Luas Red Line

Mantra

Hello people. Took two trips yesterday on the red line. Red Cow to Abbey St. Back again later that day. Not from Dublin and nothing against our city cousins. Made some great friends from Dublin. So lets get that out of the way. Just in case.

I have been taking the Luas since it launched. Great service. Heres the thing. It has at times, deteriorated to such a level for ordinary everyday patrons, that it is forcing people on to buses. Thats based on chatting to other people who commute. Fights. Junkies. People in other peoples faces among other things. We have to combat this to let other people travel in peace. God knows its hard enough to hold down a job these days without having to deal with these people. I know theres no simple solution but the powers that be, being Veolia, have to start turning the screw on this, in whatever format that takes. Enough said.

dregin

Aren't Veolia gone?

Have to say, I really can't stand that the people who are causing the crap on the LUAS are more often than not not even paying for the trip.

OldNotWIse

The luas red line is just a free ride into town for the junkies to collect their methadone :eek:

LXFlyer

Veolia = Transdev

MGWR

dregin wrote: »

Aren't Veolia gone?

Have to say, I really can't stand that the people who are causing the crap on the LUAS are more often than not not even paying for the trip.

Veolia are still there; they've just changed their name for the third time in their history. I'm sure many ought not forget the mess they were when called Connex.

I do wonder what kind of losses Luas is making once the subsidised segment of riders is factored out.

pappe

dregin wrote: »

Aren't Veolia gone?

Have to say, I really can't stand that the people who are causing the crap on the LUAS are more often than not not even paying for the trip.

Completely right.
The thing is that luas troublemakers either stay in or stand out whenever they see an orange vest.
I explained the situation to Luas customer service, and I am told that they are doing a lot to improve, but so far in several years it is just getting worse and worse. Those people are everywhere form 12 am to 12 pm, I can't take red luas a single time without being subject to intimidation.

Victor

Moved from Train & Rail Systems

Moderator

Mantra

Why has this thread been moved from train and rail?

LXFlyer

Because that forum is for discussing the trains or trams themselves - not the service!

Mantra

Fair enough. I will continue to highlight what actually goes on, on a daily basis on the red line of the luas in the proper forum. There is a place for this. People should not tolerate it on a daily basis. Ive seen people of all ages being harrassed. I hope they double the security on this line.

dfx-

Mantra wrote: »

I have been taking the Luas since it launched. Great service. Heres the thing. It has at times, deteriorated to such a level for ordinary everyday patrons, that it is forcing people on to buses. Thats based on chatting to other people who commute.

No bad thing. 100s of thousands of people do it a year..

SteM

dfx- wrote: »

No bad thing. 100s of thousands of people do it a year..

It's no bad things when people are using buses. The bad thing is when they feel they're forced into using them. If the option is there for my wife and child between luas and bus I'd like her to have the choice of which to use - I don't want her to be in fear of using the more comfortable of the two.

dfx-

The buses are more comfortable, quieter and hence safer, operated by brand new buses with heating and wifi, easier to get a seat - a seat which has more cushioning on it than the Luas.

I live on the Red Line Luas, but avoid it almost all cost for the superior bus services.

super_furry

It always left me bemused the way that when the inspectors get on the red line, the tram just empties.

road_high

I'm no expert on these things but isn't the Luas far too "open"? There's no barriers anywhere and you can effectively walk on/off at any of the stops no questions asked bar the risk of inspectors. it wouldn't take too much to install barriers would it? This would eliminate a lot of the anti-social free rider element.

LXFlyer

road_high wrote: »

I'm no expert on these things but isn't the Luas far too "open"? There's no barriers anywhere and you can effectively walk on/off at any of the stops no questions asked bar the risk of inspectors. it wouldn't take too much to install barriers would it? This would eliminate a lot of the anti-social free rider element.

Do you know of any tram system in the world that uses such measures?

I'm certainly not aware of any.

road_high

lxflyer wrote: »

Do you know of any tram system in the world that uses such measures?

I'm certainly not aware of any.

That's why I said i wasn't an expert, so clearly i don't. Do you? . Why would it not be possible? If things are as bad as people are saying.

goose06

road_high wrote: »

That's why I said i wasn't an expert, so clearly i don't. Do you? . Why would it not be possible? If things are as bad as people are saying.

They are as bad. I went to get on the Luas midweek after work at Hueston going to Tallaght, the door opened to 2 junkies punching the faces off of each other and if you know that stop you can imagine how busy it was with people trying to catch the train. No easy solutions I'm afraid unless a dedicate Garda unit was deployed on this route but that would be too expensive to operate I'd guess.

drumswan

Mantra wrote: »

Hello people. Took two trips yesterday on the red line. Red Cow to Abbey St. Back again later that day.

So what did you see on these two trips to warrant the thread?

Banjoxed

Two things badly needed:

1. A dedicated transport police with powers of arrest and detention, failing that adequate Garda presence, policing proactively, and with the judiciary prepared to give and enforce exemplary sentencing. If it means building a few more prisons so be it. No sympathy for scumbags.

2. Tighten the criteria for the Free Travel Passes. In no way should they be handed out as willy nilly as they have been, and ban usage before 10 and after 4.

Aard

super_furry wrote: »

It always left me bemused the way that when the inspectors get on the red line, the tram just empties.

I overheard two inspectors on the red line talking about which shifts/lines they prefer. Both of them said that they preferred the red line because of more standard fares. I can only imagine that they get some sort of commission.

bezerk

The Luas is not that bad. Sometimes theres junkies and scumbags on it but never had any hassle. It's not as bad as the OP describes it though. I only take the buses because there less crowded than the Luas,don't have a smelly armpit in your face with people holding onto railings or people breathing on you and the bus is far more comfortable. If I'm in a major rush I'll take the Luas

dowlingm

Aard wrote: »

I overheard two inspectors on the red line talking about which shifts/lines they prefer. Both of them said that they preferred the red line because of more standard fares. I can only imagine that they get some sort of commission.

Either that or they make their quota earlier in the day.

Del2005

Aard wrote: »

I overheard two inspectors on the red line talking about which shifts/lines they prefer. Both of them said that they preferred the red line because of more standard fares. I can only imagine that they get some sort of commission.

The problem is that they usually only give the standard fare to well dressed passengers. If you get on with a few cans in a tracksuit they'll leave you alone, or just ask you to get off so you can annoy the next load of passengers.

LXFlyer

road_high wrote: »

That's why I said i wasn't an expert, so clearly i don't. Do you? . Why would it not be possible? If things are as bad as people are saying.

Tram systems the world over are designed on an open access principle.

I don't know of any that have barrier systems.

Given that they operate on-street in many areas it would be next to near impossible to enforce.

As others say - the fundamental problem is a lack of interest from the State as a whole to deal with this societal problem - until the government wakes up and does something to deal with it, the public transport companies are left having to pick up the pieces.

The Kurgan

Red Line Luas Passengers should heed the following.

1.On entering Luas please mind the "step". (Step being junkie/alcho who' has passed out on the floor)
2.Make it your priority to sit near to the drivers cabin and opposite side to where the doors open,this will reduce the possibility of robbery/attack.
3.Sit at the rear of the Luas at your own risk.
4.Sit in a 4 seater at your own risk.
5.Do not use your fancy phone.if asked for a loan of your phone..you do not have one.
6.The stream of water trickling down the aisles may not be water...
7.Please do not engage in conversation with fellow passengers as they could be from a different planet than yourself.
8.Do not make eye contact.This can inflame the people from the other planet.
9.Always put earphones/headphones on regardless if you don't have a device to plug them in to.
10.On exiting the Luas .......Again please mind the step... :-)

Jamie2k9

What can only be described as one of the busiest nights for the Red line, not one single RPU officers or any security on trams. Saw at least 8 trams either way. At least 50% are boarding without paying. Transport operators wonder why they don't make profits.....

Banjoxed

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What can only be described as one of the busiest vnights for the Red line, not one single RPU officers or any security on trams. Saw at least 8 trams either way. At least 50% are boarding without paying. Transport operators wonder why they don't make profits.....

Are you sure? 50% not paying? Isn't is possible that quite a few legitimate people on public transport use taxsaver tickets. I don't doubt that those who cause disruption may not be paying but to make the blanket assertion that 50% aren't paying suggests a figure pulled from a dank crevasse somewhere.

Jamie2k9

Banjoxed wrote: »

Are you sure? 50% not paying? Isn't is possible that quite a few legitimate people on public transport use taxsaver tickets. I don't doubt that those who cause disruption may not be paying but to make the blanket assertion that 50% aren't paying suggests a figure pulled from a dank crevasse somewhere.

When the majority of people around were teens/early 20's, half drunk, can't see taxsaver tickets coming into it. The fact is RPU staff should be out on a night like tonight, they will be loosing a large amount of revenue this evening.

mikemac1

Aard wrote: »

I overheard two inspectors on the red line talking about which shifts/lines they prefer. Both of them said that they preferred the red line because of more standard fares. I can only imagine that they get some sort of commission.

Big men that they are they go straight for the quiet office worker who won't talk back. The agressive track suit brigade are left alone or stroll off to drink their cans on the next tram

I forgot my tax saver one morning and was issued a fine, fair 'nuff.
Funny how he checked me standing at the back and walked past the skangers calling him Africa

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What can only be described as one of the busiest nights for the Red line, not one single RPU officers or any security on trams. Saw at least 8 trams either way. At least 50% are boarding without paying. Transport operators wonder why they don't make profits.....

How do you know that they didn't have either return tickets purchased earlier or travel passes?

Surveyor11

I use this a few times a week - I work in City West and travel into town for meetings maybe once or twice per week on average. None of my other co-workers will use it, but I cycle to work so it's the only viable option to get in and out of town for me.

It really i turning into an unpleasant service. have to say I agree with Kurgan's rules above if you want to survive. I've used London Underground, the New York Subway, Paris Metro - the list goes on - and nowhere is as intimidating as this line is becoming. In fact, I always ensure I have headphones in - some scobe askes a question last week, I just ignore as if he's not there. Sad I know, but you've gotta look after number one! But having lived in Germany for a while and see how they deal with anti-social behaviour - goes something like this:

driver rings ahead at ye first sign of trouble;
Tram stops at the enxt stop;
Police unit of 3 or 4 pretty hefty guys with batons, Alsatian dogs and an Audi police car with it's door open are ready;
Scobe is taken off in said Audi;
Tram moves on;
Everyone gets on with their day;

Last week, I had some nutter claim my phone was in fact his and he 'was going to come and get it' - I'm 6'2", weigh about 90kg and this little scobe is trying to take me on. I've seen people being robbed in broad daylight, phones and bags, as well as every low life possible - mostly junkies, who use this to access the city centre for gear and methadone. A group of lads got on and started intimidating some old man in his 70's - disgusting behaviour. Then proceeded to taunt the inspectors that they had no tickets, which the inspectors duly ignored. A fella sparked up a fag on packed luas last week and proceeded to contaminate the whole carriage - safe in the knowledge that nothing would be done, I mean the chances orf getting stabbed are pretty high for trying to intervenme.

Last week capped it off - some knacker got into a crowded Luas at about 3pm in the afternoon, carried on a full drug deal in front of every one via his mobile - he was onto the dealer, telling him how much cash he's collected (€1800 that day apparently), that some drugs he had to dump in a bin 'cos he nearly got carrying, and when he went back the wraps were gone, and that he looked after that "wan who's always in a bad way" with some gear around the back of Wynn's.

As for fair dodging, well Transdev police this line tightly and you are checked almost every time you use it. But it's a losing battle. Sometimes they'll just dump the scobe out at the next stop without even bothering with paperwork. Something has to be done about it.

LXFlyer

Again, as I said in the other thread, the transport companies can do only so much. These people can be arrested, but in general are back out on the streets after a few hours.

Until the government starts to take the drug problem in our city/country seriously and puts the amount of money necessary to solve it in place and tackles the real problem - the dealers, this is just going to get worse and worse.

Surveyor11

lxflyer wrote: »

Again, as I said in the other thread, the transport companies can do only so much. These people can be arrested, but in general are back out on the streets after a few hours.

Until the government starts to take the drug problem in our city/country seriously and puts the amount of money necessary to solve it in place and tackles the real problem - the dealers, this is just going to get worse and worse.

Agree 100% that's where the problems lies. The drug problem and its associated anti-social consequences are getting out of control.

Grolschevik

Jaysus, a lot of really unlucky people on this thread!

I use the line regularly -- morning, evening and night (admittedly, only between Connolly and Smithfield/Museum) -- and I've never seen anything really serious. Spaced out semi-comatose junkies are common enough, to be sure, but I've rarely seen them act up.

My other half uses it every day, and reports a similar lack of trouble.

drumswan

Grolschevik wrote: »

Jaysus, a lot of really unlucky people on this thread!

I use the line regularly -- morning, evening and night (admittedly, only between Connolly and Smithfield/Museum) -- and I've never seen anything really serious. Spaced out semi-comatose junkies are common enough, to be sure, but I've rarely seen them act up.

My other half uses it every day, and reports a similar lack of trouble.

I used it for years without issue, this is the usual boards.ie thing of being terrified of people from council/corporation estates I imagine.

OldNotWIse

drumswan wrote: »

I used it for years without issue, this is the usual boards.ie thing of being terrified of people from council/corporation estates I imagine.

Did you miss the part where people relayed personal experiences?

I dont give a fuuck where people are from, I just dont like when they make life miserable for everyone else. Next you'll be telling us the poor junkies are disadvantaged and sure its not their fault, didnt they grow up without a field to kick a ball in.

drumswan

I asked for the OPs personal experience, it wasnt forthcoming.

Junkies are mostly harmless and a fact of life in modern cities unfortunately. The lads on here would **** themselves if they had to walk around crackhead infested Vancouver or Toronto

Surveyor11

drumswan wrote: »

I used it for years without issue, this is the usual boards.ie thing of being terrified of people from council/corporation estates I imagine.

Have you ever used any other public transport in another country? perhaps what you see as normal is what's not acceptable in other countries.

Rest assured there's no vendetta against people who live in council houses. The vast majority of people who do so are ordinary decent people. But my own observation is that we have huge social problems in this country that are being ignored. These are allow to fester and the 1% who are causing the issues are fcuking it up for the 99% who just want to get on with their jobs / social / college lives while travelling on this line.

drumswan

Ive lived in several countries and seen similar issues, the meth addicted prostitutes plaguing the St Kilda line in Melbourne and the aggressive crackheads on Victoria, BC and Dartmouth, NS buses spring to mind. Greyhound in North America is notorious for violence on buses and shady passengers. The buses and trains in the South of France where my partner is from are full of disaffected and often violent North African youth.

The dozy tracksuited skagheads on the luas are like pussycats compared to some of these lads.

BuffyBot

Note to posters: be respectful, even those you disagree with. And don't respond to personal attacks on thread.

The Kurgan

@drumswan not sure what your point is there ..just because Tighuana or where ever has "harder" scumbags on their transport system doesn't mean we should put up and shut up...that's just silly

Problems on the Luas is just a by -product of what's going on in the City Centre,it's a playground for the scum these days .
I'm sure there's numerous threads on that so i'll end it there.

AlekSmart

Surveyor11 wrote: »

I use this a few times a week - I work in City West and travel into town for meetings maybe once or twice per week on average. None of my other co-workers will use it, but I cycle to work so it's the only viable option to get in and out of town for me.

It really i turning into an unpleasant service. have to say I agree with Kurgan's rules above if you want to survive. I've used London Underground, the New York Subway, Paris Metro - the list goes on - and nowhere is as intimidating as this line is becoming. In fact, I always ensure I have headphones in - some scobe askes a question last week, I just ignore as if he's not there. Sad I know, but you've gotta look after number one! But having lived in Germany for a while and see how they deal with anti-social behaviour - goes something like this:

driver rings ahead at ye first sign of trouble;
Tram stops at the enxt stop;
Police unit of 3 or 4 pretty hefty guys with batons, Alsatian dogs and an Audi police car with it's door open are ready;
Scobe is taken off in said Audi;
Tram moves on;
Everyone gets on with their day;

Last week, I had some nutter claim my phone was in fact his and he 'was going to come and get it' - I'm 6'2", weigh about 90kg and this little scobe is trying to take me on. I've seen people being robbed in broad daylight, phones and bags, as well as every low life possible - mostly junkies, who use this to access the city centre for gear and methadone. A group of lads got on and started intimidating some old man in his 70's - disgusting behaviour. Then proceeded to taunt the inspectors that they had no tickets, which the inspectors duly ignored. A fella sparked up a fag on packed luas last week and proceeded to contaminate the whole carriage - safe in the knowledge that nothing would be done, I mean the chances orf getting stabbed are pretty high for trying to intervenme.

Last week capped it off - some knacker got into a crowded Luas at about 3pm in the afternoon, carried on a full drug deal in front of every one via his mobile - he was onto the dealer, telling him how much cash he's collected (€1800 that day apparently), that some drugs he had to dump in a bin 'cos he nearly got carrying, and when he went back the wraps were gone, and that he looked after that "wan who's always in a bad way" with some gear around the back of Wynn's.

As for fair dodging, well Transdev police this line tightly and you are checked almost every time you use it. But it's a losing battle. Sometimes they'll just dump the scobe out at the next stop without even bothering with paperwork. Something has to be done about it.

Problem is Surveyor11,many people will see your post as fabricated scare mongering,and that it's NOWHERE near as bad as you post...

You're not actually being called a liar,but the inference appears to be that your experience is to be pooh-pooh'd as everybody else appears happy with the eclectic experience of the Red Line..

Grolschevik: Jaysus, a lot of really unlucky people on this thread!

I use the line regularly -- morning, evening and night (admittedly, only between Connolly and Smithfield/Museum) -- and I've never seen anything really serious. Spaced out semi-comatose junkies are common enough, to be sure, but I've rarely seen them act up.

My other half uses it every day, and reports a similar lack of trouble.

...Or you'll be told to man-up and not be a Boards wuss :eek:

Drumswan: I used it for years without issue,this is the usual boards.ie thing of being terrified of people from council/corporation estates I imagine.

The issue is not the actual behaviour at all,because it's nothing new,having being a contributory factor in the continual reduction in Bus services to and within the Tallaght area over the years.

In The case of the Bus Service,the years of denial that any problem even existed,eventually led to the "ordinaries" deserting the Bus Service after evening peak,so we ended up with what today passes for a Public Bus service to one of the most populous areas of the State.

Doing nothing is,by all means,an option,but make no bones about it,it will lead to the Red Line eventually seeing the curtailments,cancellations and eventually the contraction of,what is a fantastic service,back to the "Safe Stations".

KD345

For anyone doubting the reports in this thread, a read of this article from a few days ago will put it into some perspective...

http://www.herald.ie/news/thug-terror-on-luas-red-line-at-record-high-29595512.html

AlekSmart

KD345 wrote: »

For anyone doubting the reports in this thread, a read of this article from a few days ago will put it into some perspective...

http://www.herald.ie/news/thug-terror-on-luas-red-line-at-record-high-29595512.html

103 Tram Windows.....WoW :eek: !

However,even allowing for the Paper never refusing ink argument, which will be applied here,these stats are not at all confidence inspiring.

Amirani

drumswan wrote: »

I asked for the OPs personal experience, it wasnt forthcoming.

Junkies are mostly harmless and a fact of life in modern cities unfortunately. The lads on here would **** themselves if they had to walk around crackhead infested Vancouver or Toronto

You're exaggerating just as much or more as the opposing side now.

SimonQuinlank

Never had any bother myself,use it from Jervis or Abbey out to Red Cow several times a week,and usually the last tram out of town on Friday and Saturday nights.

Seen addicts and drunks argue amongst themselves and 13/14 yo's give the ticket lads a bit of lip around the Fatima/Driminagh and James Hospital stops but nothing much worse really.I live in a rough enough area myself so maybe I'm just used to what some describe as trouble.

Only thing that really annoys me is when there's GAA on and it's hard to even get on a tram from Red Cow.

Aard

Genuine question, are different sections of the Red Line better or worse than others? It could be that some people only use city centre sections, and others use the Saggart extension, and the two could be entirely different worlds...

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

Genuine question, are different sections of the Red Line better or worse than others? It could be that some people only use city centre sections, and others use the Saggart extension, and the two could be entirely different worlds...

Probably the best way confirm/deny this is to observe the behaviour of other persons on the Trams...particularly outside peak-times.

Locations where the onboard temperature begins to fluctuate are Heuston-James Hospital-all stops to Bluebell. with serenity usually then prevailing as far as Belgard,where a shift-change of sorts often occurs.

Regular users do tend to become quite adept at placing themselves strategically to either avoid or reduce contact with these imbiciles,however the Transdev staff often do not have this luxury...My own thinking is that relieving these twits of Money at every opportunity is the only way which will focus whatever is left of their brainpower on their own behaviour.

On the spot fines...in cash..OR,if no cash to hand,then "that oul I-Phone,Galaxy or Soverign Ring collection will do just grand Sir,and here's your reciept....;)"

aaabbbb

lxflyer wrote: »

Do you know of any tram system in the world that uses such measures?

I'm certainly not aware of any.

Some of the trams in Amsterdam have this theres also a person in a ticket booth right in front of the door of the tram when it opens so It's much more difficult to et on w/o a ticket

Losty Dublin

AlekSmart wrote: »

On the spot fines...in cash..OR,if no cash to hand,then "that oul I-Phone,Galaxy or Soverign Ring collection will do just grand Sir,and here's your reciept....;)"

All they'd do in that instance is nick another one off somebody 3 seats away like they did with the confiscated one