Tradesmen : Do you trust them?

Ush1

I find it hard dealing with most Irish tradesmen when you want a job done to a standard.

When pricing up jobs I find they often offer a "patch things up" fix rather than actually get to the root of the problem. Probably a lot of people happy with that approach but I guess I'm more anal about such things. I want to know what's being done and it should make sense, but unfortunately lots of the time what they're saying doesn't or it conflicts with other stuff you've been told.

This can go for many professions in my experience. Plumbers, roofers, mechanics, even the likes of people that work in IT.

Anybody else find dealing with them very frustrating?

smash

I trust no one!!!!

pablohoney87

Everyone when dealing with tries to get one that can do 3 things.

Done well
Done Fast
Done Cheap

Fact is they can only get 2/3 of them and thats something that baffles a lot of customers. You see it in most industries but Tradesmen have it the worst because theyre dealing with normal people 90% of the time. And People are stupid.

lkionm

smash wrote: »

I trust no one!!!!

I trust you.

Primus Pilus

Tradesman are like like any profession, you have lazy individuals and some who do a bang up job. The thing about tradesman is they set their own prices, if you're cheap and hire a someone cheap, you'll probably get a cheaply done job. No different than any service or product really.

Ush1

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Everyone when dealing with tries to get one that can do 3 things.

Done well
Done Fast
Done Cheap

Fact is they can only get 2/3 of them and thats something that baffles a lot of customers. You see it in most industries but Tradesmen have it the worst because theyre dealing with normal people 90% of the time. And People are stupid.

The problem I find is that while they may well do good work, how they talk about it and detail it seems a bit blasé.

"Sure I'll have a look an that and fix it"
"What you could do there is...."

They might offer the cheapest, quickest, and usually worst solution to a problem initially but only after being pressed will they offer a proper fix.

Lando Griffin

Part of our house A conversion was cold so called out someone who does the cavity fill.
He went to the ESB box and opened it stuck his biro into a hole and explained that there was no insulation the job would be nearly Euro2000 including insulating the attic.
Got a second opinion person came with a camera scope and explained there was insulation in the cavity and only the attic needed to be done at a cost of Eur 600.
Got a third guy who said there was insulation in the wall, and to insulate the attic and see if that improved things, he suggested that I could do it myself which I agreed, total cost for whole house around Eur 360.
So I spent an Saturday in the attic rolling it out listening to football.
The house is now lovely and warm and heat on for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, in the winter.

danniemcq

I usually work off other peoples recomendations,

If i need a plumber I ask mates, same with most things like that where i wouldn't have the skills to do myself.

I never picked someone out of a book or from an ad.

"You're renting aren't you? So the landlord will cover it? In that case it'll cost about 5k and my brother can supply a few parts too"
Eh no thanks, bye now

Ush1

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Part of our house A conversion was cold so called out someone who does the cavity fill.
He went to the ESB box and opened it stuck his biro into a hole and explained that there was no insulation the job would be nearly Euro2000 including insulating the attic.
Got a second opinion person came with a camera scope and explained there was insulation in the cavity and only the attic needed to be done at a cost of Eur 600.
Got a third guy who said there was insulation in the wall, and to insulate the attic and see if that improved things, he suggested that I could do it myself which I agreed, total cost for whole house around Eur 360.
So I spent an Saturday in the attic rolling it out listening to football.
The house is now lovely and warm and heat on for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, in the winter.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.
One issue and you basically got three different solutions.

pablohoney87

Ush1 wrote: »

The problem I find is that while they may well do good work, how they talk about it and detail it seems a bit blasé.

"Sure I'll have a look an that and fix it"
"What you could do there is...."

They might offer the cheapest, quickest, and usually worst solution to a problem initially but only after being pressed will they offer a proper fix.

They're tradesmen, hardly walking around with Masters in English Degrees. That's in no way a dig at them but the ability to describe what they are doing in Lay terms is a skill in itself. A skill most people, let alone tradesmen, have never learned.

You could bring an engineer in to describe to you what the guy is doing if you like

mikemac1

Too many no show tradesmen out there

Every one of them has a mobile so why they can't be call?

I booked a half day annual leave, my tradesman for 2pm was a no show and when I finally got him on the phone at 7pm he turned it around as if I was being unreasonable and awkward

I hear them crying on Joe Duffy show about no work but many it seems can't be arsed unless you are a big job

strobe

Ush1 wrote: »

The problem I find is that while they may well do good work, how they talk about it and detail it seems a bit blasé.

"Sure I'll have a look an that and fix it"
"What you could do there is...."

They might offer the cheapest, quickest, and usually worst solution to a problem initially but only after being pressed will they offer a proper fix.

Sounds like you may come across a bit cheap.So they feel you're always after the cheapest option, so that's what they offer you.

Ush1

pablohoney87 wrote: »

They're tradesmen, hardly walking around with Masters in English Degrees. That's in no way a dig at them but the ability to describe what they are doing in Lay terms is a skill in itself. A skill most people, let alone tradesmen, have never learned.

You could bring an engineer in to describe to you what the guy is doing if you like

I don't think it's a skill in itself to be honest. They've been doing this kind of work for years and normally dealing with the public years. They're selling a service so piece of mind comes into it. I don't even mean extraneous detail, just concise of what the problem is, what they're doing to fix it, price of labour and materials.

An engineer might not know what someone is doing though?

Ush1

strobe wrote: »

Sounds like you may come across a bit cheap.So they feel you're always after the cheapest option, so that's what they offer you.

How would you come across as cheap? Do you think I live in Mogadishu with rags instead of clothes?

pablohoney87

Ush1 wrote: »

I don't think it's a skill in itself to be honest.

Well you're wrong










to be honest

Sunglasses Ron

Tradesmen do it on your doorstep. Particularly pavers.

stefan idiot jones

I'm a tradesman of twenty six years of experience, and you can trust me to....

















Put your wifes knickers over my head the moment you have left the house.

Maximus Alexander

Ush1 wrote: »

more anal

Ah here, keep that filth out of AH. Do we not have a forum for this?

Ush1

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Well you're wrong










to be honest

Tell me the problems then. People who usually struggle to articulate themselves, don't have a clue really what they're talking about. In my work I deal with tradesmen and most competent ones would have no trouble explaining what they do to a layperson.

Most people probably aren't that interested, but someone asking a question clearly has some interest and wants to understand.

TheDoc

There is a website that is rock solid where you can post up the job you want done and a few details, and you'll get contacted by a number of tradesmen registered to the site who will give you a quote etc. etc. and it seems like its a really good idea.

Fella was telling me how he got a leaky roof fixed and a wall re-plastered for a fraction of what he thought it would be, and it was an excellent job. **** forget the site name now

Agricola

You have to get recommendations really. I got a plumber recommended to me from a friend who got the guy to do a huge overhaul in his Kitchen. Said the standard was high. And it was.

Once or twice I have got tradesmen from an ad. I either got shoddy work which needed attention to finish it, or in one memorable case got a massive bill for work that wasnt even done. After a long dispute, I ended up paying the appropriate price.

strobe

Ush1 wrote: »

How would you come across as cheap? Do you justk I live in Mogadishu with rags instead of clothes?

not quite. But some people in their language and general manner just come across as cheapskates. It's a character quality of sorts I suppose. Others I guess are so paranoid about gangster cowboy tradesmen roaming the country looking for victims to rip off that they can't help but sound cheap.

Just a possibility .

Ush1

strobe wrote: »

not quite. But some people in their language and general manner just come across as cheapskates. It's a character quality of sorts I suppose. Others I guess are so paranoid about gangster cowboy tradesmen roaming the country looking for victims to rip off that they can't help but sound cheap.

Just a possibility .

I'm honestly not that bothered about the price, more confidence in the person doing the work. Only way to have that confidence is to ask questions.

If a tradesman thinks that's looking for the cheapest, half-baked option he's a bad businessman, simple as.

pablohoney87

Ush1 wrote: »

Tell me the problems then. People who usually struggle to articulate themselves, don't have a clue really what they're talking about. In my work I deal with tradesmen and most competent ones would have no trouble explaining what they do to a layperson.

Problems? Its called communication and its a skill whether you think it or not.

People genuinely have trouble communicating. And that has nothing to do with the quality of work they provide.

Ush1

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Problems? Its called communication and its a skill whether you think it or not.

People genuinely have trouble communicating. And that has nothing to do with the quality of work they provide.

Great, well I'm saying part of their job is communicating whether you think it or not.

pablohoney87

Ush1 wrote: »

Great, well I'm saying part of their job is communicating whether you think it or not.

Maybe from a sales point of view. Its not a skill they are taught from the beginning. But whether they can explain the problem to you or not it has no impact on the work they've done

Tony EH

Ush1 wrote: »

Tradesmen : Do you trust them?

No.

We had extensive work done to our home after a serious flood and already the "work" is starting to deteriorate. This, after having to get them to redo a lot of the work when they were in the house originally!

The toilet is leaking, the seal around the bath is coming away. The taps aren't working correctly. There's mold growing on the MDF that was used on some items.

Irish builders are a bloody joke, with all the expense placed on the punter.

Come back Polish builders...all is forgiven!!!

Ush1

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Maybe from a sales point of view. Its not a skill they are taught from the beginning. But whether they can explain the problem to you or not it has no impact on the work they've done

I've already said they may well do good work but you are selling a service at the end of the day. Guy could be the best plumber in the world but people might not know it if he can't answer a couple of questions about what he's actually going to do.

I'm not looking for long drawn out conversations, as I said, this is the problem and this is the correct, long term fix. Perfect.

chippy81

Ush1 wrote: »

I'm honestly not that bothered about the price, more confidence in the person doing the work. Only way to have that confidence is to ask questions.

If a tradesman thinks that's looking for the cheapest, half-baked option he's a bad businessman, simple as.

Your in a minority then as I've found that most people worry about price as nuclear anything. I've also found that if you tell someone that a repair will cost say 200 but fix it properly or replacement will cost 2000 they go for cheaper option

Some customers make you feel like your trying to rip them off if you say it costs 2000 to do it right

pablohoney87

Ush1 wrote: »

I've already said they may well do good work but you are selling a service at the end of the day. Guy could be the best plumber in the world but people might not know it if he can't answer a couple of questions about what he's actually going to do.

I'm not looking for long drawn out conversations, as I said, this is the problem and this is the correct, long term fix. Perfect.

Ahem

Ush1 wrote: »

People who usually struggle to articulate themselves, don't have a clue really what they're talking about. In my work I deal with tradesmen and most competent ones would have no trouble explaining what they do to a layperson.

Ush1

chippy81 wrote: »

Your in a minority then as I've found that most people worry about price as nuclear anything. I've also found that if you tell someone that a repair will cost say 200 but fix it properly or replacement will cost 2000 they go for cheaper option

Some customers make you feel like your trying to rip them off if you say it costs 2000 to do it right

Totally understand.

Just to give an example, had a leak in the roof and I can see where in the felt. First guy explains problem with flashing on chimney, sounds good.
Second guy comes out and says, all we have to do is patch the felt. I asked, but water shouldn't be running over the felt should it? No he goes, and looks kind of awkward.

Tony EH

chippy81 wrote: »

Your in a minority then as I've found that most people worry about price as nuclear anything. I've also found that if you tell someone that a repair will cost say 200 but fix it properly or replacement will cost 2000 they go for cheaper option

Some customers make you feel like your trying to rip them off if you say it costs 2000 to do it right

If one guy is telling 200 and another is telling you 2000, then it's a sure bet that both are lying to you.

Ush1

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Ahem

Yes, what's the issue? I find most people that can't explain what they're doing or answer basic enough questions haven't a clue.

Might be exceptions but as I've said, who knows if their work is good otherwise?

chippy81

Tony EH wrote: »

If one guy is telling 200 and another is telling you 2000, then it's a sure bet that both are lying to you.

How
Could it not be that a patch up to last a few months or a year can cost 200 and todo it right costs 2000 I.e strip back and redo from scratch
They were figures off top of my head by the way

BeerWolf

The Irish ones ? Of course not, a LOT of them are con men and liars!

chippy81

The talkers usually get more work than the quiet ones regardless of their skills and ability. I find some talkers frighten people by saying it could cost 10grand to fix then give them a price of 8000 when in reality job probably costs about 5000 but people are relieved its not 10000.

pablohoney87

Ush1 wrote: »

Yes, what's the issue? I find most people that can't explain what they're doing or answer basic enough questions haven't a clue.

Might be exceptions but as I've said, who knows if their work is good otherwise?

We're going round in circles here. I'm out

Ush1

pablohoney87 wrote: »

We're going round in circles here. I'm out

If there was some other way I could find out a tradesmen was good or knew what he was doing without actually communicating with him I would do it, but I don't see any other option.

Tony EH

chippy81 wrote: »

How
Could it not be that a patch up to last a few months or a year can cost 200 and todo it right costs 2000 I.e strip back and redo from scratch
They were figures off top of my head by the way

It's way too much of a discrepency. The real cost is more than likely in between somewhere.

I know the figs are off the top of your head and I'm going on what I've experienced myself TBH. I've had some truly wild quotes offered to me in my time. Once I was quoted 5000 for a boiler replacement by one lad and then another said it would cost me 600. I settied with another fella who did a great job for around 1100.

Quotes are so off the rails sometimes, it's no wonder that some people are bamboozled. The guy who said 5000 later said he was expecting me to haggle. FFS :rolleyes:

pablohoney87

Ush1 wrote: »

If there was some other way I could find out a tradesmen was good or knew what he was doing without actually communicating with him I would do it, but I don't see any other option.

Tradesmens best friend/worst enemy is word of mouth. Ask someone who had a job done well

Tony EH

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Tradesmens best friend/worst enemy is word of mouth. Ask someone who had a job done well

Unfortunately though, there are way too many who don't care about that as there's usually some work to be found.

Irish builders have an appaling reputaion and it's one that is richly deserved in my opinion. There are far too many horror stories by people who've been stung by Irish builders for it to simply a minority make the rest look bad.

The reality is that it's the majority of cowboys that make the few honest lads lives difficult.

chippy81

Tony EH wrote: »

It's way too much of a discrepency. The real cost is more than likely in between somewhere.

I know the figs are off the top of your head and I'm going on what I've experienced myself TBH. I've had some truly wild quotes offered to me in my time. Once I was quoted 5000 for a boiler replacement by one lad and then another said it would cost me 600. I settied with another fella who did a great job for around 1100.

Quotes are so off the rails sometimes, it's no wonder that some people are bamboozled. The guy who said 5000 later said he was expecting me to haggle. FFS :rolleyes:

It's my experience that some tradesmen give quotes like selling a car start high to get price you want if people don't haggle then he's onto a winner and others just give straight up price and if people do start to haggle he can't move and sometimes loses the work

Ush1

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Tradesmens best friend/worst enemy is word of mouth. Ask someone who had a job done well

Not always possible, you might not know anybody who can recommend someone for the specific job.

Even if they are recommended, it's not the same type of assurance as someone who speaks with authority about the work to be done.

chippy81

Tony EH wrote: »

It's way too much of a discrepency. The real cost is more than likely in between somewhere.

I know the figs are off the top of your head and I'm going on what I've experienced myself TBH. I've had some truly wild quotes offered to me in my time. Once I was quoted 5000 for a boiler replacement by one lad and then another said it would cost me 600. I settied with another fella who did a great job for around 1100.

Quotes are so off the rails sometimes, it's no wonder that some people are bamboozled. The guy who said 5000 later said he was expecting me to haggle. FFS :rolleyes:

Example:
Flat roof leaking.
Patch
Roll of felt, gas, couple hours work patching a few areas keep it going for a
while 200

Redo
Strip roof, skip, 4 rolls of underlay and felt, plywood, insulation, couple days work maybe depending on size 2000

Mr McBoatface

Just because somebody say they are a tradesman doesn't make them so. To be a tradesman a trade certificate is required .....you must have completed an apprenticeship usually 4 years but can be 5 years.

Standards have to be achieved, Irish tradesman are trained to high standards and always do very well the international skills competitions Worldskills

There are skilled labours (some unskilled) that call themselves tradesman and some do excellent work, some don't..... but these are not tradesman.
Quiet often you get what you pay for; recommendations are fine but are not a guarantee of the workers ability to deal with unusual and non-standard work that a tradesman can deal with because they were trained.

Doom

Polish plumbers anyone....
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yog9hE-_F5M&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dyog9hE-_F5M

gramar

In my experience if you want a job done properly then be prepared to pay that bit more - by properly I mean a top quality job. If, like most people you want to pay middle of the road prices you'll get a middle of the road job.

There'll always be a few who'll do an excellent job for reasonable money and a few who will leave it worse than it was but in general you get what you pay for.

greenflash

I have ways found plumbers to be the most unreliable, dishonest, laziest and devious shower of bastards on the planet. Even when you get one on a recommendation they will try something on or hide a mess which should be fixed.

After learning from hard experience I never pay any tradesman in full until I'm completely satisfied the job is finished to the standard promised when I took them on. Holding back half the money is the only way to get something done properly in this country. It really saddens me sometimes that everyone in Ireland is always on the lookout for the short cut or easy route and there's little pride taken in doing anything correctly.

Wacker The Attacker

Always live by the maxim "Caveat Emptor".

This applies equally to tradesmen. The buyer should definitely beware

jacksie66

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