App Idea

Dad11

Hi there,

I have an idea for a mobile application + website. I don't have the skills to build the app+ website. However I have strong commercial knowledge and a lot of contacts within the mobile telecoms sector that I could leverage from a Commercial point of view. I am looking to speak with some developers with a view to finding an investor to bring the project forward. I have developer contacts all over the world but I would like to keep to developing project within Ireland if possible. Please reply to this thread first if interest in meeting to have chat etc.

ChRoMe

Dad11 wrote: »

Hi there,

I have an idea for a mobile application + website. I don't have the skills to build the app+ website. However I have strong commercial knowledge and a lot of contacts within the mobile telecoms sector that I could leverage from a Commercial point of view. I am looking to speak with some developers with a view to finding an investor to bring the project forward. I have developer contacts all over the world but I would like to keep to developing project within Ireland if possible. Please reply to this thread first if interest in meeting to have chat etc.

You are going to need to give a lot more detail than that, to get anyone's interest. Do you have a business plan, functional specification or any sort of supporting documentation?

Dad11

Hi there,

I am formulating the functional specification as we speak along with the business plan. I am reluctant to give away too much information. There are issues around Intellectual property and also would be reluctant to give detail on a public forum especially without having a non disclosure agreement in place

Graham

I'd spend less time on worrying about the IP and more time on actually having a product/business.

Number of times I've come across a developer who's stolen someones idea, 0. Believe it or not most developers are a) too busy working with/for paying clients b) actually have their own ideas for products they'd like to work on.

You're going to find it difficult enough to find developers even willing to entertain you with an idea/equity proposal before you start putting NDA's in the way. What if you approach me with an NDA and I sign it then discover it's similar to an idea I had 3 years ago? What if a week after I sign your NDA I get a real paying customer with a similar idea?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your idea is bad, obviously I don't know what it is. I'm not saying you'll never get a developer to sign an NDA, you might. I'm not saying you won't get a developer to give up weeks/months of well paid work in return for a potential percentage of an idea that someone with no track record in the industry has, you might.

Best of luck.

ChRoMe

Dad11 wrote: »

Hi there,

I am formulating the functional specification as we speak along with the business plan. I am reluctant to give away too much information. There are issues around Intellectual property and also would be reluctant to give detail on a public forum especially without having a non disclosure agreement in place

People like you are a common occurrence on these forums, simply put the idea is worthless its the execution that is valuable.

Not to mention that an NDA isin't worth the paper its written on.

Dad11

Graham are you a developer ?

percy212

NDA's and specs are great, but if you can get one customer to sign up to your idea, you know you should build. Call your contacts and tell them how you can save them money/enhance something with your app and if they want it, (and you could sign the first few at a discount) you have a winner. Everything else will fall into place after that.

Dad11

Are you a developer? When you say "People like you” What exactly do you mean by that? I am a name on a screen a username. You don’t know me from Adam and you think you have a right to label me like that? Maybe I should say there are a lot of people like you on these forums as well. As I said I have the commercial acumen and the business sense to ensure the execution of the idea will be a success.

ChRoMe wrote: »

People like you are a common occurrence on these forums, simply put the idea is worthless its the execution that is valuable.

Not to mention that an NDA isin't worth the paper its written on.

Dad11

Good idea. Percy. That is part of the plan

percy212 wrote: »

NDA's and specs are great, but if you can get one customer to sign up to your idea, you know you should build. Call your contacts and tell them how you can save them money/enhance something with your app and if they want it, (and you could sign the first few at a discount) you have a winner. Everything else will fall into place after that.

ChRoMe

Dad11 wrote: »

Are you a developer? When you say "People like you” What exactly do you mean by that? I am a name on a screen a username. You don’t know me from Adam and you think you have a right to label me like that? Maybe I should say there are a lot of people like you on these forums as well. As I said I have the commercial acumen and the business sense to ensure the execution of the idea will be a success.

"Ideas guys" who come on to development forums, they don't state a budget, have no supporting documentation and won't talk about the idea thus immediately halting any valuable discourse on the subject.

Thats what I mean when I say "people like you".

Yes, I am a developer (who is actually curious about working with you), however for the points mentioned it above you are making it practically impossible

The Corinthian

Dad11 wrote: »

Are you a developer? When you say "People like you” What exactly do you mean by that? I am a name on a screen a username. You don’t know me from Adam and you think you have a right to label me like that? Maybe I should say there are a lot of people like you on these forums as well. As I said I have the commercial acumen and the business sense to ensure the execution of the idea will be a success.

Developers will get approached directly a few times a year with people with an 'idea'. On these boards, especially this one, someone will post that they have an 'idea' they want developed at least once a month - read through this forum if you don't believe me.

Presently you have an idea that you do not want to discuss in detail to protect the IP at present. Fair enough.

Thing is, presently that is all you have. You have no functionality specification, no business plan. No offer of payment. Nothing. Given you come from a commercial background and you're seeking the services of someone else's skills, you should understand that you're not coming to the table with much.

Ultimately, the onus is on you to sell the idea to any potential developer (be it a supplier, future employee or potential partner). There is a finite number of developers willing to spare the free time and a vastly larger number of people with 'ideas', most of which never get beyond a few scribbles on the laptop and a few pub conversations. Again, your commercial experience should be reminding you of the law of supply and demand at this point.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to go back and consider how best your idea would attract investment - and by investment, it's not just equity bought with VC, but also with sweat, and then pitch it again here and elsewhere. Getting upset with people here because they've seen 'ideas' people tire-kicking on fora like this, isn't going to get you anywhere; naturally he doesn't know you, but he's experienced enough to know that there's little point in knowing you at this stage.

My best advice is to return once you don't need an NDA. When, thanks to your research or any other deals you've made (e.g. potential clients) someone couldn't simply steal what you have. If all you have is an NDA to protect your business model, that's a warning sign to me that you don't have much.

And before you ask, yes I am a developer, with 15 years under my belt, although I am much more commercial than technical nowadays. More importantly, much of my work involves consulting for start-ups, getting them the VC and resources to get them up and going and bringing them up to a level where they can get those resources and VC without being laughed out of the room when they ask.

Dad11

Prefer to meet in person. I feel my idea may need more than one developer

The Corinthian wrote: »

Developers will get approached directly a few times a year with people with an 'idea'. On these boards, especially this one, someone will post that they have an 'idea' they want developed at least once a month - read through this forum if you don't believe me.

Presently you have an idea that you do not want to discuss in detail to protect the IP at present. Fair enough.

Thing is, presently that is all you have. You have no functionality specification, no business plan. No offer of payment. Nothing. Given you come from a commercial background and you're seeking the services of someone else's skills, you should understand that you're not coming to the table with much.

Ultimately, the onus is on you to sell the idea to any potential developer (be it a supplier, future employee or potential partner). There is a finite number of developers willing to spare the free time and a vastly larger number of people with 'ideas', most of which never get beyond a few scribbles on the laptop and a few pub conversations. Again, your commercial experience should be reminding you of the law of supply and demand at this point.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to go back and consider how best your idea would attract investment - and by investment, it's not just equity bought with VC, but also with sweat, and then pitch it again here and elsewhere. Getting upset with people here because they've seen 'ideas' people tire-kicking on fora like this, isn't going to get you anywhere; naturally he doesn't know you, but he's experienced enough to know that there's little point in knowing you at this stage.

My best advice is to return once you don't need an NDA. When, thanks to your research or any other deals you've made (e.g. potential clients) someone couldn't simply steal what you have. If all you have is an NDA to protect your business model, that's a warning sign to me that you don't have much.

And before you ask, yes I am a developer, with 15 years under my belt, although I am much more commercial than technical nowadays. More importantly, much of my work involves consulting for start-ups, getting them the VC and resources to get them up and going and bringing them up to a level where they can get those resources and VC without being laughed out of the room when they ask.

The Corinthian

Dad11 wrote: »

Prefer to meet in person. I feel my idea may need more than one developer

I don't think you understood what I wrote. Put it this way; imagine you're a developer, you get requests from people with ideas all the time, most of which are a complete waste of time. Why would you waste your time to meet someone in person who has nothing other than an 'idea'? If you're going to invest your time, aren't you going to do so where it's more likely to be worth it?

Because you might get a free lunch? Trust me, if the price of a free lunch is worth the time you spend at lunch, then you're not worth talking to.

I assure you, unless you're about to come out with the next Facebook, your idea isn't that special. Almost all ideas nowadays are simply re-workings of and new spins on old ones; like LinkedIn for circus performers or Google for academics or whatever. As someone who's been in both the Web and mobile industry a very long time, I can assure you the idea is a lot less important than the execution of that idea - indeed, if you look at Google, Facebook or any of the other big successes, none of them are actually original.

So again, I strongly recommend that you first do your research, including market research (and I don't mean asking a few of your mates what they think). Draw up a preliminary functionality spec, a business plan and most importantly how your idea will make money, because that's what it's about at the end of the day. Have customers commit to you and have a clear picture of what you're willing and able to offer a developer to woo them into your venture.

Then you'll be in a much better position, not only to get interest, but interest from those with experience and skills and not just a few students who will act as cheap and unreliable labour.

Best of luck.

Dad11

I am in the process of doing all that. I just wanted to guage how easy it is to attract a developer. I am drawing up a specification and business plan at the moment. I will be back (Arnie Style)

The Corinthian wrote: »

I don't think you understood what I wrote. Put it this way; imagine you're a developer, you get requests from people with ideas all the time, most of which are a complete waste of time. Why would you waste your time to meet someone in person who has nothing other than an 'idea'? If you're going to invest your time, aren't you going to do so where it's more likely to be worth it?

Because you might get a free lunch? Trust me, if the price of a free lunch is worth the time you spend at lunch, then you're not worth talking to.

I assure you, unless you're about to come out with the next Facebook, your idea isn't that special. Almost all ideas nowadays are simply re-workings of and new spins on old ones; like LinkedIn for circus performers or Google for academics or whatever. As someone who's been in both the Web and mobile industry a very long time, I can assure you the idea is a lot less important than the execution of that idea - indeed, if you look at Google, Facebook or any of the other big successes, none of them are actually original.

So again, I strongly recommend that you first do your research, including market research (and I don't mean asking a few of your mates what they think). Draw up a preliminary functionality spec, a business plan and most importantly how your idea will make money, because that's what it's about at the end of the day. Have customers commit to you and have a clear picture of what you're willing and able to offer a developer to woo them into your venture.

Then you'll be in a much better position, not only to get interest, but interest from those with experience and skills and not just a few students who will act as cheap and unreliable labour.

Best of luck.

Graham

Finding a developer isn't difficult, finding the right developer will be a harder task, finding the right developer that's prepared to work for 'no money down and a promise' will probably turn out to be a tougher task than learning to code and writing it yourself.

That's just the start. I'm assuming that as you mentioned the telecoms sector that you're not talking about a standalone app so you're probably not going to need just a mobile developer.

You'll probably start by turning your functional spec into some kind of technical spec.
Back-end, physical servers, virtual servers or cloud, what platform?
What about databases, Mongo, MySQL, SQL, Postgres?
Will you want the backend written in Node.js, Rails, Java, php, .Net?
Dev, staging, live environments and you can multiply the above requirements.
Who's going to manage and maintain all of the above once it has been commissioned?
Will you need in-app purchases/in-app notifications. Home-grown or will you pay for a 3rd party service to do that for you?
Will you need to interface with 3rd parties? If so how, JSON, XML something else?
Will 3rd parties need to interface with you? Will you have to have an API?
Will the app need any kind of web presence, web control-panel etc etc.
Will the web presence need to facilitate credit card payments? Which payment gateway, what about a merchant account?
What mobile platforms will you support? iOS, Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry? Native apps, cross-platform apps, web apps?
Any specific security standards/requirements you'll have to adhere to?

Who's going to decide on all of the above on your behalf? Who's going to project manage all of that, waterfall or agile? Who'll negotiate with vendors?

Then:

How are you going to sell your App?
What kind of support will you need to put into place?

The cherry on top will be learning how to run a business, manage people, finances etc etc etc.

Even if a lot of the above doesn't apply to your idea, it might give you an idea why some of the responses come across as a little cynical. It might also highlight a few areas you should add to your plan.
*Disclaimer, the above is not an exhaustive list. There's a rake of stuff that should be included that isn't.

ChRoMe

Graham wrote: »

that's prepared to work for 'no money down and a promise' will probably turn out to be a tougher task than learning to code and writing it yourself.

That sentence should be stickied.

The Corinthian

Graham wrote: »

Then:

How are you going to sell your App?
What kind of support will you need to put into place?

The cherry on top will be learning how to run a business, manage people, finances etc etc etc.

Oh, the stuff that follows your then statement is a lot more important than the techie stuff. Most IT start-ups don't fail on the basis of poor technology, but poor business. Even the most basic things, are ignored; how many threads have we seen where once we get an idea of what the 'idea' is it turns out that it's been done, and then the 'ideas' poster quietly stops posting?

Here's a few myths that would-be IT entrepreneurs would do well to dispel from their minds:

If you build it, they will come.

Wrong. The Internet is full of applications, solutions, sites and all sorts of wonderful gizmos that were built and are virtual ghost towns.

The 'idea' is the most valuable thing in the enterprise.

Wrong. As I already said, there's actually very few new 'ideas' and most are just new angles on old ones. And if they failed first time round, then fixing the flaw that caused them to fail is a lot more valuable, and even then no guarantee the new spin won't fail too.

At the end of the day, there's no such thing as a successful idea. Only a successful business.

The ideas guy is the business man and just needs a techie to bring it to fruition.

Wrong. Most ideas guys are clueless about business, but because they have to assign themselves a role (having an idea is not a 'role'), they go for the one they reckon they can learn along the way.

Dad11

Well thanks for all that. I am aware of diff languages, third party vendors etc. Nothing negative in there. Just reality! Like I said. Everything starts with an idea!

The Corinthian wrote: »

Oh, the stuff that follows your then statement is a lot more important than the techie stuff. Most IT start-ups don't fail on the basis of poor technology, but poor business. Even the most basic things, are ignored; how many threads have we seen where once we get an idea of what the 'idea' is it turns out that it's been done, and then the 'ideas' poster quietly stops posting?

Here's a few myths that would-be IT entrepreneurs would do well to dispel from their minds:

If you build it, they will come.

Wrong. The Internet is full of applications, solutions, sites and all sorts of wonderful gizmos that were built and are virtual ghost towns.

The 'idea' is the most valuable thing in the enterprise.

Wrong. As I already said, there's actually very few new 'ideas' and most are just new angles on old ones. And if they failed first time round, then fixing the flaw that caused them to fail is a lot more valuable, and even then no guarantee the new spin won't fail too.

At the end of the day, there's no such thing as a successful idea. Only a successful business.

The ideas guy is the business man and just needs a techie to bring it to fruition.

Wrong. Most ideas guys are clueless about business, but because they have to assign themselves a role (having an idea is not a 'role'), they go for the one they reckon they can learn along the way.

percy212

Its easy to knock any idea down. Most of the big names out there used stolen ideas and had a bit of luck with timing. If any of them had come on boards talking about their big idea prior to building they would have got laughed off the internet.

If you can get one customer to pay you to build your product/service (while keeping ownership of the product), go for it. Hire the people you need as you need them, and move on from there. If NONE of your contacts will pay you to build the app, it probably isn't a good idea.

Bottom line, don't spend your own money. If one person will pay for the product/service, more will follow. Look to overseas markets. Ireland is small. Build yourself as a brand along the way too, blog about your area of expertise, twitter, guest blog on other blogs, etc etc. Get yourself known as a trusted name in your product area.

Go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. There are always more ideas

Graham

Absolutely, nothing ventured, nothing gained. No disagreement from me whatsoever there.

Nobody has knocked the idea, that would be fairly difficult to be honest given that only the OP knows what the idea is. Most of the posts are just attempting to reset the OP's expectations with regard to finding a developer willing to bring his idea to fruition on the promise of a share of something that will have no value until the developer him(her)self has built it.

To add to Percy212s points,

If you have a sound design for a product based on your specific industry knowledge.
If you know there is a gap in the market or a particular pain point that your app will address.
If the benefits of your app will outweigh its costs.
If you are already considered an authority in your particular area of business.
If you have the ear of the movers and shakers in your profession.
If you have guaranteed customers before a line of code is written or even a guaranteed revenue stream.

Then you might begin to have the basis for a viable product or business and you may, just may begin to interest a developer enough to have a conversation with you about developing your app to the minimum viable product stage. Even then, it's far more likely you'll have to put your hand in your pocket before an app comes about.

Let me run two scenarios past you:

Scenario 1
You borrow say €50,000 against the value of your house to get your app written and launched? It's probably not an appealing thought and it's certainly a risk. You'd probably need to talk it over with your wife/partner so you could decide together if it's worth the risk. We're talking about the roof over your head at the end of the day. If you have a family it's probably even harder to have sufficient faith in your idea and yourself to make that leap even if you still have your day job and a consistent income.
Summary: the person with the idea finances the project, shoulders 100% of the risk and keeps 100% of the reward.

Scenario 2
You find a developer who would be willing to write the App for you in return for a share of the future profits. For the purposes of this example, lets say the App is going to take 4 - 6 months to develop. The developer still has to eat for that time, still has to cover a mortgage/rent, still has to pay the bills, run a car, support a family etc but during that 4 - 6 month period the developer has had to forego his entire income of 30k/40k/50k/60k??
Summary: the developer finances the project, shoulders 100% of the risk and receives what, 20%, 30% , 40% of the reward??

In scenario 2 the developer is essentially expected to provide an interest free, no-repayments, non-recourse loan. I don't know many developers that consider themselves to be finance houses, angel investors, or venture capital funds.

Trying to be more constructive now. OP, I would start and rethink your App along the lines of either:

• How much is it going to cost me to build and launch a minimum viable app to test the market.
• What do I need to learn to build and launch a minimum viable app to test the market.

cgarvey

Graham wrote: »

What if you approach me with an NDA and I sign it then discover it's similar to an idea I had 3 years ago? What if a week after I sign your NDA I get a real paying customer with a similar idea?

Are you confusing non-disclosure with non-compete? I've yet to see an NDA that incorporates any sort of non-compete clause, where no clear exit strategy/clause was included.

The normal course of action is "sorry, I'm already involved in a similar project, and have to terminate this agreement". Nothing stopping you working with both clients, as long as you're fair and transparent (morally), and strictly abide by any contracts/NDAs (legally). Better still get the two clients to join forces, if they both bring something to the party.

Blanket refusal to not sign NDAs won't get you very far, I'm afraid.

Fully agreed with the rest of your sentiment .. wishy-washy details, generally don't attract developers (or any others) to the table.

cgarvey

Dad11 wrote: »

I just wanted to guage how easy it is to attract a developer.

Easy if you set out what sort of developer you're looking for. Easier again, if you can clearly explain to said type of developer why it might be a good idea to meet up for that "free" lunch. Bear in mind that the vast majority of initial contact developers receive is from time wasters (deliberate or unintentional).

I'd suggest making your approach disclose enough details about the app; what's it similar to, who are its competitors, what broad technical features do you want (camera, file sharing, facebook integration, geo location, etc.), and how it will be financed. The wishy-washy "can we meet for a chat about an app idea I have" doesn't cut the mustard for most developers these days.

Graham

cgarvey wrote: »

Blanket refusal to not sign NDAs won't get you very far, I'm afraid.

I don't think there was a blanket refusal to sign NDAs but thanks for the tip. I honestly can't remember the last time I was asked to sign an NDA, confidentiality clauses usually form part of an overall contract further down the road.

It's a first date, it's rather poor form to try and have the condoms and exclusivity discussions before the dessert plates have been cleared.

Dad11

The next step for me is to build the specification which will include all the feature's. Step 2 is my business plan. Step 3 is market research. I will be speaking to Business about the concept etc. Then there is the users of the app. Its all well and good having people willing to pay to build the app, but people need to dowload it and use it! I am halfway through a specification

Graham wrote: »

I don't think there was a blanket refusal to sign NDAs but thanks for the tip. I honestly can't remember the last time I was asked to sign an NDA, confidentiality clauses usually form part of an overall contract further down the road.

It's a first date, it's rather poor form to try and have the condoms and exclusivity discussions before the dessert plates have been cleared.

The Corinthian

percy212 wrote: »

Bottom line, don't spend your own money. If one person will pay for the product/service, more will follow.

Straight from the Irish business cowboy playbook :rolleyes:

To begin with, it is virtually impossible not to spend your own money. Even if it involves buying lunch for people you meet, hosting for a Web site, travel to and from meetings or whatever, there will be expenses involved, which can quickly add up to hundreds or even thousands of Euro.

For example, say some VC's in London, Frankfurt or Geneva are interested in investing in your venture and want to meet, are you going to refuse to go out to them unless they cover your costs? If so, you're not going to get far.

There are ventures where the principle's outlay can be kept to a minimum, through the clever use of sweat equity and commissions, however there are realistically limits to how you can avoid this. Not all software can be knocked together in three months, ready to go to market, for a start. You won't always be able to convince someone to work in return for only sweat equity (could they even afford to have no income for that long?), and even if you could, it may not be worth your while to do so in the long run as that equity you use to pay for the labour is ultimately your own money too.

If you go into a venture looking not to put your hand in your pocket to any real degree, beyond the very, very early stages, then no one serious will take you seriously - if your confidence in your own venture is so low, then their confidence in your venture will mirror it.

cgarvey wrote: »

Blanket refusal to not sign NDAs won't get you very far, I'm afraid.

I agree to a great extent. Some would-be entrepreneurs have NDA's imposed on them - I met with a prospective client down in Milan a few months ago who required I sign an NDA. I had no issue signing it, but he still made it clear that it wasn't his idea, but a requirement of his investors.

Ultimately NDA's are limited though. They just mean you can't use any IP that's discussed. If someone hires you to do exactly the same thing, then that's not covered, as they came up with the same IP independently.

I would refuse an NDA if it runs over three or four pages though (I've seen some serious monsters over the years). Non-compete clauses are also a no-no, despite being pretty unenforceable, as they would be asking you to sign something which is more than an NDA. Non-reciprocal NDA's are also a bad sign, which is why, I'll carry my own NDA into a meeting and ask they sign that too, to protect my own IP (typically processes).

The Corinthian

Dad11 wrote: »

The next step for me is to build the specification which will include all the feature's. Step 2 is my business plan. Step 3 is market research.

You're doing it backwards. Market research is first as you want to confirm a market exists, before you go further, and that research will feed back into both the functionality of your solution and the business model.

Unless you've formally done business analysis in IT, and have experience in that area, you're not going to be able to do a requirements specification; you're not qualified to do so - simple as.

What you will be able to do is a preliminary functionality specification, with some storyboarding thrown in, which can later be developed into a more formal and complete document, by someone with a BA background.

Graham

The Corinthian wrote: »

You're doing it backwards. Market research is first as you want to confirm a market exists, before you go further, and that research will feed back into both the functionality of your solution and the business model.

Unless you've formally done business analysis in IT, and have experience in that area, you're not going to be able to do a requirements specification; you're not qualified to do so - simple as.

What you will be able to do is a preliminary functionality specification, with some storyboarding thrown in, which can later be developed into a more formal and complete document, by someone with a BA background.

+1 on all of this. Validate your concept as early as possible.

Dad11

These are all great pieces of Feedback. However when barriers are placed in front of me I usually smash through them, jump over them.

Graham wrote: »

+1 on all of this. Validate your concept as early as possible.

The Corinthian

Dad11 wrote: »

However when barriers are placed in front of me I usually smash through them, jump over them.

Personally I prefer to check if there's oncoming traffic before crossing a busy street.

ChRoMe

The Corinthian wrote: »

Personally I prefer to check if there's oncoming traffic before crossing a busy street.

Its too late this thread became a car crash on page 1, right on schedule. We should have something like a rogue's gallery stickied.

cgarvey

Dad11, The Corinthian's posts are the best free advice you'll get this year!

You're no where near the stage where you should be looking for a developer. Some technical advisor role, maybe.

percy212

The Corinthian wrote: »

Straight from the Irish business cowboy playbook :rolleyes:

Do I really need to explain this? Obviously you have to spend money on visiting potential customers, and market research. My advice is DO NOT SPEND YOUR OWN MONEY ON PROGRAMMERS unless a client is paying you first.

TommiesTank

OP, I'll develop this for you. I have settled for 80% equity. I'll get my solicitor to forward the contract ASAP. Looking forward to making tonnes of cash.

The Corinthian

percy212 wrote: »

Do I really need to explain this? Obviously you have to spend money on visiting potential customers, and market research. My advice is DO NOT SPEND YOUR OWN MONEY ON PROGRAMMERS unless a client is paying you first.

Again that's a ridiculous piece of advice.

Many serious software developments involve not only varied technologies and thus skill-sets, but can take months, if not years, to bring to stable release, let alone sale, integration and payment. It's not simply a case knocking up something quick, flogging it and hoping for the best - that's the way of the cowboy.

If you're not going to pay out of your own pocket, then you're either going to have to find someone else to pay for you (which isn't easy if you're essentially selling them vapourware) or expect the programmers to go without pay, for that extended period.

Presuming they have money to tide them over long enough for the first cheque to clear, why are they going to forgo a salary for, say, a year - because that's what we're talking about; anything between €40k and €80k easily, in opportunity cost.

Because they really believe in the concept? Sure, then if so, they'll not be looking for 5%, or even 20%, but 50% or more. So one way or another you're paying them.

At the end of the day, if you believe in your idea, putting your hand in your pocket is a good way of proving that you do. If you're not because you're hedging your bets (which is what it comes down to), then that transparent lack of confidence isn't going to go unnoticed of those you expect to invest what translates to a pretty hefty financial figure.

TommiesTank wrote: »

OP, I'll develop this for you. I have settled for 80% equity. I'll get my solicitor to forward the contract ASAP. Looking forward to making tonnes of cash.

Only 80%? You're being rather generous...

TommiesTank

The Corinthian wrote: »

Again that's a ridiculous piece of advice.

Many serious software developments involve not only varied technologies and thus skill-sets, but can take months, if not years, to bring to stable release, let alone sale, integration and payment. It's not simply a case knocking up something quick, flogging it and hoping for the best - that's the way of the cowboy.

If you're not going to pay out of your own pocket, then you're either going to have to find someone else to pay for you (which isn't easy if you're essentially selling them vapourware) or expect the programmers to go without pay, for that extended period.

Presuming they have money to tide them over long enough for the first cheque to clear, why are they going to forgo a salary for, say, a year - because that's what we're talking about; anything between €40k and €80k easily, in opportunity cost.

Because they really believe in the concept? Sure, then if so, they'll not be looking for 5%, or even 20%, but 50% or more. So one way or another you're paying them.

At the end of the day, if you believe in your idea, putting your hand in your pocket is a good way of proving that you do. If you're not because you're hedging your bets (which is what it comes down to), then that transparent lack of confidence isn't going to go unnoticed of those you expect to invest what translates to a pretty hefty financial figure.

Only 80%? You're being rather generous...

I was feeling generous and I want to keep the OP motivated. 80% of a billion is still a fair return for me.

Dad11

Thanks for advice everyone. I will be carrying out some market research over the next few weeks. Once I have some solid information ill take the next step! I had an idea that I would ne met with a lot of people trying to put me off and painting a somewhat negative picture. Maybe Ireland is not the right place to have it developed if it does make sense to build it.

TommiesTank wrote: »

I was feeling generous and I want to keep the OP motivated. 80% of a billion is still a fair return for me.

Graham

I think you'll find most of the negative sentiment isn't towards you, or your idea. It's the expectation/hope that you'll find a developer (worth having) that's prepared to finance your App by working for free. I doubt it's going to be any easier to find an off-shore developer that's prepared to work for free.

Dad11

I don't have that expectation at all. Never have and never will. I think that expectation lies with the people answering the posts here. This boards post if part of my market research. I wanted to throw out the idea of meeting for a chat. What have I learnt is there is no chance of that until I have done my market research, built specification and business plan. You better believe me I will be putting my own money into this however that won't be enough I will have to seek further investment also. I am realistic I don't expect to achieve what I want to achieve on my own. I have a vision of what I want to create. I just need to surround myself with the right team to make it a successful reality.

Graham wrote: »

I think you'll find most of the negative sentiment isn't towards you, or your idea. It's the expectation/hope that you'll find a developer (worth having) that's prepared to finance your App by working for free. I doubt it's going to be any easier to find an off-shore developer that's prepared to work for free.

Graham

I'm not sure where you're located but it wouldn't do you any harm to seek out a couple of the mobile dev/tech-start type meet ups, there's a few held in Dublin quite regularly.

If nothing else it may begin to familiarise you with the industry you're planning on entering and the terminology you'll be hearing a lot more of.

The other thing you may start and consider (if you haven't already) is a technical co-founder.

percy212

Best of luck OP. Try to avoid hiring pedantic programmers.

Digital Society

Graham wrote: »

Number of times I've come across a developer who's stolen someones idea, 0.

Thats nonsense really Every idea it seems in the last 10 years is someone elses idea stolen/improved/rehashed.

Name one good idea thats original seeing as every developer you know is apparently developing a unique original product.

Graham

Digital Society wrote: »

Thats nonsense really Every idea it seems in the last 10 years is someone elses idea stolen/improved/rehashed.

Name one good idea thats original seeing as every developer you know is apparently developing a unique original product.

Thanks for making Percy212's point

The Corinthian

Dad11 wrote: »

I had an idea that I would ne met with a lot of people trying to put me off and painting a somewhat negative picture. Maybe Ireland is not the right place to have it developed if it does make sense to build it.

Ireland is not a bad place to have an IT product developed on a technical level. Where it comes to cynicism, I can assure you that most other countries will be as 'negative' if not more so.

Where you may have a point is where it comes to raising investment. Investment deals in Ireland are not very good in general; if you can raise your VC in London, Frankfurt, New York, Zurich or Luxembourg, you're more likely to come out with a better deal than in Dublin where VC's will often try to scalp start-ups.

Digital Society wrote: »

Thats nonsense really Every idea it seems in the last 10 years is someone elses idea stolen/improved/rehashed.

Yes, but practically none have been 'stolen' in the sense of a developer taking the idea of a would-be entrepreneur and running with it themselves. Scenarios, such as the alleged theft of the idea that became Facebook from the Winklevoss brothers, are very, very rare.

Most successful 'thefts' are in reality based upon earlier attempts to bring something to market that either failed or had mediocre results. This is principally because it takes a lot more to 'steal' an idea than the ability to develop it.

srsly78

percy212 wrote: »

Best of luck OP. Try to avoid hiring pedantic programmers.

Software development is all about precisely codifying the smallest details, it's hard to imagine a more pedantic profession. So good luck with that.

The Corinthian

srsly78 wrote: »

Software development is all about precisely codifying the smallest details, it's hard to imagine a more pedantic profession. So good luck with that.

Pedantry is often invoked by some to explain those inconvenient truths that they've been told; if it's something they want to hear it's advice, when it's something they prefer wasn't true then it's pedantry.

BrianHenryIE

This is what you're looking for: The Swequity Exchange.

Good luck. Learn to spell before writing your business plan or people won't take it seriously. I hope it's social, mobile and local.

BrianHenryIE

srsly78 wrote: »

Software development is all about precisely codifying the smallest details, it's hard to imagine a more pedantic profession. So good luck with that.

I understood him as avoid people who want to refactor once more before launching instead of getting the MVP out the door.

The Corinthian

brian.henry wrote: »

I understood him as avoid people who want to refactor once more before launching instead of getting the MVP out the door.

Where did you get that from what he said?

BrianHenryIE

Pedantic about their code being top quality and perfectly engineered rather than being minimally functional for testing the business idea.

The Corinthian

brian.henry wrote: »

Pedantic about their code being top quality and perfectly engineered rather than being minimally functional for testing the business idea.

I understand what you mean, I just don't understand where you reckon he says anything like this.

BrianHenryIE

percy212 wrote: »

Try to avoid hiring pedantic programmers.

..because they'll delay launch in favour of their code being flawless?!

In a thread about a business idea, I don't think Percy means avoid people who, instead of taking advice, attribute inconvenient truths to something else.