Misleading and deceptive advertising in the Irish fitness industry?

Will Heffernan

Does anyone have any examples of individuals and or organisations in the Irish fitness industry who have gone out of their way to deliberately mislead or deceive the Irish public?

ninjabox

It's hard to prove that health advertising is deliberately misleading because the food companies make sure they have a lot of [terrible] research to back it up. But Brennans recently did an advertising campaign where they went on about the benefits of white bread.

Here's the advertisement (White bread actually raises your blood sugar levels faster than sugar itself. Source: http://athleticfoodie.com/?p=6374):

Will Heffernan

ninjabox wrote: »

It's hard to prove that health advertising is deliberately misleading because the food companies make sure they have a lot of [terrible] research to back it up. But Brennans recently did an advertising campaign where they went on about the benefits of white bread.

I think anytime a company or individual sets out to deliberately mislead and deceive the community it should be pointed out though? Maybe I'm completely wrong? Maybe in an effort to ensure greater profits anything goes? Maybe companies and individuals should be allowed to sell the general public any fabrications they like? Personally I think it is only with exposure that those individuals and companies begin to realise that it is not ok to treat people with contempt and conduct themselves in such a way as to show that they have some semblance of honesty and integrity. Is that too much to ask?

ninjabox

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I think anytime a company or individual sets out to deliberately mislead and deceive the community it should be pointed out though? Maybe I'm completely wrong? Maybe in an effort to ensure greater profits anything goes? Maybe companies and individuals should be allowed to sell the general public any fabrications they like? Personally I think it is only with exposure that those individuals and companies begin to realise that it is not ok to treat people with contempt and conduct themselves in such a way as to show that they have some semblance of honesty and integrity. Is that too much to ask?

I agree but what can you do, what they are doing is completely legal or else they wouldn't do it.

mikemac1

Our joining fee is 300 euro but I've just spoken to my boss in the next office (imaginary phone call) and today is your lucky day as we can reduce it to 100.

How can it be a special offer when there is an offer on 365 days a year. Supermarkets have regulations over this, gyms do not

This selling tactic is tiresome and insulting the customers intelligence, nobody pays full joining fee.

Though maybe it works since they still do it.

Westwood chain of gyms but there's not alone. And joining fees aren't so common anymore

redzerredzer

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I think anytime a company or individual sets out to deliberately mislead and deceive the community it should be pointed out though? Maybe I'm completely wrong? Maybe in an effort to ensure greater profits anything goes? Maybe companies and individuals should be allowed to sell the general public any fabrications they like? Personally I think it is only with exposure that those individuals and companies begin to realise that it is not ok to treat people with contempt and conduct themselves in such a way as to show that they have some semblance of honesty and integrity. Is that too much to ask?

Agree 100%.
What do you think these individuals and companies can do to to make amends if they decide that their actions or advertisements were wrong.

Vet Thrower

There's an ad currently running for a chain of gyms that has a Randy Savage type guy shouting in someone's face about lifting weights, and then deflating like a balloon to reveal a friendly, non-threatening, pastel coloured environment.

The implication clearly is that all gyms apart from the one being advertised are scary and intimidating.

This is clearly misleading, but really, who gives a sh1t?

Orla K

I'm not sure maybe the energy fitness ads.
Or there was a gym a while ago that did a before and after and they stated that the woman lost x amount of fat and gained y amount of muscle in z amount of time and the figures were totally unrealistic. Think Hanley posted about it.

I think with ads that what they say has to be true and they have to have something to back it up (one of the probiotic yoghurt brands no longer state some of the health benefits because it doesn't have the evidence to back it up) they also play with words which I always find interesting, take the bread ad none if what they actually say is false but they say it in such a way that makes people think it's better than what it is. Take the claim to a source of protein and yes is has protein, a small amount probably from the soya flour that they've started adding but since it has protein is can claim it's a source.

WHIP IT!

A pal of mine did a 'six-week body transformation' programme with a relatively well-known Dublin Gym at the start of this year... Gym's FB page is head-to-toe with 'Before/After' pics of people who've made stunning progress in previous 6-week programmes...

The training itself seemed to be decent, they were given a strict Paleo diet sheet etc, and my pal seemed to enjoy it... but it bothered me that, the week coming up to the six-week weigh-in, the chap running it was instructing him to manipulate water and dehydrate himself for the 'After' pic...

I just think that's false advertising so I take all their 'before/after' pics with a huge pinch of salt now...

Will Heffernan

ninjabox wrote: »

I agree but what can you do, what they are doing is completely legal or else they wouldn't do it.

You can expose it? I think companies and individuals will cease to treat the general public as idiots in cases where they can prove that they are not in fact idiots. So I really think it is up to us to show that we won't be treated as such.

Hanley

WHIP IT! wrote: »

A pal of mine did a 'six-week body transformation' programme with a relatively well-known Dublin Gym at the start of this year... Gym's FB page is head-to-toe with 'Before/After' pics of people who've made stunning progress in previous 6-week programmes...

The training itself seemed to be decent, they were given a strict Paleo diet sheet etc, and my pal seemed to enjoy it... but it bothered me that, the week coming up to the six-week weigh-in, the chap running it was instructing him to manipulate water and dehydrate himself for the 'After' pic...

I just think that's false advertising so I take all their 'before/after' pics with a huge pinch of salt now...

What sorta shape is he in now?

Think I know the gym. Sound lads but heard they were establishing a bit of a rep for it at this stage. Shame really.

Will Heffernan

mikemac1 wrote: »

Our joining fee is 300 euro but I've just spoken to my boss in the next office (imaginary phone call) and today is your lucky day as we can reduce it to 100.

How can it be a special offer when there is an offer on 365 days a year. Supermarkets have regulations over this, gyms do not

This selling tactic is tiresome and insulting the customers intelligence, nobody pays full joining fee.

Though maybe it works since they still do it.

Westwood chain of gyms but there's not alone. And joining fees aren't so common anymore

Most fitness industry players with joining fees work to an 'average' so in this case the joining fee is 300 bucks but the salesperson is getting paid based on his sales above say an average of 125 bucks per member. So if they think they can squeeze 300 out of you they will but the gyms give them room to negotiate...in the end they get what they can to try and beat the average and get there bonus.

Will Heffernan

Vet Thrower wrote: »

There's an ad currently running for a chain of gyms that has a Randy Savage type guy shouting in someone's face about lifting weights, and then deflating like a balloon to reveal a friendly, non-threatening, pastel coloured environment.

The implication clearly is that all gyms apart from the one being advertised are scary and intimidating.

This is clearly misleading, but really, who gives a sh1t?

See I don't find that as disturbing as the more insidious stuff. That is pretty 'in your face' and easier to see through.

WHIP IT!

Hanley wrote: »

What sorta shape is he in now?

Think I know the gym. Sound lads but heard they were establishing a bit of a rep for it at this stage. Shame really.

He's in the same shape he was before he started but that was his own fault really, he pretty much stopped going at the end of the six weeks... and yes, at the risk of appearing like a Facebook stalker, I'm quite sure you do know em

Hanley

WHIP IT! wrote: »

He's in the same shape he was before he started but that was his own fault really, he pretty much stopped going at the end of the six weeks... and yes, at the risk of appearing like a Facebook stalker, I'm quite sure you do know em

Yup. That's generally what happens with those programs. Burn and churn for a before/after

WHIP IT!

Will Heffernan wrote: »

See I don't find that as disturbing as the more insidious stuff. That is pretty 'in your face' and easier to see through.

I'd agree with that, the fact of the matter is that alot of people actually do find your regular gym 'big and scary' and somewhat intimidating... I actually think those ads are quite funny...

rubadub

ninjabox wrote: »

I agree but what can you do, what they are doing is completely legal or else they wouldn't do it.

Some have been legally challenged, like those holographic balance band things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Balance#Legal_issues

"Boards deals" were selling them and after a raft of posts moaning they took them off sale.

One gym beginning with E and founded by a cult leader, make hilarious claims of fat loss & muscle gain of their clients, I doubt they could dig up any doctor who would stand by them being anyway physically possible, under any circumstance.

Will Heffernan

Orla K wrote: »

I'm not sure maybe the energy fitness ads.

I will have to check those out. Are they still running? Online? TV? Radio?

Or there was a gym a while ago that did a before and after and they stated that the woman lost x amount of fat and gained y amount of muscle in z amount of time and the figures were totally unrealistic. Think Hanley posted about it.

That's good. It's good to have trustworthy posters like Hanley that you can rely on to point out people and companies in the industry that are using deceptive, manipulative, fabricated and misleading advertising. I will have to go back through his posts and see what individuals or companies he's named and shamed here in the past. I am all about people and companies having a light shone on them and I am glad that there's people like Hanley around to do the same.

I think with ads that what they say has to be true and they have to have something to back it up (one of the probiotic yoghurt brands no longer state some of the health benefits because it doesn't have the evidence to back it up) they also play with words which I always find interesting, take the bread ad none if what they actually say is false but they say it in such a way that makes people think it's better than what it is. Take the claim to a source of protein and yes is has protein, a small amount probably from the soya flour that they've started adding but since it has protein is can claim it's a source.

I agree 100%. If you are going to make claims then you should be willing to back it up.

Will Heffernan

redzerredzer wrote: »

Agree 100%.
What do you think these individuals and companies can do to to make amends if they decide that their actions or advertisements were wrong.

Correct them and apologise.

Will Heffernan

WHIP IT! wrote: »

A pal of mine did a 'six-week body transformation' programme with a relatively well-known Dublin Gym at the start of this year... Gym's FB page is head-to-toe with 'Before/After' pics of people who've made stunning progress in previous 6-week programmes...

The training itself seemed to be decent, they were given a strict Paleo diet sheet etc, and my pal seemed to enjoy it... but it bothered me that, the week coming up to the six-week weigh-in, the chap running it was instructing him to manipulate water and dehydrate himself for the 'After' pic...

You see a lot of that both using clients and proprietors as well. Anytime you see it a red flag should go up.

I just think that's false advertising so I take all their 'before/after' pics with a huge pinch of salt now...

It most cases it is false advertising and you should definitely take it with a pinch of salt.

Burkatron

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I will have to check those out. Are they still running? Online? TV? Radio?

Not a big scary gym, just Jackie Skelly's with a facelift! :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHl7aaQ9Mk&feature=youtu.be

rubadub

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I will have to go back through his posts and see what individuals or companies he's named and shamed here in the past.

That would be the "tallafornia gym", I think it was in the off topic thread, not sure if it was the new or old one. Some girl off the show was on it and had figures from a print out from a resistance based fat monitor device. In fairness I don't think it was a purposeful deceit, to me it just demonstrated how crap those resistance meters are, and also showed that the supposed trained person using it did not cop it either, or seemingly didn't.

It gave out a reading of lots of figures, and some false presumptions were being made, which I see all the time. e.g. if you have body fat % and weights from 2 different days you cannot really tell how much muscle gain/loss you had. Many make a presumption that any other change in weight must be muscle, when it could be water.

Will Heffernan

WHIP IT! wrote: »

He's in the same shape he was before he started but that was his own fault really, he pretty much stopped going at the end of the six weeks... and yes, at the risk of appearing like a Facebook stalker, I'm quite sure you do know em

What gym are we talking about?

Orla K

rubadub wrote: »

That would be the "tallafornia gym", I think it was in the off topic thread, not sure if it was the new or old one. Some girl off the show was on it and had figures from a print out from a resistance based fat monitor device. In fairness I don't think it was a purposeful deceit, to me it just demonstrated how crap those resistance meters are, and also showed that the supposed trained person using it did not cop it either, or seemingly didn't.

It gave out a reading of lots of figures, and some false presumptions were being made, which I see all the time. e.g. if you have body fat % and weights from 2 different days you cannot really tell how much muscle gain/loss you had. Many make a presumption that any other change in weight must be muscle, when it could be water.

Think that was it, couldn't remember the details of what went on.

Hanley

Orla K wrote: »

Think that was it, couldn't remember the details of what went on.

She posted a pic to twitter claiming a 6% BF drop and 2.5kg muscle gain in 5 or 6 days, I believe.

Will Heffernan

rubadub wrote: »

That would be the "tallafornia gym", I think it was in the off topic thread, not sure if it was the new or old one. Some girl off the show was on it and had figures from a print out from a resistance based fat monitor device. In fairness I don't think it was a purposeful deceit, to me it just demonstrated how crap those resistance meters are, and also showed that the supposed trained person using it did not cop it either, or seemingly didn't.

It gave out a reading of lots of figures, and some false presumptions were being made, which I see all the time. e.g. if you have body fat % and weights from 2 different days you cannot really tell how much muscle gain/loss you had. Many make a presumption that any other change in weight must be muscle, when it could be water.

Sounds more like something a TV producer would do...i.e. ask the gym to do it for TV...nothing TV loves more than the big reveal.

Well it was a good spot by Hanley anyway...it's good to have someone with some honesty and integrity pointing out the misleading and deceptive practices of others any chance he gets.

Henry9

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Does anyone have any examples of individuals and or organisations in the Irish fitness industry who have gone out of their way to deliberately mislead or deceive the Irish public?

Yes, but thankfully the denizens of the H&F forum were there to save the day.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056427178/1

Hanley

Henry9 wrote: »

Yes, but thankfully the denizens of the H&F forum were there to save the day.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056427178/1

Good on ya Henry!! I like this part "Don't lie, no one calls you a liar. Simples!!".

Will Heffernan

Henry9 wrote: »

Yes, but thankfully the denizens of the H&F forum were there to save the day.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056427178/1

Another awesome example of Hanley's honesty and integrity along with his steadfast commitment to pointing out the faults and errors of others.

There's nothing he hates more than health and fitness professionals producing material that is fabricated and misleading or could lead to the general public believing something that is clearly false and untrue.

Another 'good catch' in the fight against misleading and deceptive advertorial in the Irish fitness industry.

Will Heffernan

Hanley wrote: »

Good on ya Henry!! I like this part "Don't lie, no one calls you a liar. Simples!!".

You're not doing yourself justice mate.

What you actually said was:

Hanley wrote: »

But when you blatantly lie about sonething to sell yourself, and do it in a public manner, you can't be upset when you get crticised for it.

Don't lie, no one calls you a liar. Simples!!

Everyone should have a good read of that thread and see just how you go to work on Jay Farrant and his bullish*t. So they realise the debt they owe you in protecting the general public from what you think is obviously an unscrupulous health and fitness professionals that would say anything for $$$'s.

I'm with you on this one. I think it's appalling.

Hanley

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Everyone should have a good read of that thread and see just how you go to work on Jay Farrant and his bullish*t. So they realise the debt they owe you in protecting the general public from what you think is obviously an unscrupulous health and fitness professionals that would say anything for $$$'s.

I'm with you on this one. I think it's appalling.

That would be good. Maybe you could do the same with the LIA article. Look really closely to the quoted section (ie where I'm quoted) and pick it apart line by line and pull out anything you disagree with.

Go on, I dare ya.

Seriously, please do. If you can find a sentence in that where I lied, or said something factually incorrect, I'll donate a days training income to any charity you choose. I'll even post a screen shot of it. Or me handing over the cheque.

Orla K

What's with all the praise for Hanley? If your not careful he's going to have to get a bigger door in the new revfit just so his head will fit in!

Stench Blossoms

Orla K wrote: »

What's with all the praise for Hanley? If your not careful he's going to have to get a bigger door in the new revfit just so his head will fit in!

He might get more customers and be finally able to afford to buy some clothes too.

Alf Veedersane

Orla K wrote: »

What's with all the praise for Hanley? If your not careful he's going to have to get a bigger door in the new revfit just so his head will fit in!

If you zoom in on the screen-magnify by a couple of times-you'll be able to read between the lines :-)

tatumkelly

You too could drop 10% body fat in 6 weeks!

Will Heffernan

Hanley wrote: »

That would be good. Maybe you could do the same with the LIA article. Look really closely to the quoted section (ie where I'm quoted) and pick it apart line by line and pull out anything you disagree with.

What do you mean? Maybe you could post it? Only do so if it's 'on topic' as nothing annoys me more than 'off topic' discussion ruining good threads. So fire away...if it's something related to misleading and deceptive advertising in the Irish fitness industry than I am sure everyone else will be as interested in it as I am.

Go on, I dare ya.

I am totally down for it. Nothing I love better than a good dare.

Seriously, please do. If you can find a sentence in that where I lied, or said something factually incorrect, I'll donate a days training income to any charity you choose. I'll even post a screen shot of it. Or me handing over the cheque.

OK already enough enough. I said I'll take a look at this article for you.

So when I read it...the only thing I should concern myself with is what you've been quoted as saying?

I can do that. I will try to focus only on what you've been quoted as saying and I won't even look at the rest of the article...not even for context.

Will Heffernan

Orla K wrote: »

What's with all the praise for Hanley? If your not careful he's going to have to get a bigger door in the new revfit just so his head will fit in!

I just admire people who stand by their principles. People with honesty and integrity. When people do the right thing and look out for others they deserve praise.

Hanley

Will Heffernan wrote: »

What do you mean? Maybe you could post it? Only do so if it's 'on topic' as nothing annoys me more than 'off topic' discussion ruining good threads. So fire away...if it's something related to misleading and deceptive advertising in the Irish fitness industry than I am sure everyone else will be as interested in it as I am.


I am totally down for it. Nothing I love better than a good dare.


OK already enough enough. I said I'll take a look at this article for you.

So when I read it...the only thing I should concern myself with is what you've been quoted as saying?

I can do that. I will try to focus only on what you've been quoted as saying and I won't even look at the rest of the article...not even for context.

Great, thanks

I'm travelling most of tomorrow so will try to pick it up at some point.

Will Heffernan

Hanley wrote: »

Great, thanks

I'm travelling most of tomorrow so will try to pick it up at some point.

That's OK if you can't find it to post it yourself I suppose we'll have to wait for someone else to post it....if we both get really lucky maybe a first time poster will happen along and post the link if someone else doesn't get around to it.

In all honesty I think I know the article you mean though.

Happy travels.

LaHaine

No such thing as bad publicity.

OMCCABE

Deceit is far to common in the industry Will. A while back I had to challenge dat big hard sell north side gym on claims of having a celebrity trainer in house with a rumored amazon backed fatloss book on the way. It was ludicrous and the poor trainer involved stood her ground and refused to be misrepresented only to be forced out after years of loyalty to the shower of ......... she didn't deserve that treatment

Only way to deal with it is to call them on it...and PUBLICALLY. Post it here but even more effective is to stick it up with a photo on facebook and tag everyone you know in the industry

Cookie_Monster

The gov push the food triangle as good nutrition, pretty misleading.
Where's that thread with the safe food guys gone :pac:

Will Heffernan

LaHaine wrote: »

No such thing as bad publicity.

Even if that's true...I still think it's better if the truth is out for all the see and people are exposed for what they are...be that good or bad or in most cases a combination or balance of the two depending on how much money is involved.

Will Heffernan

OMCCABE wrote: »

Deceit is far to common in the industry Will.

It's always been a major disappointment to me. So many people I know talked a good game right up and until a few $$$'s were waved in front of their face...then they just sell out and come to represent everything they were previously supposedly against. I am not saying people have to eschew commercial or financial success. All I expect is that people do it with some honesty and integrity and without the deceit. Obviously though it is too much to ask or expect.

A while back I had to challenge dat big hard sell north side gym on claims of having a celebrity trainer in house with a rumored amazon backed fatloss book on the way. It was ludicrous and the poor trainer involved stood her ground and refused to be misrepresented only to be forced out after years of loyalty to the shower of ......... she didn't deserve that treatment

I came to learn early on that if you are used to being disappointed by people than you are seldom surprised. I still secretly always hope for the best though.

Only way to deal with it is to call them on it...and PUBLICALLY. Post it here but even more effective is to stick it up with a photo on facebook and tag everyone you know in the industry

1. People don't want to rock the boat.
2. A lot of people are more privately vocal than publicly (see point 1)
3. I call a spade a spade...or in this case if I see someone pretending to be one thing when they are clearly not then you can bet I'll bring it to peoples attention....I mean if I knew anyone that was like that obviously.

Will Heffernan

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The gov push the food triangle as good nutrition, pretty misleading.
Where's that thread with the dafe food guys gone :pac:

I think there is a lot wrong with peoples diet and nutrition generally. I don't think the traditional food pyramid is the biggest of these.

I know athletes whose food consumption would match the food pyramid almost exactly...the thing is they are training a couple of times a day for about 3-4hrs in total a day.

The bit I don't ever understand whenever I see people discussing this issue...the food and nutrition issue that is...is that fact that people are fat because they eat too much. They consume way more calories than they require and do so constantly and they end up fat.

I don't really get how that is the food pyramids fault. I am pretty sure that I could take any generic individual and put together a food plan along the lines of the food pyramid principles and they could have a happy, healthy and productive life. On the flip side of that and to be extreme I think I could kill someone with a paleo diet just as easily as I could with a food pyramid based diet.

As with training and all other things in life...it's about finding a sensible balance that meets your needs and requirements.

Will Heffernan

Will Heffernan wrote: »

As with training and all other things in life...it's about finding a sensible balance that meets your needs and requirements.

Who'd have thunk it.

Theresalwaysone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who'd have thunk it.

"Balance" in terms of nutrition and exercise is such an abstract term the average person. It means a whole lot of different things to different people.

Theresalwaysone

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

"Balance" in terms of nutrition and exercise is such an abstract term the average person. It means a whole lot of different things to different people.

I agree to a point, but at the same time, the notion of balance (applied to exercise or nutrition) seems to almost have been forgotten by the fitness industry - it's all geared towards the quick fix as opposed to the notion of fitness for life.


Edit - I'll rephrase that later - badly worded I know, but it's early and caffeine hasn't kicked in yet!

Will Heffernan

Deleted User wrote: »

Who'd have thunk it.

I know what you are getting at BUT 63% of Australian's are over weight and I'd say that as a population Ireland wouldn't be too far behind us...so with regard to who'd have thunk it....obviously the majority of the population can't even come close to wrapping their heads around it.

Will Heffernan

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

"Balance" in terms of nutrition and exercise is such an abstract term the average person.

Agreed. I mean we have a forum FULL of questions regarding weight loss and fat loss and yet 'eating less' seems to beyond the majority of the populations understanding.

It means a whole lot of different things to different people.

Agreed. Sadly. If everyone 'got it' though we wouldn't have a forum.

Theresalwaysone

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Agreed. I mean we have a forum FULL of questions regarding weight loss and fat loss and yet 'eating less' seems to beyond the majority of the populations understanding.


Agreed. Sadly. If everyone 'got it' though we wouldn't have a forum.

And thered be a lot more unemployed people around here.

On a related point;
It shouldn't be beyond a government to have an educational and up to date policy on nutrition and health.

This applies especially to Western nations who have or could find the money for it, and who would benefit in various ways from a 'healthier' population.

It seems beyond our cute hoors though.