No Soup Kitchen in Ennis?

dr.fuzzenstein

Just spotted this article in the examiner and on the surface it doesn't look good:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/operator-received-upsetting-and-racist-warning-ahead-of-soup-kitchen-opening-241791.html

It seems to paint Ennis in an extremely unfortunate light, where we don't have anything against the poor and the needy, but keep that shower away from my door.

The council has joined in with the residents:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/council-to-back-residents-in-move-against-soup-kitchen-29546516.html

Local man Sean Doyle told Mr Williams outside the kitchen: "This is a private residential area. We are a very tight community here, we are extremely concerned at what you are doing.

That roughly translates as "I'm not a NIMBY, but you aint building that bloody thing in my backyard, sunshine!"

Warnings that no one knew about it could be countered with "read the bloody paper": (Article from 31st January!)

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13103:soup-kitchen-to-open-in-ennis&catid=67:human-interest&Itemid=60

I am a bit concerned about how this makes us look in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Is this really all about Location, Location, Location or is there a fear and loathing to engage with a problem?

dee_mc

I hadn't heard about the proposed soup kitchen in Ennis until yesterday, but I believe the opening of a similar one in Sligo some time ago was welcomed with open arms: I read an article in which it was reported that the locals donated their time, building materials, a CD player etc to get the place up and running.
I heard the man whose project it is interviewed on Clare FM on Tuesday morning and he came across as arrogant in the extreme, even citing the case of Josef Pavelka as an example of Ennis 'failing' its residents, while the residents came across equally badly: 'not in my backyard' seems to be the general consensus. Will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

Lady Chatterton

I really admire what Oliver Williams has done to assist people throughout the country, there has been a huge demand everywhere he has opened a soup kitchen. However, I think he should have sought planning permission before embarking on the Ennis project.

I heard Oliver and Councillor Frankie Neylon discuss this on Newstalk Lunchtime yesterday. I don't think Cllr Neylon came across very well. He made it pretty clear that he didn't feel a soup kitchen was needed in Ennis because SVP and Clarecare were providing a similar service.

I disagree with him, there has been an increased demand for the services offered by SVP and Clarecare in the last few years and they're struggling to meet that demand. I'd say they would be more than happy for Oliver to open a kitchen in Ennis. I hope that the soup kitchen gets the go ahead somewhere in town.

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/listen_back/7/3808/03rd_September_2013_-_Lunchtime_Part_2

(Lunchtime 03/09/13 - Part 2 - 13:00 minutes in)

pilate 1

dee_mc wrote: »

I hadn't heard about the proposed soup kitchen in Ennis until yesterday, but I believe the opening of a similar one in Sligo some time ago was welcomed with open arms: I read an article in which it was reported that the locals donated their time, building materials, a CD player etc to get the place up and running.
I heard the man whose project it is interviewed on Clare FM on Tuesday morning and he came across as arrogant in the extreme, even citing the case of Josef Pavelka as an example of Ennis 'failing' its residents, while the residents came across equally badly: 'not in my backyard' seems to be the general consensus. Will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

is there actually a genuine need of a" soup kitchen" in ennis? and who is it actually aimed at? a lot of services are available through various government bodies and volountry group,s.

Palmach

MrsD007 wrote: »

I really admire what Oliver Williams has done to assist people throughout the country, there has been a huge demand everywhere he has opened a soup kitchen. However, I think he should have sought planning permission before embarking on the Ennis project.

I heard Oliver and Councillor Frankie Neylon discuss this on Newstalk Lunchtime yesterday. I don't think Cllr Neylon came across very well. He made it pretty clear that he didn't feel a soup kitchen was needed in Ennis because SVP and Clarecare were providing a similar service.

I disagree with him, there has been an increased demand for the services offered by SVP and Clarecare in the last few years and they're struggling to meet that demand. I'd say they would be more than happy for Oliver to open a kitchen in Ennis. I hope that the soup kitchen gets the go ahead somewhere in town.

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/listen_back/7/3808/03rd_September_2013_-_Lunchtime_Part_2

(Lunchtime 03/09/13 - Part 2 - 13:00 minutes in)

Personally I'd rather not have this on my street.

dr.fuzzenstein

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7J6v-Idk0A

Father Ted Crilly: What was it he used to say about the needy? He had a term for them...

Father Dougal McGuire: A shower of bastards.

Don't we just hate being reminded of those less fortunate than us. Mary and Joseph would definitely not have gotten a room in Ennis, or even a shed...

Lady Chatterton

Palmach wrote: »

Personally I'd rather not have this on my street.

I think that it might be better not to have it in a residential area, there are plenty of empty business units that could be used though.

maiden

I think this is a badly needed idea in Ennis, people are struggling everywhere, it could be a neighbour, a friend etc BUT not in this area they already have a men's homeless shelter there, that's enough for that part of town
Agree with above plenty of units in the Center of town that this could be perfect for
There is something about this guy and his railroading that I'm not too sure about and yes id have no problem with this in my own backyard

MyKeyG

OK my back garden opens onto the lane in question and this is my opinion. I have no problem with feeding the needy but this isn't the first time a venture has been proposed in the building in question without planning permission. For a number of months it was used as a meeting place for religious worship which is fine, everyone is entitled to their faith. But at every meeting the people in attendance parked their cars in front of private entrances and on a number of occasions actually blocked the lane-way.

Secondly this soup kitchen is not intended merely for those people who have honestly fallen on hard times. It will be open to anyone and everyone including alcohol and substance abusers. We have enough troubles with Flannan's students during the day and god knows who at the early hours of the morning at the weekends getting up to all sorts. It's simply not an appropriate location for such an establishment not to mention the fact that Mr Williams motives appear to a lot of residents to be politically motivated.

Clareman

I was trying to think of a worse spot in town to have something like this and I don't think I'd be able to. There are plenty of other places in town this could take place which would be far better.

Also, and I don't mean to sound too callous, but if you want to open any kind of shop (Charity or profit) you need to get planning permission or have it zoned properly, just because someone thinks they are doing the right thing doesn't mean they can ignore the rules.

Palmach

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Mary and Joseph would definitely not have gotten a room in Ennis, or even a shed...

They didn't have the generous welfare system we have. I hear of families who can't feed their kids but when you look behind the story you see irresponsible parents who have enough for a pint but not enough for a proper breakfast. I have experience of SVP in the town I live and it is incredible to whom they give help. This soup kitchen idea seems to be more about this guy's ego. As Clareman pointed out we have rules and they need to apply to everyone.

golfball37

The responses from the council members are shocking. Progress just not at my place.

You'd swear Mr Williams was Bono the way he has been villified here. Fair play to him I say.

golfball37

Clareman wrote: »

I was trying to think of a worse spot in town to have something like this and I don't think I'd be able to. There are plenty of other places in town this could take place which would be far better.

Also, and I don't mean to sound too callous, but if you want to open any kind of shop (Charity or profit) you need to get planning permission or have it zoned properly, just because someone thinks they are doing the right thing doesn't mean they can ignore the rules.

The rules have been flaunted and ignored when it came to building housing estates or shopping centres that weren't needed. Amazing that Clare people get up on their high horse now when it comes to feeding the poor.

Radio5

golfball37 wrote: »

The rules have been flaunted and ignored when it came to building housing estates or shopping centres that weren't needed. Amazing that Clare people get up on their high horse now when it comes to feeding the poor.

Not to mention building on the flood planes of the River.

Palmach

golfball37 wrote: »

The rules have been flaunted and ignored when it came to building housing estates or shopping centres that weren't needed. Amazing that Clare people get up on their high horse now when it comes to feeding the poor.

Wrong then. Wrong now. Because somebody somewhere broke the law does not mean every has the right to do so.

Am Chile

After I read news articles on this story my first impression was the people who oppose the opening of a soup kitchen to help feed the needy and vulnerable have a very not in my backyard mentality-its a very bad sign of how selfish some people can be when they oppose the opening of a facility to help provide a service to those who are struggling and just about coping- shame of those people who want to stop the opening of a soup. kitchen

Lady Chatterton

Am Chile wrote: »

After I read news articles on this story my first impression was the people who oppose the opening of a soup kitchen to help feed the needy and vulnerable have a very not in my backyard mentality-its a very bad sign of how selfish some people can be when they oppose the opening of a facility to help provide a service to those who are struggling and just about coping- shame of those people who want to stop the opening of a soup. kitchen

To be fair, I think that the main objections relate to the location (the soup kitchen was planned for a residential area, that already has a homeless shelter in the vicinity). The other gripe people have is that Oliver Williams didn't make any planning application. There are definitely people who wouldn't want a soup kitchen anywhere in the town but I'd say they're in a minority.

pilate 1

Am Chile wrote: »

After I read news articles on this story my first impression was the people who oppose the opening of a soup kitchen to help feed the needy and vulnerable have a very not in my backyard mentality-its a very bad sign of how selfish some people can be when they oppose the opening of a facility to help provide a service to those who are struggling and just about coping- shame of those people who want to stop the opening of a soup. kitchen

is there a second impression? i really question if its needed! there is NODODY walking the streets of our country with a belly swoolen from hunger thank whoever youre prophet may be.the support services are there in various forms be the government or ngo.this appears to be a political exercise to me.

Lady Chatterton

pilate 1 wrote: »

is there a second impression? i really question if its needed! there is NODODY walking the streets of our country with a belly swoolen from hunger thank whoever youre prophet may be.the support services are there in various forms be the government or ngo.this appears to be a political exercise to me.

I disagree, there are elderly people who can barely afford to heat their homes. Some have to choose between food and heat, it's worth noting that the fuel allowance has been cut in recent budgets. Apparently, last winter there was an increase in the number of people using libraries in this country, not because they all wanted to borrow books but because some people needed a place to spend a few hours in a warm environment (it saved them the expense of heating their own homes). There have also been numerous reports on radio and television of parents who feed their children but live on breakfast cereal twice a day themselves.

Clareman

You might want to do some research first before taking the moral high ground.

People aren't objecting to feeding the needy, they are questioning the location which is a narrow laneway with a history of anti social activities, next to a busy fuel yard, close to a school without permission. People are also questioning the need for another soup kitchen in Ennis, there are already well established ones, surely his resources would be better used in a more needy location.

Finally, I'm sick and tired of people blaming planning or FF or FG or the Greens or someother cr@p, 2 wrongs do not make a right and whatever about the terrible decisions that were made ultimately they were made by officials who were democratically elected

Am Chile wrote: »

After I read news articles on this story my first impression was the people who oppose the opening of a soup kitchen to help feed the needy and vulnerable have a very not in my backyard mentality-its a very bad sign of how selfish some people can be when they oppose the opening of a facility to help provide a service to those who are struggling and just about coping- shame of those people who want to stop the opening of a soup. kitchen

Balagan

The national reporting about the Twist Soup Kitchens in other towns and cities has been a bit selective to say the least but the local papers are a bit more forthcoming. The Galway one had to be relocated because of no permissions being sought etc., http://www.galwaynews.ie/28959-planners-order-soup-kitchen-cease and also complaints from local businesses surrounding it of anti social behaviour etc. http://www.galwaynews.ie/29991-soup-kitchen-users-%E2%80%98not-control-their-faculties%E2%80%99 Even the alternative venue in Galway seems to be in difficulty and he is now saying that the meals will be 'on a carry-off basis only' http://www.connachttribune.ie/breaking-news/28206-concern-over-plans-to-open-soup-kitchen-in-woodquay. The Athlone Twist Soup Kitchen has also fallen foul of regulations and faces closure. http://www.shannonside.ie/news/efforts-underway-to-close-twist-soup-kitchen-in-athlone/

So while some of the Ennis Councillors remarks are a bit crass (some of them only ever opening their mouths to change feet) and the one reported racist comment from one individual very regrettable, Ennis is far from the only town that has experienced difficulty due to Mr. Williams' policy of getting no permissions, not liaising with anyone about safe and suitable locations, but getting an awful lot of free publicity. His original plan for Ennis of having a constantly open refuge for women and children fleeing domestic violence at the same location as the soup kitchen was off the wall. He dropped that plan. If Mr. Williams gets elected to Galway City Council which he is quoted as aiming for, http://www.galwaynews.ie/31164-oliver-twist-again-new-woodquay-location he'll have to add a bit of knowledge of rules and regulations to his good intentions. A combination of both would maybe lead to safe and discreet help for people and less grandstanding.

I personally don't know where people in need of a free hot meal in Ennis can go but am glad to hear there are such facilities. It would be good to know where they are.

cgarvey

MrsD007 wrote: »

Oliver Williams didn't make any planning application.

He has form on that score (ignoring planning requirements in other towns, and ignoring aviation authority requirements. The Ennis soup kitchen is an "amalgamation with the Hope Assembly" who have form in ignoring planning issues url=http://www.ennistowncouncil.ie/planning/planning-applications/planning-lists/appreceived190413-18138.pdf]1[/urlurl=http://www.ennistowncouncil.ie/planning/planning-applications/planning-lists/apprefused080213-17823.pdf]2[/url.

Doesn't excuse some of the comments/NIMBYism coming out of this story, though. He has ruffled a few feathers along the way, but you'd have to say his intentions are good. If only he could follow the rules and, perhaps, work alongside other organisations with similar goals.

EDIT: I hadn't noticed Blagan's post (it wasn't there when I started my post), so sorry for some duplicate points!

MyKeyG

I resent the comments on this page suggesting the locals are being callous. Why are people being so obtuse? I wonder if these people woke up in the morning and druggies and alcoholics were being welcomed into their area how would they feel? The arguments have been made. A) Williams thinks the law doesn't apply to him. He's looking for election, I doubt he could care less about the needy (granted that's my opinion not Boards). C) It's a secluded location where not only people who really need such a service but also people who choose to spend their dole on booze and narcotics will congregate.

In the past few months Clonroad lane has become a location for Flannan's lads having fights, youngsters drinking, drugging up and vandalizing property. We are not a rubbish tip.

Get it through your heads. Nobody is saying we don't want a soup kitchen but this is not the location!!!

And I would add the Gardai have been called a number of times specifically by locals who have opposed previous enterprises in said building regarding the use of intimidation. WE'VE HAD ENOUGH!!!

I wasn't actively opposed to this project before but if people are going to put us down while they live in peace in their own residential areas then by god I'm involved now!!!

Clareboy

When I first heard the objections of local residents to the proposed soup kitchen off Clare Road, I just imagined that is was just another case of - NIMBY - No In My Backyard. Now that I have seen the building, I would have to agree with the residents that it is totally unsuitable for a soup kitchen. The lane leading to the building is extremely narrow and would be a serious hazard for pedestrians using the facility, especially if they were wheelchair users or parents with buggies. I cannot figure out why a building on such a narrow lane was given planning permission for commercial use.

Mayoindublin

Some of the comments are a little ill informed. There are a lot of people hungry in Ireland today. People on social welfare with young school going children are struggling to feed their families. The motion that all hungry people are "druggies and alcoholics" is just not true. I work in this area as a volunteer in Dublin and, unless Ennis is an oasis in the country, I can't see how it can be different. As for drug abusers and alcoholics, it's easy to condemn but every one I know has a horrendous background. Abuse, violence, abandonment etc. one heroin user described it as the only way to run way from memories. I wonder how many people go to church on a Sunday. Christianity is surely about looking after the poor, dispossessed, marginalised particularly when it is uncomfortable. I know nothing about Mr. Williams but if the soup kitchen isn't needed it will be empty and will close. If it is needed, he is vindicated. as to location, it's difficult to comment other than to say that no alternative locations seem to be put forward by the council or others other than a broad 'it doesn't suit here'. It really doesn't paint Clare in a good light

Lady Chatterton

Ennis Town Council have served a warning letter on Oliver Williams. If convicted in court of operating his unauthorised soup kitchen he could face up to six months in prison or a fine up to €12,697.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/soup-kitchen-boss-warned-he-faces-jail-over-planning-row-29560106.html

It's a shame that both parties don't seem to be interested in working together to find a more appropriate site which meets planning and all other regulations. I think there are wrongs on both sides, Williams obviously has rubbed everyone up the wrong way by parachuting in and opening up where he wanted. On the other side, it is apparent that some members of the council don't want a soup kitchen anywhere and will object no matter where it is.

As far as I know there are no other 'soup kitchens' in Ennis that are open to all. Clarecare offer a meal to the elderly, SVP do try to assist needy families and there is a hostel for homeless men. However, there is no place for someone to drop in for a hot meal if they're down on their luck.

dr.fuzzenstein

If he gets jail for opening a soup kitchen I renounce this country and will personally piss on the desk of whoever authorised that.

Clareman

MrsD007 wrote: »

As far as I know there are no other 'soup kitchens' in Ennis that are open to all. Clarecare offer a meal to the elderly, SVP do try to assist needy families and there is a hostel for homeless men. However, there is no place for someone to drop in for a hot meal if they're down on their luck.

I'm almost 100% positive that the Poor Clares give meals out, I know that the nuns used to when I was younger at where is now Temple Gate

Lady Chatterton

Clareman wrote: »

I'm almost 100% positive that the Poor Clares give meals out, I know that the nuns used to when I was younger at where is now Temple Gate

Are you sure about the Poor Clares giving out meals? I occasionally visit the Poor Clares chapel and I see people visiting the nuns or asking for prayers etc. but I've never heard anything about a soup kitchen.

The Sisters of Mercy used to have a convent where the Temple Gate is, they relocated to a smaller building (off Station Road) around 1990.

angelfire9

Clareman wrote: »

I'm almost 100% positive that the Poor Clares give meals out, I know that the nuns used to when I was younger at where is now Temple Gate

That was the sisters of mercy
The poor Clare's are an enclosed order

MyKeyG

Oh God this just gets worse and worse. Did people come on this page with the intention of just seeing what they wanted in other comments? I have never come across so many obtuse people in my life. I tell you what guys, come on down here whenever you want. You'll get to meet the guy from the Mens shelter that exposed himself to my neighbours while drunk even though drinking isn't permitted there. You can place a few bob on the Flannan's lads beating ten shades of s**t out of each other at lunch in our back yards. Park your car here over the weekend if you like but be ready to buy new tires come Monday, don't worry you can shop for them while you're shopping for new glass for your broken windows.

Nobody said all those on welfare were druggies and alcoholics, nobody said they judged those who were. Fuzzenstein you talk about pissing on things? Well the wino's that piss all over the Holy Family School that my father has to wash up every morning are the kind of people who will be using this place as well as the needy. If you feel so strongly why don't you open your own bloody kitchen and feed them?

You can hate us if ye want but ye're hypocritical keyboard warrior nonsense only strengthens the resolve of the residents of St Flannans terrace. We will not be intimidated and we will not live in fear of our children playing out their own back lane. None of us are against a soup kitchen but we deserve the right to be concerned about the element that a venture in such a secluded area will bring in.

blowin3

Well said but our society reflects this forum you have to be political correct. Its all about we must help these people even if they don't want to be helped. I complained once about a family that had been moved next door to me on a private estate who shouted and roared all night while drinking dumped their rubbish out the back of my house. I even got a house call from the Clare county council about dumping rubbish, he was standing next to a paid Mr Bin man bin but next door no bin. When I pointed this out he drove off. I went to the health board and the nice lady asked me was I "a raciest" I said no but why don't you put them next you or are back to the houses I paid for as a tax payer that they burnt down.

Am Chile

Some of the attitudes on here who dont want a soup kitchen in the area- remind me of the no blacks/no irish/no dogs signs pubowners used to have one time in the uk.

Lady Chatterton

Am Chile, you're deliberately being provocative, please stop trolling.

Am Chile

MrsD007 wrote: »

Am Chile, you're deliberately being provocative, please stop trolling.

IM not trying to troll- far from it- IM being thought provocative applying critical thinking looking at this- those who are against a soup kitchen in an area to serve people in need- do you see not any difference with your stance and outlook with no irish signs in uk pubs most of our older relatives would of faced at one point in time ?

Lady Chatterton

Am Chile wrote: »

IM not trying to troll- far from it- IM being thought provocative applying critical thinking looking at this- those who are against a soup kitchen in an area to serve people in need- do you see not any difference with your stance and outlook with no irish signs in uk pubs most of our older relatives would of faced at one point in time ?

Residents are complaining that Oliver Williams opened a soup kitchen WITHOUT planning permission in a residential area. There is also a homeless shelter already in the vicinity.

I feel that your remarks are inaccurate and inflammatory in this particular instance.

CommanderC

MyKeyG wrote: »

Oh God this just gets worse and worse. Did people come on this page with the intention of just seeing what they wanted in other comments? I have never come across so many obtuse people in my life. I tell you what guys, come on down here whenever you want. You'll get to meet the guy from the Mens shelter that exposed himself to my neighbours while drunk even though drinking isn't permitted there. You can place a few bob on the Flannan's lads beating ten shades of s**t out of each other at lunch in our back yards. Park your car here over the weekend if you like but be ready to buy new tires come Monday, don't worry you can shop for them while you're shopping for new glass for your broken windows.

Nobody said all those on welfare were druggies and alcoholics, nobody said they judged those who were. Fuzzenstein you talk about pissing on things? Well the wino's that piss all over the Holy Family School that my father has to wash up every morning are the kind of people who will be using this place as well as the needy. If you feel so strongly why don't you open your own bloody kitchen and feed them?

You can hate us if ye want but ye're hypocritical keyboard warrior nonsense only strengthens the resolve of the residents of St Flannans terrace. We will not be intimidated and we will not live in fear of our children playing out their own back lane. None of us are against a soup kitchen but we deserve the right to be concerned about the element that a venture in such a secluded area will bring in.

It sounds, from your description, that perhaps the services that currently operate in that area, while obviously trying their best, are perhaps struggling to cope and to provide a service to those in need while preventing their operation from infringing on those around them.

A new operation establishing in the area may relieve some of the pressure on existing charities, enabling all of them to operate, for want of a better word, more efficiently and with a lesser impact on the surrounding area.

periodictable

Yep he should have sought planning permission or opened one in a commercial and central part of the town.
However I was disgusted to read of alleged threats by Ennis Town Council where court and possible imprisonment was mentioned.
I seem to remember a well known large structure on an elevated site built in the grounds of a private house on the west of Ennis, where retention was sought and given, and no such threats issued.

dr.fuzzenstein

You just have to play golf with the right people.

Clareman

periodictable wrote: »

I seem to remember a well known large structure on an elevated site built in the grounds of a private house on the west of Ennis, where retention was sought and given, and no such threats issued.

Not really comparing apples with apples there. The other building you are talking about is a private residence and there wasn't any objections to the retention request.

periodictable

No it's who you know.
Ode was about personal aggrandizement, the other about giving others a helping hand.
Anyone remember Bowsie Casey being made to demolish a simple extension to his house near the Eire Og Club?
Better not disturb the status quo, our self-styled "betters" don't like it.

Lady Chatterton

periodictable wrote: »

No it's who you know.
Ode was about personal aggrandizement, the other about giving others a helping hand.
Anyone remember Bowsie Casey being made to demolish a simple extension to his house near the Eire Og Club?
Better not disturb the status quo, our self-styled "betters" don't like it.

I remember that, to be fair, it wasn't a simple extension, he built a house. From what I remember Bowsie had a lot of support in the community and people felt he was hard done by. Bowsie wanted to provide a house for each of his children, tragically, one of his sons died within a year or two of the house being demolished.

The council rarely ever demolish properties but every now and then they like to make an example of people.

KarmaBaby

MyKeyG wrote: »

Oh God this just gets worse and worse. Did people come on this page with the intention of just seeing what they wanted in other comments? I have never come across so many obtuse people in my life. I tell you what guys, come on down here whenever you want. You'll get to meet the guy from the Mens shelter that exposed himself to my neighbours while drunk even though drinking isn't permitted there. You can place a few bob on the Flannan's lads beating ten shades of s**t out of each other at lunch in our back yards. Park your car here over the weekend if you like but be ready to buy new tires come Monday, don't worry you can shop for them while you're shopping for new glass for your broken windows.

Nobody said all those on welfare were druggies and alcoholics, nobody said they judged those who were. Fuzzenstein you talk about pissing on things? Well the wino's that piss all over the Holy Family School that my father has to wash up every morning are the kind of people who will be using this place as well as the needy. If you feel so strongly why don't you open your own bloody kitchen and feed them?

You can hate us if ye want but ye're hypocritical keyboard warrior nonsense only strengthens the resolve of the residents of St Flannans terrace. We will not be intimidated and we will not live in fear of our children playing out their own back lane. None of us are against a soup kitchen but we deserve the right to be concerned about the element that a venture in such a secluded area will bring in.

Have tyres actually been stolen from cars in the estate as a result of those individuals being attracted to the area by the soup kitchen or is this something you've just made up? Have car windows been broken?

What evidence is there that crimes have been committed or that residents have been intimidated by people attending the soup kitchen? If this is the case, are these people living elsewhere in Ennis or are they already living in your area?

Claregirl

Am Chile wrote: »

Some of the attitudes on here who dont want a soup kitchen in the area- remind me of the no blacks/no irish/no dogs signs pubowners used to have one time in the uk.

KarmaBaby wrote: »

Have tyres actually been stolen from cars in the estate as a result of those individuals being attracted to the area by the soup kitchen or is this something you've just made up? Have car windows been broken?

What evidence is there that crimes have been committed or that residents have been intimidated by people attending the soup kitchen? If this is the case, are these people living elsewhere in Ennis or are they already living in your area?

It's posts like these that really make me wish there was a thumbs down symbol as well as a thank post symbol. I'll be honest on this I would certainly object if a soup kitchen, hostel or any other sort of business opened up in my residential area. Seriously this is off the wall and MyKeyG you have my full sympathies no-one should have to put up with what ye are currently enduring.

Hopefully both sides will see sense and site this facility in a more suitable location perhaps beside the Garda Station, Ennis Town Hall or another public office not one in the heart of a residential area.

I certainly wouldn't want to see it in the centre of town from my own point of view if God forbid I ever found myself in need of these services I would like to think that the whole of Ennis would not observe me making use of them at least sited near public buildings you'd have more than one legitimate reason for being in the location.

There should not be a need for soup kitchens but it's easy to see how this is happening when keeping a roof over your head and keeping warm now costs so much - income has been reduced while outgoings are continuing to rise at an alarming rate. It's depressing to think that we've sunk so low as a country that people are in need of food but unfortunately the way things are going I fear that more people will need to avail of these services in time to come.

MyKeyG in relation to the Flannan's students might I suggest taking a few photo's / videos and presenting them to the Head teacher of Flannans & Gardaí?

MyKeyG

KarmaBaby wrote: »

Have tyres actually been stolen from cars in the estate as a result of those individuals being attracted to the area by the soup kitchen or is this something you've just made up? Have car windows been broken?

What evidence is there that crimes have been committed or that residents have been intimidated by people attending the soup kitchen? If this is the case, are these people living elsewhere in Ennis or are they already living in your area?

Again! Obtuse! I never said it was because of the soup kitchen. The point I'm trying to make, yet again, is that it is a secluded area that in the past few months has become a haven for crime. Yes my neighbours BMW tires were slashed, two of them at €500 a go and the same night windows broken in houses. By the way I don't have to make anything up, how dare you! The Garda reports speak for themselves.
We've asked the Guards to send a patrol at lunch time. I know their time and resources are stretched but you'd sooner see a leprechaun riding a unicorn down the lane before a squad car.
Now I can't put this any clearer than in plain English. Not just the needy will be using this facility. There will be alcohol and drug abusers coming to a secluded area where our children play, who's going to supervise them? YOU!!! I don't think so. There are plenty of people on dole and rent allowance who get by. Why not these people? Why can't they afford food?
We have empty buildings coming out of our ears in this town I have nothing against a soup kitchen I simply don't want to see it in an area where we already have enough on our hands with students during the day and drunken revelers at night.

Claregirl <Mod snip> Flannans has been approached numerous times and <Mod snip> [their] attitude left a lot to be desired. In no uncertain terms we were told that it wasn't their problem off the premises. In my opinion when you're in the uniform you reflect the name of the school.

Look just as an extra point let me say this. If it hadn't been done so underhanded and locals were given the information in due time to consider we may not come across so militant but many residents only found out about this in the last two weeks. There was no planning submitted for this building, AGAIN, and we weren't informed now why was that? Why so sneaky? And as repetition for emphasis this isn't the first venture that was planned for this building without permission. The only reason its available as a soup kitchen is because the planning for the church meetings having been finally submitted was rejected.

maiden

KarmaBaby wrote: »

Have tyres actually been stolen from cars in the estate as a result of those individuals being attracted to the area by the soup kitchen or is this something you've just made up? Have car windows been broken?

What evidence is there that crimes have been committed or that residents have been intimidated by people attending the soup kitchen? If this is the case, are these people living elsewhere in Ennis or are they already living in your area?

Wow, a totally inappropriate comment, it's a pity people don't read other members posts correctly before replying and making a comment like this

This isn't about in my back garden, but the holier than thou brigade can't seen to see what other members have posted either that or they choose to ignore it, the debate is very clear here NO ONE SAID IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, it's a question of where it should be and the fact that it has to follow planning rules like everyone else

I'm all for a soup kitchen but why put it where there is anti social behaviour already, that doesn't make sense,
So my question is to karma baby, and others on here, are you happy for it to go next door to you? If so, let the council know that you and the residents in your area are happy for this to be set up beside you, There may be an empty house two doors from you that would be perfect for this! And the council I'm sure will be delighted to hear from you and your neighbours, let us know how you get on? The perfect happy compromise I think!

Claregirl

I'm surprised at St. Flannans attitude given the punishments handed out for wearing the wrong colour shoes:rolleyes:

I'm not saying the school should take full responsibility for this (Parents have a role to play here too) but surely the school would be able to identify the pupils and if they don't want / can't be ar%ed dealing with it at least inform parents.

If I thought my young fella was involved in something like this he'd be dealt with :mad:.

Balagan

MyKeyG wrote: »

......
<Mod snip> Flannans has been approached numerous times and <Mod snip> [their] attitude left a lot to be desired. In no uncertain terms we were told that it wasn't their problem off the premises. In my opinion when you're in the uniform you reflect the name of the school.

They certainly do represent the name of the school wherever and whenever they are in uniform! Never quite understood why droves of Flannans' students use that lane. It's not a shortcut to anywhere for them, is it? Am surprised that the College says what happens off campus is not its problem. Time was when the now retired Principal would recognize a bunch of kids from brief descriptions and get issues dealt with smartish whether they were taking place on or off campus. Have the residents sent signed and registered letters to the Board of Management and the Parents Association setting out the anti social issues involved?

MyKeyG

Balagan wrote: »

They certainly do represent the name of the school wherever and whenever they are in uniform! Never quite understood why droves of Flannans' students use that lane. It's not a shortcut to anywhere for them, is it? Am surprised that the College says what happens off campus is not its problem. Time was when the now retired Principal would recognize a bunch of kids from brief descriptions and get issues dealt with smartish whether they were taking place on or off campus. Have the residents sent signed and registered letters to the Board of Management and the Parents Association setting out the anti social issues involved?

Well that's my point. They go there for the very reason that it's so secluded, that's what makes it so popular with the kids and late night revelers up to no good.
We describe it as a country lane in the middle of town. They know that up the town there are business owners, members of the public and even the Gardai around. Look kids will be kids, guys and girls come up for a bit of a snog but most of them come up to misbehave with impunity. The other week they were setting off fire works and I merely said 'Lads this is a residential area cop on' he replied 'Does your dog fancy one up his hole?' By the time I got my phone out to take a picture they had bolted. We don't need this.
We have made official written complaints to the School and the Gardai. The problem is that it's a public lane we can't stop anyone from coming up it but we still have to deal with it. And my point is we don't need yet another potential powder keg of trouble if a certain element given to a lifestyle of drugs and alcohol abuse were to be attracted to the lane out of the view of the authorities.
I have every sympathy for people who have fallen into such a life. It's very often because of a hard childhood or depression. But unfortunately it doesn't change the reality that their conduct in other areas of town such as the Holy Family school as I explained in a previous post has proven to be anti social in the least.

Clareman

For the people that don't know this laneway I would ask that you have a look at it on Google Maps to get an idea of the issues that people are talking about http://goo.gl/maps/wqzoR

I just noticed that when I put in the "Walking Directions" into Google that it warned

Use caution – This route may be missing sidewalks or pedestrian paths.

That's not really good for a business designed for serving people without cars or other modes of transport.

KarmaBaby

maiden wrote: »

Wow, a totally inappropriate comment, it's a pity people don't read other members posts correctly before replying and making a comment like this

This isn't about in my back garden, but the holier than thou brigade can't seen to see what other members have posted either that or they choose to ignore it, the debate is very clear here NO ONE SAID IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, it's a question of where it should be and the fact that it has to follow planning rules like everyone else

I'm all for a soup kitchen but why put it where there is anti social behaviour already, that doesn't make sense,
So my question is to karma baby, and others on here, are you happy for it to go next door to you? If so, let the council know that you and the residents in your area are happy for this to be set up beside you, There may be an empty house two doors from you that would be perfect for this! And the council I'm sure will be delighted to hear from you and your neighbours, let us know how you get on? The perfect happy compromise I think!

Could you please show me exactly where I stated that I thought the location of the Soup Kitchen was appropriate? I have made only one very brief post in this thread and it was responded to by several angry residents making wild assumptions about my position, before I've even stated it. This is precisely the proiblem here. The anger of residents is being directed unconstructively and in the wrong direction.

Wether it was intentional or not, Mikey implied by association that the existence of the Soup Kitchen would increase crime rates in the area and present a danger to familes. But it is very clear that this danger existed independent of and before the Soup Kitchen's existnece, so I would like to know exactly why incidents of crime are constantly being brought up in this thread, when clearly, the Soup Kitchen is not responsible for them.

Having previously worked in Soup Kitchens in residential areas of Istanbul, I can tell you that should a Soup Kitchen open up in my area in Ireland, I would be the first person to volunteer to work in it. However, I actually agree that a better location should be found.

The problem with those opposed to the Soup kitchen in this thread, is that for all their criticisms of the proprietor, they too have failed to come up with a viable alternative. I would propose that residents should organise and do two things.

Firsly, instead of attacking the proprietor of the Soup Kitchen and taking a legal battle against him. WORK WITH HIM to find a more appropriate central location in Ennis for the soup kitchen. Why haven't you done this?

Secondly since there is obviously a lot of anger of certain societal issues in your area, such as crime and poverty, then instead of organising against a man that is trying to help with this problem, organise and direct your anger at the local council and politicians that are supporting austerity policies which are driving families into poverty and crime.

The Soup Kitchen exists, because of Austerity, but incredibly, having searched through the thread, I am the first person to make that point.