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Child Protection.....has society gone over the top in its desire to protect children?

  • 11-09-2013 09:30PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭


    Reading the Micheal Le Vell thread and others that have cropped up here over time, I really do think we as a society have become paranoid and hysterical over child safety.

    The Le Vell demonstrates how unwilling we are to accept that people can be falsely accused of things, that children can and do lie and/or make mistakes, that not guilty verdicts can genuinely mean not guilty.

    I have seen threads where women are afraid to let their sons near male loos on their own or where the idea of children being anywhere adult men is enough to cause panic attacks.


    I have seen male posters say they would be afraid to go near a child that wasn't their own.

    Have we gone over the top with regard to child safety?


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    Society has just became more fearful. I certanly would be wary of going near a child even it it was clearly lost or in distress incase a passer by thought I was up to something.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Mickey H


    There is media-induced terror and paranoia re paedophilia, yes. As in, it can be looked for/found when it's not there.

    Agreed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    I made a similar thread not so long ago. All this think of the children stuff has gone mad altogether and its not just to do with paedophiles.

    If you look back at photos of London in the early 1900's there are children playing on the street everywhere . unattended. Now in the backarse of Ireland where traditionally everyone looked out for each other people are afraid to let children play outside in their own garden.

    I suppose society is more fragmented now and people dont know each other as much, also back in the day children were plentiful and many died young. Now if a child dies in an accident or gets murdered people tend to think of it as 'that lad had at least another 80 years left' instead of 'some other thing could just easily have killed him next week'

    If one kid falls off a trampoline or some other contraption there are immediately calls to ban the said contraption. Even if someone decides to dig a hole on their own land and a child falls into it, the person who dug the hole would be liable. It really is mad. I can see someday I will have to give up my car and be condemned to a Google driverless car on the off chance I might someday run down a child


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    I believe the children are our future.

    Teach them well and let them lead the way.

    Show them all the beauty they possess inside.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭DK man


    Young 16 year old school girls are not allowed to do work experience in crèches until they have been Garda vetted - which takes @16 weeks!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 811 ✭✭✭cassid


    Society needs to protect children and all who are vulnerable

    But it should also protect "alleged perpetrators" and identies should not be revealed until a verdict is given.

    Le Veil will now always be associated with this even, though he has been declared innocent. An innocent verdict won't stop the idle chatter, "there's no smoke bla bla bla"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    There is media-induced terror and paranoia re paedophilia, yes. As in, it can be looked for/found when it's not there.

    Yes that's certainly part of it.

    I'd imagine the Clerical Abuse scandal may have added to it too.
    Mint Sauce wrote: »
    Society has just became more fearful. I certanly would be wary of going near a child even it it was clearly lost or in distress incase a passer by thought I was up to something.

    I wonder why we are so much more fearful though?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    cassid wrote: »
    Society needs to protect children and all who are vulnerable

    But it should also protect "alleged perpetrators" and identies should not be revealed until a verdict is given.

    Le Veil will now always be associated with this even, though he has been declared innocent. An innocent verdict won't stop the idle chatter, "there's no smoke bla bla bla"

    Of course we have a duty of protection and rightly so.

    I just wonder if we overdo it sometimes?

    I agree with total amonimity on all sides of an accusation except for the accused if found guilty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    The accused should definitely have anonymity. The way that guy's name was dragged through the mud as if he was guilty, before the verdict was even reached, is disgusting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Yes and no.

    All perspective has been lost.

    Not just with pedophilia. With everything.

    Reporting child abuse has become in some cases a war of vindictiveness. People using kids and the system like this, whether spite towards a neighbour (yes have seen this happen) or in custody battles, or in family feuds, should be prosecuted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Child protection isn't the issue; it's ignorance of what actually constitutes a valid child welfare concern.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Some rules brought in by companies are just discriminating.
    A male is forced to move if an unaccompanied minor is seated next to him as all males have the potential to be sex offenders. Imagine the uproar if the word male was black, female etc. Sure only a few weeks ago a father was detained by the police in England because he was walking with his son and someone just assumed he was a sex predator


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Some rules brought in by companies are just discriminating.
    A male is forced to move if an unaccompanied minor is seated next to him as all males have the potential to be sex offenders. Imagine the uproar if the word male was black, female etc. Sure only a few weeks ago a father was detained by the police in England because he was walking with his son and someone just assumed he was a sex predator
    I don't think he was detained, just stopped and questioned, but yes I agree.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Jester252 wrote: »
    A male is forced to move if an unaccompanied minor is seated next to him as all males have the potential to be sex offenders.
    Where? On trains etc? How can that be enforced? Is it a case that if the ticket inspector sees a man sitting down next to a child, the rule is that the ticket inspector has to tell the man to move to another seat?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Where? On trains etc? How can that be enforced? Is it a case that if the ticket inspector sees a man sitting down next to a child, the rule is that the ticket inspector has to tell the man to move to another seat?

    Some airplanes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Some airplanes.
    Crikey. But can it always be ascertained that the man is not the child's father/guardian?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Crikey. But can it always be ascertained that the man is not the child's father/guardian?

    Yes because when you buy the ticket, you make special arrangements for a minor travelling alone.

    It wouldn't suprise me if up the road they won't let minors travel unaccompanied at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Yes because when you buy the ticket, you make special arrangements for a minor travelling alone.

    It wouldn't suprise me if up the road they won't let minors travel unaccompanied at all.

    I'm surprised they let it happen now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭KilOit


    Couldn't agree more, it's gotten totally out of hand

    op should check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunt_(2012_film) great film
    that is similar to what your saying


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Yes because when you buy the ticket, you make special arrangements for a minor travelling alone.
    Jesus. This is actually a written rule by some airlines?

    What is thought can be done to the child by the man in front of all the other passengers and the staff?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    KilOit wrote: »
    Couldn't agree more, it's gotten totally out of hand

    op should check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunt_(2012_film) great film
    that is similar to what your saying

    I keep meaning to watch that actually.

    Is it good?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    I generally think it has gone too far but then at times you are reminded of the sort of monsters out there and you reconsider.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2417572/Geoffrey-Portway-dungeon-First-pictures-torture-dungeon-British-man-planned-rape-murder-eat-children-beneath-Massachusetts-house.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Jesus. This is actually a written rule by some airlines?

    What is thought can be done to the child by the man in front of all the other passengers and the staff?

    http://jezebel.com/5934753/should-airlines-be-allowed-to-forbid-men-from-sitting-next-to-unaccompanied-minors


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    woodoo wrote: »
    I generally think it has gone too far but then at times you are reminded of the sort of monsters out there and you reconsider.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2417572/Geoffrey-Portway-dungeon-First-pictures-torture-dungeon-British-man-planned-rape-murder-eat-children-beneath-Massachusetts-house.html

    :eek:

    That's the most horrific thing I've ever read!!!

    Still though I don't know that we allow should monsters like this to influence our ideas about children and adults in general.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    woodoo wrote: »
    I generally think it has gone too far but then at times you are reminded of the sort of monsters out there and you reconsider.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2417572/Geoffrey-Portway-dungeon-First-pictures-torture-dungeon-British-man-planned-rape-murder-eat-children-beneath-Massachusetts-house.html
    Vomit.

    Monsters have always existed though - and children today are far safer than they ever were. In some societies though, they are still treated appallingly.
    Christ alive. And they say "Predictably" Reddit thinks it's gender discrimination, as if there's something kinda flawed about thinking so. If I were a man, I'd be so livid over that rule. And women could never ever be child molesters of course.
    I find Jezebel horribly man-hating at times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Vomit.

    Monsters have always existed though - and children today are far safer than they ever were. In some societies though, they are still treated appallingly.

    Christ alive. And they say "Predictably" Reddit thinks it's gender discrimination, as if there's something kinda flawed about thinking so. If I were a man, I'd be so livid over that rule. And women could never ever be child molesters of course.
    I find Jezebel horribly man-hating at times.

    Personally sending a minor unaccompanied is not a choice I would make.

    It's not that women can never be a molestor its statistically much higher for men. Airlines want to avoid lawsuits. It could be insurance companies dictating the policy.

    But yes I can see how a plane, long haul could be a perfect environment for a predator.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Personally sending a minor unaccompanied is not a choice I would make.
    Yeh, me neither.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,470 ✭✭✭Kiwi_knock


    Having done some volunteering with children over the summer, I have seen the lack of men volunteering in the same activities. I really hope men are not avoiding volunteering with kids for fear of being labelled a paedophile. I was volunteering in a very structured environment, everyone had undergone child protection training and had been Garda vetted. The two to one policy or one to many policy is really stressed, so as a male adult I would have no issue approaching or being around a child for fear of being labelled a paedophile. I really hope other males do not feel society is forcing them to avoid being friendly to children, it would be a real shame.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭KilOit


    I keep meaning to watch that actually.

    Is it good?

    it's an amazing movie, if you don't mind reading subtitles you should give it a bash.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Kiwi_knock wrote: »
    Having done some volunteering with children over the summer, I have seen the lack of men volunteering in the same activities. I really hope men are not avoiding volunteering with kids for fear of being labelled a paedophile. I was volunteering in a very structured environment, everyone had undergone child protection training and had been Garda vetted. The two to one policy or one to many policy is really stressed, so as a male adult I would have no issue approaching or being around a child for fear of being labelled a paedophile. I really hope other males do not feel society is forcing them to avoid being friendly to children, it would be a real shame.

    That is most certainly happening already.


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