NZ v. SA, match preview & thread, Sat 14 Sep, 0835 Irish time

P.Walnuts

Swiwi. wrote: »

Barely mentioned in the press. All the talk is about BDP cards. This illustrates my point about anti-NZ bias. Why don't you read the NZ press, instead of imagining things? Or if you don't want to do that, at least don't surmise. NZ fans are just as annoyed as anyone else that the game was ruined as a spectacle.

How would what's written in the press reflect what the average fan thinks?

Morf

Swiwi. wrote: »

Barely mentioned in the press. All the talk is about BDP cards. This illustrates my point about anti-NZ bias. Why don't you read the NZ press, instead of imagining things? Or if you don't want to do that, at least don't surmise. NZ fans are just as annoyed as anyone else that the game was ruined as a spectacle.

For someone who says they aren't as zealous as other NZ fans you are very precious about any criticism of them.

They are the best. The bring in a huge amount of money and interest into the game. They do however have (seemingly) undue influence and get more "luck" than they need.

I would go read 100 facebook or youtube comments from NZ fans but that is genuinely soul-destroying so you'll just have to accept I'm pulling my imaginings out of my bum.

Swiwi.

Morf wrote: »

For someone who says they aren't as zealous as other NZ fans you are very precious about any criticism of them.

They are the best. The bring in a huge amount of money and interest into the game. They do however have (seemingly) undue influence and get more "luck" than they need.

I would go read 100 facebook or youtube comments from NZ fans but that is genuinely soul-destroying so you'll just have to accept I'm pulling my imaginings out of my bum.

I agree that a lot of NZ fans are ignorant & obnoxious. No worse than a lot of SA fans. And from my time in Ireland, a handful of Munster fans especially can be just as bad. At the end of the day, though, you've made an assumption that isn't borne out in general by the few blogs I've troubled myself to read.

Howard Juneau

Swiwi. wrote: »

I agree that a lot of NZ fans are ignorant & obnoxious. No worse than a lot of SA fans. And from my time in Ireland, a handful of Munster fans especially can be just as bad. At the end of the day, though, you've made an assumption that isn't borne out in general by the few blogs I've troubled myself to read.

Hey! As a Munster man I resemble that remark!

Swiwi.

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Hey! As a Munster man I resemble that remark!

You're fine dude! But I can think of at least 2 rabid Munster supporters on this forum that don't exactly ingratiate themselves to the other provinces. I lived in Cork for 2.5 years, and there are some very knowledgeable Munster fans around. But there is definitely a contingent that can't be reasoned with come hell or high water. And it's no different with Kiwi supporters either. Or SA. I just don't like tarring everyone with the same brush.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Plenty of douchebag fans of every team. Not team has any more or less than another

Although there does seem to be a culture of booing that I really dislike at NZ games

Swiwi.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Plenty of douchebag fans of every team. Not team has any more or less than another

Although there does seem to be a culture of booing that I really dislike at NZ games

Totally agree. NZ crowds suck in general. There is none of the singing, chanting you get in Europe. Just stony silence, or booing, or "All Blacks, All Blacks". The first time I went to a game in Ireland, and there was silence for the kicker it was pretty cool.

Morf

Swiwi. wrote: »

I agree that a lot of NZ fans are ignorant & obnoxious. No worse than a lot of SA fans. And from my time in Ireland, a handful of Munster fans especially can be just as bad. At the end of the day, though, you've made an assumption that isn't borne out in general by the few blogs I've troubled myself to read.

If the Boks were number 1 in the rankings I'd be absolutely sick of them pretty quickly too. The Wallabies too, Australians are awful winners.

My main point is and I'll make my point using Super XV teams, the best teams don't really need to get more than their share of decisions. The Crusaders get them, the Bulls at home get them, the Reds have gotten them and the Chiefs seem to be getting more than before Wayne Smith was there.

Morf

Swiwi. wrote: »

Totally agree. NZ crowds suck in general. There is none of the singing, chanting you get in Europe. Just stony silence, or booing, or "All Blacks, All Blacks". The first time I went to a game in Ireland, and there was silence for the kicker it was pretty cool.

The cowbells in Hamilton are one of the least annoying. That says something.

Swiwi.

Morf wrote: »

If the Boks were number 1 in the rankings I'd be absolutely sick of them pretty quickly too. The Wallabies too, Australians are awful winners.

My main point is and I'll make my point using Super XV teams, the best teams don't really need to get more than their share of decisions. The Crusaders get them, the Bulls at home get them, the Reds have gotten them and the Chiefs seem to be getting more than before Wayne Smith was there.

I'm sure you could prove that better teams get more of the rub of the green. I don't disagree. However, the idea that the IRB sat round a table and said we are going to systematically favour NZ is non-sensical.

Like if NZ played Ireland in soccer, I would expect Ireland to get more of the 50/50 calls, it's just the way sport unfortunately works. However, I don't think Poite was favouring NZ consistently thru the match, he just had a shocker with the YC call.

astonaidan

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Did he get a yellow for that? Christ! And to think nobody on this thread spotted it or mentioned it yesterday

Hadnt read the thread as well I was still watching the game, sorry for having an opinion

Howard Juneau

astonaidan wrote: »

Hadnt read the thread as well I was still watching the game, sorry for having an opinion

I was extracting the urine

Morf

Swiwi. wrote: »

I'm sure you could prove that better teams get more of the rub of the green. I don't disagree. However, the idea that the IRB sat round a table and said we are going to systematically favour NZ is non-sensical.

Like if NZ played Ireland in soccer, I would expect Ireland to get more of the 50/50 calls, it's just the way sport unfortunately works. However, I don't think Poite was favouring NZ consistently thru the match, he just had a shocker with the YC call.

I guess it comes down to envy. I wish the IRFU were half as organised as NZRU. It's hard to hate the team itself. They come across as decent chaps. It does become magnified where the team that has been consistently dominant "seem" to get favouritism. Some of it is unintentional from refs and some is NZRU administrators lobbying for the best for their interests.

Poite is just a consistently poor referee. Leinster were on the end of it Rabo Final 2012.

Swiwi.

Morf wrote: »

I guess it comes down to envy. I wish the IRFU were half as organised as NZRU. It's hard to hate the team itself. They come across as decent chaps. It does become magnified where the team that has been consistently dominant "seem" to get favouritism. Some of it is unintentional from refs and some is NZRU administrators lobbying for the best for their interests.

Poite is just a consistently poor referee. Leinster were on the end of it Rabo Final 2012.

AFAIK, the main thing the NZRFU has lobbied for (unsuccessfully) is equal gate takings. A sold out Twickenham is worth far more to the RFU than a sold out Eden Park is to the NZRFU. Not surprisingly, the Northern Unions haven't taken up this idea, and I don't blame them. Most of the Kiwi players are pretty decent chaps, not too sure about Nonu, but McCaw, Carter etc do a lot of good stuff off the field.

I prefer Garces to Poite, I think he is the best French ref. I don't think the standard of reffing worldwide is great at the moment.

The NZRFU had to get their act together, they almost lost the ABs to a mickey mouse competition when the game turned professional, and then with so many Kiwi players always being the targets of NH and now Japanese clubs they have worked pretty hard. They get a lot of shìt from the NZ public, but I think they do pretty well all things considered.

I don't know enough about the IRFU to comment, but I do know that the founding NH unions are viewed as ultra-conservative by the NZRFU, I think it was one of the Celtic Unions that almost vetoed the first RWC in 1987. I guess depending on what happens to the HEC cup, and also if more Irish players follow Sexton's lead and sign for French clubs, then it could test the IRFU's leadership a lot.

Klunk_NZ

Swiwi. wrote: »

Barely mentioned in the press. All the talk is about BDP cards. This illustrates my point about anti-NZ bias. Why don't you read the NZ press, instead of imagining things? Or if you don't want to do that, at least don't surmise. NZ fans are just as annoyed as anyone else that the game was ruined as a spectacle.

Barely a mention at all, don't appreciate words being put in my mouth.

Being a personal friend of Kez I did give him some stick for dropping the hatrick pass over the line. He would have been the 1st All Black to score a hatrick against SA.

danthefan

Tbf anyone who watched the game would have heard the NZ commentators when BdP was carded, they were incredulous. Not one thought it was even a penalty.

danthefan

The red card has been officially rescinded.

Swiwi.

Now that is a red card tackle...

Sherlock The Holmie

Swiwi.

Hmmm. Have to say this falls into the same category, good hit from Palu, I would have thought.

P.Walnuts

Swiwi. wrote: »

Hmmm. Have to say this falls into the same category, good hit from Palu, I would have thought.

Wouldn't say same category, but seemed a harsh yellow alright. Palu's shoulder did come pretty close to the neck area which is what the ref saw I think

Swiwi.

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Wouldn't say same category, but seemed a harsh yellow alright. Palu's shoulder did come pretty close to the neck area which is what the ref saw I think

I think it should be mandatory for TMO to review such calls, it should take 2s to say arms or no arms, and in both cases Du Plessis & Palu would have remained on the field.

Tox56

Yeah Palu is unlucky the way Kearney bounced it looked like he used no arms (I do think he tried to wrap), but his shoulder did appear to contact Kearney's chin, so there is grounds for a high tackle. A harsh yellow but more understandable than the Bismark tackle

P.Walnuts

Swiwi. wrote: »

I think it should be mandatory for TMO to review such calls, it should take 2s to say arms or no arms, and in both cases Du Plessis & Palu would have remained on the field.

Could be completely wrong but I don't think a ref could check a tackle with the TMO back then?

Poite had that option and refused it, which is entirely baffling

Jacovs

Something similar happened in last night's WP vs Griquas game, but no video clip to show yet. Gerhard van den Heever running with the ball in left arm, right arm down his side clenched in a fist, someone went in low to tackle him and his fist hit the guy in the face. Guy was knocked out for a few seconds and then a yellow card was issued after referee asked the TMO.

Swiwi.

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Could be completely wrong but I don't think a ref could check a tackle with the TMO back then?

Poite had that option and refused it, which is entirely baffling

No, they couldn't back then. I expect Poite to be rather trigger-happy with the TMO in the future, he might be at risk of losing his spot on the elite panel, all because he was too trusting in his own ability and not asking the TMO...especially as he went to the TMO anyway about the ensuing fracas.

Jacovs

The mentioned Gerhard van den Heever "punch".

http://www.sport24.co.za/Multimedia/Rugby/Currie-Cup/Van-den-Heever-punch-20130923

Article about it:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/CurrieCup/Worst-TMO-call-in-history-20130923

Swiwi.

Jacovs wrote: »

The mentioned Gerhard van den Heever "punch".

http://www.sport24.co.za/Multimedia/Rugby/Currie-Cup/Van-den-Heever-punch-20130923

Article about it:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/CurrieCup/Worst-TMO-call-in-history-20130923

Hmmm. Dodgy alright. It's very hard to think he was throwing a punch while running. Sean Veldsman is another suspect TMO at times.

danthefan

Looking at the video, that is a clear accident.

Jacovs

Looked like he was just bracing for impact. Very hard to brace for impact with a limp wrist and open hand id say.