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Child Item

Child Protection.....has society gone over the top in its desire to protect children?

AudreyHepburn

Reading the Micheal Le Vell thread and others that have cropped up here over time, I really do think we as a society have become paranoid and hysterical over child safety.

The Le Vell demonstrates how unwilling we are to accept that people can be falsely accused of things, that children can and do lie and/or make mistakes, that not guilty verdicts can genuinely mean not guilty.

I have seen threads where women are afraid to let their sons near male loos on their own or where the idea of children being anywhere adult men is enough to cause panic attacks.

I have seen male posters say they would be afraid to go near a child that wasn't their own.

Have we gone over the top with regard to child safety?

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Sh1tbag OToole

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yeh, me neither.

Feck it. Thats more of it now

I was sent several times as a young lad and it was an experience.You are well minded, no chance for you to escape but still a welcome break from the parents and a first taste of independence. Would hate to have missed out due to modern overcautiousness

Femme_Fatale

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Feck it. Thats more of it now

I was sent several times as a young lad and it was an experience.You are well minded, no chance for you to escape but still a welcome break from the parents and a first taste of independence. Would hate to have missed out due to modern overcautiousness

Well I mean more specifically small children, not pre-teens/teens. Not because I think great harm will come to them, but I just wouldn't like the idea of them being alone; might be scary for them.

Sh1tbag OToole

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Well I mean more specifically small children, not pre-teens/teens. Not because I think great harm will come to them, but I just wouldn't like the idea of them being alone; might be scary for them.

First time I went I was 6 maybe 7. I thought it was good fun. Maybe its not for all kids though

hatrickpatrick

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703779704576073752925629440.html

My name is URL

clairefontaine wrote: »

http://jezebel.com/5934753/should-airlines-be-allowed-to-forbid-men-from-sitting-next-to-unaccompanied-minors

Some of the responses there make me just want to turn off the computer and go live in the hills

As the father of a young (3 1/2 y.o.) daughter, I applaud this policy. It's a case of Schröedinger's molester here.

emily wainwright

The whole thing with protecting children has gone over the top. There are men who won't be in a room on their own with their nephews.

Mary28

The number of dirtbags that came near me as a child I don't think You can be too cautious. One in four is a pretty high ratio . I'd rather not risk anything with my own kids.

My name is URL

Mary28 wrote: »

The number of dirtbags that came near me as a child I don't think You can be too cautious. One in four is a pretty high ratio . I'd rather not risk anything with my own kids.

Where are you getting the 'one in four' thing from? One in 4 men are child abusers? =/

I can't know what happened to you as a kid, and your views and opinions may well make sense to you depending on your own experiences, but you certainly can be too cautious.. you can easily instil an irrational fear and distrust of males in your kids.. and that could be something which stays with them and has a negative effect on them and their own relationships for life.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

The weird thing is that I essentially agree here but for some reason I kinda get the changing nappies being restricted to being done by females only purely on the grounds of female child sexual abuse is statistically so so small. Now when it comes to mental and physical abuse these statistics start to become more gender neutral so in my opinion changes things back then when it comes to basically everything else.

That film quoted above seems like a good yet intense watch, might check it out, it seems so bloody sad.

Generally speaking I would agree that society has gone too far in the 'mollycoddling' of children to the point of lunacy.

I was speaking to a lady recently from an organisation (don't want to give any more details) and she told me she was at a child custody case a number of weeks ago and said the presiding (male) judge was of the opinion that a child under the age of 3 should not be away from its mother and spend any night with the father on its own.
#I'm fully aware this is as anecdotal as it gets and this is a fairly anonymous posting site but all I can say honestly this is what she told me#

onerone

As a man who enjoys the finer things in life I think its sick that I'm called a pervert or weirdo when the women have cute names like cougar or gerbil. sick of it!

cuckoo

I'd agree that there's a lot more hysteria around the issue of child abuse.

The local swimming pool/gym was renovated a few years ago and I went for a look around when thinking of joining. The showers for the swimming part are in the open, beside the pool - and visible from the reception area and outside the building. When I commented that it was a little bit....public, the staff response was "child protection".

The women's changing rooms for the gym have a shower room, no cubicles, no partitions....nothing. Why? "child protection".

So now when I'm washing my hair after a swim I can wave at people waiting for the number 15 bus on Rathmines road, not sure how that's protecting children but, well, 'hi bus people'.

Knasher

I remember hearing about a court case in the UK against a creche, where a young child wandered away and drowned in a pond. A brick layer had seen the toddler walking alone but didn't intervene for fear of being spotted and accused of being a paedophile.

I think most men could probably relate to that builder, there was a study recently that found that 75% of men wouldn't help a child in distress for fear of what it would look like to others, 25% would ignore the child completely while 50% would look for a woman to help.

MadsL

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'm surprised they let it happen now.

What?

You do realise not everyone lives in the same country as their ex.

My daughter has travelled internationally alone from the age of 14 and transatlantically twice now alone, inlcuding side trips at the age of 16 up to cousins via Las Vegas (change planes)

It is not the age but the child, she's equipped with steel toe doc martens and instructions

Most perverts would need protection from her.

Zen65

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

That's the most horrific thing I've ever read!!!

The guy seems especially vile, but (if I read it correctly) he did not actually hurt anyone. He may simply have been a fantasist who bought these bits of equipment to make his fantasies seem more real to him. Yet he is treated in the article as if he was a paedo murderer. To my mind his crime is distributing paedo images, but I may have missed something when I read the story.

I'm all in favour of punishing people who distribute kiddie porn.

Murderers actually get an easier time of it, which I can never understand. The guy who is suspected of planning to abduct kids is regarded as being a greater danger than a person who is known to have actually killed multiple adults.

As for the impact all this has on men, I agree that it makes it more difficult for men to volunteer for working with children. I teach karate as a volunteer to kids and adults and the degree to which I have to be careful not to be alone with kids is unreal. What makes me mad then is adults who drop their kids off early at the dojo and run even if the other male instructors have not yet arrived. That sort of behaviour leaves me compromised so I effectively have to avoid any interactions with those kids until another adult arrives. The alternative for me is to keep the door locked so those kids get left alone in the car park. Sometimes I have to bring other adults to accompany me who are not involved with the class at all, if i know the other instructors will be late getting down for a class. Less than one in twenty parents will stay in the hall to watch the class, and provide a "second adult" to allow me teach. As for teaching karate without touching a kid's fist or arm . . . . it's not possible!

AudreyHepburn

MadsL wrote: »

What?

You do realise not everyone lives in the same country as their ex.

My daughter has travelled internationally alone from the age of 14 and transatlantically twice now alone, inlcuding side trips at the age of 16 up to cousins via Las Vegas (change planes)

It is not the age but the child, she's equipped with steel toe doc martens and instructions Most perverts would need protection from her.

:rolleyes:

I'm not sure I should dignify that with a response....yes of course I know that, I am not a fool.

I meant I'm surprise that in spite of that there hasn't been hell raised by parents and an embargo placed on it, thats all.

AudreyHepburn

Zen65 wrote: »

The guy seems especially vile, but (if I read it correctly) he did not actually hurt anyone. He may simply have been a fantasist who bought these bits of equipment to make his fantasies seem more real to him. Yet he is treated in the article as if he was a paedo murderer. To my mind his crime is distributing paedo images, but I may have missed something when I read the story.

I'm all in favour of punishing people who distribute kiddie porn.

Murderers actually get an easier time of it, which I can never understand. The guy who is suspected of planning to abduct kids is regarded as being a greater danger than a person who is known to have actually killed multiple adults.

As for the impact all this has on men, I agree that it makes it more difficult for men to volunteer for working with children. I teach karate as a volunteer to kids and adults and the degree to which I have to be careful not to be alone with kids is unreal. What makes me mad then is adults who drop their kids off early at the dojo and run even if the other male instructors have not yet arrived. That sort of behaviour leaves me compromised so I effectively have to avoid any interactions with those kids until another adult arrives. The alternative for me is to keep the door locked so those kids get left alone in the car park. Sometimes I have to bring other adults to accompany me who are not involved with the class at all, if i know the other instructors will be late getting down for a class. Less than one in twenty parents will stay in the hall to watch the class, and provide a "second adult" to allow me teach. As for teaching karate without touching a kid's fist or arm . . . . it's not possible!

Yes you did....the fact that he had purpose built a torture chamber and was planning to kidnap, torture, kill and consume a child.

That man was a danger and a monster....don't try to make less of his crimes.

To your second point....yes it is truely sad that men are , some what ironically, the ones more in fear of interaction with children than the children themselves.

Our paranoia is doing more harm than good imo.

AudreyHepburn

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Feck it. Thats more of it now

I was sent several times as a young lad and it was an experience.You are well minded, no chance for you to escape but still a welcome break from the parents and a first taste of independence. Would hate to have missed out due to modern overcautiousness

Indeed, realistically, what harm could possibly come to you in a tub 6 miles high filled with people? Particularly if the cabin crew are watching out for you.

Out fo curiosity do we know of any cases of abuse occurring on a plane?

clairefontaine

cuckoo wrote: »

I'd agree that there's a lot more hysteria around the issue of child abuse.

The local swimming pool/gym was renovated a few years ago and I went for a look around when thinking of joining. The showers for the swimming part are in the open, beside the pool - and visible from the reception area and outside the building. When I commented that it was a little bit....public, the staff response was "child protection".

The women's changing rooms for the gym have a shower room, no cubicles, no partitions....nothing. Why? "child protection".

So now when I'm washing my hair after a swim I can wave at people waiting for the number 15 bus on Rathmines road, not sure how that's protecting children but, well, 'hi bus people'.

Well if that's in the women's changing room, then obviously they think women are the main perpetrators of child molestation? Do they have that in the men's room too?

You know what's weird about that, is that exposing your nudity to a child is considered an offence, so how are you NOT supposed to without a private area? They are creating sex offences with that layout. Stupid morons.

clairefontaine

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Indeed, realistically, what harm could possibly come to you in a tub 6 miles high filled with people? Particularly if the cabin crew are watching out for you.

Out fo curiosity do we know of any cases of abuse occurring on a plane?

Well any potential witnesses there... You don't know any of them, can't identify them and will never see them again. Combine that with bystander effect, a child's fickle memory, small confined and controlled spaces and yes it's easy for me to see ow it would happen.

Yes there have been cases.

AudreyHepburn

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703779704576073752925629440.html

What truly sad and sick society we live in.

Perhaps we should just lock all men away as soon as they're born, you know just in case.

These kinds of articles actually make me angry :mad:

AudreyHepburn

clairefontaine wrote: »

Well any potential witnesses there... You don't know any of them, can't identify them and will never see them again. Combine that with bystander effect, a child's fickle memory, small confined and controlled spaces and yes it's easy for me to see ow it would happen.

Yes there have been cases.

Any links to these cases....not because I don't believe you mind, I'm genuinely surprises because I've never heard of it!

I still don't think any of the above warrants people being scared to let their children on a plane alone at any time.

I'd assume such cases are a rare exception, not the norm?

mikemac1

Walked from town (yes town) to Ballyfermot a few weeks back as I had a day off work and loads of time to spare and gotta work on the fitness

About 6.5km or so

Sat in the park afterwards just relaxing and messing on the phone, probably on boards.ie!

The playground was empty, I was on the benches a little way up from it. And then a mother arrived with her child for the playground and I went away home. Lad on his own beside a playground with a camera phone.

The mother never looked at me, it was all in my head but it was real to at the time

clairefontaine

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Any links to these cases....not because I don't believe you mind, I'm genuinely surprises because I've never heard of it!

I still don't think any of the above warrants people being scared to let their children on a plane alone at any time.

I'd assume such cases are a rare exception, not the norm?

https://www.google.com/search?q=child+molestation+on+planes&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

Well, given the day that it is for me, it's still 911 where I am, I'm a little more sensitive about airline safety and a little more amenable to profiling of all kinds, so for me its understandable, even if it might be offensive, but I'm not into political correctness, more into statistical correctness.

Child molestation is not a norm in any context. But it happens enough and with enough devastating consequences that people will be as preventative as they think they can be. And an unsupervised child with a bunch of strangers over foreign airspace freaks makes parents a little nervous. The younger they are the more nervous they get.

So as I said before, letting a minor fly alone is not a choice I would make myself.

clairefontaine

mikemac1 wrote: »

Walked from town (yes town) to Ballyfermot a few weeks back as I had a day off work and loads of time to spare and gotta work on the fitness

About 6.5km or so

Sat in the park afterwards just relaxing and messing on the phone, probably on boards.ie!

The playground was empty, I was on the benches a little way up from it. And then a mother arrived with her child for the playground and I went away home. Lad on his own beside a playground with a camera phone.

The mother never looked at me, it was all in my head but it was real to at the time

It's illegal to be in a playground unless you have a child with you in the US. Applies to men and women. Does that law apply in Ireland? Maybe thats why she was looking at you?

mikemac1

She wasn't looking at me Claire. The only person worrying was me

The playground is enclosed with a wire mesh fence around it. Like a basketball court

I was not in the playground, I was on a bench up the road from it

I misread posts early in the morning too

clairefontaine

mikemac1 wrote: »

She wasn't looking at me Claire. The only person worrying was me

The playground is enclosed with a wire mesh fence around it. Like a basketball court

I was not in the playground, I was on a bench up the road from it

I misread posts early in the morning too

Sorry. Oops.

Amazing how infectious fear can be.

clairefontaine

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

What truly sad and sick society we live in.

Perhaps we should just lock all men away as soon as they're born, you know just in case.

These kinds of articles actually make me angry :mad:

What's even funnier is when it comes from the same people who won't vaccinate their kids.

Begs the question when child safety actually ends up endangering your kids.

Roger_007

I used to coach kids, (9 - 12 year-olds), at football. I gave it up a few years ago because I realised that I was in a vulnerable position. I was shocked when some of the kids started casually referring to people they didn't like, (sometimes their teachers), as 'paedos'. They probably didn't even really know what a paedo was but I reckoned that it was time to get out. One false allegation and my life would be ruined. I have a friend who is a teacher and he told me that he would have nothing to with out-of-school activities for the same reason.
Yes, society has gone over the top and it is the children who will suffer in the long run.

anncoates

Even though you disagree with the media-driven pado terror of the current age, you get affected by it. Too many lives can be ruined by a false allegation: allegations that get reported as fact even their veracity is proved.

I would be far more self-conscious around my kids' friends than mine and my parent's generation

I grew up in a tight-knit working class street where you just walked into most neighbours houses or back gardens when you were a small kid even by yourself. Now, there's no way I would let one of my kids' mates in my house without my kids there.

We actually found a lost kid before in a shopping centre in Dublin and thank fuck my wife was with me as she stayed with the kid while I went and got security. I would have been afraid to walk around with a strange 3 year old trying to find security if I was by myself.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

cuckoo wrote: »

So now when I'm washing my hair after a swim I can wave at people waiting for the number 15 bus on Rathmines road, not sure how that's protecting children but, well, 'hi bus people'.

Bus ****....?? (Sorry!)

Knasher wrote: »

I think most men could probably relate to that builder, there was a study recently that found that 75% of men wouldn't help a child in distress for fear of what it would look like to others, 25% would ignore the child completely while 50% would look for a woman to help.

I'm going to turn this on it's head: how many people - and be honest - if they saw a man with a crying child who to whom he was not related or in loco parentis - would think something might be up?

It's not just the media who are responsibel for for goign OTT.