The Integrity Of The CCCC

eire 2012 · 08-09-2013 6:02pm #1

Lets see now if the integrity of the cccc stands up now after today's All Ireland Final.If it does then Shane o Neill will not be playing in the replay.They were very quick to overturn Patrick Horgans red against limerick and today Shane o Neill is clearly seen striking across the head with his hurl ,his second dangerous strike with the hurl this year.He should be having a nice month off now if the cccc is going to apply its own rules properly.

platypus · 08-09-2013 6:07pm

I agree they should deal with it, but can they when ref has already given a yellow for the incident?

shockframe · 08-09-2013 6:09pm

It would have ruined the game.
There's no cynicism in hurling.
He's not that type of player.
It was a great game.
Some great skills on show.
This isnt Football.
Their trying to take the manliness out of the game.
It detracts from what a great game it was.
Hurling is the greatest game in the world.
There's no malice in him.

'Lather, Rinse and repeat.'

eire 2012 · 08-09-2013 6:17pm

platypus wrote: »

I agree they should deal with it, but can they when ref has already given a yellow for the incident?

The certainly dealt with John Dalton a few years ago after the league final even though he got a yellow card so that shouldn't be an issue

keeponhurling · 08-09-2013 6:28pm

A stroke to the back of the head with the Hurley, when the ball is not neat them, is a very dangerous act.
GAA could do with sending out a message that is isn't tolerated, and that would benefit all levels of hurling.

I'm not sure the ref saw it clearly though, so they could look at TV footage?!

We,ll see in the next few days

rebel girl 15 · 08-09-2013 6:29pm

eire 2012, its definitely not a case of the CCCC following its own rules, because they cannot.

Going back to the Dalton incident, the only reason the CCCC could intervene was because the referee, Wadding I think did not see the incident, it certainly was not dealt with on the field of play. Dalton did not get a yellow for it

In Shane O Neill's case, it was a red card offense, but it was dealt with on the field of play by the referee, who issued him with a yellow card. They, the CCCC, cannot review it, because it was deemed to have been dealt with on the field of play.

Browney7 · 08-09-2013 6:38pm

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

eire 2012, its definitely not a case of the CCCC following its own rules, because they cannot.

Going back to the Dalton incident, the only reason the CCCC could intervene was because the referee, Wadding I think did not see the incident, it certainly was not dealt with on the field of play. Dalton did not get a yellow for it

In Shane O Neill's case, it was a red card offense, but it was dealt with on the field of play by the referee, who issued him with a yellow card. They, the CCCC, cannot review it, because it was deemed to have been dealt with on the field of play.

Is there something though that they can ask the ref if he would have given a red in the aftermath? I seem to recall something like this happening before. Maybe I'm imagining it

Motivator · 08-09-2013 6:40pm

If the Shane o Neil incident have of happened later in the game then it would have been a red card. It was plain to see on Brian Gavin's face that he knew it was a red as well but he didn't want to ruin the game.

Clare certainly can't blame Brian Gavin for them not winning the game, it's not his fault they bottled it.

shockframe · 08-09-2013 6:49pm

Classic from Brian Carthy.Right on cue.

'I thought the referee had a great game today'

Liam O'Neill agrees.It was a great game.

rebel girl 15 · 08-09-2013 6:50pm

Browney7 wrote: »

Is there something though that they can ask the ref if he would have given a red in the aftermath? I seem to recall something like this happening before. Maybe I'm imagining it

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I will be checking with a friend of mine. I think it happened to Tyrone a few years ago, a player was banned retrospectively - but the catch is that I think it was a black card issued, not a yellow. There was nothing in the rulebook about the black card at the time, so technically it wasn't dealt with. Any recent CCCC review has been when there was video footage of the incident, but it has not been dealt with it on the pitch.

[-0-] · 08-09-2013 7:02pm

Motivator wrote: »

If the Shane o Neil incident have of happened later in the game then it would have been a red card. It was plain to see on Brian Gavin's face that he knew it was a red as well but he didn't want to ruin the game.

Clare certainly can't blame Brian Gavin for them not winning the game, it's not his fault they bottled it.

How did Clare bottle it, exactly?

They bottled nothing.

keeponhurling · 08-09-2013 7:03pm

O'Neills stroke was out of place really and should have been punished.

What stood out today was the level of skills these teams have, great score taking, high catching, hooking, blocking etc.
Lots of smaller lads on both teams, T.Kelly, Podge, Kearney, McLaughlin, Galvin etc.
Showing that hurling doesn't need to be about roughing up your man, it's about te pure skills of the game.
Kelly and Podge are a joy to watch

Fr Tod Umptious · 08-09-2013 7:04pm

It was dealt with on the field therefore it cannot be reviewed
That rule has been in place for about three seasons now,prior to then it would have been reviewable

Ace2007 · 08-09-2013 7:12pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It was dealt with on the field therefore it cannot be reviewed
That rule has been in place for about three seasons now,prior to then it would have been reviewable

if the ref gave a yellow for hurl on head then he should be barred himself from being a ref again.

I can only assume he gave yellow for all the ball barging with Clare guy

Daroxtar · 08-09-2013 7:52pm

Official request gone in from Clare county board to have Martin Sludden instated as ref for the replay as he couldn't be any worse than Gavin

Fr Tod Umptious · 08-09-2013 7:54pm

Ace2007 wrote: »

if the ref gave a yellow for hurl on head then he should be barred himself from being a ref again.

I can only assume he gave yellow for all the ball barging with Clare guy

That's a good point, what offense did he give the yellow for, and thus is the other offense reviewable

ebbsy · 08-09-2013 7:59pm

shockframe wrote: »

Classic from Brian Carthy.Right on cue.

'I thought the referee had a great game today'

Liam O'Neill agrees.It was a great game.

He had a great game alright, from a Cork point of view.

Kept them in it the whole way.

rebel girl 15 · 08-09-2013 8:08pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That's a good point, what offense did he give the yellow for, and thus is the other offense reviewable

I do believe that Honan actually hit O Neill on the head first during the tussle for the ball, though that could be accidental, which is why O Neill hit Honan - its no excuse for only getting a yellow

Jarjohn · 08-09-2013 8:40pm

eire 2012 wrote: »

Lets see now if the integrity of the cccc stands up now after today's All Ireland Final.If it does then Shane o Neill will not be playing in the replay.They were very quick to overturn Patrick Horgans red against limerick and today Shane o Neill is clearly seen striking across the head with his hurl ,his second dangerous strike with the hurl this year.He should be having a nice month off now if the cccc is going to apply its own rules properly.

Incident was dealt with by ref and I don't think a witch hunt on Shane O Neill is proper, and also the way Davy Fitz covered it in interview after was piss poor. All players involved deserve to be part of replay.

eire 2012 · 08-09-2013 8:55pm

Jarjohn wrote: »

Incident was dealt with by ref and I don't think a witch hunt on Shane O Neill is proper, and also the way Davy Fitz covered it in interview after was piss poor. All players involved deserve to be part of replay.

The ref also dealt with the Pat Horgan incident but we all know what happened there.This has to be dealt with its his second offence in three matches does he have to knock someone out or what before there is repercussions for him.If a Kk player had done this twice in three matches the whinging on here and in national media would be unbearable.

rebel girl 15 · 08-09-2013 8:57pm

eire 2012 wrote: »

The ref also dealt with the Pat Horgan incident but we all know what happened there.This has to be dealt with its his second offence in three matches does he have to knock someone out or what before there is repercussions for him.If a Kk player had done this twice in three matches the whinging on here and in national media would be unbearable.

Decisions can be appealed, but the CCCC cannot upgrade decision made on the pitch

eire 2012 · 08-09-2013 9:27pm

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Decisions can be appealed, but the CCCC cannot upgrade decision made on the pitch

That's fine but Gavin didn't see the incident and was only going on umpires directions so there could be grounds for this still to be investigated but I doubt anything will happen sure it would ruin the replay and only cork are allowed play against 14

keeponhurling · 08-09-2013 9:58pm

Maybe I'm paranoid, but the chances of CCCC taking action over O'Neill's strike is heavily correlated with how much time RTE spend on this incident on the Sunday Game!

eire 2012 · 08-09-2013 10:08pm

keeponhurling wrote: »

Maybe I'm paranoid, but the chances of CCCC taking action over O'Neill's strike is heavily correlated with how much time RTE spend on this incident on the Sunday Game!

It will be brushed over don't worry Donal Og won't have seen anything and Shane o Neill will be lucky to have stayed on the pitch he is not that type etc etc I'd say it will go something like that

rebel girl 15 · 08-09-2013 10:12pm

eire 2012 wrote: »

That's fine but Gavin didn't see the incident and was only going on umpires directions so there could be grounds for this still to be investigated but I doubt anything will happen sure it would ruin the replay and only cork are allowed play against 14

He definitely saw it alright, sure what did he give the yellow card for, when O Neill was behind Honan, and he was on his way in to speak to the two lads anyway!!!

Seems like you have a bit of a witch hunt against Cork with that last comment, seems like the Munster final v Limerick has been forgotten about!

awec · 08-09-2013 10:14pm

keeponhurling wrote: »

Maybe I'm paranoid, but the chances of CCCC taking action over O'Neill's strike is heavily correlated with how much time RTE spend on this incident on the Sunday Game!

Not a mention so far.

Ace2007 · 08-09-2013 10:19pm

awec wrote: »

Not a mention so far.

skimmed over it...

awec · 08-09-2013 10:21pm

Ace2007 wrote: »

skimmed over it...

I think they mentioned it for about a second.

They're being very critical of Gavin without talking about this incident specifically.

eire 2012 · 08-09-2013 10:25pm

Typical Sunday game serious incident didn't suit them to discuss it brushed over it load of b****x they were able to highlight other teams with Mickey mouse fouls but there is no agenda with either of these teams

Ace2007 · 08-09-2013 10:28pm

awec wrote: »

I think they mentioned it for about a second.

They're being very critical of Gavin without talking about this incident specifically.

funny that in the football Cavanagh's foul got so much coverage, but yet in hurling you can strike a guy across the head with a hurl and only get a yellow and a second coverage on TV.

Regarding Ref's - do they come together and get trained on how to ref, and their performance reviewed, or how is it done?

rebel girl 15 · 08-09-2013 10:34pm

Cavanagh's got so much coverage because it stopped a goal chance.

An assessor would have been in the stands today assessing Gavin's performance. But from what I've heard is that assessors aren't good enough. If referees were to go by the rulebook, the game wouldn't be freeflowing which is what the supporters want. So referees are left between a rock and a hard place about the implementation of the rulebook. The problem with McEnaney as head of the referees is that he is a football ref. Hurling referees need a separate body nearly, and separate rules for certain things. He came out at the start of the year and said there was eight or nine red cards that should have been handed out in the 2012 championship, but were not. That put pressure on the referees straight away.

A panel of intercounty referees are picked, have a number of different tests done, rules and fitness included.

The Integrity Of The CCCC

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