satellite 19 billion miles from sun.

.jacksparrow.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/science/in-a-breathtaking-first-nasa-craft-exits-the-solar-system.html?source=hp&ei=vyMyUq3lNfCe7AaK5YG4Ag&q=nasa%20&oq=nasa%20&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.12..0l5.4332.8552.0.10658.11.8.2.1.1.0.228.839.6j1j1.8.0....0...1c.1.26.mobile-gws-hp..0.11.983.Svkk4lvJjfc&pagewanted=all&


The nerd in me is fascinated by this!

Might be a stupid question, but how has it not been hit by a meteor or floating rock?

mad stuff !

Can't beat those Nuclear batteries. 48 year life for a battery created in 1977, mental.

The Russians and Americans have been using them in remote locations for decades and most of them are very safe and need only very thin shielding.

What we could do with energy if the world wasn't so scared of Nuclear power. But greedy energy companies will ensure we'll never have such technology.

But it's mad to think the little craft is 11.7 billion miles from Earth, and still in your living room in space terms !

It's insane to think that even at light speed it would take 14 billion years to reach the end of the (known) universe !!!

Warp drive anyone ?

Even more fascinating is the little Voyager craft would take, at it's current speed of 64,000 or so kmh, 67,000 years to reach Alpha Centauri, the closest star system to our sun , a distance of a tiny 4 light years, tiny in space terms. meaning it would take 4 years at light speed to get there.

Space is mad !

joeperry

Deleted User wrote: »

Even more fascinating is the little Voyager craft would take, at it's current speed of 64,000 or so kmh, 67,000 years to reach Alpha Centauri, the closest star system to our sun , a distance of a tiny 4 light years, tiny in space terms. meaning it would take 4 years at light speed to get there.

Space is mad !

That's mad!!

Rubecula

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/science/in-a-breathtaking-first-nasa-craft-exits-the-solar-system.html?source=hp&ei=vyMyUq3lNfCe7AaK5YG4Ag&q=nasa%20&oq=nasa%20&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.12..0l5.4332.8552.0.10658.11.8.2.1.1.0.228.839.6j1j1.8.0....0...1c.1.26.mobile-gws-hp..0.11.983.Svkk4lvJjfc&pagewanted=all&


The nerd in me is fascinated by this!

Might be a stupid question, but how has it not been hit by a meteor or floating rock?

great link jacksparrow

Correction: September 12, 2013
A picture caption with an earlier version of this article referred incorrectly to Voyager 1. It is a spacecraft, not a satellite.

(Satellites are orbiting bodies)

space is nearly entirely empty, basically there is nothing out there to hit Voyager.

Karl Stein

It's over ten hours away travelling at 186,000 miles per second.

Hard to get your head wrapped around those vast distances.

steve-o

According to the RTE 9 o'clock news it has left our galaxy. Now it's really moving!

Knifey Spoony

steve-o wrote: »

According to the RTE 9 o'clock news it has left our galaxy. Now it's really moving!

Nope, it has the left the solar system. It'll be millions of years at least before it leaves the Milky Way.


Mad to think that in a couple of million years these two spacecrafts will be the only evidence that we existed and might be furthest that something that we built will ever get from this planet.

sbsquarepants

Deleted User wrote: »

Even more fascinating is the little Voyager craft would take, at it's current speed of 64,000 or so kmh, 67,000 years to reach Alpha Centauri, the closest star system to our sun , a distance of a tiny 4 light years, tiny in space terms. meaning it would take 4 years at light speed to get there.

Space is mad !

Maybe someone can clear this up for me because it does my head in.
Alpha centauri is 4 million light years away, so it takes light 4 million years to reach it, right -but isn't that actually wrong?
Light, ie actual photons of light reach it instantly due to contraction - it takes us 4 million years to watch it because we're moving slowly, but in the photons crazy high speed world it happened instantaneously - would the same be true of voyager if it somehow reached light speed (which I assume it never actually could, probably because it has mass?) Is that right? Or am I tripping?
Fúcking Einstein, head wrecking mother fúcker if ever there was one:mad:!

Karl Stein

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Fúcking Einstein, head wrecking mother fúcker if ever there was one:mad:!

I read a Brief History of Time and tbh I was making up my own 'explanations' (with lego-men in lego space ships and lots of mouthed sound effects) because I couldn't quite get the whole thing.

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Maybe someone can clear this up for me because it does my head in.
Alpha centauri is 4 million light years away, so it takes light 4 million years to reach it, right -but isn't that actually wrong?
Light, ie actual photons of light reach it instantly due to contraction - it takes us million years to watch it because we're moving slowly, but in the photons crazy high speed world it happened instantaneously - would the same be true of voyager if it somehow reached light speed (which I assume it never actually could, probably because it has mass?) Is that right? Or am I tripping?
Fúcking Einstein, head wrecking mother fúcker if ever there was one:mad:!

Sorry my mistake, it is Proxima Centauri I meant to say. Is 4 light years away.

Seemingly , even if you could travel a few hours at light speed, when you return to earth a few thousand years will have passed but you'll have aged only a few hours.

That's some mad freaking SHI£ !!!

This is where the "warp drive" comes into it as you bend space time or something, kinda like folding two parts of space, something like folding a A4 sheet in half, you make the two edges meet and you don't go anywhere, yet you're at the far side of the galaxy. You share the same space time or something.

Space is mental.

Knifey Spoony

There's an AMA going on over on Reddit by the team of engineers working with voyager now. Interesting stuff:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1m9wke/were_scientists_and_engineers_on_nasas_voyager/

Maximus Alexander

Knifey Spoony wrote: »

Nope, it has the left the solar system. It'll be millions of years at least before it leaves the Milky Way.


Mad to think that in a couple of million years these two spacecrafts will be the only evidence that we existed and might be furthest that something that we built will ever get from this planet.

Says who? I'd say our galaxy-spanning empire will be more than enough evidence.

Who knows lads, our solar system could be gobbled up by a big black hole, there are a fair few of them pretty close in the milky way !

Spooky thought !

Stella Virgo

Charlie Rock wrote: »

It's over ten hours away travelling at 186,000 miles per second.

Hard to get your head wrapped around those vast distances.

me thinks,u may need to re-calculate .....;)

Maximus Alexander

Deleted User wrote: »

Who knows lads, our solar system could be gobbled up by a big black hole, there are a fair few of them pretty close in the milky way !

Spooky thought !

That's not very likely. Black holes aren't just giant vacuum cleaners, they behave just like any other center of mass until you cross the event horizon. You would have to plow directly into one to be gobbled up by it, which in the vastness of space is vanishingly unlikely.

You might as well worry that the solar system could be gobbled up by NML Cygni, for example.

Maximus Alexander

Stella Virgo wrote: »

me thinks,u may need to re-calculate .....;)

18 hours is over ten hours?

28064212

Stella Virgo wrote: »

me thinks,u may need to re-calculate .....;)

Only slightly out, it's actually 17 hours and 22 minutes: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/science/in-a-breathtaking-first-nasa-craft-exits-the-solar-system.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

Also:

Duggy747

Have always been fascinated by the Voyager crafts. That really is an insane distance for a man-made object to have travelled in full working order, especially based on 70's tech.

Love this Carl Sagan tribute video based on them:

ozmo

Knifey Spoony wrote: »

Nope, it has the left the solar system. It'll be millions of years at least before it leaves the Milky Way.

Doesnt seem to be even that: More "Voyager now in interstellar space."

Quote from todays interview:

[–]NASAJPL 791 points 11 hours ago*
It's a very fine point and many people don't realize the Oort cloud is in interstellar space AND it's considered part of the solar system. We knew many media would make the error and we tried to make it clear in interviews. And you're right -- none of our materials say we've exited the solar system. Thankfully, some media have recognized the distinction. Mashable.com has a good story that explained the difference. http://mashable.com/2013/09/12/voyager-1-interstellar-space/ It's actually a cool factoid that the public could learn about our solar system. @VeronicaMcg Social Media Team

Knifey Spoony wrote: »

Mad to think that in a couple of million years these two spacecrafts will be the only evidence that we existed and might be furthest that something that
we built will ever get from this planet.

Thats cool.... Maybe we could also count the Radio waves we are giving off? - TV etc - dont know how far they will be detectable from Earth - but its sure to be a long way - hope the Aliens don't judge us too harshly on some of the content

28064212

My favourite Voyager fact: Voyager 1 and 2 have 69.63 kilobytes of memory each. That's 71,301 bytes.

To put it into context, the text of this page (prior to this post, with no images or external stylesheets) takes up 163,683 bytes

seamus

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Might be a stupid question, but how has it not been hit by a meteor or floating rock?

The vastness of space really cannot be underestimated. It's in fact unfathomably large, basically impossible for our brains to properly visualise the scale.

And when it comes to space, it's all about the scale. There was an interesting animation created a few months back which shows all of the NEOs (Near-earth Objects) appearing in the order in which they were discovered. The number of objects increases exponentially the closer we get to today, until in the end it looks like the earth is surrounded by millions of randomly flying about objects ready to destroy us at a moment's notice.

Except that even though the Earth is big, the space between us and these objects is bigger. Way bigger, like the earth is a football floating in the Irish sea and the object is a grain of sand floating in Dublin Bay.

When either object is tiny, astronomically speaking, like Voyager, the chances of being randomly hit by a piece of passing rock are tiny. Like less than winning the euromillions. There are tiny particles, smaller than a grain of sand, which chances are have hit Voyager plenty of times, but these would be almost undetectable.

The same isn't necessarily true of craft in an Earth orbit because Earth has a tendency to attract crap towards it, and we've also managed to leave a lot of crap in space all by ourselves. So craft in orbit do need to watch out for stuff and move out of the way from time to time.

Knifey Spoony

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Says who? I'd say our galaxy-spanning empire will be more than enough evidence.

Says me....:pac:

But yeah, that should have read "could be" instead of "will be". But, I think that entirely depends on whether your an optimist or pessimist. We could, in the future, develop technology and methods of travel that will allow us to colonize other plants/solar systems, avoiding destruction by asteroid or by death of the Sun. Or we could blow ourselves up in the coming decade, leaving only Voyager, and a number of other probes as evidence that we once existed.

mickmackey1

Knifey Spoony wrote: »

Nope, it has the left the solar system. It'll be millions of years at least before it leaves the Milky Way.

It will never leave the Milky Way, it doesn't have the speed to escape the gravitational attraction of the galaxy.

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That's not very likely. Black holes aren't just giant vacuum cleaners, they behave just like any other center of mass until you cross the event horizon. You would have to plow directly into one to be gobbled up by it, which in the vastness of space is vanishingly unlikely.

You might as well worry that the solar system could be gobbled up by NML Cygni, for example.

That's ok, I can sleep better tonight so !

Maximus Alexander

Knifey Spoony wrote: »

Says me....:pac:

But yeah, that should have read "could be" instead of "will be". But, I think that entirely depends on whether your an optimist or pessimist. We could, in the future, develop technology and methods of travel that will allow us to colonize other plants/solar systems, avoiding destruction by asteroid or by death of the Sun. Or we could blow ourselves up in the coming decade, leaving only Voyager, and a number of other probes as evidence that we once existed.

I guess I'm an optimist then! I'm of the opinion that if we were going to wipe ourselves out we probably would have done it during the cold war. There's something about mutually assured destruction that seems to hammer a bit of sense into people, even megalomaniacs .;)

Muas Tenek

Tip of the hat to another event from 1977


"Ladies and Gentlemen............... Voyager has left the Solar System"

ps200306

ozmo wrote: »

Quote from todays interview:

[–]NASAJPL 791 points 11 hours ago*
It's a very fine point and many people don't realize the Oort cloud is in interstellar space AND it's considered part of the solar system. We knew many media would make the error and we tried to make it clear in interviews. And you're right -- none of our materials say we've exited the solar system. Thankfully, some media have recognized the distinction. Mashable.com has a good story that explained the difference. http://mashable.com/2013/09/12/voyager-1-interstellar-space/ It's actually a cool factoid that the public could learn about our solar system. @VeronicaMcg Social Media Team

I'm so glad someone pointed that out. It's been annoying me so much I drew a picture based on the Wikipedia Oort Cloud page ...



On this scale, Voyager (marked with the red X) is still nearly at the centre of the Solar System, and will not leave it until the year 19,500 (when it will be just a quarter of the way to the nearest star) !!!

slade_x

28064212 wrote: »

My favourite Voyager fact: Voyager 1 and 2 have 69.63 kilobytes of memory each. That's 71,301 bytes.

To put it into context, the text of this page (prior to this post, with no images or external stylesheets) takes up 163,683 bytes

I never knew those vehicles were so limited in memory capacity.

However your entire post in plain text including your signature is approx 748 bytes

You could fit your entire post including signature with formatting 14 times over in a .docx format @ 163,683 bytes. One of which amounts to less than 11,256 bytes (>11KB)

28064212

slade_x wrote: »

However your entire post in plain text including your signature is approx 748 bytes

I said the entire page i.e. the HTML source code

Maximus Alexander

slade_x wrote: »

I never knew those vehicles were so limited in memory capacity.

However your entire post in plain text including your signature is approx 748 bytes

You could fit your entire post including signature with formatting 14 times over in a .docx format @ 163,683 bytes. One of which amounts to less than 11,256 bytes (>11KB)

Bear in mind we are talking memory, not storage. The tape decks on the Voyagers have about 60 MB of capacity.

SpaceTime

I suppose when you consider the vastness of space, the likelihood of being hit by an object is relatively slim provided you're not going through areas with high density of flying objects.

Also, with regard to the nuclear battery technology, it's not a bad idea if you're out in space, but would you really want one in your boiler house out the back?

There's nothing for the battery to damage if it did leak the odd bit of radiation as space-hardened electronic systems on Voyager would be pretty much impervious to anything like that where as us complex biological entities store all of our data for building and repairing our own systems in complex proteins that can be damaged by ionising radiation resulting in major malfunctions i.e. cancer.

It's impressive that Voyager's still on-line at all though given how old it is and how far out in space it is.

The other aspect of it though is that it's so far from the sun that it's probably getting exposed to relatively little radiation and its temperature is probably stable.

Quite a lot of the more interesting systems like cameras are now off line though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_2

Still an absolutely amazing project though and something we should be doing more of, instead of spending a fortune tied up in development of weapons systems and dealing with ridiculous banking bubbles.

When you think about it, humans spend a lot of time and energy on in-fighting nonsense when we could be doing amazing things like this.

We could have afforded a few Voyager probe programmes for the cost of bailing out Anglo and when you think of it, Voyager 1 and 2 probably contributed more to human knowledge than almost any other exploration programme we have ever gone on.

It's a shame that we can't get our collective acts together and do more of this kind of thing and less fighting over nonsense on earth.

28064212

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Bear in mind we are talking memory, not storage. The tape decks on the Voyagers have about 60 MB of capacity.

Aren't they non-volatile though i.e. Voyager can't write to them? The only space they can use for storing data for transmission to Earth is the 69kb?

SpaceTime

Can you imagine what we could do with a modern Voyager though.
The technological advances in things like imaging systems, cameras, computer processing, computer memory and digital compression / transmission systems is just vast.

If you combined the best of US, European, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, South Korean and anyone else who would like to join in technology you could have one incredible space probe!

28064212

28064212 wrote: »

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Bear in mind we are talking memory, not storage. The tape decks on the Voyagers have about 60 MB of capacity.

Aren't they non-volatile though i.e. Voyager can't write to them? The only space they can use for storing data for transmission to Earth is the 69kb?

Huh, just checked, you're right. 63.896Mb, to be exact. Wikipedia needs an edit. Source (PDF, page 16, chapter on Downlink Telemetry)

Maximus Alexander

28064212 wrote: »

Aren't they non-volatile though i.e. Voyager can't write to them? The only space they can use for storing data for transmission to Earth is the 69kb?

I don't think so.

NASA Archive wrote:

Total recycleable storage capacity
is about 536 million bits -- the equivalent of 100 TV pictures.
Playback is at four speeds -- 57.6; 33.6; 21.6 and 7.2 kbps.

SpaceTime

SpaceTime wrote: »

Also, with regard to the nuclear battery technology, it's not a bad idea if you're out in space, but would you really want one in your boiler house out the back?

There's nothing for the battery to damage if it did leak the odd bit of radiation as space-hardened electronic systems on Voyager would be pretty much impervious to anything like that where as us complex biological entities store all of our data for building and repairing our own systems in complex proteins that can be damaged by ionising radiation resulting in major malfunctions i.e. cancer.

Nuclear batteries are extremely tough and have survived space re-entry and have even survived explosions of failed launches.

Provided they can use a nuclear fuel that can't be used for making bombs I see no reason they could not be used in your garage shed !

Imaging having heat and electricity for 20 years or 50 years ?

You could even bury them in concrete in the back yard, I'm sure that would eliminate any potential leaks, but it would be better to recycle at end of life.

If they were not so inefficient they could be used for cars, as they would have to be huge to give several kw of power and the rtg's are in efficient.

They have nuclear ships, and subs but they have full blown reactors. I don't think nuclear batteries or rtg's could give that kind of power in any small scale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator

H3llR4iser

ozmo wrote: »

...Thats cool.... Maybe we could also count the Radio waves we are giving off? - TV etc - dont know how far they will be detectable from Earth - but its sure to be a long way - hope the Aliens don't judge us too harshly on some of the content

That's something that can make for an interesting scenario. I can totally see an hypotethical alliance of alien civilizations stumbling upon stuff like Fair City, Jersey Shore, East Enders, Jeremy Kyle, X-Factor, not to mention Jedward or One Direction, and decide hey pronto that Earth and all its inhabitants should be vaporized before we infect the rest of the galaxy.

SpaceTime wrote: »

Still an absolutely amazing project though and something we should be doing more of, instead of spending a fortune tied up in development of weapons systems and dealing with ridiculous banking bubbles.

When you think about it, humans spend a lot of time and energy on in-fighting nonsense when we could be doing amazing things like this.

In this sense, we as mankind still are muck savages killing each other for a piece of land. If there are other civilizations and they are relatively nearby, I can see why they would avoid like the plague any type of contact with a planet inhabitated by a backwards, warlike, ignorant, xenophobical, fanatical and greedy race.

SpaceTime

H3llR4iser wrote: »

In this sense, we as mankind still are muck savages killing each other for a piece of land. If there are other civilizations and they are relatively nearby, I can see why they would avoid like the plague any type of contact with a planet inhabitated by a backwards, warlike, ignorant, xenophobical, fanatical and greedy race.

True, but I think we are gradually outgrowing that mode of existence. I think the decades since dawn of serious telecommunications, especially satellite television that can penetrate borders and the Internet along with relatively cheap aviation, the world has changed dramatically.

I don't think you'll ever see a war between developed countries again because they're so bound up with each other economically and culturally and have so many interpersonal connections it's just not possible anymore. Interests are too well aligned.

I can't even imagine China or Russia kicking anything crazy off. I mean, look at the way China is quietly dealing with North Korea behind the scenes because it's not in its interests to have that nutty regime firing nukes at its neighbours and major markets. Or how Russia has come up with a way of putting Syria's chemical weapons beyond use to avoid a major nasty international conflict. That shows a serious level of political maturity and dislike of war to me.

Wars will continue to bubble away in less developed places, but they'll eventually move on too.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic about humans. Once they're not lied, brainwashed with propaganda and mislead by all-powerful leaders who feed them nonsense about enemies over the hill or reds under the bed or whatever their pet hate is, people are generally pretty decent.

So, who knows, we could have a golden century of internationally corporative space exploration ahead!

I really think the EU could do a lot more with ESA though. We shouldn't be depending on NASA's ability to get a budget which is becoming increasingly difficult in the light of the financial crisis and the US' lack of interest in space in recent years.

It would be really cool if some kind of space exploration trust could be setup that would bring state and philanthropic resources together to do something really amazing.

I mean, seriously, what's the point of being here if we can't explore?!

Voyager 1 only cost $865 million (with inflation I know that's a fair few billion since 1972) but even so it's still pretty cheap considering that you could get to the edge of the solar system and take photos for the cost of building a motorway from Dublin to Cork.

Apple Inc could fund about 10 Voyager missions with the cash it keeps in its back pocket!

mickmackey1

Wouldn't really agree - although wars between nations will probably be less likely, as technology increases it will become available to smaller groups who will then have the same level of threat as was formerly available only to governments.

Tar.Aldarion

It hasn't left the solar system, it's in interstellar space

Rubecula

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

It hasn't left the solar system, it's in interstellar space

Forgive me if I am wrong but Interstellar space is outside the solar system isn't it? Intrastellar space is inside the solar system??

I am not sure but I think that is the case

Maximus Alexander

Rubecula wrote: »

Forgive me if I am wrong but Interstellar space is outside the solar system isn't it? Intrastellar space is inside the solar system??

I am not sure but I think that is the case

No, interstellar space just means beyond the heliopause, where the solar wind and the sun's magnetic field no longer dominate.

To get out of the solar system proper, you would have to get to a place where the sun's gravity no longer dominates and by that standard Voyager 1 will remain in the solar system for at least 30,000 years.

Rubecula

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

No, interstellar space just means beyond the heliopause, where the solar wind and the sun's magnetic field no longer dominate.

To get out of the solar system proper, you would have to get to a place where the sun's gravity no longer dominates and by that standard Voyager 1 will remain in the solar system for at least 30,000 years.

Thanks Maximus Alexander, valuable bit of info for me there. Is the Oort cloud inside or outside on that reckoning do you know?

Maximus Alexander

Rubecula wrote: »

Thanks Maximus Alexander, valuable bit of info for me there. Is the Oort cloud inside or outside on that reckoning do you know?

The outer edge of the Oort cloud is considered to be the solar system boundary based on that I believe, because Oort cloud objects are gravitationally bound to the sun.

The ones on the far edge are quite loosely bound so they get disturbed easily and either flung away or thrown in towards us.

Tar.Aldarion

Yep that's seen as the edge as another stars gravitational affect is greater than ours. Here's a comic about voyager news stories over the years




"So far Voyager 1 has 'left the Solar System' by passing through the termination shock three times, the heliopause twice, and once each through the heliosheath, heliosphere, heliodrome, auroral discontinuity, Heaviside layer, trans-Neptunian panic zone, magnetogap, US Census Bureau Solar System statistical boundary, Kuiper gauntlet, Oort void, and crystal sphere holding the fixed stars."

Wibbs

SpaceTime wrote: »

We could have afforded a few Voyager probe programmes for the cost of bailing out Anglo and when you think of it,

For the cost of bailing out Anglo we could have built lots of Voyagers. Put it this way we could have built nearly forty Mars rovers like Spirit with the money.

SpaceTime wrote: »

Can you imagine what we could do with a modern Voyager though.
The technological advances in things like imaging systems, cameras, computer processing, computer memory and digital compression / transmission systems is just vast.

True, though there may be something to be said for the simplicity of Voyagers design. Fewer things to go wrong.

SpaceTime

Wibbs wrote: »

True, though there may be something to be said for the simplicity of Voyagers design. Fewer things to go wrong.

True, but in many ways some of the modern equipment might be even more reliable. Voyager had tape drives for example which could have gone wrong and had very limited storage. Modern solid-state drives can be radiation hardened and are very light and reliable in comparison and have vast storage space. So, you could record loads of data and then drip-feed it back to earth over the radio link. Modern compression would definitely help there too as you could squeeze a lot more data down the link than they could in the mid-70s when that system was put together.

Modern CCD cameras would also probably have provided us much longer run time as they're not very power hungry and much higher resolution than the Vidicon analog video camera tubes on Voyager.