Brian Gavin

rambojon

clare very hard done by in the first half imho.. gavin tried to make up for it in second half by awarding a couple of wat I would call softish frees to clare...I think he got off to a bad start and prob felt under the cosh for the remainder of the game trying to make up for it.. overall very poor game and will be a long time before or even if ever he gets another one...such as pity that such a brill game between two sporting teams full of stars was overshadowed by the man in the middle...ps.. just wondering has he had finals before and how has he done...?

premierstone

rambojon wrote: »

clare very hard done by in the first half imho.. gavin tried to make up for it in second half by awarding a couple of wat I would call softish frees to clare...I think he got off to a bad start and prob felt under the cosh for the remainder of the game trying to make up for it.. overall very poor game and will be a long time before or even if ever he gets another one...such as pity that such a brill game between two sporting teams full of stars was overshadowed by the man in the middle...ps.. just wondering has he had finals before and how has he done...?

He was the referee in 2011, he is a good ref to be fair, and just like anyone else he is human he simply didnt have he's best day in the office, neither did one or two of the Clare players or about 10 of the Cork lads, I don't see a thread or a poll up about them??

Its a thankless job and tbh I think anyone that does it is mad but fair fcuks to them and I know its hard at times but really people should think before they criticise referees, because lets fact it without these volunteers we wouldn't be trated to such wonderfull entertainment on a regular basis.

Comordha

I've said it before on this site, he's just not up to this level. He bottles all the big calls. What about the 2011 Final where he let Tommy Walsh away with striking him while swinging his hurl around the place wildly. What led to that was Bonnar Maher being hauled to the floor trying to make his way at goal & not one card for a KK player. Only a Tipp free, shocking stuff. KK folk love him reffing their games as they get away with murder, Cork got away with a lot the last day too. Barry Kelly is my favourite. Spots all the off the ball stuff too.

premierstone

Comordha wrote: »

I've said it before on this site, he's just not up to this level.

Have you?? All I ever seem to remember you posting is anti Kilkenny propoganda, maybe I missed it?

Littlehorny

Have to say Gavin must have blessed himself when the Clare corner back stuck the equiliser over. With him and his umpires missing the O'Neill striking and awarding a 2 point swing to Cork through bad calls he would have had to leave the country for a year to avoid the controversy.

premierstone

Littlehorny wrote: »

Have to say Gavin must have blessed himself when the Clare corner back stuck the equiliser over. With him and his umpires missing the O'Neill striking and awarding a 2 point swing to Cork through bad calls he would have had to leave the country for a year to avoid the controversy.

If he had spoted O'Neil striking Honan then he either had eyes in the back of he's head or he wasn't doing he's job ie following the game, absolutely no fault there.

There was two very bad calls against Clare but surely more than negated by allowing Patrick Kelly help Nash take the '21 and Conor McGrath doing the Siege of Ennis before scoring he's second point and not been pulled for steps, also the second of those bad calls ( the one where the Cork player actually charged) was really only picked up on a replay, it certainly looked a free in on first view in normal speed, which is all Gavin had to be fair.

Swings and roundabouts and despite what you might here in the press or off the lad down the pub, no referee ever won or lost a game for anyone.

Browney7

In fairness no intercounty ref thinks before going out "I'm going to ride team A/B today". I do think there are some refs at junior club level that could do this but that's another story!!

I'd imagine Johnny Ryan or James McGrath will ref the replay considering they were the linesmen at the weekend. In fairness to Gavin he tries to let the game flow but sometimes the advantage is to give the free but the refs have a tough job whereby once they don't award the free they can't go back and give it if the attack breaks down.

rambojon

yes brownie.. not that he had a dislike for clare.. but more the fact that his ability to make the big calls leaves a lot to be desired.. just that clare happened to be at the receiving ends of his inabilities in my opinion... that's probably why most clare people feel hard done by.. I wouldn't ever knock some1 for a personal issue relating to his weight rather leave it to the powers that be to ensure that this cannot become an issue...all said and done most neutral appear to agree he had a very poor 70mins.end of. on to the replay.

antoobrien

x43r0 wrote: »

Yeah, like he was required to play a minimum 2mins but what justified the further 30 seconds? Was there an injury in extra-time to merit it?

There was a bit of time wasting, but not 30 seconds worth.

It's worth remembering though the unwritten rule of don't blow up the game with a team on the attack. If the last point had been blocked, he'd probably have blown it up.

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Paddy Kelly's advance on Nash in 1st half: I don't think anyone knows how this is meant to work. One must be at least 20 metres when free is taken but surely that means when Nash lifts the ball? So difficult to know in this case.

It's very simple, the rule specifies that the free will be taken by a strike from the ground or lift and strike and no player may be within 20m. By the time Nash had lifted the ball, Kelly was almost on the edge of the square.

However Gavin was watching Nash from the 13m line, so he couldn't have seen Kelly over his shoulder.

sasol

antoobrien wrote: »

There was a bit of time wasting, but not 30 seconds worth.

It's worth remembering though the unwritten rule of don't blow up the game with a team on the attack. If the last point had been blocked, he'd probably have blown it up.



It's very simple, the rule specifies that the free will be taken by a strike from the ground or lift and strike and no player may be within 20m. By the time Nash had lifted the ball, Kelly was almost on the edge of the square.

However Gavin was watching Nash from the 13m line, so he couldn't have seen Kelly over his shoulder.

Brian Gavin was 100% correct to play 30 seconds extra. Read below excerpt from Monday's Examiner by neutral referee John Bannon. Apologies if it has been put up already

"
What it comes down to is not which team feels more victimised. Each county will feel they suffered a raw deal from Brian Gavin. The question is who is justified to hold that opinion.

Clare have a far stronger case and I’ll go into details shortly. Actually, while Gavin mightn’t be the most popular man in Cork for blowing up 38 seconds after the minimum two minutes, he was right to call a halt to the game when he did.

To clarify the additional time rule, time can be added on for incidental or deliberate play, which holds up the game. Cork’s two line-balls in the two minutes signalled by fourth official James Owens on behalf of Gavin fell into the latter bracket.

The first line ball occurred at 70:03 minutes and Conor O’Sullivan placed the ball. Christopher Joyce then repositioned the sliotar and struck it on 70:36. That’s 33 seconds of a lapse.

The second line ball was awarded at 71:29 but wasn’t taken until 71:58, a gap that amounted to 29 seconds.

Cork were clearly attempting to kill the clock and I had no issue with Gavin permitting the extra 38seconds.
"

antoobrien

sasol wrote: »

The second line ball was awarded at 71:29 but wasn’t taken until 71:58, a gap that amounted to 29 seconds.

That happened because the Clare keeper walked away with the ball and dropped in approx 30m from the line (so as to delay the sideline so he could get back to the goal), so it's not Cork's fault that the 30s was wasted.

But if the ref is seriously trying ot justify that, then there should have been 10 minutes injury time as it often takes 15s-30s to take sidelines.

sasol

antoobrien wrote: »

That happened because the Clare keeper walked away with the ball and dropped in approx 30m from the line (so as to delay the sideline so he could get back to the goal), so it's not Cork's fault that the 30s was wasted.

But if the ref is seriously trying ot justify that, then there should have been 10 minutes injury time as it often takes 15s-30s to take sidelines.

The ref is told the recommended minimum amount. He has then to use his discretion as regards any time wasting that occurs in added/injury time.

Cork were time wasting for two sideline cuts in added time, so Gavin correctly added it on. Its about the only correct thing he did all day.

Whether the time was wasted by Cork, Clare or a streaker, it does not matter. Time was wasted and the ref added it on.

premierstone

sasol wrote: »

The ref is told the recommended minimum amount. He has then to use his discretion as regards any time wasting that occurs in added/injury time.

Cork were time wasting for two sideline cuts in added time, so Gavin correctly added it on. Its about the only correct thing he did all day.

Whether the time was wasted by Cork, Clare or a streaker, it does not matter. Time was wasted and the ref added it on.

Your wrong, the ref is not told anything, it is he who decides the injury time and communicates same to the sideline.

Time was not wasted on either sideline and what John Bannon described above is perfectly normal time to take a sideline.

However Gavin was perfectly entitled to add on the time he did as he signaled ''at least'' two minutes injurytime, not exactly, not upto but at least, it really isn't that hard to comprehend!

eigrod

There really should have been far more 'minimum injury time' anyway. Probably up to 5 minutes. The penalty & 20 metre free that Nash came up for definitely took at least 2 minutes, and probably more.

2 minutes seems to be the standard with the GAA and is rarely questioned afterwards.

Panrich

Here's something else that I haven't seen posted anywhere but maybe I've missed it. If the referee is keeping his time and decides that there is 2 minutes and 30 seconds worth of injury time to be played, then the board will have to go up for two minutes because if three minutes is put up, then he has to play a minimum of three.

By the way, I think that Clare were hard done by on several decisions but thought that this point might be worth mentioning.

grenache

Brian Gavin is generally the best hurling ref out there but he made a few mistakes last Sunday. He incorrectly awarded three frees against Clare in the first half which kept Cork in touch. The McLoughlin charging incident and chop on McInerney before being penalised for over-carrying, were the most blatant errors. On the flip side he didn't order the 21m free by Nash to be retaken despite blatant encroachment from Pat Kelly. Clare went straight up the field and McGrath knocked it over the bar.

In general I felt Gavin made more bad calls against Clare, but it wasn't bias in any way. Just a bad day at the office for him. He's allowed one, because he's had a very good summer thus now.

daveyboy41

This thread is in poor taste..hadn't a great match but certainly not biased...as a Clare man felt our concession of goals cost us more than any decision by Gavin..also our missed chances...if the same microscopic analysis went on player performances how would people react

Kristopherus

daveyboy41 wrote: »

This thread is in poor taste..hadn't a great match but certainly not biased...as a Clare man felt our concession of goals cost us more than any decision by Gavin..also our missed chances...if the same microscopic analysis went on player performances how would people react

Is that you, Fitzy?:D

daveyboy41

I'd say Davey fitz far to busy to b posting here Kris ��

marco_polo

grenache wrote: »

Brian Gavin is generally the best hurling ref out there but he made a few mistakes last Sunday. He incorrectly awarded three frees against Clare in the first half which kept Cork in touch. The McLoughlin charging incident and chop on McInerney before being penalised for over-carrying, were the most blatant errors. On the flip side he didn't order the 21m free by Nash to be retaken despite blatant encroachment from Pat Kelly. Clare went straight up the field and McGrath knocked it over the bar.

In general I felt Gavin made more bad calls against Clare, but it wasn't bias in any way. Just a bad day at the office for him. He's allowed one, because he's had a very good summer thus now.

Its very easy with slow motion hindsight, and I don't think anyone in the ground realised at the time to be fair but even the free against pa Kelly looks like it wasn't a pickup after all.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vDBNRHt_HZE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvDBNRHt_HZE

keeponhurling

That shows pretty clearly that it wasn't a free against Kelly alright.
Poor performance alround by Gavin

premierstone

keeponhurling wrote: »

That shows pretty clearly that it wasn't a free against Kelly alright.
Poor performance alround by Gavin

tbf the video shown has about 7 slow motion replays and its still not 100% clear, Gavin had one view in normal speed and not a single Clare player objected at the time, infact Kelly actually celebrated conceding the free. I'd love to see some of the experts on here actually even attempt to referee a game never mind an AI final.

marco_polo

premierstone wrote: »

tbf the video shown has about 7 slow motion replays and its still not 100% clear, Gavin had one view in normal speed and not a single Clare player objected at the time, infact Kelly actually celebrated conceding the free. I'd love to see some of the experts on here actually even attempt to referee a game never mind an AI final.

Ah I did say it was a hard one to spot in fairness, but looking at his hand it never goes near the ground. I was in a pitch side seat myself barely 25 yards away and hadn't a clue .

Kellys reaction is strange he was either delighted with the (excellent) save or maybe though he had a free out .

Anyway as I have said previously the ref made one or two mistakes but these things happen, and I think the focus on it has detracted from what was a fine game. We certainly had ample opportunities to win it for ourselves.

Here's hoping we can pull it off in two weeks.

bo-sco

I think that replay starts too late. He picks the ball off the ground right at the very start of it but it's hard to notice.

I was in Davin Premium just to the right of the goal and he definitely picked the ball off the ground. As is evidenced by the complete lack of protest from any Clare player.

marco_polo

bo-sco wrote: »

I think that replay starts too late. He picks the ball off the ground right at the very start of it but it's hard to notice.

I was in Davin Premium just to the right of the goal and he definitely picked the ball off the ground. As is evidenced by the complete lack of protest from any Clare player.

Ah I see, clip makes a hell of a lot more sense to me now, I couldn't fathom his calm reaction based on what is shown in the video.

0028673

generally Brian Gavin is a good ref.. He just had a bad day.. it happens..