you're likely not as sh1tfaced.

And having pubs close at different times would definitely make a huge difference. Any city that operates on a tiered closure system has less hassle and is easier to poilice at night. You close 20 bars at one time and you have X thousand people on the streets at once. You close 2-3 bars at a time and allow some to stay open as long as they wish then you get less people on the streets at the same time, all looking for competing for the same cabs and food.

wallycharlo

minidazzler wrote: »

It's not gotten worse in the last few years. It's actually gotten better...

I'm also wondering about that. It's the best part of 20 years since I lived in Cork, but I recall seeing plenty of scraps around town at weekends. So not sure if it's anything new really?

Milly33

Jes I don't know.. I wasn't too mad on the old booze or on nights out when I was younger and I didn't notice as many fights or just general roughness around the place. people seem to have got a lot unfriendlier. Even went in Shopping to town two days in a row recently and thought Christ does anyone smile or say hello anymore..

wallycharlo

It's been a while since I lived there as I said, but you would be practically guaranteed to see a scrap around the fountain / chipper areas on Grand Parade on most weekend nights.

I would tend to agree though that the general level of unfriendliness is on the up though.

mathepac

GavRedKing wrote: »

The main problem is the blanket 2am and your out, it forces thousands onto the streets and into cab bases, fast food outlets and will lead to patches of violence all over. ...

Rubbish. Complete and utter tosh. The problem is public drunkenness and the yob culture that naturally follows. The solution? There are many, including enforcing existing laws.

gimmick

mathepac wrote: »

Rubbish. Complete and utter tosh. The problem is public drunkenness and the yob culture that naturally follows. The solution? There are many, including enforcing existing laws.

It is neither rubbish nor tosh.

Push that many people out together causes flash points. If people were drifting out onto the streets at their own pace, there would be less hassle on the street after as there would be less queues and therefore less scope to skip queues etc.

Obviously it is not the perfect solution, but it would help.

gobnaitolunacy

I find weekday nights and Friday nights to be fine, Sat nights, the place turns into Scumbag Central.

I get out just before they start herding folks to the door, grab a quick bite before places get mobbed and get the fcuk out of the place.
Idiots are gonna idiot.

who_me

You want to get to the real epicentre of the early-morning-fights, go to a fast food joint at 2-3am. Hillbillys on the Grand Parade can be carnage some times, was in Hoggy's one night and two girls tried to smash a bin over some guys head.

I'm not certain that later opening hours would fix it all, people would just likely adjust their hours and you'd have everyone drunk, later. "24 hour" opening hours might, but they wouldn't be economically viable here anyway.

Certainly the nights with younger crowds out (I was one, once...) tend to be a lot messier.

mathepac

gimmick wrote: »

It is neither rubbish nor tosh.

Push that many people out together causes flash points. If people were drifting out onto the streets at their own pace, there would be less hassle on the street after as there would be less queues and therefore less scope to skip queues etc.

Obviously it is not the perfect solution, but it would help.

It is both rubbish and tosh to deny that the single greatest cause of the problems on the streets at week-ends, at taxi-ranks, take-aways, in licensed premises and in hospital A&Es is drunkenness. The majority of the drunken, violent and abusive idiots who piss, puke, fall and fight their way home at the week-ends see this as their God-given right, their entitlement as citizens of the State. They display nothing but contempt for themselves and for those of us who choose not to share their sorry state.

gimmick

Ok. Rubbish and tosh it is.

Good day.

minidazzler

mathepac wrote: »

It is both rubbish and tosh to deny that the single greatest cause of the problems on the streets at week-ends, at taxi-ranks, take-aways, in licensed premises and in hospital A&Es is drunkenness. The majority of the drunken, violent and abusive idiots who piss, puke, fall and fight their way home at the week-ends see this as their God-given right, their entitlement as citizens of the State. They display nothing but contempt for themselves and for those of us who choose not to share their sorry state.

You're still wrong thinking just drunkeness is the cause. The cause is putting thousands of drunken people in competition for the same stuff. You are simply wrong.

I've seen some of the most fun and amazing things at closing time as well as some pretty sh1t things. Just last week, I was finished work and going to Fast Als, saw a group of 200+ people outside Vodafone on Winthrop street all having a sing song.

The world, especially the first world isn't actually getting more violent as people seem to be wanting. It's getting less violent, you're just looking through rose tinted glasses.

And just because you don't drink doesn't mean you've some great insight into the root cause. Get over yourself mat.

mathepac

minidazzler wrote: »

You're still wrong .... You are simply wrong.
...
you're just looking through rose tinted glasses.

And just because you don't drink doesn't mean you've some great insight into the root cause. Get over yourself mat.

When you've finished making personal comments about me, do you have anything insightful to add to the thread topic? The way these threads work is that posters offer comments on the thread topic, not on other posters.

the beer revolu

Well Mat, you are right that closing time isn't the root cause of anti social behavior but neither is drunkenness. It is, in fact, people that are the cause - anti social people. Anti social people who choose to drink to excess and engage in an anti social activities are the root cause.
However, knowing this does little to help the situation.

So, we have a society where people choose to drink to excess. Short of banning alcohol (which historically has proved counter productive) we need to manage the situation. To say that our current licencing laws regarding closing time don't clearly exacerbate the situation is just wrong - tosh, if you will.
It is such a no-brainer I'm amazed that we are still even discussing it.

mathepac

the beer revolu wrote: »

... you are right that closing time isn't the root cause of anti social behavior but neither is drunkenness. ...

So you contend that if all those people were in bars and nightclubs drinking water, tea, coffee or orange juice all night, the same behaviours would follow as if they were released blind drunk onto the streets? All the puking, pissing, fighting, assaults, hospital admissions, arrests, etc would happen. I'd like to see a modicum, a smidgen, even an iota of evidence in support of your view.

SeaDaily

usersame wrote: »

totally agree, however clubs in Dublin close at about 4am and some stay open until 6am!

Well thats not true.

the beer revolu

mathepac wrote: »

So you contend that if all those people were in bars and nightclubs drinking water, tea, coffee or orange juice all night, the same behaviours would follow as if they were released blind drunk onto the streets? All the puking, pissing, fighting, assaults, hospital admissions, arrests, etc would happen. I'd like to see a modicum, a smidgen, even an iota of evidence in support of your view.

I contend that what you suggest will never happen, so what's the point in arguing about it!
What I said was that society had a situation to manage - people to manage and that that situation is very poorly managed at the moment.
Most here contend that changing licencing hours might help. You rudely disagree. What do you suggest should be done - in the real world with current resources?

mathepac

the beer revolu wrote: »

... You rudely disagree. What do you suggest should be done - in the real world with current resources?

mathepac wrote: »

... The solution? There are many, including enforcing existing laws.

There you go. I posted this a while ago. The laws concerned have to do with age-checking by servers, public drunkenness, and serving alcohol to patrons who are already drunk.

The HSEs have poured billions into alcohol education programmes, consisting mainly of glossy brochures, TV ads and posters and the problems associated with public drunkenness and violence are now worse in certain areas than before they started the programmes. Stop spending money stupidly, use it on enforcement and start fining people or locking them up.

the beer revolu

mathepac wrote: »

There you go. I posted this a while ago. The laws concerned have to do with age-checking by servers, public drunkenness, and serving alcohol to patrons who are already drunk.

The HSEs have poured billions into alcohol education programmes, consisting mainly of glossy brochures, TV ads and posters and the problems associated with public drunkenness and violence are now worse in certain areas than before they started the programmes. Stop spending money stupidly, use it on enforcement and start fining people or locking them up.

OK so you've moved on from your incredibly vague

The solution? There are many, including enforcing existing laws.

.
While a problem which should not exist, I don't believe that underage drinking is a major contributory factor to the closing time mayhem we see in many towns and cities and I think age checking is pretty widely enforced in bars and clubs and I've spotted undercover "stings" in operation and premises do get done for underage serving.

Public drunkenness: what do you suggest - double the police force and the court system. No problem, lets do it tomorrow!

I do agree with you regarding serving drunk people but it's not a black or white thing and can be difficult to enforce in a busy bar or club with people drinking in groups. But the trade could do better on this issue, alright.

The fact is, whether you like it or not, in our society as it is, people will get drunk. Some people are arseholes all the time, some people are arseholes when drunk. Some people don't know their limits but I believe people are responsible for what they drink and for what they do when they are drunk.

We manage potentially dangerous situations regarding large numbers of people all the time. Football matches would be a prime example , or concerts. We don't just expect everybody to behave reasonably - we put measures in place to minimise the risk of public disorder/crime/injury/violence. It's called crowd control.
What our society does regarding pub and club closing times makes no sense. If you pour all the socialising people onto the streets at exactly the same time, you create flash points. It's pretty obvious, really.

Yes, people should drink in moderation.

Yes people should be able to behave in a socially acceptable manner while drinking.

Yes, people should be charged and are charged for serving underage people.

Yes, people should be taken to account for anti social behaviour - some are but the resources are not there to effectively tackle the problem.

Yes, servers should be more proactive in not serving drunks and should be held more accountable but not at the cost of removing the responsibility people have for consuming what they consume.

Yes, we need a cultural mind shift in our attitude to drinking. Education is part of this - maybe they haven't gotten it right but I don't believe that awareness programmes should be abandoned.

And, yes, I firmly believe that our archaic licencing laws are a major contributory factor to anti social behaviour on our streets but, obviously, not the only one. No one has suggested that changing the licencing laws will miraculously fix the problem so please law of with your dismissive tone and rudeness.

gimmick

I personally think many pubs are quite proactive in not serving visibly drunk people.

Some people hide it better than other. I, for example, apparently never look or sound drunk unless I am completely and utterly shítfaced which rarely happens. How can barstaff stop me from being served in that regard?

And don't doorstaff in any half decent venue stop people if they feel they are too well on?

Yes, booze is a big contributory factor, but it is also a fact that by giving people a bed time and by turfing them all out onto the streets, into the same queues all round the City is obviously going to create issues. If this cannot be seen as common sense, there is no point in continuing the discussion.

wallycharlo

gimmick wrote: »

...Yes, booze is a big contributory factor, but it is also a fact that by giving people a bed time and by turfing them all out onto the streets, into the same queues all round the City is obviously going to create issues...

The staggered exit is clearly a good idea, but how practically could it be implemented?

i.e. if the law is changed to allow bars etc to stay open later, surely all of the larger establishments are going to apply for such a licence, which will just result in the same problem?

You could imagine doing it in such a way that only certain pubs etc get the extended licence, but how is this going to work practically, e.g. within competition laws etc?

gimmick

No, if for example the license was extended to 4am - most of us are conditioned to leave at 2pmish. So, 30% leave at 2am, another 20% are gone by 3am and so on. By 4am all of these people are gone home and those who leave at closing time will be a percentage of what hit the streets at 2am.

Its basically let us decide when our bedtime is, not have it forced upon us.

wallycharlo

In my opinion the vast majority of those who are causing the problem are those who are being evicted because of an enforced closing time; e.g. knocking back shots etc close to last call and ending up absolutely wasted, etc.

Certainly the idea that a 04:00 close would make it more pleasant for those leaving at 02:00 etc, but following the same logic you could also just say that one can anyway head off at 20 mins before close at the moment.

ofcork

Why should a bar have the same closing time as a nightclub,even an hour between them would make a world of difference.I remember about 10 years ago in cork the clubs were given another half hour and it only lasted a few weeks,was in coppers a while back and it was still going at 3.30.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Later pub/club times are definitely a good idea. Why not let some clubs open their doors at 12 and stay open until 4 and have others that open at 10/11 and close before 3 or something. The current situation is at 1:50 AM every Friday and Saturday night you have taxi drivers queued up sitting in their car doing nothing and you have the staff in burger and kebab places twiddling their thumbs doing very little, whereas, an hour later at 2:50 AM you have to wait for a taxi after queuing for a bite to eat for ages . Whatever changes this reality will be an improvement.

I think off licenses closing at 10 is a bit ridiculous. Maybe allowing late bars sell cans might encourage some people to just grab a few tins at say 1 o'clock instead of waiting until closing time and filling up on as much booze as they can get into themselves.
I gonna sound like a total alki but I'm quite guilty of getting as much drink into me as possible in the last hour before closing time because (:eek:) 2 o'clock will be end of drinking time. We now always keep a stash of drink back in the house . Older, wiser yet thicker.

Our licensing hours are fairly in line with the old 9-5 working mindset that still dominates this country, banks don't open on Saturdays, don't get sick on a Sunday as a doctor will be hard to find. I'm saying this because so many people don't work 'normal' hours. Many nights I'm happy to have a few cans after 10 and head out at 12 but some nights why can't I start drinking at midnight and head out at 1 and go to the pub until 3 or 4. Let people go out at times that suit them, what a crazy idea eh.

I would be strongly in favour of drunk tanks, it frees up precious Garda time and keeps petty things out of court and people away from convictions over things like falling asleep in a door way and relatively inconsequential things like this.
A hefty 500 euro fine will be a bigger deterrent to out of order public intoxication more than anything else I can think of.

Thoie

gimmick wrote: »

No, if for example the license was extended to 4am - most of us are conditioned to leave at 2pmish. So, 30% leave at 2am, another 20% are gone by 3am and so on. By 4am all of these people are gone home and those who leave at closing time will be a percentage of what hit the streets at 2am.

Its basically let us decide when our bedtime is, not have it forced upon us.

While that works in some other countries, I'm not sure how well it would work here at the weekends. There is an attitude on a "night out" that you stay until they ask you to leave. While there are always some people who leave earlier (as they do at the moment), I'd guess that the majority would cling on till the last possible moment, just moving the current 2am problem to 4am instead.

A counter argument is that some pubs/clubs could close earlier, but as long as there's money coming in, none will do it voluntarily. Do you currently see pubs calling last orders at 9:30pm because their own closing time is 10pm?

mathepac

the beer revolu wrote: »

OK so you've moved on from your incredibly vague ...

Not in the least bit vague. For most of these situations, there is no need for new measures, just enforce existing laws. It's the same consistent message I've posted multiple times since I joined boards.ie, "Enforce the laws". Anyone who believes they are being enforced is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I notice the auld "proactive" posters are out in force tonight, proving yet again they just don't know the meaning of the word.

the beer revolu

mathepac wrote: »

The solution? There are many, including enforcing existing laws.

If you seriously don't consider that a vague statement, I doubt your comprehension of the word vague. You don't say what laws or how to go about enforcing them. Where will the extra police come from, the extra court time and the extra prison place come from?
You'll just pluck them from the air like your vague statements, will you?

mathepac wrote: »

Not in the least bit vague. For most of these situations, there is no need for new measures, just enforce existing laws. It's the same consistent message I've posted multiple times since I joined boards.ie, "Enforce the laws". Anyone who believes they are being enforced is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I notice the auld "proactive" posters are out in force tonight, proving yet again they just don't know the meaning of the word.

If a server refuses to serve somebody because they fear the consequences of serving them (ie. what might happen AFTER they have been served), they are being proactive.

Nobody here said they believed all laws are properly enforced.

sensormatic

the beer revolu wrote: »

If you seriously don't consider that a vague statement, I doubt your comprehension of the word vague. You don't say what laws or how to go about enforcing them. Where will the extra police come from, the extra court time and the extra prison place come from?
You'll just pluck them from the air like your vague statements, will you?



If a server refuses to serve somebody because they fear the consequences of serving them (ie. what might happen AFTER they have been served), they are being proactive.

Nobody here said they believed all laws are properly enforced.

thats what you say when you know f all about the laws in place,,,,f all

the beer revolu

sensormatic wrote: »

thats what you say when you know f all about the laws in place,,,,f all

Would you care to explain that post?
It makes no sense to me.
Maybe I'm missing something and you could explain it to me.

Edit: Now I see you went on a troll like spree last night, getting two moderator warnings in the process.
What exactly is your motivation for posts like these?

mathepac

the beer revolu wrote: »

If you seriously don't consider that a vague statement, I doubt your comprehension of the word vague. You don't say what laws or how to go about enforcing them. ...

In a thread about "Anti-social behavior [sic] at closing time" I kinda figured that people would know I was referring to liquor licensing laws, public behaviour and public drunkenness laws, assault laws etc and not the Noxiuos Weeds Act 1930. If I have to explain to law enforcement officers how to enforce the laws then we either have unenforceable laws of stupid law enforcers.

the beer revolu wrote: »

... Where will the extra police come from, the extra court time and the extra prison place come from?...

I haven't advocated for anything extra other than enforcement of existing laws.

With regard to liquor licensing laws, all licensees must make application at a special court held annually to renew their licences. Anyone, including the Gardai can lodge an objection to the renewal of a licence. No extra courts or court-time needed.

It's up to Garda management to ensure they have adequate resources in place to police these "Anti-social behavior [sic] at closing time" situations, or as I prefer to call them drunken, un-policed sprees by violent thugs.

Personally I'd prefer big on the spot fines to prison-time, but hey, no-one asked.

the beer revolu wrote: »

... If a server refuses to serve somebody because they fear the consequences of serving them (ie. what might happen AFTER they have been served), they are being proactive...

No, but thanks for making my point for me. If the patron is already intoxicated the server is being reactive, as in reacting to an existing situation, not preventing it by proacting.

the beer revolu wrote: »

... Nobody here said they believed all laws are properly enforced.

Great, so we all agree that law enforcement of existing laws is the solution.

the beer revolu

mathepac wrote: »

In a thread about "Anti-social behavior [sic] at closing time" I kinda figured that people would know I was referring to liquor licensing laws, public behaviour and public drunkenness laws, assault laws etc and not the Noxiuos Weeds Act 1930. If I have to explain to law enforcement officers how to enforce the laws then we either have unenforceable laws of stupid law enforcers.
I haven't advocated for anything extra other than enforcement of existing laws.

With regard to liquor licensing laws, all licensees must make application at a special court held annually to renew their licences. Anyone, including the Gardai can lodge an objection to the renewal of a licence. No extra courts or court-time needed.

It's up to Garda management to ensure they have adequate resources in place to police these "Anti-social behavior [sic] at closing time" situations, or as I prefer to call them drunken, un-policed sprees by violent thugs.

Personally I'd prefer big on the spot fines to prison-time, but hey, no-one asked.
No, but thanks for making my point for me. If the patron is already intoxicated the server is being reactive, as in reacting to an existing situation, not preventing it by proacting.
Great, so we all agree that law enforcement of existing laws is the solution.

Are you seriously suggesting that if the police and courts did their job properly, with current resources, then we would have no drink related antisocial behaviour on our city and town streets at closing time?
Seriously?

If the answer is yes:
Are you sixteen years of age?