Religion for animals

Kiwi in IE

Even my local vet has a Catholic 'ethos' it seems. I was told to 'pray' for my cat and ask God to heal her. She will heal just fine with anti biotics alone I am sure, and subsequent feline and canine health issues will be dealt with at another clinic after that bizarre encounter. Is this behaviour normal? A Kiwi vet would not dare make such a suggestion no matter how religious they might be, as they would be aware that a large number of customers would run a mile.

Brian Shanahan

Not in my experience with vets. I recently took the family cat over to Mulcair vets, with my father to get her ears operated on as they had grown cancerous, and no mention of god or "pray for her" or anything like that (except the obligatory "bless you" after sneezing).

Kiwi in IE

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Not in my experience with vets. I recently took the family cat over to Mulcair vets, with my father to get her ears operated on as they had grown cancerous, and no mention of god or "pray for her" or anything like that (except the obligatory "bless you" after sneezing).

No I didn't think so! I hate to think what might of happened if she had got pregnant before she was spade and I had taken her in there for an abortion! Just a one off loopy perhaps!

recedite

Two possibilities here.
1. The vet is a loon.
2.Your reputation has preceded you, the vet has already heard about little kiwi at school, and is now having a good laugh.

PTO

Why do people get so worked up about this stuff? So your vet is religious! So what?!? Live and let live! Your cats not gonna come home praising Allah!

Benny_Cake

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Even my local vet has a Catholic 'ethos' it seems. I was told to 'pray' for my cat and ask God to heal her. She will heal just fine with anti biotics alone I am sure, and subsequent feline and canine health issues will be dealt with at another clinic after that bizarre encounter. Is this behaviour normal? A Kiwi vet would not dare make such a suggestion no matter how religious they might be, as they would be aware that a large number of customers would run a mile.

Are you sure about that? Have you been to every vet in New Zealand? Vets are just like anyone else with their own personalities, last time we took our cat to the vet he spent about two minutes talking to her.

There are things worth getting outraged about, and there are things that aren't. I'd suggest that this falls into the second category.

Hotblack Desiato

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Even my local vet has a Catholic 'ethos' it seems. I was told to 'pray' for my cat and ask God to heal her.

Response 1: 'Oh. Thanks very much. Won't be needing the injection then. I trust you don't charge for purely spiritual advice.' then go to the less crazy vet


Response 2: 'But she's a Protestant cat.'

PTO wrote: »

Why do people get so worked up about this stuff? So your vet is religious! So what?!? Live and let live! Your cats not gonna come home praising Allah!

You seem to be the one getting worked up, if exclamation marks are any indication.

It's presumptious to just assume that other people share the same religious view as you. It's also pretty damn stupid given it's not a person we're discussing praying for here.

'Live and let live' - hah - we still live in a society where catholics feel it is OK to impose their values on everyone else. From sexual health to education to hospitals to the hours a pub can open on a Sunday.

Peregrinus

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Even my local vet has a Catholic 'ethos' it seems. I was told to 'pray' for my cat and ask God to heal her. She will heal just fine with anti biotics alone I am sure . . .

To be honest, if a vet said that to me, I'd take it he was hinting strongly that the cat would not be just fine with antibiotics alone, and that I should prepare myself for bereavement!

I Heart Internet

I get the feeling that Kiwi must be wearing a sign that says "annoy me about religion".

So your vet prays for cats. Smile and nod and bring him to another vet in future if you want.

When you come up against these situations, just remember, religion was not invented simply to annoy you. Get on with enjoying your life.

You protest too much - if this was a rom-com, you and the catholic church would end up getting married at the end.

magicbastarder

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I was told to 'pray' for my cat and ask God to heal her.

this begs the question - did you ask which god you should pray to?
surely a cat god would be the egyptian one, bast.

smacl

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I get the feeling that Kiwi must be wearing a sign that says "annoy me about religion".

So your vet prays for cats. Smile and nod and bring him to another vet in future if you want.

When you come up against these situations, just remember, religion was not invented simply to annoy you. Get on with enjoying your life.

You protest too much - if this was a rom-com, you and the catholic church would end up getting married at the end.

While I take Peregrinus' point that the vet could have been hinting at a non-treatable condition, it is also reasonable to expect a vet to limit their advice to the realms normal to veterinary practice. I'd be equally as annoyed if the vet were to prescribe a homeopathic remedy for example. Some do, but its not normal practice, and I for one wouldn't pay for it. If the cat was about to shuffle off this mortal coil, kick the bucket, join the choir invisible, etc... I'd also like the vet to say it in a rather less circumspect manner. e.g. Bad news, your cat is going to die, we cannot treat it, here are your options...

recedite

Don't worry kiwi.
At the great cattery in the sky, there is an endless supply of mice who are too fat to run.

Kiwi in IE

Benny_Cake wrote: »

There are things worth getting outraged about, and there are things that aren't. I'd suggest that this falls into the second category.

I'm not worked up or outraged as someone else suggested. I nearly fell about the floor laughing. I found it ridiculous, hilarious and bizarre.

Of course I havn't been to every vet in NZ. But in the 3 years I have lived here I have been subjected to far more religious talk from strangers and acquaintances that the preceding 33 years I lived in NZ. I find it bizarre that so many appear to make an immediate assumption that the whole of humanity must share their personal religious beliefs.

Kiwi in IE

Peregrinus wrote: »

To be honest, if a vet said that to me, I'd take it he was hinting strongly that the cat would not be just fine with antibiotics alone, and that I should prepare myself for bereavement!

No! Abscess on ear after fight. She will live.

Beruthiel

ninja900 wrote: »

Response 1: 'Oh. Thanks very much. Won't be needing the injection then. I trust you don't charge for purely spiritual advice.' then go to the less crazy vet


Response 2: 'But she's a Protestant cat.'

Response 3: Would that be the cat goddess Bastet Mr. Vet?

I Heart Internet

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

But in the 3 years I have lived here I have been subjected to far more religious talk from strangers and acquaintances that the preceding 33 years I lived in NZ. I find it bizarre that so many appear to make an immediate assumption that the whole of humanity must share their personal religious beliefs.

That's because Ireland is a different country to NZ. It's one of the many differences/quirks. Another is not being as good as NZ at rugby or Americas Cup sailing.

Vive la différence.

smacl

Beruthiel wrote: »

Response 3: Would that be the cat goddess Bastet Mr. Vet?

I could see that leading to a punch up

Vet: Have you tried prayer?
Kiwi: Bastet?
Vet: What did you call me?

lynski

'i am not sure which god she worships? do you know? or is there one you think has a stronger interest in cats then the others?'

Peregrinus

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

No! Abscess on ear after fight. She will live.

Well, thank God for that!

Peregrinus

smacl wrote: »

While I take Peregrinus' point that the vet could have been hinting at a non-treatable condition, it is also reasonable to expect a vet to limit their advice to the realms normal to veterinary practice . . .

I did intend the comment as a light-hearted one!

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Of course I havn't been to every vet in NZ. But in the 3 years I have lived here I have been subjected to far more religious talk from strangers and acquaintances that the preceding 33 years I lived in NZ. I find it bizarre that so many appear to make an immediate assumption that the whole of humanity must share their personal religious beliefs.

Whereas an Irish person moving to New Zealand might find it bizarre that nobody ever says anything about religion. Is referring to religion in New Zealand a bit like referring to sex was in Ireland when I was a chizler?

I don't think people who talk to you about religion are assuming that you share their personal religious beliefs. They just assume that you're not affronted by references to religion in everyday speech. It's an understandable mistake; they're not to know that you're a psychic cripple as a result of your repressed New Zealand upbringing.

smacl

Peregrinus wrote: »

I did intend the comment as a light-hearted one!

As did I

Cork boy 55

I am convinced the birds in my Garden view me as a God figure,
I once had a conversation(in whistling format) with a blackbird.

Benny_Cake

I Heart Internet wrote: »

That's because Ireland is a different country to NZ. It's one of the many differences/quirks. Another is not being as good as NZ at rugby or Americas Cup sailing.

Vive la différence.

On the plus side, we do have central heating here. What's with that NZ? Don't tell me it's because your winters aren't cold because I know that's a lie.

I love New Zealand and would love to go back, but never again in July!

IvySlayer

God: I am your Lord, the Almigh....

Cat: Feed meh!

Kiwi in IE

Benny_Cake wrote: »

On the plus side, we do have central heating here. What's with that NZ? Don't tell me it's because your winters aren't cold because I know that's a lie.

I love New Zealand and would love to go back, but never again in July!

I could not agree more! Central heating almost makes up for the intrusive religion! I think even the cat would agree with that, despite her traumatic experience at the vet. :pac: I don't think she be too keen to give up her spot by the Stanley cooker for the sake of a few silly prayers.

I think NZ has some bizarre illusion that we are a warm, tropical country despite the climate being pretty similar to here.

I have issues with going back now Little Kiwi is in school. It's too far to go home for 2 weeks but there is no way on earth I'm going back in July or August during the summer holiday. People often ask how I find the winters since I come from a 'warmer' climate. With central heating and double glazing I don't even really notice its winter until I go outside.

Galvasean

PTO wrote: »

Why do people get so worked up about this stuff? So your vet is religious! So what?!? Live and let live! Your cats not gonna come home praising Allah!

Cats only worship the Pope. hence Cat-licks.

Animord

Hi Kiwi, I have followed your posts here with interest as I am Irish with dual NZ citizenship. I was brought up (here) in a totally non-religious family, I don't say atheist because the subject simply never came up. (It is possible!)

Your posts as an outsider have made me realise how much religion is ingrained in this country but I do think you are hyper-sensitive about religious stuff (I know you are partly joking about the cat). But I often feel that a lot of the religious expressions in this country are as much verbal shorthand as anything else. For instance, a friend of mine whose brother was dying recently asked to pray that he went quickly. I don't for a moment think that she actually thought that I was about to go down on my knees, but I take it more as an expression - she hoped he would go quickly, and for her sake I did too.

In the same way that when I touch wood, I am perfectly well aware that the wood nymphs that I am appeasing aren't going to do much for me, but it is a way of telling the other person that I care about something without actually spelling it out.

You are, in my opinion, absolutely right to be outraged about a lot of the stuff that goes on here, but you might find Ireland a more relaxing place if you let some of the verbal stuff go...

PS New Zealand is a stunningly beautiful country but I thought I was going to freeze to death when I lived there and I was reasonably far north, but dear god, it was cold in winter. Still, stunning place and everyone should go there.

recedite

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Abscess on ear after fight.

She was an aggressive atheist cat all along then.

Brian Shanahan

recedite wrote: »

She was an aggressive atheist cat all along then.

All cats are atheist, they are too narcissistic to conceive of a being greater than themselves.

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

She was an aggressive atheist cat all along then.

Not at all - a martyr for the faith!

Kiwi in IE

Animord wrote: »

Hi Kiwi, I have followed your posts here with interest as I am Irish with dual NZ citizenship. I was brought up (here) in a totally non-religious family, I don't say atheist because the subject simply never came up. (It is possible!)

Your posts as an outsider have made me realise how much religion is ingrained in this country but I do think you are hyper-sensitive about religious stuff (I know you are partly joking about the cat). But I often feel that a lot of the religious expressions in this country are as much verbal shorthand as anything else. For instance, a friend of mine whose brother was dying recently asked to pray that he went quickly. I don't for a moment think that she actually thought that I was about to go down on my knees, but I take it more as an expression - she hoped he would go quickly, and for her sake I did too.

In the same way that when I touch wood, I am perfectly well aware that the wood nymphs that I am appeasing aren't going to do much for me, but it is a way of telling the other person that I care about something without actually spelling it out.

You are, in my opinion, absolutely right to be outraged about a lot of the stuff that goes on here, but you might find Ireland a more relaxing place if you let some of the verbal stuff go...

PS New Zealand is a stunningly beautiful country but I thought I was going to freeze to death when I lived there and I was reasonably far north, but dear god, it was cold in winter. Still, stunning place and everyone should go there.

Hi Animord,

My family were pretty much the same. Religion never came up with us either. And believe it or not I never had a problem with religion, or even called myself atheist before I moved here.

You are probably right I do need to just ignore it. It does intrude on people's lives though and it is quite a big, unexpected culture shock coming from a secular country. I find the education situation especially hard to cope with as the mother of a 5 year old. Without the impact on education and women's rights, I could probably could just about ignore it.

Religion is the only complaint I have about the country. Apart from that I am more than happy to live here with central heating in my house!

Kiwi in IE

recedite wrote: »

She was an aggressive atheist cat all along then.

Nope! The fight that resulted in the abscess was part of a religious conflict.

Peregrinus

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Nope! The fight that resulted in the abscess was part of a religious conflict.

Necessarily so, since as we all know religion is at the root of all conflicts!

Kiwi in IE

The conflict may have occurred because promiscuity and fornication are against her beliefs.

Peregrinus

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

The conflict may have occurred because promiscuity and fornication are against her beliefs.

Knowing what I know of cats, that strikes me as wildy unlikely.

Animord

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

You are probably right I do need to just ignore it.

Don't ignore all of it, fighting it is the only way it will ever change. But I worry for your sanity :pac:

TwoShedsJackson

Not sure why the vet went to all the bother of qualifying to be a vet if a bit of an oul pray would do the trick.

gaynorvader

It may sound weird but being non-religious is the same as being an atheist. Atheism is just the absence of belief in any god. Though it has been used as meaning the belief that there is no god that I'm afraid of it going the way of "literally".

Dades

gaynorvader wrote: »

It may sound weird but being non-religious is the same as being an atheist. Atheism is just the absence of belief in any god. Though it has been used as meaning the belief that there is no god that I'm afraid of it going the way of "literally".

Not so sure. You can claim to be non-religious whilst being say, a deist, for example.

Animord

gaynorvader wrote: »

It may sound weird but being non-religious is the same as being an atheist. Atheism is just the absence of belief in any god. Though it has been used as meaning the belief that there is no god that I'm afraid of it going the way of "literally".

Of course it is. Technically we were all athiests, but when no one has any interest in the subject then there is no need of a label, was my point really.

gaynorvader

Dades wrote: »

Not so sure. You can claim to be non-religious whilst being say, a deist, for example.

Good point.

SpaceTime

I think a lot of it can be 'turn of phrase', especially for older people / more rural types. There's a lot of phrases that are more just worked into the language than religious, especially where some awkward situation comes up involving death / illness.

I found it actually a lot more shocking in the US to be perfectly honest. I turned up at people's houses and got forced to say grace before meals and had random preachers on streets threaten to save my soul.

I also found that some people couldn't understand how you could not be religious at all.

I find in England too they can chuck in the odd really religious thing into phrases too like "God Bless" instead of "Bye".

...

The Irish education system's ridiculous though at primary and secondary level anyway as it's all run by religious orders.

However, in most other aspects of life that's not the case at all. Even in nominally religious hospitals, I haven't found them THAT in your face to be quite honest.

...

As for the vet. I have to say I haven't encountered one like that in my many years here!
Our vet's just a complete cat-lover and spends all her time meowing and ooooing and awwwing over your cat. The cat thinks she's the best thing since sliced bread and bounds out to greet her when we bring him!

gaynorvader

SpaceTime wrote: »

I think a lot of it can be 'turn of phrase', especially for older people / more rural types. There's a lot of phrases that are more just worked into the language than religious, especially where some awkward situation comes up involving death / illness.

I found it actually a lot more shocking in the US to be perfectly honest. I turned up at people's houses and got forced to say grace before meals and had random preachers on streets threaten to save my soul.

I also found that some people couldn't understand how you could not be religious at all.

I find in England too they can chuck in the odd really religious thing into phrases too like "God Bless" instead of "Bye".

...

The Irish education system's ridiculous though at primary and secondary level anyway as it's all run by religious orders.

However, in most other aspects of life that's not the case at all. Even in nominally religious hospitals, I haven't found them THAT in your face to be quite honest.

...

As for the vet. I have to say I haven't encountered one like that in my many years here!
Our vet's just a complete cat-lover and spends all her time meowing and ooooing and awwwing over your cat. The cat thinks she's the best thing since sliced bread and bounds out to greet her when we bring him!

What is it about sliced bread? Shouldn't it be the best thing since the silicon chip?

I Heart Internet

SpaceTime wrote: »

I find in England too they can chuck in the odd really religious thing into phrases too like "God Bless" instead of "Bye".

Is this really a problem for you?

SpaceTime

gaynorvader wrote: »

What is it about sliced bread? Shouldn't it be the best thing since the silicon chip?

Yeah, but silicon chips don't really go with toasted cheese.

SpaceTime

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Is this really a problem for you?

No, I am pointing out that it's not necessarily someone trying to actually bless you or something like that it's just a turn of phrase.

Please read post in context

I Heart Internet

SpaceTime wrote: »

No, I am pointing out that it's not necessarily someone trying to actually bless you or something like that it's just a turn of phrase.

Please read post in context

Forgive me. I read it as a further example of the American situations which you found shocking.

From my experienc eof living in the UK, I found that "God Bless" was a much rarer parting that things like "See ya later, Duck"

Hotblack Desiato

As I said in another thread here recently Kiwi, you'd really have to have grown up here in the 70s/80s (and most of it was still around in the 90s) to make sense of this sort of thing.

There was an excellent documentary series produced some years ago about the relationship between the RCC and late 20th-century Irish society. Topics addressed include the role of women, the sometimes strained relations between the clergy and the laity, rural isolation, the position of the hierarchy, changing sexual mores, censorship, and marital breakdown in a pre-divorce society.

You can buy the DVDs here - most enlightening viewing even for those of us who grew up in this environment.

SpaceTime

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Forgive me. I read it as a further example of the American situations which you found shocking.

From my experienc eof living in the UK, I found that "God Bless" was a much rarer parting that things like "See ya later, Duck"

Depends where you are. I keep hearing it from certain phone-in radio show hosts.

robindch

ninja900 wrote: »

There was an excellent documentary series produced some years ago about the relationship between the RCC and late 20th-century Irish society. Topics addressed include the role of women, the sometimes strained relations between the clergy and the laity, rural isolation, the position of the hierarchy, changing sexual mores, censorship, and marital breakdown in a pre-divorce society.

There's also this 1967 film which satirizes a fictional Potato Republic populated by an urbanized peasantry beneath the heel of an obscurantist clerical dictatorship. The film efficiently conveys the colors of that simplistic, metaphorical time and place, so it's shot in black and white, separated by a strictly limited number of shades of gray:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Road_to_Dublin_(film)

Obliq

SpaceTime wrote: »

I think a lot of it can be 'turn of phrase', especially for older people / more rural types. There's a lot of phrases that are more just worked into the language than religious, especially where some awkward situation comes up ....

I think it's really interesting that in our religious country, we don't have equivalent non-religious expressions. I was only thinking about this on Sunday on the way back from Cork. I'd stopped to get petrol in Buttevant in my Clare car covered in Clare flags (flying defiantly in the face of the multidude of Cork supporters) and was thoroughly questioned by the cashier as to my reasons for being in their county - "Did you have a nice trip? - Shopping, was it? For the weekend?" and when I answered "Nope - looking after my sick aunt for the week", he nearly fell over himself with the "Ah, God bless you", "God bless her and save her", etc.
For the next few miles, I wondered what catch phrase would trip off my tongue to indicate the same wishes....and came up with nothing so automatic to us Irish as a blessing from god. Any thoughts on equivalent atheist "best hope for her/his health" or "well done for caring" phrases?