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Dublin Directories

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  • 18-09-2013 4:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭


    I’ve posted a few details in reply before, but just to make to lookup offer official… I can check various Dublin Directories, mostly Thom’s from 1848 to the mid 20th Century which include Street and Trade Index listings for Dublin city and county. The Street listings for the city can also help locate exactly where a particular address was located (in conjunction with historic and modern maps) – e.g. see image from the 1865 listing below, showing numbers 2 to 6 running south on the east side of Grafton street between the junctions with Nassau St. and Adam Court.

    As well as Dublin city Thom’s includes listings for various towns in county Dublin, and also Bray / Little Bray. The listings are often not as detailed as the listings for the city, e.g. street listings only show for larger towns. As a sample see images and some transcripts from the County Dublin section of Thom’s 1848 here

    Not everyone is listed in these directories, e.g. you will not usually see a listing for someone that was a labourer or living in a tenement or small cottage, and in addition not all the streets are included so while there’s a full listing for ‘important’ streets like Grafton Street, smaller side streets and lanes often are only mentioned as a junction off a main street or a listing similar to ‘seven houses in tenements’ or ’24 small cottages’. The later directories include more names and streets – e.g. Thom’s 1943 is more than three times the volume of the 1848 edition.

    Also included in Thom’s are other sections covering lists of names and residences for all of Ireland of Priests/Ministers (CofI, RC, Presbyterian, Methodist etc), Magistrates, Attorney/Solicitors, Barristers, Medical Practitioners etc, and also officials (boards of PLUs, registrars, Medical Officers & Registrars etc) for Municipal Towns, Boroughs and Counties.

    Other directories I can check include Pettigrew & Oulton 1834 & 1840 (see images for the street listing for these here ), and several Watson / Treble Almanacks between 1783 and 1829.
    272428.jpg


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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    That's a very generous offer Shane. And thanks also for providing access to the Pettigrew & Oulton Directory's which have proved most useful.

    To get the ball rolling if I may...

    Would you be able to tell me what year Cornelius Pelly is first listed at 64 Harcourt Street? I know he resided there from the early 1870's but I'm curious to know what year.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    ....Would you be able to tell me what year Cornelius Pelly is first listed at 64 Harcourt Street? I know he resided there from the early 1870's but I'm curious to know what year.

    Starting with the 1869 listing and working 'forward'....

    1869 : Street listing shows, 64 Harcourt St., T. M. Brownrigg esq., Asst. Insp. Gen. of Constabulary. Cornelius Pelly in the index as Poor Law Auditor, Custom House and Gt. Georges St. North

    1872 : Street listing shows, 64 Harcourt St., vacant
    Cornelius Pelly in the index as Poor Law Auditor, Custom House - no residence mentioned.

    1877 : Index shows Cornelius Pelly esq., auditor Local Government Board, Custom House, with residences at 64 Harcourt Street and Rathduane Co. Cork.

    so looks like he acquired the Harcourt Street residence sometime between 1872 and 1877. (Rathduane townland seems to be located near to Millstreet town)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    That's interesting and many thanks.
    I was aware of his address at Rathduane - and you're right, it's close to Millstreet - but I didn't know of the address at Georges Street.
    Could I be rude and ask a similar question of his sister-in-law Mary Frances Pelly who moved into 56 Harcourt Street around the same time. She was previously at 52 Camden Street and again I'm curious to know when she moved. I'm guessing it was after her husband James died in 1878.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    ........a similar question of his sister-in-law Mary Frances Pelly who moved into 56 Harcourt Street around the same time. She was previously at 52 Camden Street and again I'm curious to know when she moved. I'm guessing it was after her husband James died in 1878.

    no luck with Mary so far... maybe she was not the primary householder...

    1877 : 52 Camden Street Lwr, Daniel O'Dwyer, surgeon
    (there's no 52 on Camden St. Upr.)
    56 Harcourt Street, vacant

    1879 : 52 Camden Street Lwr, Daniel O'Dwyer, surgeon
    56 Harcourt Street John Butler, German collage
    " Madame Butler, prof. of languages
    There's a Mrs. C.R. Pelly listed in the index at Charlemount Tce. Kingstown in 1879 - could this be her ?

    1885 : 52 Camden Street Lwr, Daniel O'Dwyer, surgeon
    56 Harcourt Street, Burke Gaffney, medical tutor and lecturer on Anatomy, Ledwich School

    1891 : 52 Camden Street Lwr, Joseph P. Brooke Kelly, (surgeon/physician)
    56 Harcourt Street, Miss M.M. Norris, Organiser of National Schools
    " W.R. Norris, M.B. R.Ch.
    " E. Bolton Norris esq

    There doesn't seem to be any sign of Cornelius at any address on Gt. Georges St. North in the 1872 street listing.

    p.s. I checked for James in the 1877 listing but there's no sign of him in Dublin trades index... what was his occupation ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    see 1865 and 1873 Pelley/Thompson baptisms with that Lr. Camden Street address. Daniel Dwyer the surgeon is the the head of household in the listing for both those years.

    Looks like your James and Mary rented from him, so probably not possible to trace them using directories, unless James has an occupation that specifically listed - e.g. M.D., Solicitor etc

    p.s. sometimes several 'heads of household' or businesses are listed for each address, but this address just shows the one name through to the 1890s


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,629 ✭✭✭googled eyes


    Very generous of you Shane. You've helped me in the past. So thanks in advance of ever taking up the offer again


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Great work Shane - sorry I'm late getting back to you.

    I know from some previous work I did using the incomplete set of Thom's in Tallaght library that Mary Frances is listed from 1900 onwards at 56. Her husband James was a doctor with addresses in Eyrecourt, Co. Galway and Harcourt Street, Dublin when they married in 1864. He died in 1878.

    Dr. O'Dwyer was the second husband of Mary Frances' mother Catherine and both he and Catherine died in 1891.

    Interestingly Hosea Guinness was a previous occupier of 52.

    EDIT: Dr. James address was Eyrecourt - not Harcourt.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    shanew wrote: »
    There's a Mrs. C.R. Pelly listed in the index at Charlemount Tce. Kingstown in 1879 - could this be her ?

    At a guess I'd say that C. R. refers to Louisa, the wife of the [then] late Charles Raymond Pelly who is a very distant relative of my Pelly's, their common ancestor being William Pelly from Poole, Dorset b. 1593 d. 1637. My Pelly's are descended from William's son Peter who allegedly came to Ireland on the run for sheep rustling, then a capital crime in England!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    ..Her husband James was a doctor with addresses in Eyrecourt, Co. Galway and Harcourt Street, Dublin when they married in 1864. He died in 1878.....Dr. O'Dwyer was the second husband of Mary Frances' mother Catherine and both he and Catherine died in 1891.

    ....I know from some previous work I did using the incomplete set of Thom's in Tallaght library that Mary Frances is listed from 1900 onwards at 56. ....

    looks like maybe Frances went home to her mother for the births of her children...

    1894 :
    56 Harcourt St., Mrs. Frances Pelly
    " Albert E. Wynne, Physician & Surgeon

    1899 :
    56 Harcourt St., Mrs. Frances Pelly

    Number 56 was on the west side of Harcourt Street 2nd down from the junction with Harcourt Road.

    In case it's of interest earlier Thom's (1870s) show a second Pelly M.D. in addition to James - a Patrick U. Pelly with an address at 51 York St. Dublin


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    shanew wrote: »
    looks like maybe Francis went home to her mother for the births of her children...

    1894 :
    56 Harcourt St., Mrs. Frances Pelly
    " Albert E. Wynne, Physician & Surgeon

    1899 :
    56 Harcourt St., Mrs. Frances Pelly
    Not sure about that. From my own records some children were born in Eyrecourt and some in Camden Street. This would have been before the move to Harcourt Street which I'm presuming happened after the death of her mother and step-father.
    Number 56 was on the west side of Harcourt Street 2nd down from the junction with Harcourt Road.
    Spot on. Some photos here from a previous thread in the Dublin City forum.
    In case it's of interest earlier Thom's (1870s) show a second Pelly M.D. in addition to James - a Patrick U. Pelly with an address at 51 York St. Dublin

    That is interesting although I can't link the letter U with anyone.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    preview of the 'Trades & Merchants' section from Watson's 1783 Almanac for Dublin (city). see : http://www.swilson.info/wat1783.php

    The list is alphabetical by surname, with trade/occupation and address.

    I've started transcribing this so that the details will eventually be searchable, by name, street, trade etc, but it's slow going as the initial OCR pass had a hard time with the text, and the double ss etc

    I'm working on an issue with the initial zoom on some setups, but should be possible to zoom in if the image starts off too small.. (this should be fixed now..)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    V good website. I love your townland explorer and ICA list especially.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Another one for you Shane if you don't mind.
    I'm trying to identify the husband of Mary Monks of Convent Road, Dalkey who presumably died before the 1901 Census and wondering if the Thom's might give a clue.
    I think this might be her death in 1906.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Thom's 1894 lists Convent Road, Dalkey - no. 7 listed as 'Mrs. Monks'

    will check some earlier dates later..


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    That's no problem Shane - whenever you get a chance.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    shanew wrote: »
    Thom's 1894 lists Convent Road, Dalkey - no. 7 listed as 'Mrs. Monks'

    will check some earlier dates later..

    no sign of a Mr. Monks, unfortunately. Looks like Mary may have already been a widow when she moved to Convent Rd. I dont see any likely male Monks deaths of the right sort of age and timeframe in Rathdown district.

    same listing for Convent rd. in 1891 as for 1894. 1885 has a Patrick Curtis at No. 7


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Not what I was hoping for but thanks very much Shane.

    These Monks are proving quite elusive !:(

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Hermy wrote: »
    These Monks are proving quite elusive !:(

    Perhaps they've no business living on Convent Rd?;)

    There is a widely distributed community newsletter in Dalkey, a letter to the editor might produce a result editor@dalkeycommunitycouncil.com The Dalkey site is at http://www.dalkeyhomepage.ie/


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    Not what I was hoping for but thanks very much Shane.

    These Monks are proving quite elusive !:(

    Do you know where in Co. Dublin your Monk family came from ?

    I have two branches of Monk/Monks in north County Dublin, none that moved to south county Dublin as far as I know.

    I did come across a Monks family not that far away in Glasthule at one stage, a bit younger than than your Mary .. think the father was DMP and one of the sons fought in WW1

    Might be worth checking Deans grange and Glasnevin burials for your Mary, as she may be buried with family. I suspect the informant for her death will be her grandchild Margaret, but might be worth checking in case a cert mentions anything useful like an informant, or her 'occupation' in terms of her husband e.g. as 'widow of farmer' etc


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    I have a possible burial at Glasnevin I'm going to pay for which could prove very enlightening.

    I know very little about the Monks' even though that's my mothers maiden name.
    Her grandfather was born in Fermoy (possibly his mothers home town) and later became butler to Justice Gerald Fitzgerald of Fitzwilliam Square. His two sisters were born in India and there's a record of a death in Karachi which is very likely his father who was a soldier serving in India at the time. Both sisters are on the 1901 Census but I can only find one on the 1911 Census.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Hermy wrote: »
    I have a possible burial at Glasnevin I'm going to pay for which could prove very enlightening.

    Well the burial record wasn't what I was looking for.
    Would it be possible to check if Margaret Monks stayed on at Convent Road after her grandmothers death in 1906.
    I know by 1911 she was at Clyde Road working as a domestic servant for Judge David Fitzgerald, presumably a brother of Gerald.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    Well the burial record wasn't what I was looking for.
    Would it be possible to check if Margaret Monks stayed on at Convent Road after her grandmothers death in 1906.....

    closest dates I can do for this are 1906 and 1910 - 1906 listing is still Mrs Monks, and 1910 listed as Wm. Rennicks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    A Louis Monks was living in Glenageary in the early 1920's when he built the 25 houses in Glasthule known as Devitt Villas.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Thanks for mentioning the above pedroeibar1 but unfortunately I'm struggling with the Monks family and I can neither rule Louis in or out.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Hermy wrote: »
    ...(possibly his mothers home town)...

    Make that a definitely!
    Just found a marriage cert on Ancestry for Francis Monks and Margaret McGrath in Fermoy.
    However their surnames are listed as Marks and M'Grath (without the C) which was enough to have me stumped. Now I'm hoping the marriage cert will give me a valuable clue about his father as this lad seems to have spent most of his married life in India.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,711 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Monks/Marks - transcription issue?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    MYOB wrote: »
    Monks/Marks - transcription issue?

    It seems like that but the cert will confirm.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Shane, would you mind checking another Thom's entry for me whenever you get a chance?
    Military records I recently acquired for Francis Monks lists his next of kin in 1869 as his mother, then with address an address at 9 Londonbridge Road, Ringsend in 1869.
    I'm curious to know what entries if any Thom's might have for this address in 1869 and the years either side of this.

    Thanks

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Should have said his mother's name is Mary!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    I think I may have had a quick look when it was mentioned earlier and didn't spot anything - the street is familiar. My paternal Grandmother was born at number 19, although a few years later (1907).

    Part of my maternal line lived on Newbridge Ave. which is just South.

    Will check it out the listing this evening and let you know...


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