World War 1 overshadowed

GonzalezT1000

World War 1 was a very interesting war but it's not discussed nearly as much as World War 2. Does World War 1 interest you?

Frosty McSnowballs

No, that was just the practice one. WWWWWII was the real one.

MadsL

Pah! At least it was a world war. The Boer War is the one that got really over shadowed. The Germans just copied those concentration camps, the Boer War was the true hipster war, committing war crimes before they were cool.

Elmer Blooker

GonzalezT1000 wrote: »

World War 1 was a very interesting war but it's not discussed nearly as much as World War 2. Does World War 1 interest you?

You won't be saying that next August.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

MadsL wrote: »

Pah! At least it was a world war. The Boer War is the one that got really over shadowed. The Germans just copied those concentration camps, the Boer War was the true hipster war, committing war crimes before they were cool.

War crimes were well documented before the Boer War, look at what the Spaniards did to the Incas and Aztecs, the US government did to the native Americans and what the British,Dutch,French,Belgians,Germans had already done in their colonies.

MadsL

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

War crimes were well documented before the Boer War, look at what the Spaniards did to the Incas and Aztecs, the US government did to the native Americans and what the British,Dutch,French,Belgians,Germans had already done in their colonies.

Yeah, but the hipster English solidiers made it cool. Look at Zulu, iconic movie. The Mission not nearly as much fun.

losthorizon

You can still visit many of the great battle fields of WW1

Would love to do it my self.

http://www.en.verdun-tourisme.com/www-sommaire-1497-UK-VISITER_SEJOURNER.html

Nodin

MadsL wrote: »

Yeah, but the hipster English solidiers made it cool. Look at Zulu, iconic movie. .........

I preferred the sequel.

Karl Stein

WWII was more of a conclusion to WWI imo.

The Treaty of Versailles was a ****ing disaster.

Sleepy

It's quite easy understand: far more survivors of WW2 were alive during our life-times than of the first World War. Some of our grandfathers may have even taken part.

Add that to the fact that far more footage and photography of the second war still exists, that the TV executives and authors of the past few decades were raised, playing with historically accurate Action Man figures, by parents who lived through that conflict and it's hardly surprising that the second war holds a far greater place in our social memory than the first.

dj jarvis

Depends who you ask if it is overshadowed
this generation i would say don't know much more than the chapter the learn in school ( soon to be gotten rid of , history in school , not this generation :P )

go back 20 years , they would have a bit more taught , still some survivors left
keeping the 20 years in mind - more would be known

But i think if you have an interest in history you will know of it well , and the horrors that it produced , the birth of mechanized war , the first use of gas , first use of tanks , air power , it was the creche for all wars to follow.

i think it has a lot to do with most if not all images being in black and white , and the style of film ( hand cranked jumpy pictures with the pathe news graphics ) , when this generation look at this it must look like hundreds of years ago and not relevant to them today

But WW2 is on the history channel and the like 24 7 , all colorized and in HD ( i know this has been done for some WW1 footage , but nowhere near to the extent of WW2 )

In a word , i get the feeling today's school children look upon WW1 as i did with the Napoleonic wars - so long ago as to be not really that important in a modern context

me - i love history , and modern military history i am looking at a bookshelf full of books on WW1 WW2 Vietnam , Korea , the cold war , mao , stalin , hitler ect ect

But it was such a bloodbath , it should never be forgotten - but if they stop teaching history in schools , it soon will be

kneemos

Cooler weapons in WWII.Tanks,aircraft,rockets,V2's etc.
Much more interesting and contempory than WWI.

mattjack

One of my uncles died in a concentration camp.

He was drunk and fell out of his watchtower one night.

who_me

Sleepy wrote: »

It's quite easy understand: far more survivors of WW2 were alive during our life-times than of the first World War. Some of our grandfathers may have even taken part.

Add that to the fact that far more footage and photography of the second war still exists, that the TV executives and authors of the past few decades were raised, playing with historically accurate Action Man figures, by parents who lived through that conflict and it's hardly surprising that the second war holds a far greater place in our social memory than the first.

Add to that, from a British/Irish perspective, wars were something that were fought "over there". Europe/Africa/Asia etc. WWII changed all that. No nation was safe, no city was safe, civilians weren't safe. Not that civilians escaped unscathed from previous conflicts, but I don't think civilians were targeted as routinely during WWI or previous conflicts.

dj jarvis

mattjack wrote: »

One of my uncles died in a concentration camp.

He was drunk and fell out of his watchtower one night.

boom boom :P

i used that one night , and had 2 lads convinced he did , till i dropped the last line on them , they were not happy , seeing the gave me the "o jesus , im so so sorry about your great uncle "

Muise...

WWII had much more of an ethical impetus, I think. The tragedy of WWI was conscription of a generation for slaughter in an internecine conflict between monarchs.

mattjack

dj jarvis wrote: »

boom boom :P

i used that one night , and had 2 lads convinced he did , till i dropped the last line on them , they were not happy , seeing the gave me the "o jesus , im so so sorry about your great uncle "

Use the Japanese POW camp version for extra effect, I told my sister in law the uncle fell on his Samurai Sword.

dj jarvis

who_me wrote: »

Add to that, from a British/Irish perspective, wars were something that were fought "over there". Europe/Africa/Asia etc. WWII changed all that. No nation was safe, no city was safe, civilians weren't safe. Not that civilians escaped unscathed from previous conflicts, but I don't think civilians were targeted as routinely during WWI or previous conflicts.

not true really , the Germans sent zeppelins to bomb London regularly in WW1 , and not just London , and they also had super heavy rail based artillery that could shell the south county's of the UK , google "big bertha " if you dare

but yes , it was rammed up in WW2

dj jarvis

mattjack wrote: »

Use the Japanese POW camp version for extra effect, I told my sister in law the uncle fell on his Samurai Sword.

unless you are aged about 70 , you should change that to great uncle !!

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

Pah! At least it was a world war. The Boer War is the one that got really over shadowed. The Germans just copied those concentration camps, the Boer War was the true hipster war, committing war crimes before they were cool.

An aunt of mine was clearing out the closet of her late-uncle, when she discovered these diaries in there. They were absolutely ancient and when they started reading, they discovered that they belonged to another family member that had fought in the Boer War. Made for fascinating reading.

GalwayGuy2

War crimes were well documented before the Boer War, look at what the Spaniards did to the Incas and Aztecs, the US government did to the native Americans and what the British,Dutch,French,Belgians,Germans had already done in their colonies.

Don't you mean the european powers?

Me, I always had a hankerin' for the Napoleanic wars.

MRnotlob606

world war 1 was pretty much a colonial war really ,ww2 was a war about ideologies, but thats just my opinion

LordSutch

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Don't you mean the european powers?

Me, I always had a hankerin' for the Napoleanic wars.

Me too, and when you think of all that effort they put onto building the Martello towers, and then nothing . . .

Still, they make nice dwellings nowadays.

Fratton Fred

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

world war 1 was pretty much a colonial war really ,ww2 was a war about ideologies, but thats just my opinion

I believe rival empires is more accurate.

mikemac1

Currently reading about the Taipeng revolution in China. It last for years, the books starts around 1860 or so

Jaysus, over 20 million died and I never heard of this war until recently

Imagine a failed civil servant declaring he was the brother of Jesus Christ, made himself King and millions became Christians andflocked to fight and die for him.

This all happened!

lahalane

GonzalezT1000 wrote: »

World War 1 was a very interesting war but it's not discussed nearly as much as World War 2. Does World War 1 interest you?

World War 2 and the Godfather 2 are two of the only sequels that were better than the original. I'm sure there are others but they're the obvious ones.

MRnotlob606

world war 3 will start soon

Gummy Panda

dj jarvis wrote: »

Depends who you ask if it is overshadowed
this generation i would say don't know much more than the chapter the learn in school ( soon to be gotten rid of , history in school , not this generation :P )

go back 20 years , they would have a bit more taught , still some survivors left
keeping the 20 years in mind - more would be known

But i think if you have an interest in history you will know of it well , and the horrors that it produced , the birth of mechanized war , the first use of gas , first use of tanks , air power , it was the creche for all wars to follow.

i think it has a lot to do with most if not all images being in black and white , and the style of film ( hand cranked jumpy pictures with the pathe news graphics ) , when this generation look at this it must look like hundreds of years ago and not relevant to them today

But WW2 is on the history channel and the like 24 7 , all colorized and in HD ( i know this has been done for some WW1 footage , but nowhere near to the extent of WW2 )

In a word , i get the feeling today's school children look upon WW1 as i did with the Napoleonic wars - so long ago as to be not really that important in a modern context

me - i love history , and modern military history i am looking at a bookshelf full of books on WW1 WW2 Vietnam , Korea , the cold war , mao , stalin , hitler ect ect

But it was such a bloodbath , it should never be forgotten - but if they stop teaching history in schools , it soon will be

I agree with this. When I was a teenager studying world war 1, it seemed like a war from hundreds of years ago. World war 2 seemed comparable to a modern conflict.

namloc1980

Some of this footage is mind blowing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGWdshofk3s

MRnotlob606

i have a world war 1 belt buckle

Stojkovic

The Seven Years War was really the first World War.

VONSHIRACH

WW1 was pretty much a prequel for WW2 but WW1 did bring about dramatic European change such as

1. end of Hapsburg empire
2. end of German empire, abdication of Kaiser, fascist seeds sown
3. end of Imperial Russian empire and the Romanov dynasty, start of communism
4. increased technological development and mechanisation
5. influenza epidemic in 1918 25m - 50m? died
6. greater emancipation of women

The WW1 conflict is interesting. It is hard to believe things like how it started, trench warfare, all the mindless slaughter day after day, shot at dawn etc etc

ww2 was a nastier affair with equally devastating consequences.

MRnotlob606

also gave military experience too hitler and mussolini

mikemac1

Mussolini achieved what 60 years of CIE could not :cool:

tim3000

It is a very overshadowed conflict. Video games completely skipped it and this has ensured that the youth of today are not as familiar as they should be with it in the way they would be with WW2. Also if memory serves WW1 isn't thought at L.C. history at any level. Though if you understand it and the technology and tactics used then you will get a fuller understanding of the second. Its a shame that it is overshadowed but it would be worse if it was like the Korean War.

LuckyLloyd

Stojkovic wrote: »

The Seven Years War was really the first World War.

Good shout.

WW1 was really the last of a certain type of war and the last example of societies functioning from top to bottom as class based systems. WW2 had its gestation in the Treaty of Versailles, but that fact makes WW1 all the more fascinating. Western society in 1933 was a completely different and almost unrecognisable beast to the world of 1913.

Zebra3

mattjack wrote: »

One of my uncles died in a concentration camp.

He was drunk and fell out of his watchtower one night.

The old ones are the best.






You can't beat a good aul' wan.

Wibbs

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

i have a world war 1 belt buckle

Cool. I have a Great war wristwatch(where it first became popular. Before that pocket watches were for men, wristwatches for women). Still ticks along mightily too.

Just finished a book on the Somme this very day. Jesus christ, even though I had a fair notion, the carnage and daily death toll was still utterly startling to me. Unimaginable really. Many thousands could be mown down in a single day in a remarkably tiny area. Many moons ago I was in that part of France and it's worth a visit to see the graveyards of many nations, row after row. Mechanised death by Maxim guns, though artillery killed the most as an average.

I agree with others that WW2 seems more relevant to us because it looks more "modern" in many ways. Movies and TV and media adds to this by making way more documentaries and dramas about WW2. It's more "photogenic" for a start. WW1 feels more like a 19th century war, which in many ways it was. WW2 was the 20th century war. Even the way many wars are fought today had it's genesis in WW2. Look at the gulf wars. The US used the German innovation of Blitzkrieg in all but name.

Hownowcow

I'm more interested in the first World War but that's probably because I have a relative who didn't come home from it. He's in one of those war graveyards you often see on tv. I hope to visit on the hundredth anniversary.

dxhound2005

Wibbs wrote: »

Cool. I have a Great war wristwatch(where it first became popular. Before that pocket watches were for men, wristwatches for women). Still ticks along mightily too.

Just finished a book on the Somme this very day. Jesus christ, even though I had a fair notion, the carnage and daily death toll was still utterly startling to me. Unimaginable really. Many thousands could be mown down in a single day in a remarkably tiny area. Many moons ago I was in that part of France and it's worth a visit to see the graveyards of many nations, row after row. Mechanised death by Maxim guns, though artillery killed the most as an average.

I agree with others that WW2 seems more relevant to us because it looks more "modern" in many ways. Movies and TV and media adds to this by making way more documentaries and dramas about WW2. It's more "photogenic" for a start. WW1 feels more like a 19th century war, which in many ways it was. WW2 was the 20th century war. Even the way many wars are fought today had it's genesis in WW2. Look at the gulf wars. The US used the German innovation of Blitzkrieg in all but name.

I think it was a good war but it wasn't a Great War.

strangel00p

dj jarvis wrote: »

unless you are aged about 70 , you should change that to great uncle !!

Errr...hang on, I'm 38 and three of my uncles were in the second world war...

dj jarvis

strangel00p wrote: »

Errr...hang on, I'm 38 and three of my uncles were in the second world war...

yea , fully possible , but would be unusual , i am in my mid 40's and my uncles were mostly born at the end of the war , mid to late 1940's

none of my uncles were anywhere near old enough to fight , most were not born , it was my granddad and great uncles that were soldiers

one of them was even killed in a POW camp - he fell from his watch tower

CruelCoin

GonzalezT1000 wrote: »

World War 1 was a very interesting war but it's not discussed nearly as much as World War 2. Does World War 1 interest you?

Not particularly.

The entire thing was waged as a method of willy-waving and Honerz whoring.

If i happen upon it on the history channel i watch it, but i don't seek it out.

Fratton Fred

CruelCoin wrote: »

Not particularly.

The entire thing was waged as a method of willy-waving and Honerz whoring.

If i happen upon it on the history channel i watch it, but i don't seek it out.

It was, but the scale of the war and the social and economic effects were very influential on 20th century politics.

It changed, the enormously, the world we live in.

Don't know why World War 1 isn't as discussed as it should be. Trench warfare has to be one of the most miserable things in history.

IvySlayer

World War I indirectly caused World War 2

WWI is extremely complicated to explain how it really started

B0jangles

strangel00p wrote: »

Errr...hang on, I'm 38 and three of my uncles were in the second world war...

I'm 35 and my grand-uncle died in the First World War!

clairefontaine

Wibbs wrote: »

Cool. I have a Great war wristwatch(where it first became popular. Before that pocket watches were for men, wristwatches for women). Still ticks along mightily too.

Just finished a book on the Somme this very day. Jesus christ, even though I had a fair notion, the carnage and daily death toll was still utterly startling to me. Unimaginable really. Many thousands could be mown down in a single day in a remarkably tiny area. Many moons ago I was in that part of France and it's worth a visit to see the graveyards of many nations, row after row. Mechanised death by Maxim guns, though artillery killed the most as an average.

I agree with others that WW2 seems more relevant to us because it looks more "modern" in many ways. Movies and TV and media adds to this by making way more documentaries and dramas about WW2. It's more "photogenic" for a start. WW1 feels more like a 19th century war, which in many ways it was. WW2 was the 20th century war. Even the way many wars are fought today had it's genesis in WW2. Look at the gulf wars. The US used the German innovation of Blitzkrieg in all but name.

I think it's because the US was more involved in WW2 and very much part of our heroic narrative. So as a major producer and disseminator of media, film, stories, narratives, etc, more attention gets put out there about ww2. Also ww2 was the beginning of intelligence for the US, CIA etc, and the glamour of espionage stories around MI5 etc, have a glamour that keeps people very intrigues.

So dare I say there is a glamor attached to ww2. The women fighter pilots, the music, Casablanca, etc.

Also, Nazi iconography was powerful so sticks more so and is memorable in a way ww1 isn't. I was really shocked and moved and horrified the more I read about ww1 because I had no idea how horrific I was.

WW1 doesn't get as much representation.

Blisterman

It might just be an Irish thing, because it's pretty well remembered in the UK. There's more memorials to it than WW2 and remembrance day on the 11th November is huge. You'll see people selling poppies on practically every street corner in the run up to it.

It's probably because for a long time, WWI veterans in Ireland were considered almost as traitors, and it wasn't really talked about. Plus it would have been overshadowed at the time by the Irish war of independence and the civil war.

The war memorial gardens near Phoenix Park in Dublin say that something like 49,000 Irish people died during World War 1? That's a crazy amount for it not to be remembered or any memorials!

losthorizon

clairefontaine wrote: »

I think it's because the US was more involved in WW2 and very much part of our heroic narrative. So as a major producer and disseminator of media, film, stories, narratives, etc, more attention gets put out there about ww2. Also ww2 was the beginning of intelligence for the US, CIA etc, and the glamour of espionage stories around MI5 etc, have a glamour that keeps people very intrigues.

So dare I say there is a glamor attached to ww2. The women fighter pilots, the music, Casablanca, etc.

Also, Nazi iconography was powerful so sticks more so and is memorable in a way ww1 isn't. I was really shocked and moved and horrified the more I read about ww1 because I had no idea how horrific I was.

WW1 doesn't get as much representation.

Deleted User wrote: »

The war memorial gardens near Phoenix Park in Dublin say that something like 49,000 Irish people died during World War 1? That's a crazy amount for it not to be remembered or any memorials!

The greatest war film of all time imo is All Quiet on the Western Front. Slow to Start and the first 20 mins it looks dated but after that ... wow. It will live with you for ever. It tells about war from the German side in WW1.

Do not watch the remake see the 1930 original.

The last British soldier killed in action was with the Irish lancers and the first soldiers killed were an Irishman, a Scot and an English man on a patrol very early in the war.

Indeed Michael Palins doc has it that the German soldiers were trying to wave back the American soldiers as they didnt want to shoot as they knew about the ceasefire but the American commanders just wanted to gain ground by fighting which they were going to get anyway. Madness
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7696021.stm

Finally the Thiepval Memorial , Somme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSC3IBqUlNY