Brian Gavin

AugustusMinimus

Lots of debate about Brian Gavin yesterday with a lot of people from both sides fuming over various decisions made.

Just thought it would be interesting to have a straw poll on what they thought of his performance.

bo-sco

He wasn't biased but he was terrible. Clare were very hard done by, particularly in the first half.

Dyr

bo-sco wrote: »

He wasn't biased but he was terrible. Clare were very hard done by, particularly in the first half.

He was biased, whether it was a conscious bias or not you can't tell but his first half in particular was totally one sided

daisybelle2008

He looks fairly out of shape too, the pace and physicality of the game would make that a problem.

x43r0

Why did he play that extra 30 seconds at the end of extra time?

marco_polo

Biased I don't think so, I don't for a second doubt he was reffing the game as he saw it, what he was seeing is the question. .

He certainly didn't have a great day at the office anyway.

Ace2007

x43r0 wrote: »

Why did he play that extra 30 seconds at the end of extra time?

What are you talking about? Are you talking about the MINIMUM of 2 mins injury time?

Pudders

One of the better referees in my opinion.

On the more controversial calls:

O'Neill sending off. He clearly didn't see it (and to be fair RTE didn't even catch the goings on beforehand) but he consulted with his linesmen and one of them clearly said two yellows twice. So he can't be blamed for this decision. And are we really sure whether it would have be one or two reds?

The "extra" 30 seconds - no matter how many times people are told that the extra time was a minimum of 2 minutes, they still ask about the extra 30 seconds. He could have played another 29 seconds and he still would have been within his rights.

There were a few calls I'd question in particular the free to Cork for over carrying was blatant chop and free out beforehand and as a neutral I'd say Cork got more of the 50:50 calls but to call him biased either way is a bit daft in my opinion.

buck65

Poor first half, kept Cork in the game at times. Certainly awarded Clare the advantage when it didn't look like accruing twice. Also Cork chop on David McInerney was a yellow card.
Shane O Neill should have walked. Gave Clare a couple of soft ones in the second half along with the chance to equalise. But yeah very poor.

x43r0

Ace2007 wrote: »

What are you talking about? Are you talking about the MINIMUM of 2 mins injury time?

Yeah, like he was required to play a minimum 2mins but what justified the further 30 seconds? Was there an injury in extra-time to merit it?

Fraggle Rock

Poor but not biased. He let a Clare player carry the ball no less than 9 steps before scoring a crucial point. The player shimmied not once but twice to get away from his man.

This "everyone is against us" mentality that Clare have is getting very old and annoying.

AGC

x43r0 wrote: »

Yeah, like he was required to play a minimum 2mins but what justified the further 30 seconds? Was there an injury in extra-time to merit it?

Simply, because he can.

x43r0

AGC wrote: »

Simply, because he can.

I get that, I just don't understand why he would

El Vino

I thought Ollie Moran got it about spot in the Sunday game, his mistakes in the first half all benefited Cork - apart from potential sending off there were at least 2 frees that should have gone the other way, he seemed to spend the 2nd half trying to make it up to Clare.

As far as the injury time goes 2 minutes seemed short from the game itself I was expecting 3, I thought once Cork scored no matter what happened he was going to allow Clare a chance to equalize given what he had done before.

marco_polo

x43r0 wrote: »

I get that, I just don't understand why he would

Only Brian Galvin can answer than, for all we know he may have had already decided on 2.30 as normal time elapsed in which case 2 mins would still be displayed. Of course he could have been playing for the draw, or he may have felt the last sideline was taken a little to slowly for his liking (It was 30 second from the ball going out to actually being taken in fairness so the Cork lad was understandably not exactly rushing to take it :P).

Ace2007

x43r0 wrote: »

Yeah, like he was required to play a minimum 2mins but what justified the further 30 seconds? Was there an injury in extra-time to merit it?

So if his stop watch shows 2 mins 45 seconds what should be shown as injury time? If they put up 3 and blow 15 seconds short you would give out???

Stop moaning about 30 seconds.

Spanish Johnny

Don't think he was that bad but can see how Clare could feel aggrieved.

Was at the match in Upper Hogan as a neutral and I can safely say that he did not see the striking incident - he then did what he could have done by consulting his umpires and can't be blamed for the two yellows as he has to trust them. Bad call by the umpires though.

Paddy Kelly's advance on Nash in 1st half: I don't think anyone knows how this is meant to work. One must be at least 20 metres when free is taken but surely that means when Nash lifts the ball? So difficult to know in this case.

Free for overcarrying against McInerney: Quite simply a baffling and awful decision.

Free against Ryan when McLoughlin charged into him: Now this was an interesting one for me. I genuinely thought when I saw it at the time that it was a Cork free. Felt yer man caught him. Watched it on TV and it's clearly a free out to Clare. What I would say is that Gavin only had one chance too and my initial reaction on the moment was a Cork free.

So that accompanied with not sending off O'Neill (which he can't be blamed for when looked at factually) and the McInerney free it is definitelty understandable why one would be very upset as a Clare fan.

Taken in isolation I think only one of them was a blatantly bad decision.

Finally - this 2 minute thing, what is wrong with people?? It clearly states in the stadium that there will be 'AT LEAST 2 minutes additional time'. Not only that but the announcer repeats himself. That means minimum 2 and possible longer which was justified by the 35 seconds it took Cork to take the line ball.

petronius

Cork lucky to have 15men on the pitch - Gavin i think sided with cork a bit
The equaliser was very understandable just as time was elapsing
its always a hard job but i still feel the traditionally successful sides get the bounce of the ball from the ref.

x43r0

Ace2007 wrote: »

So if his stop watch shows 2 mins 45 seconds what should be shown as injury time? If they put up 3 and blow 15 seconds short you would give out???

Stop moaning about 30 seconds.

I'm not moaning at all - I just didn't understand the 30 seconds. A post actually bothered to try and explain it above and gave a reasonable response - which was nice


Chill out, it's only a game

RGS

Gavin had a poor day at the office. Yes O'Neill should have been sent off.
The McInerney overcarrying was a free out.
However the failure to award a retake when Kelly charged the free was a basic error, this resulted in a point for Clare. Possibly a 4 point turnabout.

In the 2nd half Gavin spoke to Kelly when Cork had the semi penalty and 20 metre free, this was after Nash spoke to Gavin as he was preparing to take the frees. Looked like Nash knew the rules better than the ref.

At least he wont get the replay.

robbiezero

x43r0 wrote: »

Yeah, like he was required to play a minimum 2mins but what justified the further 30 seconds? Was there an injury in extra-time to merit it?

I don't ever buy that referees at that level are biased in any way. He had a fairly poor day out alright. Wouldn't hugely blame him for the Shane O Neill incident, he didnt see it and only went on what his umpires told him and I have a feeling it was either going to be 2 reds or 2 yellows. The two frees were poor in the first half against Clare were poor decisions as was not retaking the first 21 yard free.
But Clare drew that game because they conceded too many goals, defended very poorly when run at and didn't score any goal themselves.

Brian Gavin is not to blame. On the whole I feel decisions went against both sides.

DellyBelly

Was watching it with an english mate and he couldn't believe how fat he was. Must be tough to keep up with any game when you are out of shape but especially for hurling

seligehgit

Brian Gavin is one of the referees in the country IMO,did'nt get everything right but it balanced itself out on both sides...Neutral viewer

Bizzum

seligehgit wrote: »

Brian Gavin is one of the referees in the country IMO

And the award for stating the bleeding obvious goes to ........ You. :-)

Crash Bang Wall

x43r0 wrote: »

Why did he play that extra 30 seconds at the end of extra time?

If a referee is keeping a stopwatch on the game, and stops the time for injuries etc, do u expect all teh time to add up to exactly to the minute. The phrase used is "at least X mins of injury time" which can be anything. Also if there was an injury in injury time is that not allowed to be added on.

I would agree though that it can be used as a cop out for referees. A stadium clock would be much fairer and more transparent

buck65

seligehgit wrote: »

Brian Gavin is one of the referees in the country IMO,did'nt get everything right but it balanced itself out on both sides...Neutral viewer

Yes indeed he is.

Quixoticelixer

Not really comfortable with some of the comments made about his weight, I know where people are coming from with regard to it possibly impacting his performance/mobility but it just seems a bit of a low blow

Anyway, I'm 99% certain that all inter county referees have to pass fitness tests every year, so I believe he's up to task on that front. His performance yesterday was so so. He's usually of a good standard, but I don't think either team was favoured more so than the other yesterday, Gavin had little or no impact on the result yesterday in my opinion.

Keano

Hurling probably needs 2 refs. If you consider how young both teams were its hard for a ref who could be 20 years older than a lot of the players to keep up with them.

Overall his performance was poor.

sasol

x43r0 wrote: »

Yeah, like he was required to play a minimum 2mins but what justified the further 30 seconds? Was there an injury in extra-time to merit it?

There was time wasting by Cork. They had two line balls which took up over 60 seconds in additional time.

The ref was perfectly entitled to add this on to the minimum of 2 minutes signalled.

Poor_old_gill

I thought he rode Clare pillar to post for about 65 minutes- then realised that he may well have cost them the game and played enough injury time for them to equalise.
I'm completely neutral, I don't like engaging in conspiracy theories and I find Davie Fitz to be quite detestable but they were very hard done by on Sunday

petronius

I dont think he is a bad ref - maybe just bad day at the office
to slag him for carrying a few pounds may be a bit harsh there is manys a ref in hurling and football who could do with more time in they gym but i dont think this affected his performance
I think overall he did favour cork for the best part of an hour this is always the case when the big fish play the small fish as davy fitz would say
Nash has relatively few games in the championship but has an old head on his shoulders
you could argue one or 2 decisions when clares way in the first half
but there should have been a sending off - why the officials behind the goal didnt help the ref is always a mystery to me

rambojon

clare very hard done by in the first half imho.. gavin tried to make up for it in second half by awarding a couple of wat I would call softish frees to clare...I think he got off to a bad start and prob felt under the cosh for the remainder of the game trying to make up for it.. overall very poor game and will be a long time before or even if ever he gets another one...such as pity that such a brill game between two sporting teams full of stars was overshadowed by the man in the middle...ps.. just wondering has he had finals before and how has he done...?

premierstone

rambojon wrote: »

clare very hard done by in the first half imho.. gavin tried to make up for it in second half by awarding a couple of wat I would call softish frees to clare...I think he got off to a bad start and prob felt under the cosh for the remainder of the game trying to make up for it.. overall very poor game and will be a long time before or even if ever he gets another one...such as pity that such a brill game between two sporting teams full of stars was overshadowed by the man in the middle...ps.. just wondering has he had finals before and how has he done...?

He was the referee in 2011, he is a good ref to be fair, and just like anyone else he is human he simply didnt have he's best day in the office, neither did one or two of the Clare players or about 10 of the Cork lads, I don't see a thread or a poll up about them??

Its a thankless job and tbh I think anyone that does it is mad but fair fcuks to them and I know its hard at times but really people should think before they criticise referees, because lets fact it without these volunteers we wouldn't be trated to such wonderfull entertainment on a regular basis.

Comordha

I've said it before on this site, he's just not up to this level. He bottles all the big calls. What about the 2011 Final where he let Tommy Walsh away with striking him while swinging his hurl around the place wildly. What led to that was Bonnar Maher being hauled to the floor trying to make his way at goal & not one card for a KK player. Only a Tipp free, shocking stuff. KK folk love him reffing their games as they get away with murder, Cork got away with a lot the last day too. Barry Kelly is my favourite. Spots all the off the ball stuff too.

premierstone

Comordha wrote: »

I've said it before on this site, he's just not up to this level.

Have you?? All I ever seem to remember you posting is anti Kilkenny propoganda, maybe I missed it?

Littlehorny

Have to say Gavin must have blessed himself when the Clare corner back stuck the equiliser over. With him and his umpires missing the O'Neill striking and awarding a 2 point swing to Cork through bad calls he would have had to leave the country for a year to avoid the controversy.

premierstone

Littlehorny wrote: »

Have to say Gavin must have blessed himself when the Clare corner back stuck the equiliser over. With him and his umpires missing the O'Neill striking and awarding a 2 point swing to Cork through bad calls he would have had to leave the country for a year to avoid the controversy.

If he had spoted O'Neil striking Honan then he either had eyes in the back of he's head or he wasn't doing he's job ie following the game, absolutely no fault there.

There was two very bad calls against Clare but surely more than negated by allowing Patrick Kelly help Nash take the '21 and Conor McGrath doing the Siege of Ennis before scoring he's second point and not been pulled for steps, also the second of those bad calls ( the one where the Cork player actually charged) was really only picked up on a replay, it certainly looked a free in on first view in normal speed, which is all Gavin had to be fair.

Swings and roundabouts and despite what you might here in the press or off the lad down the pub, no referee ever won or lost a game for anyone.

Browney7

In fairness no intercounty ref thinks before going out "I'm going to ride team A/B today". I do think there are some refs at junior club level that could do this but that's another story!!

I'd imagine Johnny Ryan or James McGrath will ref the replay considering they were the linesmen at the weekend. In fairness to Gavin he tries to let the game flow but sometimes the advantage is to give the free but the refs have a tough job whereby once they don't award the free they can't go back and give it if the attack breaks down.

rambojon

yes brownie.. not that he had a dislike for clare.. but more the fact that his ability to make the big calls leaves a lot to be desired.. just that clare happened to be at the receiving ends of his inabilities in my opinion... that's probably why most clare people feel hard done by.. I wouldn't ever knock some1 for a personal issue relating to his weight rather leave it to the powers that be to ensure that this cannot become an issue...all said and done most neutral appear to agree he had a very poor 70mins.end of. on to the replay.

antoobrien

x43r0 wrote: »

Yeah, like he was required to play a minimum 2mins but what justified the further 30 seconds? Was there an injury in extra-time to merit it?

There was a bit of time wasting, but not 30 seconds worth.

It's worth remembering though the unwritten rule of don't blow up the game with a team on the attack. If the last point had been blocked, he'd probably have blown it up.

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Paddy Kelly's advance on Nash in 1st half: I don't think anyone knows how this is meant to work. One must be at least 20 metres when free is taken but surely that means when Nash lifts the ball? So difficult to know in this case.

It's very simple, the rule specifies that the free will be taken by a strike from the ground or lift and strike and no player may be within 20m. By the time Nash had lifted the ball, Kelly was almost on the edge of the square.

However Gavin was watching Nash from the 13m line, so he couldn't have seen Kelly over his shoulder.

sasol

antoobrien wrote: »

There was a bit of time wasting, but not 30 seconds worth.

It's worth remembering though the unwritten rule of don't blow up the game with a team on the attack. If the last point had been blocked, he'd probably have blown it up.



It's very simple, the rule specifies that the free will be taken by a strike from the ground or lift and strike and no player may be within 20m. By the time Nash had lifted the ball, Kelly was almost on the edge of the square.

However Gavin was watching Nash from the 13m line, so he couldn't have seen Kelly over his shoulder.

Brian Gavin was 100% correct to play 30 seconds extra. Read below excerpt from Monday's Examiner by neutral referee John Bannon. Apologies if it has been put up already

"
What it comes down to is not which team feels more victimised. Each county will feel they suffered a raw deal from Brian Gavin. The question is who is justified to hold that opinion.

Clare have a far stronger case and I’ll go into details shortly. Actually, while Gavin mightn’t be the most popular man in Cork for blowing up 38 seconds after the minimum two minutes, he was right to call a halt to the game when he did.

To clarify the additional time rule, time can be added on for incidental or deliberate play, which holds up the game. Cork’s two line-balls in the two minutes signalled by fourth official James Owens on behalf of Gavin fell into the latter bracket.

The first line ball occurred at 70:03 minutes and Conor O’Sullivan placed the ball. Christopher Joyce then repositioned the sliotar and struck it on 70:36. That’s 33 seconds of a lapse.

The second line ball was awarded at 71:29 but wasn’t taken until 71:58, a gap that amounted to 29 seconds.

Cork were clearly attempting to kill the clock and I had no issue with Gavin permitting the extra 38seconds.
"

antoobrien

sasol wrote: »

The second line ball was awarded at 71:29 but wasn’t taken until 71:58, a gap that amounted to 29 seconds.

That happened because the Clare keeper walked away with the ball and dropped in approx 30m from the line (so as to delay the sideline so he could get back to the goal), so it's not Cork's fault that the 30s was wasted.

But if the ref is seriously trying ot justify that, then there should have been 10 minutes injury time as it often takes 15s-30s to take sidelines.

sasol

antoobrien wrote: »

That happened because the Clare keeper walked away with the ball and dropped in approx 30m from the line (so as to delay the sideline so he could get back to the goal), so it's not Cork's fault that the 30s was wasted.

But if the ref is seriously trying ot justify that, then there should have been 10 minutes injury time as it often takes 15s-30s to take sidelines.

The ref is told the recommended minimum amount. He has then to use his discretion as regards any time wasting that occurs in added/injury time.

Cork were time wasting for two sideline cuts in added time, so Gavin correctly added it on. Its about the only correct thing he did all day.

Whether the time was wasted by Cork, Clare or a streaker, it does not matter. Time was wasted and the ref added it on.

premierstone

sasol wrote: »

The ref is told the recommended minimum amount. He has then to use his discretion as regards any time wasting that occurs in added/injury time.

Cork were time wasting for two sideline cuts in added time, so Gavin correctly added it on. Its about the only correct thing he did all day.

Whether the time was wasted by Cork, Clare or a streaker, it does not matter. Time was wasted and the ref added it on.

Your wrong, the ref is not told anything, it is he who decides the injury time and communicates same to the sideline.

Time was not wasted on either sideline and what John Bannon described above is perfectly normal time to take a sideline.

However Gavin was perfectly entitled to add on the time he did as he signaled ''at least'' two minutes injurytime, not exactly, not upto but at least, it really isn't that hard to comprehend!

eigrod

There really should have been far more 'minimum injury time' anyway. Probably up to 5 minutes. The penalty & 20 metre free that Nash came up for definitely took at least 2 minutes, and probably more.

2 minutes seems to be the standard with the GAA and is rarely questioned afterwards.

Panrich

Here's something else that I haven't seen posted anywhere but maybe I've missed it. If the referee is keeping his time and decides that there is 2 minutes and 30 seconds worth of injury time to be played, then the board will have to go up for two minutes because if three minutes is put up, then he has to play a minimum of three.

By the way, I think that Clare were hard done by on several decisions but thought that this point might be worth mentioning.

grenache

Brian Gavin is generally the best hurling ref out there but he made a few mistakes last Sunday. He incorrectly awarded three frees against Clare in the first half which kept Cork in touch. The McLoughlin charging incident and chop on McInerney before being penalised for over-carrying, were the most blatant errors. On the flip side he didn't order the 21m free by Nash to be retaken despite blatant encroachment from Pat Kelly. Clare went straight up the field and McGrath knocked it over the bar.

In general I felt Gavin made more bad calls against Clare, but it wasn't bias in any way. Just a bad day at the office for him. He's allowed one, because he's had a very good summer thus now.

daveyboy41

This thread is in poor taste..hadn't a great match but certainly not biased...as a Clare man felt our concession of goals cost us more than any decision by Gavin..also our missed chances...if the same microscopic analysis went on player performances how would people react

Kristopherus

daveyboy41 wrote: »

This thread is in poor taste..hadn't a great match but certainly not biased...as a Clare man felt our concession of goals cost us more than any decision by Gavin..also our missed chances...if the same microscopic analysis went on player performances how would people react

Is that you, Fitzy?:D

daveyboy41

I'd say Davey fitz far to busy to b posting here Kris ��

marco_polo

grenache wrote: »

Brian Gavin is generally the best hurling ref out there but he made a few mistakes last Sunday. He incorrectly awarded three frees against Clare in the first half which kept Cork in touch. The McLoughlin charging incident and chop on McInerney before being penalised for over-carrying, were the most blatant errors. On the flip side he didn't order the 21m free by Nash to be retaken despite blatant encroachment from Pat Kelly. Clare went straight up the field and McGrath knocked it over the bar.

In general I felt Gavin made more bad calls against Clare, but it wasn't bias in any way. Just a bad day at the office for him. He's allowed one, because he's had a very good summer thus now.

Its very easy with slow motion hindsight, and I don't think anyone in the ground realised at the time to be fair but even the free against pa Kelly looks like it wasn't a pickup after all.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vDBNRHt_HZE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvDBNRHt_HZE