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No Soup Kitchen in Ennis?

dr.fuzzenstein

Just spotted this article in the examiner and on the surface it doesn't look good:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/operator-received-upsetting-and-racist-warning-ahead-of-soup-kitchen-opening-241791.html

It seems to paint Ennis in an extremely unfortunate light, where we don't have anything against the poor and the needy, but keep that shower away from my door.

The council has joined in with the residents:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/council-to-back-residents-in-move-against-soup-kitchen-29546516.html

Local man Sean Doyle told Mr Williams outside the kitchen: "This is a private residential area. We are a very tight community here, we are extremely concerned at what you are doing.

That roughly translates as "I'm not a NIMBY, but you aint building that bloody thing in my backyard, sunshine!"

Warnings that no one knew about it could be countered with "read the bloody paper": (Article from 31st January!)

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13103:soup-kitchen-to-open-in-ennis&catid=67:human-interest&Itemid=60

I am a bit concerned about how this makes us look in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Is this really all about Location, Location, Location or is there a fear and loathing to engage with a problem?

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dee_mc

I hadn't heard about the proposed soup kitchen in Ennis until yesterday, but I believe the opening of a similar one in Sligo some time ago was welcomed with open arms: I read an article in which it was reported that the locals donated their time, building materials, a CD player etc to get the place up and running.
I heard the man whose project it is interviewed on Clare FM on Tuesday morning and he came across as arrogant in the extreme, even citing the case of Josef Pavelka as an example of Ennis 'failing' its residents, while the residents came across equally badly: 'not in my backyard' seems to be the general consensus. Will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

Lady Chatterton

I really admire what Oliver Williams has done to assist people throughout the country, there has been a huge demand everywhere he has opened a soup kitchen. However, I think he should have sought planning permission before embarking on the Ennis project.

I heard Oliver and Councillor Frankie Neylon discuss this on Newstalk Lunchtime yesterday. I don't think Cllr Neylon came across very well. He made it pretty clear that he didn't feel a soup kitchen was needed in Ennis because SVP and Clarecare were providing a similar service.

I disagree with him, there has been an increased demand for the services offered by SVP and Clarecare in the last few years and they're struggling to meet that demand. I'd say they would be more than happy for Oliver to open a kitchen in Ennis. I hope that the soup kitchen gets the go ahead somewhere in town.

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/listen_back/7/3808/03rd_September_2013_-_Lunchtime_Part_2

(Lunchtime 03/09/13 - Part 2 - 13:00 minutes in)

pilate 1

dee_mc wrote: »

I hadn't heard about the proposed soup kitchen in Ennis until yesterday, but I believe the opening of a similar one in Sligo some time ago was welcomed with open arms: I read an article in which it was reported that the locals donated their time, building materials, a CD player etc to get the place up and running.
I heard the man whose project it is interviewed on Clare FM on Tuesday morning and he came across as arrogant in the extreme, even citing the case of Josef Pavelka as an example of Ennis 'failing' its residents, while the residents came across equally badly: 'not in my backyard' seems to be the general consensus. Will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

is there actually a genuine need of a" soup kitchen" in ennis? and who is it actually aimed at? a lot of services are available through various government bodies and volountry group,s.

Palmach

MrsD007 wrote: »

I really admire what Oliver Williams has done to assist people throughout the country, there has been a huge demand everywhere he has opened a soup kitchen. However, I think he should have sought planning permission before embarking on the Ennis project.

I heard Oliver and Councillor Frankie Neylon discuss this on Newstalk Lunchtime yesterday. I don't think Cllr Neylon came across very well. He made it pretty clear that he didn't feel a soup kitchen was needed in Ennis because SVP and Clarecare were providing a similar service.

I disagree with him, there has been an increased demand for the services offered by SVP and Clarecare in the last few years and they're struggling to meet that demand. I'd say they would be more than happy for Oliver to open a kitchen in Ennis. I hope that the soup kitchen gets the go ahead somewhere in town.

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/listen_back/7/3808/03rd_September_2013_-_Lunchtime_Part_2

(Lunchtime 03/09/13 - Part 2 - 13:00 minutes in)

Personally I'd rather not have this on my street.

dr.fuzzenstein

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7J6v-Idk0A

Father Ted Crilly: What was it he used to say about the needy? He had a term for them...

Father Dougal McGuire: A shower of bastards.

Don't we just hate being reminded of those less fortunate than us. Mary and Joseph would definitely not have gotten a room in Ennis, or even a shed...

Lady Chatterton

Palmach wrote: »

Personally I'd rather not have this on my street.

I think that it might be better not to have it in a residential area, there are plenty of empty business units that could be used though.

maiden

I think this is a badly needed idea in Ennis, people are struggling everywhere, it could be a neighbour, a friend etc BUT not in this area they already have a men's homeless shelter there, that's enough for that part of town
Agree with above plenty of units in the Center of town that this could be perfect for
There is something about this guy and his railroading that I'm not too sure about and yes id have no problem with this in my own backyard

MyKeyG

OK my back garden opens onto the lane in question and this is my opinion. I have no problem with feeding the needy but this isn't the first time a venture has been proposed in the building in question without planning permission. For a number of months it was used as a meeting place for religious worship which is fine, everyone is entitled to their faith. But at every meeting the people in attendance parked their cars in front of private entrances and on a number of occasions actually blocked the lane-way.

Secondly this soup kitchen is not intended merely for those people who have honestly fallen on hard times. It will be open to anyone and everyone including alcohol and substance abusers. We have enough troubles with Flannan's students during the day and god knows who at the early hours of the morning at the weekends getting up to all sorts. It's simply not an appropriate location for such an establishment not to mention the fact that Mr Williams motives appear to a lot of residents to be politically motivated.

Clareman

I was trying to think of a worse spot in town to have something like this and I don't think I'd be able to. There are plenty of other places in town this could take place which would be far better.

Also, and I don't mean to sound too callous, but if you want to open any kind of shop (Charity or profit) you need to get planning permission or have it zoned properly, just because someone thinks they are doing the right thing doesn't mean they can ignore the rules.

Palmach

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Mary and Joseph would definitely not have gotten a room in Ennis, or even a shed...

They didn't have the generous welfare system we have. I hear of families who can't feed their kids but when you look behind the story you see irresponsible parents who have enough for a pint but not enough for a proper breakfast. I have experience of SVP in the town I live and it is incredible to whom they give help. This soup kitchen idea seems to be more about this guy's ego. As Clareman pointed out we have rules and they need to apply to everyone.

golfball37

The responses from the council members are shocking. Progress just not at my place.

You'd swear Mr Williams was Bono the way he has been villified here. Fair play to him I say.

golfball37

Clareman wrote: »

I was trying to think of a worse spot in town to have something like this and I don't think I'd be able to. There are plenty of other places in town this could take place which would be far better.

Also, and I don't mean to sound too callous, but if you want to open any kind of shop (Charity or profit) you need to get planning permission or have it zoned properly, just because someone thinks they are doing the right thing doesn't mean they can ignore the rules.

The rules have been flaunted and ignored when it came to building housing estates or shopping centres that weren't needed. Amazing that Clare people get up on their high horse now when it comes to feeding the poor.

Radio5

golfball37 wrote: »

The rules have been flaunted and ignored when it came to building housing estates or shopping centres that weren't needed. Amazing that Clare people get up on their high horse now when it comes to feeding the poor.

Not to mention building on the flood planes of the River.

Palmach

golfball37 wrote: »

The rules have been flaunted and ignored when it came to building housing estates or shopping centres that weren't needed. Amazing that Clare people get up on their high horse now when it comes to feeding the poor.

Wrong then. Wrong now. Because somebody somewhere broke the law does not mean every has the right to do so.

Am Chile

After I read news articles on this story my first impression was the people who oppose the opening of a soup kitchen to help feed the needy and vulnerable have a very not in my backyard mentality-its a very bad sign of how selfish some people can be when they oppose the opening of a facility to help provide a service to those who are struggling and just about coping- shame of those people who want to stop the opening of a soup. kitchen

Lady Chatterton

Am Chile wrote: »

After I read news articles on this story my first impression was the people who oppose the opening of a soup kitchen to help feed the needy and vulnerable have a very not in my backyard mentality-its a very bad sign of how selfish some people can be when they oppose the opening of a facility to help provide a service to those who are struggling and just about coping- shame of those people who want to stop the opening of a soup. kitchen

To be fair, I think that the main objections relate to the location (the soup kitchen was planned for a residential area, that already has a homeless shelter in the vicinity). The other gripe people have is that Oliver Williams didn't make any planning application. There are definitely people who wouldn't want a soup kitchen anywhere in the town but I'd say they're in a minority.

pilate 1

Am Chile wrote: »

After I read news articles on this story my first impression was the people who oppose the opening of a soup kitchen to help feed the needy and vulnerable have a very not in my backyard mentality-its a very bad sign of how selfish some people can be when they oppose the opening of a facility to help provide a service to those who are struggling and just about coping- shame of those people who want to stop the opening of a soup. kitchen

is there a second impression? i really question if its needed! there is NODODY walking the streets of our country with a belly swoolen from hunger thank whoever youre prophet may be.the support services are there in various forms be the government or ngo.this appears to be a political exercise to me.

Lady Chatterton

pilate 1 wrote: »

is there a second impression? i really question if its needed! there is NODODY walking the streets of our country with a belly swoolen from hunger thank whoever youre prophet may be.the support services are there in various forms be the government or ngo.this appears to be a political exercise to me.

I disagree, there are elderly people who can barely afford to heat their homes. Some have to choose between food and heat, it's worth noting that the fuel allowance has been cut in recent budgets. Apparently, last winter there was an increase in the number of people using libraries in this country, not because they all wanted to borrow books but because some people needed a place to spend a few hours in a warm environment (it saved them the expense of heating their own homes). There have also been numerous reports on radio and television of parents who feed their children but live on breakfast cereal twice a day themselves.

Clareman

You might want to do some research first before taking the moral high ground.

People aren't objecting to feeding the needy, they are questioning the location which is a narrow laneway with a history of anti social activities, next to a busy fuel yard, close to a school without permission. People are also questioning the need for another soup kitchen in Ennis, there are already well established ones, surely his resources would be better used in a more needy location.

Finally, I'm sick and tired of people blaming planning or FF or FG or the Greens or someother cr@p, 2 wrongs do not make a right and whatever about the terrible decisions that were made ultimately they were made by officials who were democratically elected

Am Chile wrote: »

After I read news articles on this story my first impression was the people who oppose the opening of a soup kitchen to help feed the needy and vulnerable have a very not in my backyard mentality-its a very bad sign of how selfish some people can be when they oppose the opening of a facility to help provide a service to those who are struggling and just about coping- shame of those people who want to stop the opening of a soup. kitchen

Balagan

The national reporting about the Twist Soup Kitchens in other towns and cities has been a bit selective to say the least but the local papers are a bit more forthcoming. The Galway one had to be relocated because of no permissions being sought etc., http://www.galwaynews.ie/28959-planners-order-soup-kitchen-cease and also complaints from local businesses surrounding it of anti social behaviour etc. http://www.galwaynews.ie/29991-soup-kitchen-users-%E2%80%98not-control-their-faculties%E2%80%99 Even the alternative venue in Galway seems to be in difficulty and he is now saying that the meals will be 'on a carry-off basis only' http://www.connachttribune.ie/breaking-news/28206-concern-over-plans-to-open-soup-kitchen-in-woodquay. The Athlone Twist Soup Kitchen has also fallen foul of regulations and faces closure. http://www.shannonside.ie/news/efforts-underway-to-close-twist-soup-kitchen-in-athlone/

So while some of the Ennis Councillors remarks are a bit crass (some of them only ever opening their mouths to change feet) and the one reported racist comment from one individual very regrettable, Ennis is far from the only town that has experienced difficulty due to Mr. Williams' policy of getting no permissions, not liaising with anyone about safe and suitable locations, but getting an awful lot of free publicity. His original plan for Ennis of having a constantly open refuge for women and children fleeing domestic violence at the same location as the soup kitchen was off the wall. He dropped that plan. If Mr. Williams gets elected to Galway City Council which he is quoted as aiming for, http://www.galwaynews.ie/31164-oliver-twist-again-new-woodquay-location he'll have to add a bit of knowledge of rules and regulations to his good intentions. A combination of both would maybe lead to safe and discreet help for people and less grandstanding.

I personally don't know where people in need of a free hot meal in Ennis can go but am glad to hear there are such facilities. It would be good to know where they are.

cgarvey

MrsD007 wrote: »

Oliver Williams didn't make any planning application.

He has form on that score (ignoring planning requirements in other towns, and ignoring aviation authority requirements. The Ennis soup kitchen is an "amalgamation with the Hope Assembly" who have form in ignoring planning issues url=http://www.ennistowncouncil.ie/planning/planning-applications/planning-lists/appreceived190413-18138.pdf]1[/url url=http://www.ennistowncouncil.ie/planning/planning-applications/planning-lists/apprefused080213-17823.pdf]2[/url.

Doesn't excuse some of the comments/NIMBYism coming out of this story, though. He has ruffled a few feathers along the way, but you'd have to say his intentions are good. If only he could follow the rules and, perhaps, work alongside other organisations with similar goals.

EDIT: I hadn't noticed Blagan's post (it wasn't there when I started my post), so sorry for some duplicate points!

MyKeyG

I resent the comments on this page suggesting the locals are being callous. Why are people being so obtuse? I wonder if these people woke up in the morning and druggies and alcoholics were being welcomed into their area how would they feel? The arguments have been made. A) Williams thinks the law doesn't apply to him.

He's looking for election, I doubt he could care less about the needy (granted that's my opinion not Boards). C) It's a secluded location where not only people who really need such a service but also people who choose to spend their dole on booze and narcotics will congregate.

In the past few months Clonroad lane has become a location for Flannan's lads having fights, youngsters drinking, drugging up and vandalizing property. We are not a rubbish tip.

Get it through your heads. Nobody is saying we don't want a soup kitchen but this is not the location!!!

And I would add the Gardai have been called a number of times specifically by locals who have opposed previous enterprises in said building regarding the use of intimidation. WE'VE HAD ENOUGH!!!

I wasn't actively opposed to this project before but if people are going to put us down while they live in peace in their own residential areas then by god I'm involved now!!!

Clareboy

When I first heard the objections of local residents to the proposed soup kitchen off Clare Road, I just imagined that is was just another case of - NIMBY - No In My Backyard. Now that I have seen the building, I would have to agree with the residents that it is totally unsuitable for a soup kitchen. The lane leading to the building is extremely narrow and would be a serious hazard for pedestrians using the facility, especially if they were wheelchair users or parents with buggies. I cannot figure out why a building on such a narrow lane was given planning permission for commercial use.

Mayoindublin

Some of the comments are a little ill informed. There are a lot of people hungry in Ireland today. People on social welfare with young school going children are struggling to feed their families. The motion that all hungry people are "druggies and alcoholics" is just not true. I work in this area as a volunteer in Dublin and, unless Ennis is an oasis in the country, I can't see how it can be different. As for drug abusers and alcoholics, it's easy to condemn but every one I know has a horrendous background. Abuse, violence, abandonment etc. one heroin user described it as the only way to run way from memories. I wonder how many people go to church on a Sunday. Christianity is surely about looking after the poor, dispossessed, marginalised particularly when it is uncomfortable. I know nothing about Mr. Williams but if the soup kitchen isn't needed it will be empty and will close. If it is needed, he is vindicated. as to location, it's difficult to comment other than to say that no alternative locations seem to be put forward by the council or others other than a broad 'it doesn't suit here'. It really doesn't paint Clare in a good light

Lady Chatterton

Ennis Town Council have served a warning letter on Oliver Williams. If convicted in court of operating his unauthorised soup kitchen he could face up to six months in prison or a fine up to €12,697.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/soup-kitchen-boss-warned-he-faces-jail-over-planning-row-29560106.html

It's a shame that both parties don't seem to be interested in working together to find a more appropriate site which meets planning and all other regulations. I think there are wrongs on both sides, Williams obviously has rubbed everyone up the wrong way by parachuting in and opening up where he wanted. On the other side, it is apparent that some members of the council don't want a soup kitchen anywhere and will object no matter where it is.

As far as I know there are no other 'soup kitchens' in Ennis that are open to all. Clarecare offer a meal to the elderly, SVP do try to assist needy families and there is a hostel for homeless men. However, there is no place for someone to drop in for a hot meal if they're down on their luck.

dr.fuzzenstein

If he gets jail for opening a soup kitchen I renounce this country and will personally piss on the desk of whoever authorised that.

Clareman

MrsD007 wrote: »

As far as I know there are no other 'soup kitchens' in Ennis that are open to all. Clarecare offer a meal to the elderly, SVP do try to assist needy families and there is a hostel for homeless men. However, there is no place for someone to drop in for a hot meal if they're down on their luck.

I'm almost 100% positive that the Poor Clares give meals out, I know that the nuns used to when I was younger at where is now Temple Gate

Lady Chatterton

Clareman wrote: »

I'm almost 100% positive that the Poor Clares give meals out, I know that the nuns used to when I was younger at where is now Temple Gate

Are you sure about the Poor Clares giving out meals? I occasionally visit the Poor Clares chapel and I see people visiting the nuns or asking for prayers etc. but I've never heard anything about a soup kitchen.

The Sisters of Mercy used to have a convent where the Temple Gate is, they relocated to a smaller building (off Station Road) around 1990.

angelfire9

Clareman wrote: »

I'm almost 100% positive that the Poor Clares give meals out, I know that the nuns used to when I was younger at where is now Temple Gate

That was the sisters of mercy
The poor Clare's are an enclosed order

MyKeyG

Oh God this just gets worse and worse. Did people come on this page with the intention of just seeing what they wanted in other comments? I have never come across so many obtuse people in my life. I tell you what guys, come on down here whenever you want. You'll get to meet the guy from the Mens shelter that exposed himself to my neighbours while drunk even though drinking isn't permitted there. You can place a few bob on the Flannan's lads beating ten shades of s**t out of each other at lunch in our back yards. Park your car here over the weekend if you like but be ready to buy new tires come Monday, don't worry you can shop for them while you're shopping for new glass for your broken windows.

Nobody said all those on welfare were druggies and alcoholics, nobody said they judged those who were. Fuzzenstein you talk about pissing on things? Well the wino's that piss all over the Holy Family School that my father has to wash up every morning are the kind of people who will be using this place as well as the needy. If you feel so strongly why don't you open your own bloody kitchen and feed them?

You can hate us if ye want but ye're hypocritical keyboard warrior nonsense only strengthens the resolve of the residents of St Flannans terrace. We will not be intimidated and we will not live in fear of our children playing out their own back lane. None of us are against a soup kitchen but we deserve the right to be concerned about the element that a venture in such a secluded area will bring in.